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ATP Masters 1000: Indian Wells

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Post by BEL19VE on Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:04 pm

In the break Nadal gave away, he hit 2 double faults, and missed a smash.

Thank goodness he's hitting his prime !

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Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:13 pm

Nadal is starting to realise his left hand is not his natural one. It really looks like he can't coordinate anymore. Toni's choice is firing back. Young with a bit of composure shoudl have already closed that set..but he is probably going to lose it.

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Post by BEL19VE on Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:16 pm

Tenez wrote:Nadal is starting to realise his left hand is not his natural one. It really looks like he can't coordinate anymore.
Really, how annoying that Nadal starts to realise this/ lose coordination just as he enters his prime Sad


Tenez wrote:
Toni's choice is firing back.
We've been through this one before... Toni did not force Nadal to switch from right hand to left hand. He changed Nadal from DHFH to SHFH.

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Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:20 pm

Tenez wrote:
Toni's choice is firing back.
We've been through this one before... Toni did not force Nadal to switch from right hand to left hand. He changed Nadal from DHFH to SHFH. [/quote]
Remember.....you are a slow learner.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:21 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
Tenez wrote:Nadal is starting to realise his left hand is not his natural one. It really looks like he can't coordinate anymore.
Really, how annoying that Nadal starts to realise this/ lose coordination just as he enters his prime Sad

It's because balls are faster now than 10 years ago and his coordination is getting a much tougher test.
Nothing to do with declining. Tennis has moved on.

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Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:23 pm

I think the conds are perfect for Nadal actually...They say the ball are crazily bouncy and that can only favour Nadal.

The commentator was saying even that larry (still in charge btw) was nadal's biggest fan!

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Post by BEL19VE on Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:25 pm

Tenez wrote:
Remember.....you are a slow learner.
I'm sorry Tenez, wass there an actual rebuttal to what I said somewhere in that post ?
Let me get my magnifying glass out.

noleisthebest wrote:Nothing to do with declining. Tennis has moved on.
He's making double faults on every key point, his returns are firing miles long, he's making atleast 2 unforced errors every game, he's missing smashes break point down... open your eyes and look at the evidence rather than believing everything Tenez says.

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Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:31 pm

Don UEs are ridiculous.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:34 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
Tenez wrote:
Remember.....you are a slow learner.
I'm sorry Tenez, wass there an actual rebuttal to what I said somewhere in that post ?
Let me get my magnifying glass out.

noleisthebest wrote:Nothing to do with declining. Tennis has moved on.
He's making double faults on every key point, his returns are firing miles long, he's making atleast 2 unforced errors every game, he's missing smashes break point down... open your eyes and look at the evidence rather than believing everything Tenez says.
Yes, but why is he doing it?
Because he is panicking, having less time with balls coming faster at him.

Look at those old 2004/5 clips, how slow the ball travelled compared to now, he had all the time in the world to add the spin and get his feet ready.

Now, he has to react quicker and misses now and then....just like he used to do it to others for so long, but the other way round.

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Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:39 pm

I doubt Nadal would get so many easy points playing v Coric or Kokki.

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Post by BEL19VE on Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:40 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Yes, but why is he doing it?
Because he is panicking, having less time with balls coming faster at him.

Look at those old 2004/5 clips, how slow the ball travelled compared to now, he had all the time in the world to add the spin and get his feet ready.

Now, he has to react quicker and misses now and then....just like he used to do it to others for so long, but the other way round.
What on earth are you talking about ?
He's missing balls on dolly-drops, missing smashes, this court is the slowest on tour (slower than clay), and Donald Young is playing abysmally; honestly repeating what Tenez says and trying to apply it to every match doesn't work.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:53 pm

Tenez wrote:I doubt Nadal would get so many easy points playing v Coric or Kokki.

Yes, they seem to be good competitors and don't waste opportunities like Young.
Coric has already done it, Kokki is next...could it be another 1st round/exit delight in Wimbledon?

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:10 am

Dolgo playing some crazy tennis and having time of his life Bubbly

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:25 am

What a super day of tennis today diva

Murray-Mannarino, a possible upset, Mannarino playing well: watch that bh!
Nadal-Simon, it's now or never Gillou!
Djokovic-Isner, Nole lost  to Isner in IW once before, will be tough
Federer-Sock, unless Fed breaks Sock fast, this one can be costly for his back
Rosol-Berdych, check-mate!
Robredo-Raonic, could be another close one, Tommy played well against Dimi last night
Lopez-Nishikori , a beautiful clash of styles!
Kokki-Tomic, G'day-mate, very interesting, Kokki's cool head could make the difference


Last edited by noleisthebest on Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:22 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:36 am

Fed won but an ugly match from his side.. errors after errors. He should have won it no worse than 6-1, 6-1 without facing a BP. Seppi was very ordinary and yet Fed took so long to put him off.

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Post by Tenez on Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:08 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Fed won but an ugly match from his side.. errors after errors. He should have won it no worse than 6-1, 6-1 without facing a BP. Seppi was very ordinary and yet Fed took so long to put him off.
Yes this is what Fed said as well. Coudl it be the evening colder sessions which are not good for him?

A real fine china of a player these days.

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:26 am

I didn't see Fed's match, woke up in the wrong times- first to see the end of Dimi-Robredo, then when his match was already finished...

Main thing he got the job done in two sets.
He did mention conditions and having trouble timing the ball because of it, but it could also be the back...Sad

Sock will not be easy either in day or night session. But Fed should get past him, would be similar to him to playing Stan.

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:33 am

Just checked, Fed is playing afternoon session, so good for his back, but tough for timing the high bouncing lively ball.

Which should work well for Mannarino against Murray. Murray complained about the conditions after his first match, that he can't do "anything" with the ball.
Manna's playing some sly tennis these days, good to see his name in later rounds. A bit of talent never goes amiss, such a sharp BH!
He needs to stay patient as Murray is now having customary physical slumps against good players.

Simon played super yesterday and if Nadal plays like against Young, that's an astalavista baby Cool

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Post by Tenez on Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:51 am

noleisthebest wrote:I didn't see Fed's match, woke up in the wrong times- first to see the end of Dimi-Robredo, then when his match was already finished...

Main thing he got the job done in two sets.
He did mention conditions and having trouble timing the ball because of it, but it could also be the back...Sad

Sock will not be easy either in day or night session. But Fed should get past him, would be similar to him to playing Stan.
Yes he blamed the balls....like all teh other players, including Rafa...though they are best for Rafa, you just had to see how they completely took the edge of Young who pulled a 1000UEs.

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Post by Tenez on Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:53 am

noleisthebest wrote:Just checked, Fed is playing afternoon session, so good for his back, but tough for timing the high bouncing lively ball.

Which should work well for Mannarino against Murray. Murray complained about the conditions after his first match, that he can't do "anything" with the ball.
Manna's playing some sly tennis these days, good to see his name in later rounds. A bit of talent never goes amiss, such a sharp BH!
He needs to stay patient as Murray is now having customary physical slumps against good players.

Simon played super yesterday and if Nadal plays like against Young, that's an astalavista baby Cool
Yes, I saw Manarino...he was impressive.

I don;t think Fed will have much trouble v Sock.

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:58 am

Yes, Fed should like Sock's ball-striking, it's fast but predictable, no draining percentage stuff.
I love seeing how he deconstructs players' big games with aggressive variety and good serving.

Sock is a happy chappy and a good sport.

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Post by Tenez on Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:06 am

Yes..I like him....but was very lucky v Gilles Muller.

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:00 am

Didn't see that one.

I thought he was lucky against Agut, he had his shoes cut to ease the pain of blisters.
Camera kept showing it, wasn't a pretty sight...

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Post by Tenez on Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:14 pm

On this beautiful day I played with the Babolat RG balls.....they are so soft, it's very difficult to get any pace out of them.

It is not surprising Djoko usually beat Nadal on clay bar at the FO where they use those balls. What is interesting is that teh first time Babolat was asked to provide the balls to the FO, they tried to copy the Dunlop fort which were used on the TMS1000 leading to the FO...but though they used the same dimension and weight, the rubber was actually too hard whihc gave Nadal lots of trouble and almost gave Fed a chance to win another FO (2011). However Nadal must have made them known that making a soft rubber woudl kill the ball. This si why we had such slow conditions the following years.

Well now I really know. Lifeless balls.

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:04 pm

Thanks for sharing, T.

Nothing beats personally experiencing conditions, everything looks so much clearer and obvious, doesn't it?

I wasn't aware RG balls were different to Rome/Madrid ones...now it all makes sense.
I remember you mentioning the 2011 ones in the past as an experiment gone wrong with rubber which made them suitable for faster play.
No wonder Nadal feels so secure there and looks different with those custom made balls. They must sap the life out of you.

Another example of unfairness to other players.

Tennis balls is a big topic. I don't know much about them except that I hate the light bouncy ones from HEAD, to me they are the worst.

Combinantion of balls, strings and surfaces can produce so many different conditions, esp when the weather gets involved.

It's disappointing Babolat are caving to Nadal to that extent, but I can understand as he must have increased their profit million times!
Their tennis shoes are excellent, though.

Still one sponsor should not be dictating a grand slam, esp in a country that takes its pride in tennis.

I was disappointed to see he had bigger support than Nole in the final last year, though Sad

But forget about the rotten world of money...

Not many things can match playing tennis on a sunny day, esp after a long winter, even with dead Babolat balls!

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Post by Tenez on Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:18 pm

Yep...USO Wilson I remember used to be very fast as considerably smaller (I did not like them as I thought they were too fast...now they have gone the other way around, they are also dead soft.

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:22 pm

Yes, they are all similar, not much difference, I think Slazenger are still the smallest.

Pros must feel those differences so acutely, Fed changing his racquet for new balls and all that...
Maybe it's part just a habit, pros get so set in their ways and routines, get fussy.

Mind you, I can't relax if I can sense any space invasion around me, and esp the noise.
I don't know how players can put up with grunters and screamers, crowd yelling and screaming...it would drive me insane!

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Post by truffin1 on Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:44 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
Tenez wrote:
Remember.....you are a slow learner.
I'm sorry Tenez, wass there an actual rebuttal to what I said somewhere in that post ?
Let me get my magnifying glass out.

noleisthebest wrote:Nothing to do with declining. Tennis has moved on.
He's making double faults on every key point, his returns are firing miles long, he's making atleast 2 unforced errors every game, he's missing smashes break point down... open your eyes and look at the evidence rather than believing everything Tenez says.
confidence?
-
Look at Fed 2013.. he said even in periods where he felt fine- his confidence was shattered and it cause he tennis level to drop- to the world it looked like he had declined and finished....   2014 and 2015 he's playing at a level that people compare to his prime.    Nadal is in fine physical shape beyond what the peds have done to his health.   That's the big issue for him physically is his body is rebelling against the years of his abuse.   From an age standpoint though- he should be near his normal level.      doubles faults etc are not because he is declining from age.  that much is clear.

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Post by truffin1 on Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:53 pm

This is a miserable court for beautiful hard court play.  No way should a player have to work so hard to hit winners. 

Annacone was commentating Feds match last night and talked about how Fed grew up in completely different conditions than the other top players and that one of the most amazing things to Annacone is how Fed adapted and excelled.  He said Fed almost was lulled into the baseline game because he was so talented he could still dominate from there but it also was a disadvantage because along came nadal and djokovic who were trained soley for those same conditions.   Much like we are seeing a new generation come up that is changing tennis or will.

Right now Fed is easily and clearly a better player than Nadal.  anyone can see that-   but if they face each other- Nadal will prob win because of the matchup and the conditions-   specifically made just to suit him. a perfect example of why the Nadal/Fed H2h is such a unfair look into the reality of the two players abilities.

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Post by Tenez on Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:02 pm

truffin1 wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:
Tenez wrote:
Remember.....you are a slow learner.
I'm sorry Tenez, wass there an actual rebuttal to what I said somewhere in that post ?
Let me get my magnifying glass out.

noleisthebest wrote:Nothing to do with declining. Tennis has moved on.
He's making double faults on every key point, his returns are firing miles long, he's making atleast 2 unforced errors every game, he's missing smashes break point down... open your eyes and look at the evidence rather than believing everything Tenez says.
confidence?
This is what I was saying....call it confidence....but for me sometimes Nadal looks like he realises his LH is not his natural one. He looks like he has to work harder to find the autopilot. It's most obvious on the serve. And I am pretty sure that also explains what he never had a great serve despite so much power. His serve was never precise....something you woudl expect from a player of that age who hit so many serves in his life.

I disagree however that IW is slow. Not particularly. It's very bouncy though and I agreaa that this should slow down the surface but the balls are still flying through the hot air. If you read my other stats in teh Nadal v Coric post, you'd see that teh average rally time is nearly that of USO 06/7 ..when taking players like Monaco and Kokki who are not known to be particularly fast.

The bouncy, uncontrollable balls however certainly favour Nadal, even if he makes more mistakes himself......he certainly forces even more to the others.

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Post by Tenez on Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:25 pm

What a talent this Manarino.....It's absolutely unfair to see a Murray having such big arms and legs get through against such a talented player simply because he decided to cut corners.

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Post by Tenez on Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:27 pm

Murray's quads are obscene.

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Post by Tenez on Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:57 pm

Murray covering 3 times as much ground.

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Post by luvsports! on Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:07 pm

Nishi drops the first set again!  Yikes

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Post by luvsports! on Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:16 pm

looks like he is heading out.

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Post by Tenez on Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:45 pm

Murray without those muscles woudl have no chance v Mannarino...it's so frustrating.

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Post by Tenez on Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:47 pm

Would have liked to see Nishi v Djoko but nevertheless, glad for Lopy.

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:30 pm

Tenez wrote:Murray without those muscles woudl have no chance v Mannarino...it's so frustrating.

Didn't see any tennis today,unfortunately, shame for Mannarino.

Murray has now reached the muscly pusher stage, difficult to shake him off. Esp as he feels safe with guys like Mannarino, he knows he can outlast.

Not so brave when he has Nole or Nadal across the net.

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:40 pm

Tenez wrote:What a talent this Manarino.....It's absolutely unfair to see a Murray having such big arms and legs get through against such a talented player simply because he decided to cut corners.

I had a pleasure of watching him from the side of the court against Kubot and Brown in Wimbers 2013, amazing talent, wonderful serve, you can barely hear contact with the ball...and a body of an underfed teenager...

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:42 pm

Wow, Nish out!
Didn't expect that (though not hugely surprised).

Looks like many players, esp DBH-ers are struggling with this lively ball.
Nole, Nadal, Nishi, probably Murray, too struggled with their FH, actually Stan did, too.


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Post by Tenez on Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:55 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:What a talent this Manarino.....It's absolutely unfair to see a Murray having such big arms and legs get through against such a talented player simply because he decided to cut corners.

I had a pleasure of watching him from the side of the court against Kubot and Brown in Wimbers 2013, amazing talent, wonderful serve, you can barely hear contact with the ball...and a body of an underfed teenager...
I was there too. Yes...he doesn't look nearly as fit as Road laver. Beautiful talent and those big muscles deprived us of a more entertaining tennis in teh final rounds.

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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:57 pm

Yes Truffin that is a good point, Nadal's confidence is also a factor as to why he is playing so badly.

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Post by Tenez on Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:04 pm

I prefer to watch Halep than Berdych!

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:06 pm

Tenez wrote:I prefer to watch Halep than Berdych!

Me, too, but I prefer Navarro to Halep.

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Post by Tenez on Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:12 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:Yes Truffin that is a good point, Nadal's confidence is also a factor as to why he is playing so badly.
Well but he still won 64 62 an in form opponent. Compare that to "peak" Nadal at the IW 2013 v young Harrison at the same stage and Nadal is close of losing teh first set 76 62...or next round v Gulbis where he just about scraps through 75 in the 3rd.

That's why this Nadal declining now is a joke.

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:33 pm

Wow, Halep played with so much aggression, she sent Navarro to tears in the set changeover...
Still, Navarro tennis looks more real and noble.

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Post by Tenez on Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:43 pm

Is Suarez injured? I like her tennis but can't see much as the livelink is terrible.

Tenez

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ATP Masters 1000: Indian Wells - Page 4 Empty Re: ATP Masters 1000: Indian Wells

Post by BEL19VE on Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:44 pm

Tenez wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:Yes Truffin that is a good point, Nadal's confidence is also a factor as to why he is playing so badly.
Well but he still won 64 62 an in form opponent. Compare that to "peak" Nadal at the IW 2013 v young Harrison at the same stage and Nadal is close of losing teh first set 76 62...or next round v Gulbis where he just about scraps through 75 in the 3rd.

That's why this Nadal declining now is a joke.
Gulbis and Harrison both played well in those matches, meanwhile Young was atrocious yesterday.

BEL19VE

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ATP Masters 1000: Indian Wells - Page 4 Empty Re: ATP Masters 1000: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:44 pm

Rosol 3:3 in the third set!
There is something so endearing about him, can't explain it.

Go Rossy! diva

noleisthebest

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ATP Masters 1000: Indian Wells - Page 4 Empty Re: ATP Masters 1000: Indian Wells

Post by BEL19VE on Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:44 pm

Sky Bet deal was bet £5, and get £20 free.
So put £5 for an accumulator of Murray and Federer winning today (Murray has already won... if Federer wins I get 89p from that).
Then my £20 free bet was on Simon beating Nadal, at 4/1, so I get £80 for free if Simon beats Nadal.

Still supporting Rafa of course, but unless he improves from yesterday, £80 in my bank account.

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