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Sharapova announces failed drug test

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:39 am

legendkillar wrote:
Veejay wrote:@LK im just wondering what you make of the absolutely ridiculous comment from tenez claiming that you have to be caught twice before you can be called an intentional doper 
and ignoring the fact that a top indian athlete failed a drugs test for meldonium,because that athlete doesnt count because he isnt a top athlete 
( i am literally peeing in my pants here Laugh Laugh Laugh  )


This got quite out of hand last night Winking

In terms of Ten's views, he is saying that the offence should also take into account the intention. You have to remember what makes the Sharapova case unique is that she failed on a drug which only recently was banned and in that instance I think, some would give her some slack. Complacency and neglect all the way. In terms of how Sharapova is classified in terms an intentional doper or not, end of the day she failed a drugs test and that is what is important here. Regardless of intent, the substance was banned and it was in her system.

As for traceability, for crying out loud all substances are traceable!! They have analysers and reagents that would trace any substance with the most minute presence left in the human body.
well thats really down to tenez getting upset because i made him look like a fool 
because he said no athlete has tested positive for meldonium since and i proved him wrong
instead of just admitting that he was wrong,he went on a barrage of insults like a child on tantrum party

but sharapovas case ISNT unique because there were at least 90 other athletes who failed a drugs test for meldonium
if she was the only athlete that tested positive for meldonium right after it was banned,that would be a unique solo case but her case isnt unique there were at least 90 others
are you really going to tell me that at least 90 other athletes werent informed and didnt get the memo/ or read the email too?
are you really going to expect me to believe that 90 other proffessional athletes had no intention to use a banned substance that they were caught for,that none of them could have gone online to find out f the drug they were taking was banned or not? theres no excuse for using a banned substance cause all you need to do is go online to find out if you arent sure 
the fact that 90 other athletes tested positive for meldonium tells me one thing,everyone now know thats they can be busted for it so whoever is potentially using the drug is taking as much precaution as possible or perhaps using a masking agent hence the reason there are far less positive cases since 
that is just using common sense and logic 
but what about tenzes point that you have to fail two drugs test to be an intentional doper,or that at an athlete who fails a drugs test and isnt a "TOP" athlete,simply doesnt count purely based on the fact that the athlete isnt a "TOP" athlete 
i have never heard anything so stupid before in my life!!
totally agree with the second highlighted part,so why the need to try and spin this to mkae her look innocent
shes guilty no matter how you look at it or spin it

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:50 am

legendkillar wrote:
As for traceability, for crying out loud all substances are traceable!! They have analysers and reagents that would trace any substance with the most minute presence left in the human body.
I m afraid but that's plain wrong....unfortunately.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:30 am

Tenez wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
As for traceability, for crying out loud all substances are traceable!! They have analysers and reagents that would trace any substance with the most minute presence left in the human body.
I m afraid but that's plain wrong....unfortunately.

Prove it. I will call you out on this and I want you to prove that!

Provide a list of banned substances which cannot be traced at all.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:52 am

No but i can give a list of 1000 top athletes which dope and get through the system. But more plainly even Wada recognises that they are behind the doping science. Thats why they want rewrite the record book.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:53 am

Tenez wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
As for traceability, for crying out loud all substances are traceable!! They have analysers and reagents that would trace any substance with the most minute presence left in the human body.
I m afraid but that's plain wrong....unfortunately.
so tenez,just to clarify
if serena willaims and rafael nadal were to fail a drugs test for meldonium or anything other banned substance they wouldnt be classified as an intentional doper,its only if they fail the drugs test for the second time that they would be guilty of doping? 
im still waiting for you to explain to me why sharapova never disclosed on a doping control form that she was using meldonium.why would she do that if she was using it as medicine for a condition and it was never her intention to a drug for its performance enhancing abilities
can you explain that to m please

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:58 am

@ LK you keep mentioning " intent" so lets talk about intention
it was maria sharapovas intention to withhold the fact that she was using meldonium
could you ask for any more proof that an athlete tried to hide the fact that they were using a drug as a PED? 
it was maria sharapovas intention to be deceptive 
does that not lead you to believe that it was her intent to cheat?
how can you believe otherwise when she lying in top of that too?

how many athletes over the years have been suspected of using steroids in relation to the amount that actually tested positive for steroids? 
just because no one is testing positive for meldonium  doesnt automatically mean that there are no pro athlete who are using it
it would ridiculous to assume that no pro athlete will ever use the drug ever again and thats is what tenez was claiming


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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:09 am

Vee, 

I used to think you were a bit of a dope expert.
I see you are selective now.

I can't remember who recommended this documentary here a few years ago, but it was a real eye-opener:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=StTbrbZl3nc

"The Race That Shook The World"

100m sprint in which Ben Johnson was "caught".

In the documentary made decades later i turns out that all 10 sprinters bar one (da Silva) were doped, their positive tests STILL in the lab.

In the documentary they all more or less admit it (except of course the worst and most siccessful doper of them all- Carl Lewis) even though the American lab guy says he tested positive.


How many times do I have to repeat professionsl sport is a big business and athletes who bring a lot of money are protected?

But blind can't see.

And there is little help there.

To me that is the most interesting in all of this. Just that stubborness.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:20 am

Veejay wrote:
Tenez wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
As for traceability, for crying out loud all substances are traceable!! They have analysers and reagents that would trace any substance with the most minute presence left in the human body.
I m afraid but that's plain wrong....unfortunately.
so tenez,just to clarify
if serena willaims and rafael nadal were to fail a drugs test for meldonium or anything other banned substance they wouldnt be classified as an intentional doper,its only if they fail the drugs test for the second time that they would be guilty of doping? 
You clearly do not want to understand. I hope that's the case cause the alternative is actually worse. There is no "IF". No top athlete will be caught with Melodium from now on. It's as simple as that cause it is easily traceable and the benfits are not worth it. Onlly one "Top athlete" got caught and we know why: Gross negligence. END OF STORY! excusable or not I don;t care.

im still waiting for you to explain to me why sharapova never disclosed on a doping control form that she was using meldonium.why would she do that if she was using it as medicine for a condition and it was never her intention to a drug for its performance enhancing abilities
can you explain that to m please
No I simply do not know why but I am sure there is a good reason cause whe woudl have never taken this drug knowing it was banned and easily traceable. The rest is irrelevant to me. What fascinates me is how bent and partial your views are.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:21 am

... wrote:Vee, 

I used to think you were a bit of a dope expert.
I see you are selective now.

I can't remember who recommended this documentary here a few years ago, but it was a real eye-opener:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=StTbrbZl3nc

"The Race That Shook The World"

100m sprint in which Ben Johnson was "caught".

In the documentary made decades later i turns out that all 10 sprinters bar one (da Silva) were doped, their positive tests STILL in the lab.

In the documentary they all more or less admit it (except of course the worst and most siccessful doper of them all- Carl Lewis) even though the American lab guy says he tested positive.


How many times do I have to repeat professionsl sport is a big business and athletes who bring a lot of money are protected?

But blind can't see.

And there is little help there.

To me that is the most interesting in all of this. Just that stubborness.
funny that you cant seem to admit the same about sharapova eh?
wasnt her ban reduced?
i know that documentary,i have seen it loads of times,they all turned out to be dopers
how many times have i told you that i believe that they are all using drugs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
how many times have i said that there is speculation floating around about all the top players? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so please explain to me how i am being selective?
you and tenez are really scraping the barrel here  
do you actually understand the meaning of the word double standard?

here tenez is saying that sharapova needed to fail the drug test for a second time to be a doper
so would he still think that if serena or rafela nadal failed a drugs test the first time,that they were not intentional dopers,it was just a case of neglect and it would only count if they failed a drugs test for the second time
i seriously doubt that!!
if you cannot see the double standard ( one rule for 1 athlete and another rule the other athlete) then theres no hope left for you

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:30 am

Tenez wrote:
Veejay wrote:
Tenez wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
As for traceability, for crying out loud all substances are traceable!! They have analysers and reagents that would trace any substance with the most minute presence left in the human body.
I m afraid but that's plain wrong....unfortunately.
so tenez,just to clarify
if serena willaims and rafael nadal were to fail a drugs test for meldonium or anything other banned substance they wouldnt be classified as an intentional doper,its only if they fail the drugs test for the second time that they would be guilty of doping? 
You clearly do not want to understand. I hope that's the case cause the alternative is actually worse. There is no "IF". No top athlete will be caught with Melodium from now on. It's as simple as that cause it is easily traceable and the benfits are not worth it. Onlly one "Top athlete" got caught and we know why: Gross negligence. END OF STORY! excusable or not I don;t care.

im still waiting for you to explain to me why sharapova never disclosed on a doping control form that she was using meldonium.why would she do that if she was using it as medicine for a condition and it was never her intention to a drug for its performance enhancing abilities
can you explain that to m please
No I simply do not know why but I am sure there is a good reason cause whe woudl have never taken this drug knowing it was banned and easily traceable. The rest is irrelevant to me. What fascinates me is how bent and partial your views are.
Laugh Laugh
if youre sure theres a good reason why arent you giving us the reason
youre the one saying youre "sure" 
youre so sure that you cant even give me a reason?
how do you know that theres a good reason if you cant even give one?
youre just assuming that there is a good reason to help your case,but you dont know that for a fact
the reason why sharapova never disclosed on a doping control form ( for 10 years!!)  is because she was being deceptive and didnt want anyone to know that she was using a drug which happened to be performance enhancing 
the drug is a banned substance so youre opinion on whether its a PED or not is completely worthless in this argument,its banned case closed!

you keep saying that the benefits are not worth it,a top indian athlete thought it was worth it to throw his career away on meldonium
so why is it entirely plausible that one athlete can do it but not another? where is the logic in that?
if i do something wrong,does that mean that youre not capable of doing the same wrong thing?
what about the other 90 so athletes who tested positive for meldonium too?
was it never their intention to cheat?
if you believe that can you prove it please


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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:35 am

Ok, 
if you know they are all dopers aren't you upset that only one of them got "caught"?

If you know their positive samples are being locked away (or even destroyed like in dr Fuentes' case), doesn't it upset you some have to pay the price and others don't?

Because if they are doing it on that high level, imagine what they are prepared to do to "nobodies" like you and I?

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:02 pm

... wrote:Ok, 
if you know they are all dopers aren't you upset that only one of them got "caught"?

If you know their positive samples are being locked away (or even destroyed like in dr Fuentes' case), doesn't it upset you some have to pay the price and others don't?

Because if they are doing it on that high level, imagine what they are prepared to do to "nobodies" like you and I?
ok so youre not going to call sharapova out then? i didnt think you would but yet im the one who is selective?
youre preaching to me posting links to youtube but yet you cannot call the person we are discussing out,the one who is actually guilty?
you still think this is because she is russian and that there was no intent on her side even though she lied and hid the fact that she was using the drug? it was all just gross neglect and an honest mistake 
you dont understand the point i was trying to make,tenez is saying that sharapova would have had to fail 2 drugs test to prove that it was her intention to cheat
but would the same principle apply to serena or rafael nadal?
would tenez also allow them 2 failed drugs test before it proves their intent?
i SERIOUSLY  doubt that,i think many who comment here would agree that they would think that it would only take 1 failed drugs test for tenez to believe that it proves serena or rafael nadals intent 
so why 1 rule for sharapova and another rule for serena and nadal? why does sharapova get a free pass on the first drugs test and serena and nadal dont? can you understand what i mean by double standard now?
is that really fair?
obviously not
but yet i am accused on being selective?
my point of view is that it would only take 1 failed drugs test to prove intention for ANY and EVERY athletes including serena williams,
if serena williams were to fail a drugs test for meldonium and try to lie her way out of it making some condition up that never even existed just to give her a reason why she was using the drug,i would call it absolute bullshit and i would lose all respect for her,there is simply no excuse for her not knowing that the drug was banned cause she could have easily gone online to find out,its her career on the line,she should have known better and there is no excuse whatsoever and i would accuse her of being an intentional  and 100 % certain drugs cheat.it would also only take 1 failed drugs test for me to think that
im going to post this 10 times so that is sinks into your thick head cause its doesnt seem to have any other time i did

1:if serena williams were to fail a drugs test for meldonium and try to lie her way out of it making some condition up that never even existed just to give her a reason why she was using the drug,i would call it absolute bullshit and i would lose all respect for her,there is simply no excuse for her not knowing that the drug was banned cause she could have easily gone online to find out,its her career on the line,she should have known better and there is no excuse whatsoever and i would accuse her of being an intentional  and 100 % certain drugs cheat.it would also only take 1 failed drugs test for me to think that
2:if serena williams were to fail a drugs test for meldonium and try to lie her way out of it making some condition up that never even existed just to give her a reason why she was using the drug,i would call it absolute bullshit and i would lose all respect for her,there is simply no excuse for her not knowing that the drug was banned cause she could have easily gone online to find out,its her career on the line,she should have known better and there is no excuse whatsoever and i would accuse her of being an intentional  and 100 % certain drugs cheat.it would also only take 1 failed drugs test for me to think that
3:if serena williams were to fail a drugs test for meldonium and try to lie her way out of it making some condition up that never even existed just to give her a reason why she was using the drug,i would call it absolute bullshit and i would lose all respect for her,there is simply no excuse for her not knowing that the drug was banned cause she could have easily gone online to find out,its her career on the line,she should have known better and there is no excuse whatsoever and i would accuse her of being an intentional  and 100 % certain drugs cheat.it would also only take 1 failed drugs test for me to think that
4:if serena williams were to fail a drugs test for meldonium and try to lie her way out of it making some condition up that never even existed just to give her a reason why she was using the drug,i would call it absolute bullshit and i would lose all respect for her,there is simply no excuse for her not knowing that the drug was banned cause she could have easily gone online to find out,its her career on the line,she should have known better and there is no excuse whatsoever and i would accuse her of being an intentional  and 100 % certain drugs cheat.it would also only take 1 failed drugs test for me to think that
5:if serena williams were to fail a drugs test for meldonium and try to lie her way out of it making some condition up that never even existed just to give her a reason why she was using the drug,i would call it absolute bullshit and i would lose all respect for her,there is simply no excuse for her not knowing that the drug was banned cause she could have easily gone online to find out,its her career on the line,she should have known better and there is no excuse whatsoever and i would accuse her of being an intentional  and 100 % certain drugs cheat.it would also only take 1 failed drugs test for me to think that
6:if serena williams were to fail a drugs test for meldonium and try to lie her way out of it making some condition up that never even existed just to give her a reason why she was using the drug,i would call it absolute bullshit and i would lose all respect for her,there is simply no excuse for her not knowing that the drug was banned cause she could have easily gone online to find out,its her career on the line,she should have known better and there is no excuse whatsoever and i would accuse her of being an intentional  and 100 % certain drugs cheat.it would also only take 1 failed drugs test for me to think that
7:if serena williams were to fail a drugs test for meldonium and try to lie her way out of it making some condition up that never even existed just to give her a reason why she was using the drug,i would call it absolute bullshit and i would lose all respect for her,there is simply no excuse for her not knowing that the drug was banned cause she could have easily gone online to find out,its her career on the line,she should have known better and there is no excuse whatsoever and i would accuse her of being an intentional  and 100 % certain drugs cheat.it would also only take 1 failed drugs test for me to think that
8:if serena williams were to fail a drugs test for meldonium and try to lie her way out of it making some condition up that never even existed just to give her a reason why she was using the drug,i would call it absolute bullshit and i would lose all respect for her,there is simply no excuse for her not knowing that the drug was banned cause she could have easily gone online to find out,its her career on the line,she should have known better and there is no excuse whatsoever and i would accuse her of being an intentional  and 100 % certain drugs cheat.it would also only take 1 failed drugs test for me to think that
9:if serena williams were to fail a drugs test for meldonium and try to lie her way out of it making some condition up that never even existed just to give her a reason why she was using the drug,i would call it absolute bullshit and i would lose all respect for her,there is simply no excuse for her not knowing that the drug was banned cause she could have easily gone online to find out,its her career on the line,she should have known better and there is no excuse whatsoever and i would accuse her of being an intentional  and 100 % certain drugs cheat.it would also only take 1 failed drugs test for me to think that
10:if serena williams were to fail a drugs test for meldonium and try to lie her way out of it making some condition up that never even existed just to give her a reason why she was using the drug,i would call it absolute bullshit and i would lose all respect for her,there is simply no excuse for her not knowing that the drug was banned cause she could have easily gone online to find out,its her career on the line,she should have known better and there is no excuse whatsoever and i would accuse her of being an intentional  and 100 % certain drugs cheat.it would also only take 1 failed drugs test for me to think that

has it sunk it yet or do i need to do it anther 10 times to prove my point?
but lets see you do the same for sharapova...

of course it upsets me if there are doping cases like the fuentes one where there was a massive cover up involving judges and politicians,but what can i do about that? theres nothing i can do about that,i cant even discuss the matter further,its completely out of my hands because we dont have any proof,we dont know for a fact who the athletes are cause no one is naming them for certain,and no one has been brought justice like sharapova has.there are no cases to discuss,no failed drugs test etc,if there were then we would naturally be discussing them
but there is a failed drugs test here and an athlete who lied her way out of it
i find it very strange not to mention very hypocritical that you can have a problem with the fuentes case and every other doper you suspect,but not have a problem with maria sharapova who lied her way out of failing a drugs test and hid the fact that she was using the drug on doping control form
now had this been rafael nadal or serena willaim who lied their way out of failing a drugs test or never disclosed the fact that they were using a drug on a doping control form,i think that we would never hear the end of it from you.but yet i havent once seen you accuse sharapova of this,instead you make an excuse up for her that this is because she is russian
and then you have the nerve to call me "selective" 
i am not uspet that sharapova got caught,what upsets me is that she lied her way out of it and that people like you and tenez refuse to admit that she deliberately tried to deceive everyone including the doping officials by not disclosing to them that she was using the drug for 10years!!!!!!
that is committing a doping crime for 10 years!!! and you dont seem to have a problem with that?
she also tried to deceive everyone by fabricating a condition that never even existed 
and you dont seem to have a problem with that either
but i am the one being made the villain here because i do have a problem with that

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:10 pm

Tenez wrote:No but i can give a list of 1000 top athletes which dope and get through the system. But more plainly even Wada recognises that they are behind the doping science. Thats why they want rewrite the record book.


But you do know that biomarker science has come on massively in the last 5 years? Your statement is saying they pass, but not that because the substance is untraceable. Could be they just aren't exceeding threshold levels which are different.

Have to say on separate note to the last part of your sentence, I don't agree with the retrospective action WADA have been taking from past games.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:27 pm

Veejay wrote:@ LK you keep mentioning " intent" so lets talk about intention
it was maria sharapovas intention to withhold the fact that she was using meldonium
could you ask for any more proof that an athlete tried to hide the fact that they were using a drug as a PED? 
it was maria sharapovas intention to be deceptive 
does that not lead you to believe that it was her intent to cheat?
how can you believe otherwise when she lying in top of that too?

how many athletes over the years have been suspected of using steroids in relation to the amount that actually tested positive for steroids? 
just because no one is testing positive for meldonium  doesnt automatically mean that there are no pro athlete who are using it
it would ridiculous to assume that no pro athlete will ever use the drug ever again and thats is what tenez was claiming


Look at the facts first and foremost.

Meldonium was banned in 2016. Up and until that point, Sharapova was well with in her legal right to use the drug up until that point. It's difficult to in my view to criticise someone who was well within their rights to use legal substances. She tested positive in Jan 2016. So literally a month into the drug being banned. That car crash of a press conference was in February IIRC? If you are going to judge the offence, you need to judge it on the legal merit. Hence 1 month of using it.

The aftermath has been around Sharapova's constant use of the substance prior to the banning of Meldonium. Where do you think the blame on that score (bear in mind it's legal) from a moral standpoint lie? Like I stated right at the beginning, why did it take WADA so long to ban this substance? Whether she has taken it since is anyone's guess. However with the outrage this is caused, if Meldonium was banned years ago and say Sharapova had it been taking it illegally, then yes I can imagine there would be more scorn to pour on this.

Athletes will always explore new ways of gaining that extra edge. I can't think who it was now, might have been a Cycling coach in the UK who a few years ago was trying to find out the threshold limits for banned substances because he was concerned with "sabotaging" of samples.

I am not advocating cheaters or anything like that. I simply look at circumstances. Baxter, Gasquet, Toure. Look at those cases. Cold stimulant, recreational drug and diuretic drug caused them 3 respectively to fail drug tests. Looking at it from a circumstantial perspective, do you believe their intentions were to increase their performances? Given that Gasquet and Toure had never touched the substances previously to which they tested positive for (so they have claimed) and Baxter had used previous cold stimulants but none had the substance he later tested positive for?

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:56 pm

legendkillar wrote:
Veejay wrote:@ LK you keep mentioning " intent" so lets talk about intention
it was maria sharapovas intention to withhold the fact that she was using meldonium
could you ask for any more proof that an athlete tried to hide the fact that they were using a drug as a PED? 
it was maria sharapovas intention to be deceptive 
does that not lead you to believe that it was her intent to cheat?
how can you believe otherwise when she lying in top of that too?

how many athletes over the years have been suspected of using steroids in relation to the amount that actually tested positive for steroids? 
just because no one is testing positive for meldonium  doesnt automatically mean that there are no pro athlete who are using it
it would ridiculous to assume that no pro athlete will ever use the drug ever again and thats is what tenez was claiming


Look at the facts first and foremost.

Meldonium was banned in 2016. Up and until that point, Sharapova was well with in her legal right to use the drug up until that point. It's difficult to in my view to criticise someone who was well within their rights to use legal substances. She tested positive in Jan 2016. So literally a month into the drug being banned. That car crash of a press conference was in February IIRC? If you are going to judge the offence, you need to judge it on the legal merit. Hence 1 month of using it.

The aftermath has been around Sharapova's constant use of the substance prior to the banning of Meldonium. Where do you think the blame on that score (bear in mind it's legal) from a moral standpoint lie? Like I stated right at the beginning, why did it take WADA so long to ban this substance? Whether she has taken it since is anyone's guess. However with the outrage this is caused, if Meldonium was banned years ago and say Sharapova had it been taking it illegally, then yes I can imagine there would be more scorn to pour on this.

Athletes will always explore new ways of gaining that extra edge. I can't think who it was now, might have been a Cycling coach in the UK who a few years ago was trying to find out the threshold limits for banned substances because he was concerned with "sabotaging" of samples.

I am not advocating cheaters or anything like that. I simply look at circumstances. Baxter, Gasquet, Toure. Look at those cases. Cold stimulant, recreational drug and diuretic drug caused them 3 respectively to fail drug tests. Looking at it from a circumstantial perspective, do you believe their intentions were to increase their performances? Given that Gasquet and Toure had never touched the substances previously to which they tested positive for (so they have claimed) and Baxter had used previous cold stimulants but none had the substance he later tested positive for?
she may have been well within her legal right to use the drug,no one is disputing that,she wasnt however well within her legal right to withhold the fact that she was using meldoium on a doping control from
that is very incriminating,especially in this case where shes claiming  to not have known that the drug was banned after testing positive for the drug
but we have been through this before,the drug was legal  so technically she wasnt doing anything wrong by using it,so there was no reason for her to lie and conjure up a condition that never existed 
the reason why she did is because she wanted to have a reason as to why she using meldonium for the last 10 years,that it was for medical purposes because she didnt want to admit to the fact that she was using the drug as a PED
that to me suggest or even more proves that the drug has performance enhancing abilities and that its entirely plausible that she intended to cheat because she was using the drug for that specific reason -as a PED
its pointless to question why the drug was banned recently cause that has nothing to do with anyone testing positive for the drug,as i said before there simply is no excuse for any athlete not knowing that the drug is banned cause all the info is readily available for anyone to read online any time they want
you know what i would do if i was a pro athlete,before taking any kind of drug or medication especially if the drug needed to be taken daily,i would then check every single before taking the drug just to be 100% certain,i would not just assume and presume because its my career on the line.besides wouldnt it feel good to be at ease knowing rather then stressing that you could have done something wrong? by deliberately not checking i can instead conveniently have a stupid excuse to say i didnt know..that to me is intent- deliberately not check,or even checking but then lying about it
you just have to accept the fact that it is a banned substance,whether it was banned yesterday or 10 years ago,its banned that is just the way things are,and anyone who tests positive for it failed a drugs tests therefore  from a legal point of view intended to cheat
besides,there was plenty of time ( at least a few months) given prior to banning the drug so that there wouldnt be a case of someone testing positive for the drug because they still happened to have it in their system 
cocaine may not be performance enhancing but if its on the banned drugs list then its a banned substance regardless
i dont believe in the argument of looking at the circumstance because breaking the rules is breaking the rules 
if the rules states that if you test positive for cocaine that you will serve a ban or suspension then thats what should happen even if cocaine isnt performance enhancing

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:05 pm

But we are talking 1 month well, less than if we are looking at the fact she was tested at the AO. Is it a big blatant lie or massive negligent oversight?

I agree with the logic on the other points, as an athlete I would want to know if the substances I took were still legal. I would assume other athletes would too. However, complacency can be common place in any profession and with medication, experience placebo effect set in.

A failed drugs test is a failed drugs test and every athlete who fails regardless of intent, should be banned. Zero tolerance all the way.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:08 pm

@NITB
see you posting but not on this thread...guess youre not going to hold sharapova accountable then?
funny how im holding serena accountable who hasnt even failed a drugs test but you can try to hold everyone else accountable except the one who did fail a drugs test 
i forgot to answer your question cause i read it incorrectly 
im not upset that people who i speculate are cheating havent been caught because im just speculating if i knew for a fact and had proof then thats an entirely different story,then i would be very upset if they were getting away with it
when you think that they are all guilty you cant be more upset by one person not being caught then another not getting caught,
i would however be very upset if they were caught and got away with it or didnt face the full wrath of their consequences 
but i do wonder why you were so upset that the russian were caught
i recall you saying that they are a very proud nation,making all kinds of excuses for them being banned from the olympics last year
why were you never happy that the cheating doping russians were caught?
if you were,your actions certainly suggested otherwise
i certainly was happy that some dopers were caught

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:19 pm

@tenez @ NITB @ LK
this is really interesting 
maria sharapova was warned at least 5 times in the month before failing a drugs test for meldonium that the drug was going to be banned
it amazes me that even after having been warned at least 5 times,that CAS ruled that not even was done to make her aware that the drug was being banned 
what the hell did they have to do to get the message through to her? 
tattoo that the drug was being banned on her forehead??!!!
anyone who actually believe the bullshit story and she somehow didnt know or missed 1 email when she was notified at least 4 other ways must feel like a real mug now..  Laugh Laugh
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2016/03/08/maria-sharapova-clouds-gather-over-tennis-star/

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:30 pm

The article states "she failed to check the correspondence"

Neglect all the way!

Article also highlighted failings in her medical. What is more interesting in that article is that it wasn't revealed if Sharapova had sought  an exemption and she could've applied for a backdated TUE! Doh Doh

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:34 pm

legendkillar wrote:But we are talking 1 month well, less than if we are looking at the fact she was tested at the AO. Is it a big blatant lie or massive negligent oversight?

I agree with the logic on the other points, as an athlete I would want to know if the substances I took were still legal. I would assume other athletes would too. However, complacency can be common place in any profession and with medication, experience placebo effect set in.

A failed drugs test is a failed drugs test and every athlete who fails regardless of intent, should be banned. Zero tolerance all the way.

thats very true,but it should never be used as an excuse
WADA announced september 2015 that meldonium was to be banned as of 1st january 216 thats  a warning given 3-4 months prior to the drug being banned 

wada said that they were uncertain how long the drug could stay in your system,but even those who claimed to have stopped using the drug but happened to test positive wouldnt automatically get amnesty,they still had to explain how the drug could still be in their system

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/36034369

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:00 pm

Veejay wrote:@NITB
see you posting but not on this thread...guess youre not going to hold sharapova accountable then?
funny how im holding serena accountable who hasnt even failed a drugs test but you can try to hold everyone else accountable except the one who did fail a drugs test 
i forgot to answer your question cause i read it incorrectly 
im not upset that people who i speculate are cheating havent been caught because im just speculating if i knew for a fact and had proof then thats an entirely different story,then i would be very upset if they were getting away with it
when you think that they are all guilty you cant be more upset by one person not being caught then another not getting caught,
i would however be very upset if they were caught and got away with it or didnt face the full wrath of their consequences 
but i do wonder why you were so upset that the russian were caught
i recall you saying that they are a very proud nation,making all kinds of excuses for them being banned from the olympics last year
why were you never happy that the cheating doping russians were caught?
if you were,your actions certainly suggested otherwise
i certainly was happy that some dopers were caught

Vee,

sorry, I don't have time to read your novels lemgth replies. I like poetic simplicity. smiley

Af far as I can see it, you are blinded by your dislike of Sharapova and are not able to understand my posts, because if you did you wouldn't be asking me the same question over and over again.

Not the end of the world.

Let's hope all the other dopers get caught like her, even though we know they won't...simply because of politics.


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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:04 pm

legendkillar wrote:The article states "she failed to check the correspondence"

Neglect all the way!

Article also highlighted failings in her medical. What is more interesting in that article is that it wasn't revealed if Sharapova had sought  an exemption and she could've applied for a backdated TUE! Doh Doh
i said that many times before,why didnt she get a TUE for te drug,she had a condition??
lol 
i think that her team would have considered that option but how would she have gotten one if she didnt have a condition
the whole question of why sharapova didnt get a TUE suggest quite a bit about TUE's to me
they probably arent as easy to get as some people pointing fingers in a doping sort of way think that they are
i mean sharapova is the highest paid female athlete in the world,that comes with a lot of power backing you behind the scenes
there must have been many powerful people in sport that could have  had some kind of influence in getting a TUE for her 
they really were stupid how they handled the whole thing,she should have just shut her big mouth and all of this would have most likely been dealt with quietly 

heres something else really surprising in this article
sharapova has failed a drugs test for meldonium before at 3 different tournaments in 2015 at wimbledon,WTA finals and he fed cup
now i dont know how she could have failed a drugs test for a drug that was legal,but that in itself alerts me to the fact that she knew that she was taking a drug that would be as tenez says " easily traceable"  but still took the drug anyway,is that not intent? i dont know about you but if i failed a drugs test for a drug that was still legal,that would be a major red flag to me i would stop taking the drug immediately because i wouldnt want to fail any drugs test,even if the drug was legal and i wasnt doing anything wrong
i would be thinking that if the failed drugs test were somehow to become public,the damage could be irreparable,even if it was for a legal substance.all people will remember is that you failed a drugs test not that the drug was legal
but im guessing that she knew that she got away with it before so why wouldnt she think that she can get away with it again?
the interesthing part in this article is that it seems that i could have been wrong,its reporting that  between october 2014 and january 2016 she signed 7 forms that didnt once disclose that she was taking meldronite 

whatever excuse she came up with the trubunal ruled that her argument was "untenable" 

It stated: “The facts are only consistent with a deliberate decision to keep secret from the anti-doping authorities the fact that she was using Mildronate in competition.”
It added: “She has no excuse for failing to disclose her use of Mildronate or to seek advice from a specialist doctor as to whether its continued use in competition was permissible.”
funny that,i keep saying that
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/tennis/maria-sharapova-two-year-drug-ban-meldonium-story-doesnt-add-up-a7071881.html

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:11 pm

... wrote:
Veejay wrote:@NITB
see you posting but not on this thread...guess youre not going to hold sharapova accountable then?
funny how im holding serena accountable who hasnt even failed a drugs test but you can try to hold everyone else accountable except the one who did fail a drugs test 
i forgot to answer your question cause i read it incorrectly 
im not upset that people who i speculate are cheating havent been caught because im just speculating if i knew for a fact and had proof then thats an entirely different story,then i would be very upset if they were getting away with it
when you think that they are all guilty you cant be more upset by one person not being caught then another not getting caught,
i would however be very upset if they were caught and got away with it or didnt face the full wrath of their consequences 
but i do wonder why you were so upset that the russian were caught
i recall you saying that they are a very proud nation,making all kinds of excuses for them being banned from the olympics last year
why were you never happy that the cheating doping russians were caught?
if you were,your actions certainly suggested otherwise
i certainly was happy that some dopers were caught

Vee,

sorry, I don't have time to read your novels lemgth replies. I like poetic simplicity. smiley

Af far as I can see it, you are blinded by your dislike of Sharapova and are not able to understand my posts, because if you did you wouldn't be asking me the same question over and over again.

Not the end of the world.

Let's hope all the other dopers get caught like her, even though we know they won't...simply because of politics.

thats bullshit,you read everything on this forum...i know that because you comment everywhere and sometimes delete the comments afterwards 
everyone who posts here keeps their eyes on whats written and said here so i dont know why youre lying 
you will definitely reply when you can dispute something,but will mostly choose to avoid commenting or answering questions when youre backed in a  corner 
but just so you know,the day that serena fails a drugs test i will say that its because shes black,just so that you can finally understand how completely and utterly ridiculous your stance about this all being political,and anti-russian is

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:30 pm

@LK
Here's something else that I just discovered that's really interesting reading the article in the Independent
Sharapova claims that she took Mildronite before every match at the AO then she goes in to say that she thought that she only had to declare those items she was taking every day in the last 7 days
She made it to the quarterfinals at the AO the second week so she never disclosed that she took the drug during the first week of the AO,i.e the last 7 days even if you were taking the drug every other day wouldn't you list it if you still thought that the drug was still legal and that you were doing wrong by taking it?
After 10+ years on tour and at least several years of having to fill doping control forms out she still didn't know what she had to fill in?? What an excuse!! Who can buy that??!!


The tribunal concluded that, whatever her position may have been in 2006, “there was in 2016 no diagnosis and no therapeutic advice supporting the continuing use of Mildronate. If she had believed that there was a continuing medical need to use Mildronate then she would have consulted a medical practitioner. The manner of its use, on match days and when undertaking intensive training, is only consistent with an intention to boost her energy levels.
“It may be that she genuinely believed that Mildronate had some general beneficial effect on her health, but the manner in which the medication was taken, its concealment from the anti-doping authorities, her failure to disclose it even to her own team, and the lack of any medical justification must inevitably lead to the conclusion that she took Mildronate for the purpose of enhancing her performance.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/tennis/maria-sharapova-two-year-drug-ban-meldonium-story-doesnt-add-up-a7071881.html

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:07 pm

sharapova out of wimbledon due to muscle tear
a scan showed a muscle injury she suffered from in rome will prevent her from competing during the grass season and trying to qualify for wimbledon 
thats a shame,it would have been interesting to see if either wimbledon gave her a wild card or if she managed to qualify in her own right
guess that we will never know now
she was given a wild card for the birmingham event

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by DECIMA on Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:43 pm

Tenez wrote:
In fact Vee and daniel can only be right if she gets caught again. Cause according to them she is really thick and apparently can get away with murder cause she is a top athlete. Therefore if they are right we shoudl find out very quickly as clearly she will take the drug again!
To be fair to Tenez, I'm sure he'd be as lenient and wanting a second guilty verdict if this was a player he doesn't like. Innocent until proven guilty twice if you're a good looking female who needed a drug which had been proven to help dogs with diabetes.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:26 pm

DECIMA wrote:
Tenez wrote:
In fact Vee and daniel can only be right if she gets caught again. Cause according to them she is really thick and apparently can get away with murder cause she is a top athlete. Therefore if they are right we shoudl find out very quickly as clearly she will take the drug again!
To be fair to Tenez, I'm sure he'd be as lenient and wanting a second guilty verdict if this was a player he doesn't like. Innocent until proven guilty twice if you're a good looking female who needed a drug which had been proven to help dogs with diabetes.
are you trying to say something amri?  Big Grin

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by DECIMA on Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:14 pm

Veejay wrote:
DECIMA wrote:
Tenez wrote:
In fact Vee and daniel can only be right if she gets caught again. Cause according to them she is really thick and apparently can get away with murder cause she is a top athlete. Therefore if they are right we shoudl find out very quickly as clearly she will take the drug again!
To be fair to Tenez, I'm sure he'd be as lenient and wanting a second guilty verdict if this was a player he doesn't like. Innocent until proven guilty twice if you're a good looking female who needed a drug which had been proven to help dogs with diabetes.
are you trying to say something amri?  Big Grin
The bit in bold is a reference to the fact the drug Sharapova took. Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:25 pm

all the more hilarious dont you think..oh the irony of it all..!! 
and heres me thinking that shes a sour puss... Laugh

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by DECIMA on Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:30 pm

Laugh

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:00 pm

DECIMA wrote:
Tenez wrote:
In fact Vee and daniel can only be right if she gets caught again. Cause according to them she is really thick and apparently can get away with murder cause she is a top athlete. Therefore if they are right we shoudl find out very quickly as clearly she will take the drug again!
To be fair to Tenez, I'm sure he'd be as lenient and wanting a second guilty verdict if this was a player he doesn't like. Innocent until proven guilty twice if you're a good looking female who needed a drug which had been proven to help dogs with diabetes.
I don;t like Sharapova. But she behaved exemplary well on that doping occasion.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by DECIMA on Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:09 pm

Ok ok I'll take the bait.

Question 1:
In your opinion, was Sharapova's excuse for taking the drug truthful?

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:16 pm

question 2
would you call lying her way out of failing a drugs test and with holding the fact that she was using the drug in a very deceitful way "behaving exemplary well" ?

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by DECIMA on Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:17 pm

Question 3
If this was Rafa Nadal how many milliseconds would you have taken to declare him guilty and a disgrace to the sport- 2 or 3?

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:17 pm

DECIMA wrote:Ok ok I'll take the bait.

Question 1:
In your opinion, was Sharapova's excuse for taking the drug truthful?
maybe not. But that's irrelevant to me as she took the drug thinking it was still a legal drug. And I do think this drug helps recover like Ibu does. Ultimately, I think both ibu and melodium (or whatever she took) should be banned.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by DECIMA on Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:18 pm

Tenez wrote:
DECIMA wrote:Ok ok I'll take the bait.

Question 1:
In your opinion, was Sharapova's excuse for taking the drug truthful?
maybe not.
Maybe not? In your judgement, do you think it's likely she was telling the truth about taking the drug as a preventer for future diabetes?

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:23 pm

DECIMA wrote:Question 3
If this was Rafa Nadal how many milliseconds would you have taken to declare him guilty and a disgrace to the sport- 2 or 3?
Same thing. before this story, Shara and Rafa were like Tweedledum and Tweedledee. My point remains is that rafa (or any other top athlete) woudl not have been stupid enough to take a drug easily detectable....twice during a tournament.

the difference is maybe that rafa's team has enough power to make a drug illegal (PRP), legal......unlike Shara!

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:25 pm

Tenez wrote:
DECIMA wrote:Question 3
If this was Rafa Nadal how many milliseconds would you have taken to declare him guilty and a disgrace to the sport- 2 or 3?
Same thing. before this story,  Shara and Rafa were like Tweedledum and Tweedledee. My point remains is that rafa (or any other top athlete) woudl not have been stupid enough to take a drug easily detectable....twice during a tournament.

the difference is maybe that rafa's team has enough power to make a drug illegal (PRP), legal......unlike Shara!
but somehow not for the highest paid female in sport? not just tennis,all sport!?

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Slippy on Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:16 pm

Disappointing that the US Open has given her a wildcard.  Would have been good if the slams had given a consistent message that main draw wild cards aren't given out to players returning from drugs bans.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:24 pm

Slippy wrote:Disappointing that the US Open has given her a wildcard.  Would have been good if the slams had given a consistent message that main draw wild cards aren't given out to players returning from drugs bans.
Good decision in my opinion as she is not a cheat as concluded by the indépendant tribunal.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Daniel on Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:33 pm

She is a cheat. She was banned. We've already been over all this - you're wrong.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:51 pm

Daniel wrote:She is a cheat. She was banned. We've already been over all this - you're wrong.
You consider her a cheat brcause she was "caught", served punishment.

And you don't consider anyone except Cilic and Troicki cheats on ATP tour, as they are also the only ones "with proof".

By your logic Tony Blair, G.W. Bush etc are all not cheats/guilty of destroying millions of homes and lives acround the world.

'Cos I haven't seen them tried in the Hague....

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:53 pm

Slippy wrote:Disappointing that the US Open has given her a wildcard.  Would have been good if the slams had given a consistent message that main draw wild cards aren't given out to players returning from drugs bans.


Well it was always going to happen at some point. Can't really keep up with the exiling forever. I think given the lack of star power (home favourite Serena not participating) they need something to elevate the event. Say what you will of Sharapova, she is still a big draw in the sports circuit.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Daniel on Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:21 pm

With people like tenez and NITB defending her cause she has good looks and a vagina... is it any wonder they're all laughing?

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Jahu on Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:53 pm

I come purely for Tennis here, and then I find a word vagina, so I would still fertilize her with lights off, just to see how a drugged girl feels in bed  Laugh

She even ruined Dimi for 2y. She should be banned for life. she can play on Russia.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:45 pm

McEnroe on Sharapova:

"Her suspension ... was a lot harsher than almost any other suspension that I've been aware of in any other sports. If (NFL players) get caught red-handed taking steroids, they're suspended for four games the first time."

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:03 pm

Ah at last.... Good to hear from McEnroe. What some of us have been saying. And I am sure being Russian did not help.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:21 am

Tenez wrote:Ah at last.... Good to hear from McEnroe. What some of us have been saying. And I am sure being Russian did not help.
Did you see she drew Halep in R1?

"They" kill two flies with one stone...both Sharapova and through Halep - Nastase.

With the exception of Ostapenko, I will now be cheering for Sharapova or Halep to win this USO.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Daniel on Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:56 pm

I prefer what numerous other players said... who called for a much harsher ban.  But, sure, cling to Maccy.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:25 pm


Tenez

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

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