ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Bit early I know, but interesting draw with Nadal possibly up against Verdasco / Shapovalov / Thiem to reach the semis.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/scores/current/rome/416/draws

Good to see Stan back! Though 33 yo I would like to see how far he can come back.

Tenez wrote:Good to see Stan back! Though 33 yo I would like to see how far he can come back.

Hate to say it, but I'm expecting him to lose the first match he plays.

Hehe, you can see the difference between Madrid and Rome draw...

I hope we get to see some decent tennis there at last...the crazy atmosphere is guaranteed though!

I have a feeling Nole will do well in Rome.

noleisthebest wrote:I have a feeling Nole will do well in Rome.

He cannot keep losing everywhere.  Or can he?  Could he somehow lose to Dolgo and maybe go unseeded to RG?  That would be so neat, but maybe that is a bridge too far.  

Chung not playing Rome, probably confirming he got injured somewhere in his match v Zverev as he had points for 4/1 but when downhill from there.

I have bought tickets for Friday but it isn't clear to me whether the tickets cover both day and evening sessions. Is there an easy way I can check?
I hope that some of the knowledgeable members here can help me out ...

Turron wrote:I have bought tickets for Friday but it isn't clear to me whether the tickets cover both day and evening sessions. Is there an easy way I can check?
I hope that some of the knowledgeable members here can help me out ...

Hint:  Why do you think they have both a day session and a night session?

More explicit:  No, a ticket will normally cover either a day session or a night session but not both (see here: https://ticketing.internazionalibnlditalia.com/en/ticket_process), so unless you somehow ended up buying two tickets, your ticket is only good for one of the sessions (you will need to figure out which one )

Turron wrote:I have bought tickets for Friday but it isn't clear to me whether the tickets cover both day and evening sessions. Is there an easy way I can check?
I hope that some of the knowledgeable members here can help me out ...

Turron, whichever session you get to see, have a fabulous time!

summerblues wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:I have a feeling Nole will do well in Rome.

He cannot keep losing everywhere.  Or can he?  Could he somehow lose to Dolgo and maybe go unseeded to RG?  That would be so neat, but maybe that is a bridge too far.  

You mean you want to see a Nole-Nadal in round one in RG?

That would work; hopefully Nole would rediscover his form for that one match.

I am being inspired by BB's hope to see Fed vs Nole in Rd 1 at Wimbledon.  If Andy is back for W, we could maybe have Fed vs Nole and Rafa vs Andy in Rd 1.

I watched a bit of Stan's match earlier today.  Shadow of his old self.  I do not know whether or not he will be able to return to top form, but certainly not for this year's RG.

Zverev Number 2 in the race now! His second consecutive clay court and 2nd TMS1000 on clay!

He is becoming a force on that surface.

Tenez wrote:Zverev Number 2 in the race now! His second consecutive clay court and 2nd TMS1000 on clay!

He is becoming a force on that surface.

He is no force in my opinion. He has only been able to avoid the ultimate force on clay.

We saw how he fared against the 'ultimate force' on clay a month ago. If they meet again, the result is going to be the same.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

Tenez wrote:Zverev Number 2 in the race now! His second consecutive clay court and 2nd TMS1000 on clay!

He is becoming a force on that surface.

He is no force in my opinion. He has only been able to avoid the ultimate force on clay.

We saw how he fared against the 'ultimate force' on clay a month ago. If they meet again, the result is going to be the same.

But you cannot ask a 20yo to have the same experience on clay than Nadal. Plus one has to learn how to play Nadal on clay. As I mentioned many times, no coach can teach you how to play and time Nadal's zippy ball. Only experience can help.

He also lost in MC v Nishikori earlier, doesn't mean he won't be able to beat him next time. He is constantly learning.

Djoko became better than nadal on clay and I guarantee you Zverev has all the ingredients to better Djokovic. However nowadays it takes more time for youngsters to catch up...but he is doing pretty well.

I am not convinced Zverev has all the ingredients to better Djokovic.
He is too tall and his movement will never be anywhere near as good as Nole's.

His groundstrokes are faster but they are very safe, much safer than Nole's at the same age.
That is why his game is so suffocatingly boring, nothing in it stands out as his own trademark.

In a way he is weaponless (no Nole's will or his brother's guts).

I see him as a smug formula player  similar to most WTA East European players: let's get fit and bash down the middle and well away from the lines ad nauseum.

There is a reason he has done so poorly in slams for someone who is ranked number three.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

Tenez wrote:Good to see Stan back! Though 33 yo I would like to see how far he can come back.

Hate to say it, but I'm expecting him to lose the first match he plays.

And Stan obliges.

noleisthebest wrote:

There is a reason he has done so poorly in slams for someone who is ranked number three.

I know that your point turns on far more than his statistics, but it's worth remembering that at the age of 21 and ranked #4 coming into Wimbledon 2003, there were plenty expressing similar exasperation about you-know-who, whose slam performance was not much better.  I don't believe for one moment that Zverev is one slam away from getting his stuff together leading inexorably to world dominance, but I also don't accept that the mismatch between his performance in slams and his success outside them is particularly worrying.  He'll win slams (plural) in his time.

noleisthebest wrote:I am not convinced Zverev has all the ingredients to better Djokovic.
He is too tall and his movement will never be anywhere near as good as Nole's.

But he will compensate by a better reach and much better ground shots. It doesn't mean he will win 10 slams or more cause it won't be down to him only....but he will become much better at the game. Remember tennis moves on.

His groundstrokes are faster but they are very safe, much safer than Nole's at the same age.
That is why his game is so suffocatingly boring, nothing in it stands out as his own trademark.

But that's already a huge advantage. Whether we like it or not. It brought nadal and Djokovic 28 slams between themselves.

In a way he is weaponless (no Nole's will or his brother's guts).

Still Thiem coudl not hit through him yesterday and Djoko lost to him last year in the Rome final even though Nole had a pretty easy run to teh final.

I see him as a smug formula player  similar to most WTA East European players: let's get fit and bash down the middle and well away from the lines ad nauseum.

Agree but unfortunately that's not what it going to make him lose slams....on the contrary, it might rattle his opponents on key points!

There is a reason he has done so poorly in slams for someone who is ranked number three.

The reasons at 20 might be no longer valid at 21 or 22.

he looks a very serious contender...as unfortunately, he is not bashing and taking as much risk as Shapo.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:I am not convinced Zverev has all the ingredients to better Djokovic.
He is too tall and his movement will never be anywhere near as good as Nole's.

But he will compensate by a better reach and much better ground shots. It doesn't mean he will win 10 slams or more cause it won't be down to him only....but he will become much better at the game. Remember tennis moves on.  

I am not convinced by either. If it was that simple, Delpo who is a much better player than Zverev would have won more slams.
Legs are everything in tennis, esp in this era.

Tenez wrote:

There is a reason he has done so poorly in slams for someone who is ranked number three.

The reasons at 20 might  be no longer valid at 21 or 22.
he looks a very serious contender...as unfortunately, he is not bashing and taking as much risk as Shapo.

Coric looked just as dangerous when he turned up with his version of Nole's game and where is he now?

barrystar wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:
There is a reason he has done so poorly in slams for someone who is ranked number three.

I know that your point turns on far more than his statistics, but it's worth remembering that at the age of 21 and ranked #4 coming into Wimbledon 2003, there were plenty expressing similar exasperation about you-know-who, whose slam performance was not much better.  I don't believe for one moment that Zverev is one slam away from getting his stuff together leading inexorably to world dominance, but I also don't accept that the mismatch between his performance in slams and his success outside them is particularly worrying.  He'll win slams (plural) in his time.

What makes you say that?

The only reason I can see him winning slams is lack of opposition, nothing else. I simply don't see anything in his tennis that gives him the edge over opponents.
He is neither the fittest nor the best shotmaker.

Because players who start compiling multiple Masters wins at a very young age nearly always pick up at least a slam or two.  For obvious reasons repeat wins at the tournament level below Slams when very young tends to be a very good predictor of slam success later on.  I'm not talking about players who pile up a few Masters Wins at their peak over a long career like Davykenko, I'm talking about players who have multiple successes when they are 21 and under.

I can't think of any exceptions to this - Rios was a couple of years older than Zverev when he started winning Masters.

barrystar wrote:Because players who start compiling multiple Masters wins at a very young age nearly always pick up at least a slam or two.  For obvious reasons repeat wins at the tournament level below Slams when very young tends to be a very good predictor of slam success later on.  I'm not talking about players who pile up a few Masters Wins at their peak over a long career like Davykenko, I'm talking about players who have multiple successes when they are 21 and under.

I can't think of any exceptions to this - Rios was a couple of years older than Zverev when he started winning Masters.

My point with Zverev is his height - 1.95m
He is simply too tall for his style of play which requires super stamina.
He may be successful at winning best of three, but in the best of 5 ballgame - he flaps like fish out of water after three sets.

There is a reason why very tall players don't do well in slams.

Dolgo disappointing again, giving DJoko a free ride.

noleisthebest wrote:

barrystar wrote:Because players who start compiling multiple Masters wins at a very young age nearly always pick up at least a slam or two.  For obvious reasons repeat wins at the tournament level below Slams when very young tends to be a very good predictor of slam success later on.  I'm not talking about players who pile up a few Masters Wins at their peak over a long career like Davykenko, I'm talking about players who have multiple successes when they are 21 and under.

I can't think of any exceptions to this - Rios was a couple of years older than Zverev when he started winning Masters.

My point with Zverev is his height - 1.95m
He is simply too tall for his style of play which requires super stamina.
He may be successful at winning best of three, but in the best of 5 ballgame - he flaps like fish out of water after three sets.

There is a reason why very tall players don't do well in slams.

Even taller. 1.98m!

noleisthebest wrote:

barrystar wrote:Because players who start compiling multiple Masters wins at a very young age nearly always pick up at least a slam or two.  For obvious reasons repeat wins at the tournament level below Slams when very young tends to be a very good predictor of slam success later on.  I'm not talking about players who pile up a few Masters Wins at their peak over a long career like Davykenko, I'm talking about players who have multiple successes when they are 21 and under.

I can't think of any exceptions to this - Rios was a couple of years older than Zverev when he started winning Masters.

My point with Zverev is his height - 1.95m
He is simply too tall for his style of play which requires super stamina.
He may be successful at winning best of three, but in the best of 5 ballgame - he flaps like fish out of water after three sets.

There is a reason why very tall players don't do well in slams.

Interesting as both points (by barry and you) are correct, so history won;t repeat itself on one of them:
- (Barry) Those who won multiple TMS young ended up winning multiple slams.
- (NITB) Those who are 1m95 or more have not won multiple slams.

Delpo won one and failed to win more....though strangely, mostly down to his wrist injury than his legs and size.

Sharapova vs Nadal, good fun!

Edmunds playing in front of about 400 people.

bogbrush wrote:Edmunds playing in front of about 400 people.

Italians have got better things to do than watch Edmund....

Bad start from Shapo who keeps making UEs, more importantly when he just needs to put the ball in court.

What’s pro tennis come to when the paid umpire can’t point to the correct mark he overruled in the first place...
I feel sorry for Shapo, looks very tense.

Shapo’s generously letting Berd off the hook with so many missed opportunities.
Ah well....

And all’s well that ends well!

Shapo’s BH bails him out.
His FH needs to be tidied up a bit esp the return.

will nadal do well in rome?

I have a bad feeling

nax, at least you have a feeling, the rest of us don't feel much for Nadal 

Guessing a QF/SF Nadal would happy with that too.

naxroy wrote:will nadal do well in rome?

I have a bad feeling

I agree with you. If he was tired in Madrid...he is likely to be tired here as well by the time he reaches 1/2F.

Let's see.

naxroy wrote:will nadal do well in rome?

I have a bad feeling

Me too.

summerblues wrote:

naxroy wrote:will nadal do well in rome?

I have a bad feeling

Me too.

Yeah, me too. I reckon he'll win it.

Tenez wrote:

naxroy wrote:will nadal do well in rome?

I have a bad feeling

I agree with you. If he was tired in Madrid...he is likely to be tired here as well by the time he reaches 1/2F.

Let's see.

I dont think he is tired

I just read that Shapo is the youngest player to break in top 30 since Gasquet in 2005.

He also commented on his slow start last night:

“ I just couldn't find my footing the first set. The clay is so different here.” 

Many excellent matches today.
My pick:

Fognini-Thiem

Can Fabio knock Thiem out in front of HIS crowd?

Fabio has risen to the occasion!
Including the big red flash emblazoned across his chest and a star on the hip outfit!

I can easily imagine him lift up his arm/fist and take off like Superman.

What a guy....

And just as I wrote this boring Thiem breaks.

I am shutting up!

But break again!

It seems to me that Rome has a thick layer of clay making it slow but also with a lower bounce. It may not benefit Nadal.

Fabio on clay is what Dustin Brown is on grass when they are both "in the zone".
Sublime.

Most pros never reach those heights in the name of "wins".

Atmosphere in Rome when Fabio is playing is second to none!!!!!

With every crazy points it looks like the whole stadium could take off into space!

Even the crowd cheering Thiem's DF doesn't sound bad...

Fabio can do anything....kick dust, kick his racquet, everything goes!

I loved it when it was the old court and people came in without tickets, sat on rails, stairs, everywhere, those were the days....

This really is a live opera!

With every miss - it's the end of the world!

Fabio berates his racquet, flaps his arms in the air looking at his box...how can such huge persona possibly switch from moment of ecstatic glory into a failure in one shot!

When he wins a point the crowd explodes like every person in the audience just found out they won lottery.

Thiem is there....as a nuisance, a baddie...

Fabio slides and falls onto clay...it's deuce on 2:3 Thiem serving...another miss and near fall by Fabio...he will do anything to win!

And here comes a magic volley!!!

And another deuce!

FA- BI-O FA- BI-O


And its vantaggio Fognini!!!!!!

He's Italian, what do you expect?

Ventaggio numero tre Fognini!

Is it now or never?


Mamma Mia, another parita!

Tre giocci pari!


Forza Fabiooooo!