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Djokovic's greatest triumph

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Djokovic's greatest triumph - Page 2 Empty Re: Djokovic's greatest triumph

Post by gallery play on Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:54 am

I may even win 90% + against my mate on every point...  So... I'm clearly ready to take on Federer, right?
Good logic, BB will be very happy you're teaming up with him

Whistle

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Post by bogbrush on Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:50 am

gallery play wrote:
I may even win 90% + against my mate on every point...  So... I'm clearly ready to take on Federer, right?
Good logic, BB will be very happy you're teaming up with him

Whistle
I think he's wring an absurd statement to illustrate the absurdity of the opposite argument. You write lists of % results against each other and draw conclusions from it, which is ridiculous. You home in on some stats about Djokovic this year to prove he's better yet ignore that (i) he's been losing to all sorts of players who wouldn't previously have got a set, and (ii) these losses have meant he's not generally been playing the calibre of opponents who he would have in the past and thus his stats would be expected to be better anyway.

There's simply a very weak standard of analysis being done to back up a fatuous hypothesis. 

I mean, I'm sure you're delighted that you have nitb backing you up with priceless stuff like "You don't understand the basic concept that players simply get better with age".

I've not taken that out of context and there was no reply to my mockery of it by asking why Laver isn't winning everything.

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Post by gallery play on Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:02 am

The problem with you BB, isn't that you don't read other's post very well, it isn't that you comment on matches you obviously haven't seen, it isn't that you don't understand that stats mean EVERYTHING in sport, it isn't that you constantly twist the meaning of words of others, it isn't you put words in others people's mouths..
it is your everlasting patronizing tone. Maybe it's my interpretation of that tone so no offense.

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Post by Daniel on Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:20 am

Stats don't mean everything in sport.

A % won't tell you that Federer has way more shots and tricks in his arsenal than Nadal.  The stats you provided don't tell you how fast they were running compared to yesteryear, nor unforced errors, nor serve % in, nor serve speed.

Thus, largely, they are worthless.

Bogbrush is right that the exact same variables are in play.  If you put Nadal this tournament up against Dustin Brown - who he struggles with on grass.... where does your argument go when Nadal loses again?

Nadal isn't a better player now than he was in 2008.  Know why?  Cause he's lost 5 times - many of them to total rank outsiders.  If he were getting better, the last 5 years of losing to rosol, darcis, kyrgios (then low ranked), brown, and muller... would not have happened.

But it did.

So.... you and NITB need to explain why that happened if he is getting better and better year on year.

Do you realize that your argument makes zero sense?

And likewise with Djokovic. He's just come off a total lack of tournament wins.  If he's getting better and better... how did that happen?  NITB will, of course, like a raving fanboy, blame family, his wife, his pet dog, his diet, the moon.

When facts and observations don't follow the narrative - play the excuse game.


Last edited by Daniel on Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:08 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post by Daniel on Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:26 am

Also, I keep repeating this, but scientific studies and tests have proved that as we age, we lose fine motor skills, speed, agility, and eventually even our eye sight is shot (i mean..  Bogbrush has deliberately chosen Laver as an example to illustrate the absurdity of NITB's position).

This isn't a debate we are having here and you all need to realize it.  Esp NITB.  You're arguing with science fact.

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:12 pm

gallery play wrote:The problem with you BB, isn't that you don't read other's post very well, it isn't that you comment on matches you obviously haven't seen, it isn't that you don't understand that stats mean EVERYTHING in sport, it isn't that you constantly twist the meaning of words of others, it isn't you put words in others people's mouths..
it is your everlasting patronizing tone. Maybe it's my interpretation of that tone so no offense.
No, it's not just you...

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:17 pm

bogbrush wrote:
I mean, I'm sure you're delighted that you have nitb backing you up with priceless stuff like "You don't understand the basic concept that players simply get better with age".

I've not taken that out of context and there was no reply to my mockery of it by asking why Laver isn't winning everything.

Well, sorry, but there is no other way of saying it.

I am genuinely surprised you can't see it as it is so obvious and common knowledge.

If you don't believe me, believe Federer, Nadal and Djokovic who have said so many times how they all push each other to be better players.

If a guy beats you continually, you work your socks off to improve your game and beat him. Simples.
Not to mention continuous improved timing.

Look how harder Nadal is striking his BH now.

Nole couldn't volley to save his life a few years ago and this Wimbledon he hit some first class tough volleys.

There are so many examples....

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Post by bogbrush on Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:20 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
bogbrush wrote:
I mean, I'm sure you're delighted that you have nitb backing you up with priceless stuff like "You don't understand the basic concept that players simply get better with age".

I've not taken that out of context and there was no reply to my mockery of it by asking why Laver isn't winning everything.

Well, sorry, but there is no other way of saying it.

I am genuinely surprised you can't see it as it is so obvious and common knowledge.

If you don't believe me, believe Federer, Nadal and Djokovic who have said so many times how they all push each other to be better players.

If a guy beats you continually, you work your socks off to improve your game and beat him. Simples.
Not to mention continuous improved timing.

Look how harder Nadal is  striking his BH now.

Nole couldn't volley to save his life a few years ago and this Wimbledon he hit some first class tough volleys.

There are so many examples....
Oh my God, you’ve doubled down.

Ok, so tell me if that is true why Rod Laver isn’t winning Slams today.

(this is going to be fun)


Last edited by bogbrush on Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by bogbrush on Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:22 pm

gallery play wrote:The problem with you BB, isn't that you don't read other's post very well, it isn't that you comment on matches you obviously haven't seen, it isn't that you don't understand that stats mean EVERYTHING in sport, it isn't that you constantly twist the meaning of words of others, it isn't you put words in others people's mouths..
it is your everlasting patronizing tone. Maybe it's my interpretation of that tone so no offense.
The problem with you gp is you don’t appear to have absorbed the lesson that there are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Stats are handy but you need to know how to interpret them. That’s where the insight such as that which I provide comes in.

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