ATP 1000: Indian Wells

Ah! I misunderstood the schedule. the day rest is today for fed. Shame as It woudl have been better to rest before Nishi or the final.

Anyway, that will do him some good v Kyrgios.

bogbrush wrote:
This Federer backhand is better than Wawrinkas by some distance. It's almost as powerful but the variety and direction is vastly superior. It's also, crucially, taken far earlier than Stans.

For now I'll still pick Stan's BH. Its still more stable on DTL shots over the higher part of the net and on inside-out. Nadal has been doing the same for as he always does against Fed. So that kind of is predictable for Fed. It was always predictable for Fed, only now he has learnt to deal with it in so much better way.

I'd go so far as to say that Federers reinvention if his game at 35 might stand as one of the greatest testaments to his unique talent. It's like we've got another member of the next generation of players, except he's close to middle-aged. 

Absolutely, without a second thought. At 35 Fed can work to improve his biggest weakness i.e. BH playing his toughest rival. Tennis has never seen a player like him.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Absolutely, without a second thought. At 35 Fed can work to improve his biggest weakness i.e. BH playing his toughest rival. Tennis has never seen a player like him.

I think what really made him a better player is the racket. As simple as that. I am not sure Fed 2017 woudl be as good as Fed 2012 with his old racquet.

It can be argued that before tennis went professional players hence with unchanged technology and little increase in youngsters taking teh sport, that players were actually very successful in their 30s.

Smpras and Agassi were also playing their best in their 30s cause then there had been a long steady and unchanged tech conds (Graphite larger frames and nat gut).

My point has always been the same and proven by experience that what allows youngsters to be successful young is when there is a big changes in playing conds throwing years of experience from teh older players out of the window (McEnroe v Becker or Pete for instance).

Re Stan's BH, I would also add, that he has never played with a Prostaff, let alone with a smaller size head.

Isn't Yonex known for the big sweetspot?

Plus, his slice and volleys are quite behind Fed's...which is why he doesn't serve and volley.

That aside, I think it's amazing how two best players are both SBHers and bo Swiss.

I even saw a mini clip of them playing that Olympic doubles final (as part of a long clip featuring top ten Federer's emotional wins), and the tennis they produced in doubles was fantastic.

And may I add 4/8 left in the draw are SBH-ers!

Shame Dimi got knocked out.

is djokovic finished and burnt out? 
what do you think NITB?

... wrote:Re Stan's BH, I would also add, that he has never played with a Prostaff, let alone with a smaller size head.

Isn't Yonex known for the big sweetspot?

Plus, his slice and volleys are quite behind Fed's...which is why he doesn't serve and volley.

That aside, I think it's amazing how two best players are both SBHers and bo Swiss.

I even saw a mini clip of them playing that Olympic doubles final (as part of a long clip featuring top ten Federer's emotional wins), and the tennis they produced in doubles was fantastic.

I agree. he was smart enough not to stick to that impossible racquet and that's clearly Fed's problem. the fact he coudl be good enough to play with it and win 17 slams may have encouraged him to stick to it. But as a professional he certainly should have explored the new tools way beforehand. I am pretty sure he woudl be on 25 slams by now.

Tenez wrote:

... wrote:Re Stan's BH, I would also add, that he has never played with a Prostaff, let alone with a smaller size head.

Isn't Yonex known for the big sweetspot?

Plus, his slice and volleys are quite behind Fed's...which is why he doesn't serve and volley.

That aside, I think it's amazing how two best players are both SBHers and bo Swiss.

I even saw a mini clip of them playing that Olympic doubles final (as part of a long clip featuring top ten Federer's emotional wins), and the tennis they produced in doubles was fantastic.

I agree. he was smart enough not to stick to that impossible racquet and that's clearly Fed's problem. the fact he coudl be good enough to play with it and win 17 slams may have encouraged him to stick to it. But as a professional he certainly should have explored the new tools way beforehand. I am pretty sure he woudl be on 25 slams by now.

And I am sure he is regretting it more and more, especially after seeing how well he is able to play now.

He did say in one of his interviews how he always "played around" with different models from Wilson...but somehow still kept the old stick for so/too long.

Maybe he just loved it and changed it when he realised he hit the brick wall with it - and could not continue (that match vs Robredo in USO 13 always sticks in mind) having previously ignored all the alarm bells along the way.

It would be interesting to find out why exactly he kept all that time.

Veejay wrote:is djokovic finished and burnt out? 
what do you think NITB?

Is he burnt out?

Far from it. I don't think he ever will be.

Is he finished?

His dominance is finished.
As you said, he looks like he is not on gluten free diet any more.
That means less muscle mass.

That means shorter rallies.

That means more risk.

Is he good enough to play like that?

Maybe and a big maybe if he rides on confidence, which is eluding him right now...it may never come back...we just don't know.

The remainder of his career will be a testament to his talent. Maybe 1-2 more slams on hard courts.

I just hope Murray's sushi diet gets busted asap.

Than we can all sit back and enjoy tennis.

well to go from winning 4 majors in a row to where he is at today is just bizarre and it looks like he is slipping more and more with every tournament 
it would be lovely if this were happening to murray rather then novak

I don;t think Djoko's problem is a glutten free issue. It is clearly a confidence issue. Very obvious on tension and crucial points. If you look at the deciding games at 5/6 or even in TB, he is no longer confident to pull the trigger (to be fair he never quite was - including in this USO11 or USO 07 where he cracked each time he was under pressure, even if he managed to get through thanks to his stamina and bit of luck)..however in the past he was confident enough to know that his opponents would feel the pressure on those crucial points more than him the retriever.

But he has lost that extra confidence which may affect his footwork too. Nerves can do that. Difficult to say which came first.

Murray is doomed. He can;t keep winning all those close game he did in that WTF and besides he can't handle pacy conds.

I see the rest of the year pretty open actually.

Daniel wrote:Oh, you not gonna challenge that match point, asshole?

Jeez.. get a grip.

He's just a tennis player who doesn't even know you exist.

Tenez wrote:

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Absolutely, without a second thought. At 35 Fed can work to improve his biggest weakness i.e. BH playing his toughest rival. Tennis has never seen a player like him.

I think what really made him a better player is the racket. As simple as that. I am not sure Fed 2017 woudl be as good as Fed 2012 with his old racquet.

It can be argued that before tennis went professional players hence with unchanged technology and little increase in youngsters taking teh sport, that players were actually very successful in their 30s.

Smpras and Agassi were also playing their best in their 30s cause then there had been a long steady and unchanged tech conds (Graphite larger frames and nat gut).

My point has always been the same and proven by experience that what allows youngsters to be successful young is when there is a big changes in playing conds throwing years of experience from teh older players out of the window (McEnroe v Becker or Pete for instance).

Totally agree that the racquet has helped him immensely - should have made the switch in 2010 - probably would have another 2-3 slams.

TMF wrote:

Daniel wrote:Oh, you not gonna challenge that match point, asshole?

Jeez.. get a grip.

He's just a tennis player who doesn't even know you exist.

Can I apply that to your hatred (irrational) of Donald Trump? To the point of psychotic - calling people racist for disagreeing with you? 

Get lost. I can and will comment on crap behaviour from anyone. 

This is a tennis forum, or is your brain not up to understanding that?
-------------------

On Federer, I think a lot of people here are missing the point that he isn't in his prime and will still suffer off days and bad matches much more often than he used to. Plus if he comes up against an A game Kyrgios, he is very likely not going to be able to keep up.  I don't expect him to win any more slams, but it's not as impossible as it once seemed for him to win Wimbledon or the US this year.

Finally saw yesterdays highlights.
Djoko, what's wrong with him!? Absolutely zero confidence. He's so scared to miss. He played everything right into Kyrgios' striking zone, can't do that against him

Fedal: it's getting funny. It's not just that NAdal can't hurt Fed's backhand. It's beyond that. Fed constantly hurts NAdal with his BH. It's like Karlovic needs to keep the ball in play as result of his opponant hitting so many return winners..

I don't think Kyrgios has much of a change against Federer. He will be moved around a lot more. Probably his footwork is not good enough to hit big, while being the hunted.

I see it the other way.... that Federer has it all to do against Kyrgios the way he was playing.  I might even put a bet on Kyrgios, but the bookies are, rightfully, putting it at close odds for either.

gallery play wrote:Finally saw yesterdays highlights.
Djoko, what's wrong with him!? Absolutely zero confidence. He's so scared to miss. He played everything right into Kyrgios' striking zone, can't do that against him

Fedal: it's getting funny. It's not just that NAdal can't hurt Fed's backhand. It's beyond that. Fed constantly hurts NAdal with his BH. It's like Karlovic needs to keep the ball in play as result of his opponant hitting so many return winners..

I don't think Kyrgios has much of a change against Federer. He will be moved around a lot more. Probably his footwork is not good enough to hit big, while being the hunted.

Yes. Fed's BH was more of a weapon than Nadal's FH nowadays. It confirms that had fed not had some dips in that AO final it woudl have been a straight 3 sets win too.

How did you find Nadal? he looked good to me. Very powerful hitter and hitting deep.....but maybe that benefitted federer.

It;s all there: The racquet!




And the journalist (can't remember her name but the one who said he tanked v Murray a few years ago) agreeing that he is playing as well as ever...

Tenez wrote:It;s all there: The racquet!




And the journalist (can't remember her name but the one who said he tanked v Murray a few years ago) agreeing that he is playing as well as ever...

It's Mary Carillo, I think.

Yes, the BH!

Have you ever seen him it better than last night against Nadal?

To me, the key line im that interview is when he is surprised how well he played on THAT court.

Meaning sandy slow and high bounce.

That bodes well for clay and I am sure he may start getting excited about it now.

Also, I read how apparently his dad (and ALL his coaches) was always frustrated with his BH urging him to : just hit it!!!!

That is a very very interesting insight.

Well now, he is free to do it, at last! And look what fun he is having...I keep saying, the best is yet to come!!!

gallery play wrote:Finally saw yesterdays highlights.
Djoko, what's wrong with him!? Absolutely zero confidence. He's so scared to miss. He played everything right into Kyrgios' striking zone, can't do that against him

Fedal: it's getting funny. It's not just that NAdal can't hurt Fed's backhand. It's beyond that. Fed constantly hurts NAdal with his BH. It's like Karlovic needs to keep the ball in play as result of his opponant hitting so many return winners..

I don't think Kyrgios has much of a change against Federer. He will be moved around a lot more. Probably his footwork is not good enough to hit big, while being the hunted.

Djoko is trying hard, but it's not happening.

I wouldn't be surprised if he brings Boris back out of despair.

He has a real loser in his box atm - Vemic.

Except his physio and that Austrian fitness coach they are all yes-men.

And he is now beginning to grunt even more when he is playing, it's terrible.

Do you think the conds are slow? I find them pretty fast.

If he stays fit but frankly he is going to tire more quickly as well as getting injured more often. But yes on the day he has proven he can still amaze us with his tennis like he did in the 2003 or 06.

... wrote:

gallery play wrote:Finally saw yesterdays highlights.
Djoko, what's wrong with him!? Absolutely zero confidence. He's so scared to miss. He played everything right into Kyrgios' striking zone, can't do that against him

Fedal: it's getting funny. It's not just that NAdal can't hurt Fed's backhand. It's beyond that. Fed constantly hurts NAdal with his BH. It's like Karlovic needs to keep the ball in play as result of his opponant hitting so many return winners..

I don't think Kyrgios has much of a change against Federer. He will be moved around a lot more. Probably his footwork is not good enough to hit big, while being the hunted.

Djoko is trying hard, but it's not happening.

I wouldn't be surprised if he brings Boris back out of despair.

He has a real loser in his box atm - Vemic.

Except his physio and that Austrian fitness coach they are all yes-men.

And he is now beginning to grunt even more when he is playing, it's terrible.

His losing streak started with Becker. I think we are going to see the end of those slam champions coaches soon.

Tenez wrote:

gallery play wrote:Finally saw yesterdays highlights.
Djoko, what's wrong with him!? Absolutely zero confidence. He's so scared to miss. He played everything right into Kyrgios' striking zone, can't do that against him

Fedal: it's getting funny. It's not just that NAdal can't hurt Fed's backhand. It's beyond that. Fed constantly hurts NAdal with his BH. It's like Karlovic needs to keep the ball in play as result of his opponant hitting so many return winners..

I don't think Kyrgios has much of a change against Federer. He will be moved around a lot more. Probably his footwork is not good enough to hit big, while being the hunted.

Yes. Fed's BH was more of a weapon than Nadal's FH nowadays. It confirms that had fed not had some dips in that AO final it woudl have been a straight 3 sets win too.

How did you find Nadal? he looked good to me. Very powerful hitter and hitting deep.....but maybe that benefitted federer.

The problem for Nadal is that is doesn't really matter what he does. Even deep hitting does not help him against early hitting Federer. Now Federer has full confidence in his new racket, he can hit half volleys from both wings. It completely devalues Nadal's spinny game. Hence Nadal looking like a supporting actor.
Nadal said he didn't play as well as he did in the AO final. But like you said: the AO final could have been as one sided as this one, had Federer kept his focus throughout. 
So how well is Nadal playing now? Imo hard to tell based upon his recent matches against Federer. I guess he probably plays good enough to win titles.. on clay that is! Off clay there are many guys who can beat him, and he knows it.

... wrote:

Also, I read how apparently his dad (and ALL his coaches) was always frustrated with his BH urging him to : just hit it!!!!

Not sure they all did. Tony Roche was never doing much on court coaching, but when he did he said: "Place the ball". 
A typical sixties or seventies way of thinking. It was under Roche when Federer lost all his faith against Nadal. He ended up playing apathically: placing the ball. Even the clip of that 2006 indoor match -which was one by Fed- but boy, did his BH look toothless against Nadal or what.

Tenez wrote:Do you think the conds are slow? I find them pretty fast.

If he stays fit but frankly he is going to tire more quickly as well as getting injured more often. But yes on the day he has proven he can still amaze us with his tennis like he did in the 2003 or 06.

I don't think they are slow but not as fast as AO.
Fed said it's a sandy surface, and that's probably true with Larry being Nadal fan.

Maybe he is surprised with the effect of him taking thr BH early with that hier bounce.

gallery play wrote:

... wrote:

Also, I read how apparently his dad (and ALL his coaches) was always frustrated with his BH urging him to : just hit it!!!!

Not sure they all did. Tony Roche was never doing much on court coaching, but when he did he said: "Place the ball". 
A typical sixties or seventies way of thinking. It was under Roche when Federer lost all his faith against Nadal. He ended up playing apathically: placing the ball. Even the clip of that 2006 indoor match -which was one by Fed- but boy, did his BH look toothless against Nadal or what.

That's what he said in an interview the other day.

I didn't know about Roche's coaching philosophy...pretty depressing!

I'd like to see him on the court placing it vs Nadal.

Tenez wrote:

His losing streak started with Becker. I think we are going to see the end of those slam champions coaches soon.

What makes you say that?

Nadal isn't playing as well as he used to, something that's being completely thrown out of the equation also.  I am a Fed fan, but I am not going to just throw out inconvenient facts.

... wrote:

Tenez wrote:

His losing streak started with Becker. I think we are going to see the end of those slam champions coaches soon.

What makes you say that?

He was with Becker at Wimbledon till end of season, wasn't he?

Cause besides Murray no-one won his first slam with the support of a former slam champions. Real champions do not need slams champions to tell them how to win. I cannot see Kyrgios asking another slam champion how to win.

the era of fabricated champion a la Murray will end soon.

Daniel wrote:Nadal isn't playing as well as he used to, something that's being completely thrown out of the equation also.  I am a Fed fan, but I am not going to just throw out inconvenient facts.

Clutching at straws as usual

That's in effect your last saving argument. As there is no way you or anyone can check whether Nadal has lost a 10th of a second on his speed, you can conveniently hide behind this non-sense. What if he lost a 10th of speed but gained 20th of a second cause he is anticipating better thanks to playing teh same players again and again?

The fact that Fed won teh AO at 35 and just lessoned nadal like almost never before should give you the humility to admit you have been dead wrong all along without even considering all the other facts such as 50 of of the top 128 players entering slams are now 30+, slams winners have been 29 or plus for the last 2 years.

But I guess the power of the minds are so strong that they simply cannot admit being wrong.  But don't worry, reality always catches up.

Tenez wrote:

... wrote:

Tenez wrote:
His losing streak started with Becker. I think we are going to see the end of those slam champions coaches soon.

What makes you say that?

He was with Becker at Wimbledon till end of season, wasn't he?

Yes, but the spiral started during Wimbledon.
I know for sure about the personal issue, but I think he was caught as well at the same time and those two together caused such rapid and unprecedented downfall.
There was nothing Becker could do in that situation.
Nole had to "put out" fire on two fronts.

Tenez wrote:
Cause besides Murray no-one won his first slam with the support of a former slam champions. Real champions do not need slams champions to tell them how to win. I cannot see Kyrgios asking another slam champion how to win.
the era of fabricated champion a la Murray will end soon.

I really hope so!

In fact, I think Murray is the last one standing now.

When Nadal raised the physical bar, Nole and Murray followed and changed their game:
From the aggressive baseline counterpuncher, Nole turned into a physical aggressive asphyxiating percentage counterpuncher, and Murray transformed from a pusher into a hybrid percentage Michelin-man (still gutless most of the time).

Then, everyone caught up and now Nadal has abandoned his 4m behind the baseline position (and looks like fish out of water a bit), and I believe Nole is trying to revert to his pre-Nadal game (benefitting from more game he aquired in the meantime as well as better timing).

The thing is - they are facing different opposition so it's going to be very tough - as we could see vs Kyrgios.

Only Murray is still ploughing on, trusting in muscles and his formula alone, but we can see it's not working as before - hence many  early losses this year. (it's not i possoble he's carrying an injury or stg)

So that trio is on its last legs.

lovely article 
http://deadspin.com/dont-call-this-vintage-federer-hes-got-a-brand-new-wea-1793345723?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=tennis

Daniel wrote:

TMF wrote:

Daniel wrote:Oh, you not gonna challenge that match point, asshole?

Jeez.. get a grip.

He's just a tennis player who doesn't even know you exist.

Can I apply that to your hatred (irrational) of Donald Trump? To the point of psychotic - calling people racist for disagreeing with you? 

Get lost. I can and will comment on crap behaviour from anyone. 

This is a tennis forum, or is your brain not up to understanding that?
-------------------

On Federer, I think a lot of people here are missing the point that he isn't in his prime and will still suffer off days and bad matches much more often than he used to. Plus if he comes up against an A game Kyrgios, he is very likely not going to be able to keep up.  I don't expect him to win any more slams, but it's not as impossible as it once seemed for him to win Wimbledon or the US this year.

So angry.. some counselling perhaps?

It would help.. honestly - I'm a medic so I know about these things. You could start by listing all the things you're angry with.. I suspect you may need a few sessions.

Tenez wrote:Do you think the conds are slow? I find them pretty fast.

If he stays fit but frankly he is going to tire more quickly as well as getting injured more often. But yes on the day he has proven he can still amaze us with his tennis like he did in the 2003 or 06.

Yes IW is strange in that the ball bounces high but also flies through the air fast - I don't know why that is - maybe something to do with the dry desert air. Certainly to me it doesn't look like a typical slow court.

gallery play wrote:Finally saw yesterdays highlights.
Djoko, what's wrong with him!? Absolutely zero confidence. He's so scared to miss. He played everything right into Kyrgios' striking zone, can't do that against him

Fedal: it's getting funny. It's not just that NAdal can't hurt Fed's backhand. It's beyond that. Fed constantly hurts NAdal with his BH. It's like Karlovic needs to keep the ball in play as result of his opponant hitting so many return winners..

I don't think Kyrgios has much of a change against Federer. He will be moved around a lot more. Probably his footwork is not good enough to hit big, while being the hunted.

I noticed this too about Djokovic. So tentative. Playing everything down the middle. His confidence is shot at the moment.

He's just blown it. He had the opportunity after the FO last year to go down as the most prolific slam champion of all time. It was a long shot but possible. I think the precipitious fall from grace has left him a little shell shocked. He needs to get out of this funk asap or he's gonna tumble down the rankings.

Also agree regarding Kyrgios - Federer will be ready for him. He'll move him around, take the ball early and take his time away. Kyrgios will have no answer to that, however, Fed needs to get a read on the serve, which could be tough.

Daniel wrote:Nadal isn't playing as well as he used to, something that's being completely thrown out of the equation also.  I am a Fed fan, but I am not going to just throw out inconvenient facts.

Oh, the irony.

Who is wining tonight?

Not that many experts are here that guess right, actually this is the worst forum ever, where posters don't have a clue who is going to win a match, mostly doom & gloom crap, and then Oh WOW i never though he would win, oh WOW blla blla   disaster and amateurs.

I said Fed woudl win Nadal in straight sets if fit. Who said that and where?

Fed shoudl win v Kyrgios too. Maybe in 3 as teh serve will be tough to handle.

And Nishi of course.

Good, Fed 1, me 2.

Fed in 2, if anyone can tame big servers, it's Fed, unless some TB then 50/50.

Fed gets a w/o from Kyrgios!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/39308592

I suppose a day of extra rest won't hurt.

One issue Fed will face is the noon conds being very different from the ones he played v Nadal. So his timing might suffer from it. But I still fancy him.

... wrote:Fed gets a w/o from Kyrgios!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/39308592

I suppose a day of extra rest won't hurt.

Wow! That will make a big difference! He is going to be fresh when facing Nishi...and I can't see Stan troubling him in the final.

Anything to stop me winning a cool 100.

Fed is at 8.0 to win Wimby....very tempting!

Stan to win FO at 8-1 is tempting me. But it's a bit too much of a lotto really.

wtfffffffffff , well ok then Ninja-Fed?

Jahu wrote:Who is wining tonight?

Not that many experts are here that guess right, actually this is the worst forum ever, where posters don't have a clue who is going to win a match, mostly doom & gloom crap, and then Oh WOW i never though he would win, oh WOW blla blla   disaster and amateurs.

was really looking forward to the federer/kyrgios showdown oh well its federer's tournament to lose now

Tenez wrote:Fed is at 8.0 to win Wimby....very tempting!

Indeed!

Krygios withdrew - crapping himself or something?

Stan at 8 for the French, Federer at 8 for Wimbledon..... maybe a great bet is out there for the Swiss double

Fed should roll through Nishi and Stan for the title.

Incredible - a possible crack at Sampras's 6 year ending number one's? It's the only major record he doesn't hold.