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South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

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South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

Post by luvsports! on Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:12 pm

RIP beloved Madiba. A once in a generation man. A legend who dedicated his life to achieving an impossible dream, bringing peace to a deeply divided nation.
He will never be forgotten. He leaves behind an inspirational legacy. A man who taught us all how to be heroes.


Last edited by luvsports! on Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

Post by Tenez on Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:32 pm

I read his biography about 4 years ago. He is certainly a wise man, a real leader. Wish we had some of this kind here in Europe.

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Re: South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:37 pm

I attended a friend's funeral in Wolverhampton yesterday.
He was the Bishop of the Church of England Continuing. Great man with a lion's heart.

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Re: South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

Post by luvsports! on Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:44 pm

This is my wonderful grandpa with the great Mandela.
http://instagram.com/p/hjoyb9AfQm/

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Re: South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

Post by Tenez on Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:56 pm

luvsports! wrote:This is my wonderful grandpa with the great Mandela.
http://instagram.com/p/hjoyb9AfQm/
Ouahh...Was your granpa from SA?

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Re: South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

Post by luvsports! on Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:08 pm

He was born there.
He and my grandma (who died just a month after the apartheid ended) protested against the apartheid for the ANC.
My grandpa was imprisoned several times for a collective sentence of 1-2 years.
My mum and her family were put under house arrest for over a year. After repeated "offences" made worse by the fact that they "betrayed their race" they were chucked out of the country for their peaceful protests and in 1966 (my mum was 6) they had a 3 week boat journey to England.


After the apartheid ended he was invited back to SA to meet Mandela again who would talk to 100's individually and thank them.
My gramps is my W.H Auden poem quote: He is my north my south my east my west, my working week, my day of rest.
I am blessed with having an unspeakably wonderful grandfather who continues to inspire me, is the best role model I have ever known and a man who like many saw Mandela as an absolute inspiration!

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Re: South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:12 pm

Tenez wrote:I read his biography about 4 years ago. He is certainly a wise man, a real leader. Wish we had some of this kind here in Europe.
Did you really?
What wisdom did you learn from Mandela?

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Re: South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

Post by Tenez on Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:21 pm

luvsports! wrote:He was born there.
He and my grandma (who died just a month after the apartheid ended) protested against the apartheid for the ANC.
My grandpa was imprisoned several times for a collective sentence of 1-2 years.
My mum and her family were put under house arrest for over a year. After repeated "offences" made worse by the fact that they "betrayed their race" they were chucked out of the country for their peaceful protests and in 1966 (my mum was 6) they had a 3 week boat journey to England.


After the apartheid ended he was invited back to SA to meet Mandela again who would talk to 100's individually and thank them.
My gramps is my W.H Auden poem quote: He is my north my south my east my west, my working week, my day of rest.
I am blessed with having an unspeakably wonderful grandfather who continues to inspire me, is the best role model I have ever known and a man who like many saw Mandela as an absolute inspiration!
Well it must have even more meaning to you. As I read the book you understand what he went through. You get a good understanding of the state of mind of people on both sides and it's almost a miracle some kind of co-habitation worked out.

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Re: South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

Post by Tenez on Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:31 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:I read his biography about 4 years ago. He is certainly a wise man, a real leader. Wish we had some of this kind here in Europe.
Did you really?
What wisdom did you learn from Mandela?
One doesn't learn wisdom.....unfortunately. One understands it or doesn't.

It's a bit like Jesus saying "love one another"....easy to understand yet it does not make us any loving and lovable.

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Re: South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

Post by luvsports! on Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:32 pm

Yes Gramps was very upset at his passing. My family too. 
Yes the TRC was remarkable, especially by Mandela who had a remarkable lack of bitterness. 
He wanted to beat them by their game and boy did he do it.

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Re: South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

Post by Tenez on Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:40 pm

luvsports! wrote:Yes Gramps was very upset at his passing. My family too. 
Yes the TRC was remarkable, especially by Mandela who had a remarkable lack of bitterness. 
He wanted to beat them by their game and boy did he do it.
His fight against Apartheid was actually again an internal fight against his own demons....and it is his success in those fights that made him a wise man.

We here in the west are in not much different situation than he was there. The difference is most of us are not even aware we are enslaved and dominated by some manipulating elites, let alone courageous enough to free ourselves from them.

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Re: South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:48 pm

luvsports! wrote:He was born there.
He and my grandma (who died just a month after the apartheid ended) protested against the apartheid for the ANC.
My grandpa was imprisoned several times for a collective sentence of 1-2 years.
My mum and her family were put under house arrest for over a year. After repeated "offences" made worse by the fact that they "betrayed their race" they were chucked out of the country for their peaceful protests and in 1966 (my mum was 6) they had a 3 week boat journey to England.
Standing up for truth is always costly. It is a narrow road and few take it: hard, often involving "walking on water" , but worth it in the end.
Be of good courage!

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Re: South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

Post by luvsports! on Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:05 am

The long walk to freedom :)RIP Madiba.

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Re: South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

Post by luvsports! on Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:15 am

On another note i just want to add this as I think it is important to remember.


Nelson Mandela was the head of UmKhonto we Sizwe, (MK), the terrorist wing of the ANC and South African Communist Party. At his trial, he had pleaded guilty to 156 acts of public violence including mobilising terrorist bombing campaigns, which planted bombs in public places, including the Johannesburg railway station. Many innocent people, including women and children, were killed by Nelson Mandela’s MK terrorists.

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Re: South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:33 am

Tenez wrote:
One doesn't learn wisdom.....unfortunately. One understands it or doesn't.

It's a bit like Jesus saying "love one another"....easy to understand yet it does not make us any loving and lovable.
Yes, even the best of men are men at best.

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Re: South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

Post by Tenez on Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:37 am

We hear people saying that SA is worse now than it was before him, violence is everywhere, unemployment is record high with the economy at its lowest. True. Though that probably applies (to a lesser degree everywhere anyway).

But regardless this is not Mandela's problem, nor fault. A man cannot make the others wiser. Mandela just gave them the possibility to free themselves from an ruling elite. What SAfricans do with that freedom is another matter and not Mandela's business.

He is book he of course does not dwell much on the innocent victims who were part of the revolution process...but regardless what he did had to be done.

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Re: South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:41 am

Africans are not able to rule themselves, that's the problem.

Democracy does not work in that continent. They either are ruled (and exploited), or it's tribal chaos.

I have friends from former Rhodesia who were modest farmers brutally kicked out on the street out of their hard earnt and worked for plantation.
Not a penny of pension either.
The 85 year old man is now doing paper rounds around Reading  in order to afford the petrol for his car.
Many there are simply plain lazy.
Pleading hunger and poverty and not wanting to till the ground they were happy to kick white farmers from.

Not as black and white (pun not intended) as BBC like to mould us into guilt-trip thinking.
Being free is a wonderful thing, but it's what you do with that freedom that counts in the end.


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Re: South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

Post by Tenez on Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:59 am

I disagree very much here. They have a different way of organising themselves. This "tribal chaos" was working fine for 1000s of years if not tens of 1000s of years.
 
We in the west have known more wars (chaos) than any other part of the world, the most violent, the most deadly and the most cruel. We also have ruined our planet in less than a century or so, we are in a very bad position to say how the rest of the world, including Africa, should be!
 
And those people who colonised had no more right to the soil than Africans. They just enjoyed a time where it was a mutual advantage to share knowledge and they made most of that advantage. It simply normal that this advantage ends at some point in the future....like it was normal that people here in the west free themselves from royalty. It's simply an evolution process.

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Re: South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:11 am

I certainly am no fan of colonisation.
Colonisation is just another form of  conquering and exploiting through a war, just adds a race element to it.
I also have no guilt trips either.
Never been a racist which is why I have no problem talking about it freely.
In the name of greed wrapped up as human rights and prosperity, every inch of this planet has been drenched with blood and tears.

And yes, of course I know the Africans were happily living in their tribal system, just like were the Arabs in their lands before the oil was discovered there...

Democracy is an export product that simply does not fit many other cultures.
Just like the expensive fur coats Tito was generously giving as presents to those tribal leaders's wives in his days...remember  the Non-Aligned Movement from the Cold War days?

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Re: South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

Post by Tenez on Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:31 am

I actually think that colonisation, as bad as it is, has to be put back into context....and not everything about was negative. No more than the Roman invasion.

I think the current form of colonialism where "I divide to rule" (a Roman heritage) and only help myself (what's happening in the middle east for instance) is however terrible but in line with our times sadly...and I believe it is actually the end of an era (our time) with interesting time ahead.

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Re: South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:38 am

From Biblical perspective, colonisation has been an instrument of spreading the Gospel.
Unfortunately, the manner in which it happened left a lot with the bitter taste in their mouths and turned people off Christianity.
The true side of it came in through the small door, bringing in liberation of women in large parts of India for example.
However, through the big one came all the worst wars bring out of men: greed and brutality - everything Christianity is not meant to be.

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Re: South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

Post by Tenez on Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:03 pm

Liberation of women is another concept that makes me a bit sarcastic.

But I won't dwell in it here.

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Re: South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:09 pm

I knew you'd jump at it...reading me as a feminist which is what I am certainly not (but I think you know it, anyway).

I'd still like to believe you would not approve of "sati" - the religious hindu custom of burning a live widow next to her husband at his funeral, banned after the Brits colonised India.

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Re: South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

Post by Tenez on Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:24 pm

yes I heard about this old ritual but I do not whether it was practised as commonly as some said.

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Re: South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:34 pm

It probably is not difficult to find numbers which I am sure were not insignificant.
I have a few very good Indian friends who say girls are not allowed anywhere by themselves without being chaperoned, they get kidnapped and raped all the time.
That gang rape on the bus in the middle of a major city a few months ago we had a thread about here is just one example...it goes on all the time, very serious.
Girls  simply don't go to the park and play like girls do here, although even here it's getting more and more difficult with all peadophiles  on the prawl...
Not to mention women in islamic countries forced into marriage as young as 6 to old men...or those horrific surgeries they have to undergo and endure as little girls in order to guarantee their "faithfulness".
There is a lot of liberties we take for granted in the Western (christianised) societies.
Sadly, with femininism abusing those liberties and taking them to other extreme, our values have now become the but of their jokes...they call us "white trash".
When you see the pornographic pop culture, it's not a surprise...

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Re: South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

Post by luvsports! on Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:01 pm

Tenez wrote:I actually think that colonisation, as bad as it is, has to be put back into context....and not everything about was negative. No more than the Roman invasion.

I think the current form of colonialism where "I divide to rule" (a Roman heritage) and only help myself (what's happening in the middle east for instance) is however terrible but in line with our times sadly...and I believe it is actually the end of an era (our time) with interesting time ahead.
I recently watched a documentary on Sierra Leone and Liberia and many wanted to be re-colonised as the situation is so bad at present.

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Re: South Africa's greatest son, Mandela, has passed away :'(

Post by Tenez on Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:35 pm

Well like you have in Spain many regretting the dictator Franco...and for good reasons for some.

This is why I think "progress," and "freedom" are seriously over rated concepts....unless we really understand their meaning.


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