Canadian Masters 1000

So with Murray, Djokovic and Stan all absent it's Federer, Nadal and some others.

The draw is out.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/scores/current/montreal/421/draws

Not much to see except if Ferrer can get through the first two rounds there's a good chance he can be the first man to fall 0-17 behind in a head to head.

Nadal has a tough draw.

I am hoping Fed wins Montreal and rests for Cincy.....even though he probably has more chances to win Cincy....unless Montreal sped up the court to tempt him.

The head says rest, the heart says win it all.

The one saving grace is that Cincinnati won't be arduous, if he plays.

bogbrush wrote:if Ferrer can get through the first two rounds there's a good chance he can be the first man to fall 0-17 behind in a head to head.

I would not be surprised if Fed's form suddenly deserted him in the second round and he lost to one of the two Canadians he can meet there.

But why enter?

Because he is a nice guy?

Also, I am not 100% serious.  In reality, I think he will likely try his best in Canada but I hope he will have enough sense to only also try in Cincy if he fails to go deep here.  Playing a lot of matches both in Canada and Cincy would have to be seriously detrimental to his chances at the USO, and the USO must be the top priority.

Was it in 2015 that he managed to reach finals of all 3 (Canada, Cincy and USO?).

That was absolutely crazy in itself.

The draw looks weird and bare...esp with those unfamiliar WC names and so many empty LL/"special exempt" spots...what's that!!! is that something new?

I can't see Rublev's name, he should be there.

But glad Shapalov is in and close ro Nadal im the draw.
Also Medved, he could be a good one.

Other than that, I hope Ostapenko is playing in women's draw.

It seems only very young players play with passion in these "small" tournaments.

Wow, just saw Kokki beat Berdich in three sets.

Good sign. 


There is a good bunch of young players coming up.

Let's see if they can break through in Montreal.

Bogbrush do you watch test cricket?

DECIMA wrote:Bogbrush do you watch test cricket?

I don't get to see it much these days but it's imho the ultimate and best form.

Fed could win this at a canter.

Cinci should be even easier.

I think he should play it by ear. If he feels fresh and wins his matches in str8 sets - keep going. After all, he is an elite sportsman and there is a week between Cinci and USO.

I really don't think he's as fragile as people are making out.

Emancipator wrote:Fed could win this at a canter.

Cinci should be even easier.

I think he should play it by ear. If he feels fresh and wins his matches in str8 sets - keep going. After all, he is an elite sportsman and there is a week between Cinci and USO.

I really don't think he's as fragile as people are making out.

Yes, this is my feeling. Ok if he gets dragged into some really tough stuff then watch out but he must have finished Wimbledon felling he could do another one.

Miss Ostapenko burning the ball. 

So good to see her again!

She is a born champion! 

Kyrgios seems to be back on form.

What is going on with Pouille?
He is either retoring or losing to nobodies.

I hope the court in Montreal is faster than Toronto.

Stodgy court.

Coric has not done much the last couple of years. No better time than tomorrow to change that.

Actually, I have to take it back.  Just checked their H2H and I see now that Coric beat Rafa in Cincy last year 6:1 6:3.  Wow, I totally forgot about it, does not even ring a bell now that I have seen the score.

Well, hopefully he can make the H2H 3-1 tomorrow.

Coric has beaten Nadal twice and Murray twice, but it's anyone's match - esp given Nadal's confidence is back this year.

summerblues wrote:Actually, I have to take it back.  Just checked their H2H and I see now that Coric beat Rafa in Cincy last year 6:1 6:3.  Wow, I totally forgot about it, does not even ring a bell now that I have seen the score.

Well, hopefully he can make the H2H 3-1 tomorrow.

Rafa was obviously not fit in that match. I can't see Coric hurting him at all today. Can't say I want him to either. Given Coric's game, it will only be because Rafa plays poorly. Rafa v either DP or Shapovalov in the next round has the potential to be a far better match up.

"not fit in that match".  Every time Nadal loses, that line is trotted out and it needs to stop.  A player who chooses to take part feels he or she is good enough and that's the end of it. There is no way you can remotely prove that statement is true.

But coric has beaten him twice.

Sure but sometimes it's obviously true. No point ignoring it and pretending the weaponless Coric would win 10 games in a row against Rafa in normal circumstances.

Slippy wrote:

summerblues wrote:Actually, I have to take it back.  Just checked their H2H and I see now that Coric beat Rafa in Cincy last year 6:1 6:3.  Wow, I totally forgot about it, does not even ring a bell now that I have seen the score.

Well, hopefully he can make the H2H 3-1 tomorrow.

Rafa was obviously not fit in that match. I can't see Coric hurting him at all today. Can't say I want him to either. Given Coric's game, it will only be because Rafa plays poorly. Rafa v either DP or Shapovalov in the next round has the potential to be a far better match up.

Coric was pretty good a few years ago.
Don't forget his famous line:

"When I play my best I am like Djokovic, and when I don't , I am like Murray."

He looks like he is stringing a few wins now, so we may get a good match tonight.

Daniel wrote:"not fit in that match".  Every time Nadal loses, that line is trotted out and it needs to stop.  A player who chooses to take part feels he or she is good enough and that's the end of it. There is no way you can remotely prove that statement is true.

I disagree with you here, and not just because it's Nadal but for any player.
I am against injury excuses if they are used without any direct evidence, i.e. if you think 'oh wow Nadal is a better player than Coric so if he lost he must be injured'. I've seen both Nadal and Federer fans do that, on this forum it's Federer fans.
However in terms of intelligent analysis of how one match could be a preview for future matches, I do think it is sensible to see if one players was clearly injured.
I won't talk about Nadal in this instance because I know you don't like him, but just watch the 6-1 6-3 win Coric had against him in Cincy last year and come to your own conclusions.
Let's take Fed vs Stakhovsky Wimbledon 2013. When making predictions for their next match on grass, you have to look back at the previous matches- and when you do you have to take into account that Stak's win was helped by the fact Federer was injured. If Fed injured his back very badly and got destroyed by Dan Evans, and a few months later he was clearly injury free, you woudlnt' place your bets on Dan Evans based on his previous win would you?

bogbrush wrote:

DECIMA wrote:Bogbrush do you watch test cricket?

I don't get to see it much these days but it's imho the ultimate and best form.

Yeah it really is, just takes a lot of patience which younger generations perhaps don't have, they want instant reward so like 2020.

I know you don't use 606v2 anymore, so have a look and contribute if you want:
http://www.606v2.com/t66159-has-standard-of-test-cricket-declined-in-past-decade
OP is just a simple XI comparison of England, India, SA, Aus XIs throughout the past decade or so, with some comment at the end.
The thread though has some interesting analysis on how different factors, such as proliferation of 2020, professionalism are impacting the standard of test cricket for better or for worse.

You can't compare Nadal with Federer (or Djokovic).

He is like a boy who cried wolf. Claimed he was injured too many times, people, in the end stopped believing him.

I am sure he had many injuries (and played with them), esp with his style of play, it's just tat as a player you try to hide you are injured, not advertise it to your opponents.

Remember this thread?

https://ourtennisforum.forumotion.co.uk/t140-nadal-is-back-in-two-weeks?

& this one:

https://ourtennisforum.forumotion.co.uk/t306-list-of-matches-nadal-has-lost-when-he-is-fully-fit?

I don't think Nadal even claimed after the Coric match he was injured so you don't know what you're talking about.

DECIMA wrote:I don't think Nadal even claimed after the Coric match he was injured so you don't know what you're talking about.

Nadal didn't but Slippy did.

DECIMA wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

DECIMA wrote:Bogbrush do you watch test cricket?

I don't get to see it much these days but it's imho the ultimate and best form.

Yeah it really is, just takes a lot of patience which younger generations perhaps don't have, they want instant reward so like 2020.

I know you don't use 606v2 anymore, so have a look and contribute if you want:
http://www.606v2.com/t66159-has-standard-of-test-cricket-declined-in-past-decade
OP is just a simple XI comparison of England, India, SA, Aus XIs throughout the past decade or so, with some comment at the end.
The thread though has some interesting analysis on how different factors, such as proliferation of 2020, professionalism are impacting the standard of test cricket for better or for worse.

Was an interesting view. Don't go with the conclusion the 2010 teams were better over the timespan. Shed load of quality in the 2005 teams.

I think one issue you did overlook was the political influence of cricketing boards in selection. South Africa currently in dispute about the selection process, WI all but destroyed their test teams with rows about fees and look what's happening with Cricket Australia. The ECB have had to rely heavily on central contracts to incentivise the players.

Usually Test Cricket in the early days of ODI's/2020 used to feed those teams, now it seems to have gone the other way. Look at how desperately England have tried in integrate Buttler and Hales into the Test Team. The formats have created more diverse specialists.

Slippy wrote:Sure but sometimes it's obviously true. No point ignoring it and pretending the weaponless Coric would win 10 games in a row against Rafa in normal circumstances.

So why has he beaten him twice?  If Nadal wasn't fit then he wouldn't enter. Nadal is not nearly as good off clay as on it.

The 2014 loss to Coric Nadal had appendicitis and had a surgery immediately after that loss.
As for last year's loss-
Born Slippy is a Murray fan and saying Nadal was not fully fit when he lost 6-3 6-1 to Coric, I'm a Nadal fan so biased so I can understand if u put my claims under scrutiny, but take Slippy's word for it.

I actually agree with you in a way- it's part of Nadal's job to be in the best condition for a match, and if he can't do that that is his fault and it doesn't take away from the fact he's lost. So I can understand your frustration at partisan fans 'excusing' their player's losses. But at the same time, as I said a few posts above, when it comes to predicting future matches, the conditions of various players must come into consideration. As I said, Stakhovsky beat an injured Fed in Wimby 2013 and you wouldn't use that to bet on Stak in future Wimbledon matches against roger, would you?

Yes, that's the point. It's fair enough saying "no excuses - it's a genuine loss". However, we are predicting here what might happen this time. Rafa had gone straight from the Olympics and had treatment on his wrist during their last match. Taking that into account, I'm predicting that Rafa will win this time.

In interview Polansky said the courts are slower and grittier than previous years.

Watching Shapa-Delpo, windy but the court speed looks good.

Shapa is fantastic.

I think the Court looks like treacle, myself.

Nishikori what a sack of useless shit. 5-2 in second and lost it. 4 MPs in the 3rd TB and lost it to Monfils.

A true weak streak of piss!

Had a look at Federer-Polansky higjlights.

Federer already playing sublime tennis. I just can't believe how good he is!

Come on Delpo, crush this russian fuk, oh he even resided on Bahamas to avoid taxes, crush himmmm

I watched the Federer match. Don't be deceived, it was easy and his backhand was misfiring quite a bit. He didn't appear to like the Court / wind.

It was ok for a first match since Wimbledon.

Play seems slow somehow on TV, players look like slow motion.

bogbrush wrote:Not much to see except if Ferrer can get through the first two rounds there's a good chance he can be the first man to fall 0-17 behind in a head to head.

Well, it's on!

Wow, good old Ferru still grinding bones to powder!

I saw the score when he was seriously down in the first set and thought: well that's him...he ain't Roger to play "old" and win...

Great grit!

Nobody beats Ferru 18 times in a row, and nobody bites towel like him, either!

Daniel wrote:Coric has beaten Nadal twice and Murray twice, but it's anyone's match - esp given Nadal's confidence is back this year.

You are blind to details unfortunately. Only numbers speak to you but sadly you don't know how to analyse those numbers.

Well its only 16 now, maybe 17 next.

Tenez wrote:

Daniel wrote:Coric has beaten Nadal twice and Murray twice, but it's anyone's match - esp given Nadal's confidence is back this year.

You are blind to details unfortunately. Only numbers speak to you but sadly you don't know how to analyse those numbers.

I've seen the numbers.  I noted them above.  He beat Murray twice and Nadal twice.  That's a fact - something you are always low on. Blaming injury isn't a fact - it's wild theorizing with no evidence. It must be an awful world you inhabit, where everything makes sense at the same time as nothing making sense.  A world that you just dream around your own wants - regardless of reality.  I'd not want to live in a world where facts and reason are just thrown out to fit whatever I wanted.  Your way is cheap and nasty. Any time you are wrong or your logic lacking (way too often), you just make a sad excuse or jump to the next wild theory.  Sad excuse after sad excuse. Deflection on deflection.  BOooooooring.    Tinfoil hat territory.

Coric is playing like Djokovic with tennis elbow tonight.

legendkillar wrote:Nishikori what a sack of useless shit. 5-2 in second and lost it. 4 MPs in the 3rd TB and lost it to Monfils.

A true weak streak of piss!

He is the weakest, pussyiest sportsperson I have ever seen.  He makes Monfailure look like he has balls.  Nish.  That's what he will win.

Oh, but maybe not.  Tenez told me last year how Nishikori was already better than Djok and just needed more experience in order to start mopping up the slams.  How's that going, Ten? 

This is very fun he's making this lightweight run from pillar to post

Zverev taking a joke MTO in the middle of his opponent's game.

ATP has gone to dogs.