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ATP Masters 1000: Indian Wells

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Post by truffin1 on Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:19 am

Too bad Nadals "decline" acts as a protection for his fans precious h2h''s. Since his same age Djoko and nearly 34 year old Federer are better than he is and are at the end of nearly every tourby, nadals early exits deny them the chance to get some wins against him.

No doubt though, he will find his game on clay when he can defeat them, and get some matches in against his rivals then.

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Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:19 am

you just have a typical Nadal fan mentality..he is loses he has an excuse.

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Post by luvsports! on Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:26 am

Yes definitely but instead of hitting that fhdl he went crosscourt as his confidence wasn;t there. I have said how gutsy rao played but I think he was aided by an off colour rafa.

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Post by luvsports! on Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:29 am

What of Feds losses this year Ten? What were his excuses?
I just feel it's a tad hypocritical.

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Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:30 am

luvsports! wrote:Yes definitely but instead of hitting that fhdl he went crosscourt as his confidence wasn;t there. I have said how gutsy rao played but I think he was aided by an off colour rafa.

I think like often versus big hitters, when the conds slow down (cooler temps) they have an easier ball to time versus rafa and can cut on UEs and yet have enough power to hit through the slower conds.

Nadal will also suffer from not taking the 40s as he used to....that certainly will affect his stamina as he uses lots of energy on every shot.

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Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:33 am

luvsports! wrote:What of Feds losses this year Ten? What were his excuses?
I just feel it's a tad hypocritical.
Fed proves yet again that on form he is better than almost anybody. That is all I can say. I don;t know many player who can beat Fed's A game....do you? Whereas I can certainly think of 10 players who on teh day can beat Nadal's A game.

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Post by luvsports! on Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:40 am

I agree but everyone has off day's do they not?

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Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:42 am

Looks like NITB dozed off during the match....it's the Nadal effect...though I m sure Rao didn't help.

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Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:44 am

luvsports! wrote:I agree but everyone has off day's do they not?
No!

Hehe of course....I don't think Nadal's game was off today though...if anything he impresed me once again in those first 2 sets and could have won in easy straight sets. So talking about "decline" is a bit premature.

Again we are underestimaing the effort of 1000s pro players constantly trying to improve every aspect of their games to earn a lifetime lottery jackpot!

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Post by truffin1 on Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:13 am


Bagels served against Top 10 opponents
Roger Federer - 26
Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, Ferrer, Wawrinka, Berdych combined - 26

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:13 am

Tenez wrote:Looks like NITB dozed off during the match....it's the Nadal effect...though I m sure Rao didn't help.
How did you guess!
Only woke up briefly when the match was already finished, saw the score and continued the sweet dreams smiley

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Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:21 am

truffin1 wrote:
Bagels served against Top 10 opponents
Roger Federer - 26
Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, Ferrer, Wawrinka, Berdych combined - 26
wow...nice stat.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:21 am

luvsports! wrote:Well when Rafa is on he can hit that fhdl all day long. He couldn't do that today in the second half of the match. That could be down to confidence.

Not the confidence, just the sheer  power/speed of Raonic's ball he had to chase and hit back from far behind the baseline.
That is very physically taxing even for him, plus the continuing pressure of playing a tough server who edged him in the long TB.
At one stage camera was showing Nadal hitting his balls from his normal 4m behind the baseline position, it was even more extraordinary to see how he does it from that angle, thinking the ball was going out, but then just landing in with high bounce due to his crazy spin.

Anyway, this is what he said after the match:

"I was tired? I was not tired. I had more opportunities than him in the first, in the second, and in the third, too. That’s the real thing about what happened during the match. The real thing is I am happy the way I played. I am happy the way that I stayed in a level during the whole match. I am not happy that I lost. That’s it."

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Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:24 am

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:Looks like NITB dozed off during the match....it's the Nadal effect...though I m sure Rao didn't help.
How did you guess!
Only woke up briefly when the match was already finished, saw the score and continued the sweet dreams smiley
Not celebrating a Nadal loss is a good clue I'd say.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:31 am

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:Looks like NITB dozed off during the match....it's the Nadal effect...though I m sure Rao didn't help.
How did you guess!
Only woke up briefly when the match was already finished, saw the score and continued the sweet dreams smiley
Not celebrating a Nadal loss is a good clue I'd say.
What do you mean?

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:33 am

Nadal on Raonic's chances against Federer:

"I saw Roger playing very well today. The difference on that match is even if I only lost one serve during the whole match and didn't have a lot of opportunities to have, he didn't have a lot of opportunities to have break on my serve.

Bigger difference with Roger, especially in that surface, is he has a great serve, too. The opponent feels that. Milos felt that can attack sometimes with my serve. Against Roger, he probably will not have that chance, because Roger is serving well. The feeling, comparing the two players, is Roger probably will have the same chances of returning serve than Milos."

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Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:58 am

I think it's going to be tough for Fed this evening. He'll probably return better than Nadal this evening but Nadal had the advantage of sending a very hard ball, extremely hard to time on tough conds which brought him many free points (UEs). Fed on the other hand sends a rushing ball but certainly easier to whack as more like all the other players on tour.

fed won't get to the ball as easily as Nadal, essentially cause fed can't afford to stand back and run the extra mile. Fed serves better but again, Nadal served well enough for most of the match.....only struggled at the very end. Whereas Fed can have a bad seve anytime.

Again if Fed is on form he will win...if not.....it could be 2 straight sets, 2 TBs even. Rao is getting tougher...and Fed has often had very close shaves Rao.

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Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:59 am

noleisthebest wrote:Nadal on Raonic's chances against Federer:

"I saw Roger playing very well today. The difference on that match is even if I only lost one serve during the whole match and didn't have a lot of opportunities to have, he didn't have a lot of opportunities to have break on my serve.

Bigger difference with Roger, especially in that surface, is he has a great serve, too. The opponent feels that. Milos felt that can attack sometimes with my serve. Against Roger, he probably will not have that chance, because Roger is serving well. The feeling, comparing the two players, is Roger probably will have the same chances of returning serve than Milos."
Funny I say that more or less in my post too.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:20 am

Tenez wrote:I think it's going to  be tough for Fed this evening. He'll probably return better than Nadal this evening but Nadal had the advantage of sending a very hard ball, extremely hard to time on tough conds which brought him many free points (UEs). Fed on the other hand sends a rushing ball but certainly easier to whack as more like all the other players on tour.

fed won't get to the ball as easily as Nadal, essentially cause fed can't afford to stand back and run the extra mile. Fed serves better but again, Nadal served well enough for most of the match.....only struggled at the very end. Whereas Fed can have a bad seve anytime.

Again if Fed is on form he will win...if not.....it could be 2 straight sets, 2 TBs even. Rao is getting tougher...and Fed has often had very close shaves Rao.  

If Fed is fine, he'll simply do as he did in Wimbledon SF.

Raonic's footwork is just not good enough for Fed, plus, he is a very safe player who'd rather hit 5 inside out FHs in a row from his BH corner (and often miss) than one simple inside in one down the line.

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Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:31 am

Well lots of very close matches between those 2...fed mental strength made obviously the difference....but Rao is getting better. I have been saying it for a long while...

Meanwhile, Nadal, 28, took positives from the defeat. He said: "I was able to be very focused, playing with positive energy for three hours, so that's great news for me, because that's the way I competed during all of my career."

And I agree with it. Nadal played very well in the first 2 sets....Rao pretty poor compared to his standard...50UEs is a lot for 2 sets....but then the trend slightly reversed in that 3rd set and that was enough.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:39 am

Yes, he is getting better, I thought he played well in his previous tournament (Dubai?), but in IW his footwork was exposed again, just too clumsy for the fine little steps which often cause him to panic and miss.
He played some great shots last night, I feel he is better when he doesn't muscle the ball so much and just plays the game fluidly, but he does it so rarely as he is not relaxed.
I don't know if more winning would change that as he does have limitations with his movement and it's hard to assess how much he can compensate that with the serve, which is also good, but not brilliant, it lacks variety compared to Fed's and relaxedness compared to Karlovic's, he hits his serve flat and doesn't use the kick like Isner, so still room for improvement even there.

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Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:59 am

noleisthebest wrote:Yes, he is getting better, I thought he played well in his previous tournament (Dubai?), but in IW his footwork was exposed again, just too clumsy for the fine little steps which often cause him to panic and miss.
He played some great shots last night, I feel he is better when he doesn't muscle the ball so much and just plays the game fluidly, but he does it so rarely as he is not relaxed.
I don't know if more winning would change that as he does have limitations with his movement and it's hard to assess how much he can compensate that with the serve, which is also good, but not brilliant, it lacks variety compared to Fed's and relaxedness compared to Karlovic's, he hits his serve flat and doesn't use the kick like Isner, so still room for improvement even there.
It's always a thin line with Nadal. Many make the mistake to try to hit through whereas placing the ball, more margins, can give a better opportunity the next shot. However too much margin and you are doomed to do the running instead of him.

To me the key yesterday what the slower conds, more controllable ball in the cooler conds with the sun dropping. Nadal's main strength is Nadal's spin and difficult to hit winners of them....when that goes, he becomes an much easier prey.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:32 pm

I was talking more in general than last night's match.
Yes, Nadal's bouncy, spinny ball is bound to require at least another extra step.
I only experience spinny balls when playing doubles against men and I hate it esp if it comes in the form of a body serve.

Would you say that's the same feel/effect with Nadal's FH?
You can see even with naked eye how much the trajectory changes in the air, doesn't have the normal, linear path.

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Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:48 pm

Yes this prevents a player to have a full hard swing at Nadal's shots cause even himself doesn't know how much spin he hits into it . So the opponent is forced to play a controlled shots, with much less pace or pull an UE.

I don;t think many have grasped how the cooler temps in that 3rd set really allowed Raonic to cut down on UEs.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:56 pm

I didn't see the third set but I saw it in other matches this week, the ball was really wild in the sun, it ruined tennis as many struggled to time it.
There were  some wild FHs.


It will be intersting to see how it affects today's matches.

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Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:59 pm


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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:10 pm

Fed seems to be happy with his tennis (who would't in his place?), shame Nadal wasn't able to meet him in the semi.
Definitely the favourite for the title now.

Not sure how Nole-Murray will go as Nole has a small foot injury.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:19 pm

After saying I was. It going to watch tennis anymore, I'm back with a vengeance!
In front of me a little feast of olives, baguette with spicy tomato relish, cheese and nice chilled rose!  chef

I feel like a child a toy shop Somersault

Let the games begin diva

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:30 pm

At last commentators coming up with stg interesting: Godall says Nole was not fully commited in Wimbledon final when Murray beat him, saying how hot it was etc.
He also said he talked to Murray after the match and Murray told him he was exhausted after the first 20 minutes he didn't know how he was going to finish the match.
Just a little insight to those who aren't aware of current levels of physicality.

I can only add that last year's RG final was three times as bad in every way. No wonder Nole was sick during the match.
Tennis is a cruel sport these days.

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Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:31 pm

yep and good start for your man......i'd like a very close match!

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:34 pm

Murray to Kim before the match:
Does my bum look big in these shorts?

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:35 pm

Murray belting the ball like there's not tomorrow...he's not going to last very long like that.
Nole is so much more energy efficient than him!

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:37 pm

Nole's got some decent support in IW, it means so much to him.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:39 pm

Nole looking pretty good, best I've seen him in a while, taking the ball early, pressing Murray, playing his game.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:41 pm

Where is everyone?

I know....cheering for Murray from behind the sofa Winking

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Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:46 pm

I m here but a boring match once again...

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Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:47 pm

Djoko is simply too quick on the ball. That's the difference really.

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Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:48 pm

Good to see Carlos at IW.... of course he did not refer Nadal's match.

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Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:49 pm

That's what I find really strange.....Djoko messing that ball after having drop shoted and Lobbed Murray. So weird.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:52 pm

Tenez wrote:That's what I find really strange.....Djoko messing that ball after having drop shoted and Lobbed Murray. So weird.

Well, that's him in a nutshell, he's got to have a crazy moment in a match...and fail to serve a set...
I can't explain it except that he relaxes seeing he's doing well in a match.
It seems really hard for him to keep focus 100%, he actually loves to play.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:54 pm

But, he's straight back into it with a break back.

Murray's serving is awful for a top 4 player.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:05 pm

Murray trying to make rallies as long as possible.
Nole's struck some great lobs this week, incl against Isner.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:06 pm

I must say Murray's loud c'moning opponent's UEs is disgusting.
Crush him Nole!!!! diva

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Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:08 pm

Murray moves like a tank in comparison his shots are too muscly and not loose enough.

It's painful to watch.

Got a diner out anyway...annoyed cause I'll miss Rao Fed too! Sad

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:09 pm

Tenez wrote:Murray moves like a tank in comparison his shots are too muscly and not loose enough.

It's painful to watch.

Got a diner out anyway...annoyed cause I'll miss Rao Fed too! Sad
Sad

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:11 pm

Nole's BH so good today.

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Post by luvsports! on Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:14 pm

What has Mauresmo done for MUrray?
Can she doing anything for him?
He has no plan B.

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Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:15 pm

Djoko is relax and play loose, Murray is all about muscling the ball and that with movement makes the score very one sided.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:17 pm

Tenez wrote:Murray moves like a tank in comparison his shots are too muscly and not loose enough.

It's painful to watch. (
Yes, he's trying to play Nadal's game, but it looks so artificial.
I wonder whose idea it was to play this hybrid style...he's beast when he's pushing and counterpunching without muscle, simply has no weapons, even his BH os looking different now, like he's lost sharpness on it with all this muscling.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:17 pm

Tenez wrote:Djoko is relax and play loose, Murray is all about muscling the ball and that with movement makes the score very one sided.
I as just going to type that!

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