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ATP Masters 1000: Rome

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by Tenez on Sun May 20, 2018 12:08 am

naxroy wrote:
Tenez wrote:My "theories" will be on the line tomorrow:

Nadal wins means:
He is not tired nor is likely to get tired. Unless we see some obvious signs while Djoko loses due to lack of composure.
It might take longer for Djoko to get to the top. I think he should be able to get back quickly if his elbow is ok. Doesn't mean he will dominate like before cause the youngsters are progressing quick.

If Djoko wins, it will confirm many of my points:
Average + Djoko is better than the best of Nadal on clay.
Nadal gets tired when extending rallies (don't think that news. It's a fact proven on many occasions).
Djoko can quickly return to the top...and federer (and me) should be worried.

I suspect it is going to be a close match...but Djoko has a good chance to win it.


great from both

I think nadal wont want nole in his quarter in paris

but nadal is in good form, lets see tomorrow

Yes I expected Djoko to do better. Had he won that very first game (he had 2 BPs) he could have played with more confidence instead of playing catch up. I still think Djoko is not 100% fit yet or 100% confident on his fitness. But I think it is fair to say that Djoko is back to some good level.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by Tenez on Sun May 20, 2018 12:10 am

Jahu wrote:This Zverev ain't doing it for me:

- Brings nothing new to court
- Nothing special in his shots
- Looks girly
- Zero charisma
- Bitches a lot, like just now on first point argues with umpire for a line shot
- Have a feeling these kids who come from Tennis families dad/moms, are artificially forced into Tennis, and will break down fast from pressure.
I thought you'd like that!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by Tenez on Sun May 20, 2018 12:17 am

summerblues wrote:
Jahu wrote:
summerblues wrote:
Turron wrote:Zverev exudes a sense of entitlement ... he thinks he should win because he is the chosen one. I'm not a fan ... he is powerful but his game is very limited and there isn't much to like.
His game is not attractive but I would give him better chance than anyone right now to beat Rafa - better than Thiem.

No way, Thiem can crush the ball 3 hours, Zverev is more of a wait for UE and hit only when safe and Nadal has problems with hard hitters, not with pushers.
Thiem needs to be very lucky to keep crushing the ball for 3 hours and not have them go mostly out.  Plus he does play with a SHBH.  Zverev has plenty enough firepower.  I still favor Rafa - obviously.  I doubt Zverev will be consistent enough nor am I sure he moves well enough - even though he moves quite well for his size.  Still, he serves well and can crush the ball off both wings either cross court of DTL.  Not sexy maybe, but that is the bread-and-butter anti-Nadal recipe.
More importantly, Zverev has now a good serve and will get free points and games....and against Nadal that is priceless.

I think Zverev has a good chance.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by Tenez on Sun May 20, 2018 12:22 am

summerblues wrote:...But from what I saw, they were both missing quite a lot.  It is not just returning with Nole - he just is nowhere near as consistent sending everything close to the lines as he used to be.  I saw him miss a few mundane DTL BHs.
Nadal is hotting the ball harder and deeper than in the past. Before Nadal was very rarely hurting Djoko from the BH wing, whereas today he forced Djoko to run more than before with that CC and DTL BH.

I felt this is where Djoko has to improve cause he is facing a better Rafa.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by summerblues on Sun May 20, 2018 1:18 am

Tenez wrote:
Jahu wrote:Looks girly
I thought you'd like that!
LOL

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by summerblues on Sun May 20, 2018 2:59 pm

Win or lose today, Zverev will take over as #1 in the Race.  If he can improve in GSs, he has a solid chance to finish the year at #1.  He would probably need a little help from Fed (show his age with some unexpected losses and lighter schedule) and Rafa (do not perfom too well on HCs), but it looks quite plausible.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by summerblues on Sun May 20, 2018 3:01 pm

Thiem, Wawrinka and Chung all playing next week.  I understand Wawrinka and Chung, but why Thiem?  Has he not played enough already this clay court season?  Or has he given up on RG and wants to collect small points (I hope not Yikes)?

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by summerblues on Sun May 20, 2018 3:20 pm

Nice start!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by summerblues on Sun May 20, 2018 3:24 pm

Sad

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by noleisthebest on Sun May 20, 2018 3:43 pm

Nadal exposing how limited Zverev is.
No different to Thiem or Rublev...no plan B, just whack it hard!

What does that say about the rest of the field that Zverev is 2nd in the race.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by summerblues on Sun May 20, 2018 3:46 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Zverev is 2nd in the race.
First after today.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by summerblues on Sun May 20, 2018 3:46 pm

Zverev broken every time - could not hold even from 40-0.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by noleisthebest on Sun May 20, 2018 3:48 pm

summerblues wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Zverev is 2nd in the race.
First after today.

Just proves that Nadal is hoarding his titles in weak era when his opposition is either resting or injured. Winking

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by summerblues on Sun May 20, 2018 3:51 pm

Started with Zverev breaking Rafa in the opening game.  Went downhill very quickly after that.

Zverev is going for too much.  He should dial the pace of his shots down just a little bit.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by noleisthebest on Sun May 20, 2018 3:53 pm

summerblues wrote:Started with Zverev breaking Rafa in the opening game.  Went downhill very quickly after that.

Zverev is going for too much.  He should dial the pace of his shots down just a little bit.

That"s called a plan B and his feet or hands are not quick enough for it.


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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by summerblues on Sun May 20, 2018 3:56 pm

Yay! Zverev holds. The worst this can end now is 6:1 6:1.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by noleisthebest on Sun May 20, 2018 3:57 pm

I was going to say he can come to the net, but he doesn't have the guts for it.
yet, he did and finally won his much praised serve after 8 games!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by noleisthebest on Sun May 20, 2018 3:59 pm

Zverev is trying to play the same game as Nole but he doesn't play any angles. Instead, he tries to compensate by hitting the ball as hard as possible, safely.
Nadal is too fast for that, hence the score.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by noleisthebest on Sun May 20, 2018 4:02 pm

At least Zverev is not smug and full of himself any more...

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by summerblues on Sun May 20, 2018 4:07 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Zverev is trying to play the same game as Nole but he doesn't play any angles. Instead, he tries to compensate by hitting the ball as hard as possible, safely.
Nadal is too fast for that, hence the score.
He cannot play quite the same game as Nole.  Nole can stay with Rafa in infinite rallies, Zverev cannot do that.  He needs to hit bigger shots than Nole does.  But he does not need to hit quite as big as he was trying in the 1st set.  I think he got frustrated that Rafa was chasing everything down and lost patience.

He certainly has hands to hit with less power.  In fact, he normally hits with less power.

You may be right though that he does not have legs that are needed - he does need to accept some rallies and that will be difficult for him.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by noleisthebest on Sun May 20, 2018 4:11 pm

Nadal finally starting to show signs of fatigue.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by summerblues on Sun May 20, 2018 4:14 pm

Good break. I was worried that 15-40 miss was going to be costly.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by summerblues on Sun May 20, 2018 4:18 pm

He had better take this set from here. smiley

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by noleisthebest on Sun May 20, 2018 4:24 pm

Zverev's volleying is at a beginner's level...amazing he's 1st in the race.
Tennis ain't the game it used to be any more....

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by summerblues on Sun May 20, 2018 4:27 pm

summerblues wrote:Yay!  Zverev holds.  The worst this can end now is 6:1 6:1.
6:1 in the second set too, but in much happier direction.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by noleisthebest on Sun May 20, 2018 4:28 pm

Cloudy sky, funeral music from the DJ...how appropriate...Laugh

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by summerblues on Sun May 20, 2018 4:29 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Zverev's volleying is at a beginner's level...amazing he's 1st in the race.
Tennis ain't the game it used to be any more....
Yes, his volleys are horrible. But Nole's volleys were just as bad when he reached #1 and then he worked to improve them a little. Zverev can do the same.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by noleisthebest on Sun May 20, 2018 4:32 pm

summerblues wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Zverev's volleying is at a beginner's level...amazing he's 1st in the race.
Tennis ain't the game it used to be any more....
Yes, his volleys are horrible.  But Nole's volleys were just as bad when he reached #1 and then he worked to improve them a little.  Zverev can do the same.

Yes, but volleys were not in vogue in Nole's time.
Besides, Zverev has both the serve and the span to cover the net...and the older brother who S&Vs to teach him.
His game should be al about trying to blast Nole away not copy him.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by noleisthebest on Sun May 20, 2018 4:33 pm

Wow, did I just see/hear Nadal smack his racquet....

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by noleisthebest on Sun May 20, 2018 4:34 pm

I must say the beast is fighting with all he has to win this.
Great play at the net. For once.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by noleisthebest on Sun May 20, 2018 4:35 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Cloudy sky, funeral music from the DJ...how appropriate...Laugh
And here comes the rain...

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by bogbrush on Sun May 20, 2018 4:39 pm

I always remenmber when the rain cane down at RG and Nadal lost something like 8 games in a row against Djokovic and was only rescued when it got suspended.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by noleisthebest on Sun May 20, 2018 4:41 pm

Nadal is meeting his match in dirty play in Zverev who interrupts Nadal's serve (on BP) by pointing to imaginary people moving behind him.

Hehe, I can't say I feel sorry for Nadal, but what an enjoyable contest in ugliness this has become!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by Tenez on Sun May 20, 2018 4:57 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Nadal finally starting to show signs of fatigue.
Told you. Though this rain break coudl save him!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by Tenez on Sun May 20, 2018 5:00 pm

bogbrush wrote:I always remenmber when the rain cane down at RG and Nadal lost something like 8 games in a row against Djokovic and was only rescued when it got suspended.

Again, how many times do I need to say that there is a lot of bluffing in Nadal's fitness. Don't get me wrong he is fit but if you keep rallying he is the one who will show signs of fatigue. Not much from his legs but from his arm.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by noleisthebest on Sun May 20, 2018 5:03 pm

Tenez wrote:
bogbrush wrote:I always remenmber when the rain cane down at RG and Nadal lost something like 8 games in a row against Djokovic and was only rescued when it got suspended.

Again, how many times do I need to say that there is a lot of bluffing in Nadal's fitness. Don't get me wrong he is fit but if you keep rallying he is the one who will show signs of fatigue. Not much from his legs but from his arm.
There was no signs of fatigue vs Nole yesterday.
This is more the knock on effect from yesterday's match. The age must be finally catching up with Nadal, as well in terms of recovery.

That will mean little in RG with days of rest.


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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by Tenez on Sun May 20, 2018 5:11 pm

This paralympics athlete has such beautiful eyes. Looks like she has been suffering a fire accident.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by bogbrush on Sun May 20, 2018 5:49 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Nadal is meeting his match in dirty play in Zverev who interrupts Nadal's serve (on BP) by pointing to imaginary people moving behind him.

Hehe, I can't say I feel sorry for Nadal, but what an enjoyable contest in ugliness this has become!
Nadal looked seriously hacked off when Zverev took ages to change his racquet while Nadal was waiting to serve.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by Tenez on Sun May 20, 2018 5:50 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:
bogbrush wrote:I always remenmber when the rain cane down at RG and Nadal lost something like 8 games in a row against Djokovic and was only rescued when it got suspended.

Again, how many times do I need to say that there is a lot of bluffing in Nadal's fitness. Don't get me wrong he is fit but if you keep rallying he is the one who will show signs of fatigue. Not much from his legs but from his arm.
There was no signs of fatigue vs Nole yesterday.
This is more the knock on effect from yesterday's match. The age must be finally catching up with Nadal, as well in terms of recovery.

That will mean little in RG with days of rest.

Of course there were signs of fatigue....just that Djoko got even more tired. Today was another obvious case. The rain break should help Nadal....if he keeps warm! This is why you saw him move during the break while Zverev was standing still in that corridor.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by summerblues on Sun May 20, 2018 5:54 pm

bogbrush wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Nadal is meeting his match in dirty play in Zverev who interrupts Nadal's serve (on BP) by pointing to imaginary people moving behind him.

Hehe, I can't say I feel sorry for Nadal, but what an enjoyable contest in ugliness this has become!
Nadal looked seriously hacked off when Zverev took ages to change his racquet while Nadal was waiting to serve.
You noticed too?  I loved it smiley

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by summerblues on Sun May 20, 2018 5:58 pm

1st game is important.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by summerblues on Sun May 20, 2018 6:03 pm

Sad

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by bogbrush on Sun May 20, 2018 6:07 pm

Looks like the break in play was decisive.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by summerblues on Sun May 20, 2018 6:14 pm

Not good Sad

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by summerblues on Sun May 20, 2018 6:21 pm

Rather disappointing finish.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by Tenez on Sun May 20, 2018 6:22 pm

Nadal was very lucky as we was saved by the rain break. You could he was getting tired again in that last serve. It just takes a few long rallies and he is gone.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by summerblues on Sun May 20, 2018 6:24 pm

So who can challenge Rafa at RG?  Zverev, Thiem maybe?  Goffin, Nishi or Nole?  At a stretch, if they are healthy, Delpo and Chung?  That is about it.  Anyone else would need a once-in-a-lifetime performance and still it would be tough.

Not looking promising at all Sad

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by summerblues on Sun May 20, 2018 6:25 pm

summerblues wrote:
naxroy wrote:will nadal do well in rome?

I have a bad feeling
Me too.
I was right and you were wrong.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by naxroy on Sun May 20, 2018 6:29 pm

the lord of clay was rescued by rain

eternal Nadal


So many years, so many times, so nice to see his tennis. The best ever on the surface.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

Post by summerblues on Sun May 20, 2018 6:31 pm

naxroy wrote:so nice to see his tennis
If you say so.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Rome

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