ATP 500/250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

What a lucky shot from nadal again on such a crucial point....if it was not an amazing shot from Fog, Nadal would still be in it with a good chance.

Nadal not in the mood to congratulate Fog! bad loser.....or rather too much pressure from sponsors!

Kim Jong-Un wrote:Really poor performance from Rafa, the tournament isn't exactly important, but he has to look to build up his form.
Buenos Aires next week.

I did not realize Nadal was also playing next week. Who else is playing in Buenos Aires? All the same people from this week?

Kim Jong-Un wrote:Really poor performance from Rafa, the tournament isn't exactly important, but he has to look to build up his form.
Buenos Aires next week.

It's not poor. It's cramping.....too much lactic acid in his muscles.....cause he simply uses them way too much. Now that players are getting as fit (Fog has also biggen up), he needs to run and hit harder than even before. His muscles can't cope anymore. Vesely would beat Nadal too nowadays.

summerblues wrote:

Kim Jong-Un wrote:Really poor performance from Rafa, the tournament isn't exactly important, but he has to look to build up his form.
Buenos Aires next week.

I did not realize Nadal was also playing next week.  Who else is playing in Buenos Aires?  All the same people from this week?

Very similar crew, apart from Ferrer it looks like. 
Nadal has a lot of room for improvement... a win there would help his confidence.

Tenez wrote:Vesely would beat Nadal too nowadays.

Let's not get carried away too far.  I am hoping for many more results such as this one, but let's not celebrate them until they actually do happen.  Come RG, Rafa will be dangerous as usual - though I am tipping him to fail to win the title.

I really enjoyed Fognini's tennis tonight, was breath-taking at times, Nadal tried everything.

Ferrer to batter a dead Fog.

Kim Jong-Un wrote:a win there would help his confidence.

...then we all have to hope he does not win there.

summerblues wrote:

Tenez wrote:Vesely would beat Nadal too nowadays.

Let's not get carried away too far.  I am hoping for many more results such as this one, but let's not celebrate them until they actually do happen.  Come RG, Rafa will be dangerous as usual - though I am tipping him to fail to win the title.

SB,

please relaaaaaaax and enjoy the moment FOR ONCE IN YOUR STATISTICAL LIFE!!!

summerblues wrote:

Tenez wrote:Vesely would beat Nadal too nowadays.

Let's not get carried away too far.  I am hoping for many more results such as this one, but let's not celebrate them until they actually do happen.  Come RG, Rafa will be dangerous as usual - though I am tipping him to fail to win the title.

I based it on the fact Vesely wasted 3 or 4 MPs v Fognini earlier this week. Vesely has a fearsome serve on top of his groundshots....but his mind is still a bit suspect.

Tenez wrote:

Kim Jong-Un wrote:Really poor performance from Rafa, the tournament isn't exactly important, but he has to look to build up his form.
Buenos Aires next week.

It's not poor. It's cramping.....too much lactic acid in his muscles.....cause he simply uses them way too much. Now that players are getting as fit (Fog has also biggen up), he needs to run and hit harder than even before. His muscles can't cope anymore. Vesely would beat Nadal too nowadays.

Tenez, Nadal was poor with his groundstrokes and mentally wavered... he did not lose because of lack of stamina.

noleisthebest wrote:I really enjoyed Fognini's tennis tonight, was breath-taking at times, Nadal tried everything.

Fognini played some amazing tennis indeed.  If he were not a head case, he could be doing much better.  But you seem to like his head-case-ness, so I imagine you are happy with his as he is.

Apparently tonight is the first time ever he beat a top 5 player.

noleisthebest wrote:SB,

please relaaaaaaax and enjoy the moment FOR ONCE IN YOUR STATISTICAL LIFE!!!

LOL, I suppose we should just enjoy the result tonight. Ok then, here is to many more like it

Kim Jong-Un wrote:

Tenez wrote:

Kim Jong-Un wrote:Really poor performance from Rafa, the tournament isn't exactly important, but he has to look to build up his form.
Buenos Aires next week.

It's not poor. It's cramping.....too much lactic acid in his muscles.....cause he simply uses them way too much. Now that players are getting as fit (Fog has also biggen up), he needs to run and hit harder than even before. His muscles can't cope anymore. Vesely would beat Nadal too nowadays.

Tenez, Nadal was poor with his groundstrokes and mentally wavered... he did not lose because of lack of stamina.

Did you watch the match??? he was cramping like mad! Not surprising after his yesterday match....

summerblues wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:I really enjoyed Fognini's tennis tonight, was breath-taking at times, Nadal tried everything.

Fognini played some amazing tennis indeed.  If he were not a head case, he could be doing much better.  But you seem to like his head-case-ness, so I imagine you are happy with his as he is.

Apparently tonight is the first time ever he beat a top 5 player.

I don't see it as head-casedness...that's a bit unfairly negative.
He simply deals with his emotions openly...others bottle them and end up arranging water bottles and shorts.

The point which Fognini lost on a touched net cord just turned it around - he was a different man from then on.

Tenez wrote:

Kim Jong-Un wrote:

Tenez wrote:

Kim Jong-Un wrote:Really poor performance from Rafa, the tournament isn't exactly important, but he has to look to build up his form.
Buenos Aires next week.

It's not poor. It's cramping.....too much lactic acid in his muscles.....cause he simply uses them way too much. Now that players are getting as fit (Fog has also biggen up), he needs to run and hit harder than even before. His muscles can't cope anymore. Vesely would beat Nadal too nowadays.

Tenez, Nadal was poor with his groundstrokes and mentally wavered... he did not lose because of lack of stamina.

Did you watch the match??? he was cramping like mad! Not surprising after his yesterday match....

He was at the end, but he played poorly throughout; it's no excuse.

summerblues wrote:The point which Fognini lost on a touched net cord just turned it around - he was a different man from then on.

I missed that one, what happened exactly, was he right or not?

summerblues wrote:The point which Fognini lost on a touched net cord just turned it around - he was a different man from then on.

If not for his mental attitude he could have achieved so much more...

noleisthebest wrote:He simply deals with his emotions openly...

Nah, it is more than that. It is not so much about his outward behavior that I am talking about, it is more about his huge ups and downs in performance.

John McEnroe - and many other guys back then - could act up as much as Fognini or more, but they were not head-cases.

Murray will overtake Nadal next week I presume.

summerblues wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:SB,

please relaaaaaaax and enjoy the moment FOR ONCE IN YOUR STATISTICAL LIFE!!!

LOL, I suppose we should just enjoy the result tonight.  Ok then, here is to many more like it

That's better!
A little bit of Fabio-ness in life never goes amiss!  
Just imagine how happy he must be now.
It would be so good if he could win the whole thing tomorrow.

noleisthebest wrote:

summerblues wrote:The point which Fognini lost on a touched net cord just turned it around - he was a different man from then on.

I missed that one, what happened exactly, was he right or not?

I do not remember exactly when it happened - I think maybe in the game when he got a break down for the second time in the second set.  Until then he was playing horrible, but could do no wrong the rest of the second set thereafter.

I did not see the replay of the point so I am not 100% certain whether he really should have lost the point.  From what I saw, I thought that probably it was a good call, but not totally certain.  He definitely touched the net, but there was some chance that he may have only touched it after the second bounce, in which case he should have hit a winner and won the point.

Tenez wrote:Murray will overtake Nadal next week I presume.

Wow!
Can anyone else overtake him before RG?

I could never support a player like Fognini, my number 1 rule when supporting a player is that he/she is desperate to win at every moment. 
He'll lose to Ferrer in 3 sets I bet.

summerblues wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:He simply deals with his emotions openly...

Nah, it is more than that.  It is not so much about his outward behavior that I am talking about, it is more about his huge ups and downs in performance.

John McEnroe - and many other guys back then - could act up as much as Fognini or more, but they were not head-cases.

Yes, but what Mac was doing was often gamesmanship, Fabio is just....Fabio!

Kim Jong-Un wrote:I could never support a player like Fognini, my number 1 rule when supporting a player is that he/she is desperate to win at every moment. 
He'll lose to Ferrer in 3 sets I bet.

Yes, Nadal is an excellent competitor...but he doesn't have much choice with his style of play.

Kim Jong-Un wrote:Did you watch the match??? he was cramping like mad! Not surprising after his yesterday match....

He was at the end, but he played poorly throughout; it's no excuse.[/quote]
Told you it was physical....with Nadal everything is "physical". Lives and dies by it.

"The truth is that I lack physical continuity. I can't understand why, but I wasn't in good shape since the second set.
"I am getting tired earlier than usual and I had some cramps in several parts of my body. It's odd because in all my career I have hardly had cramp problems."

Time to find a new magic potion.

We've got three nice finals today!

Simon-Monf (repeat of that memorable USO 5 set picnic style match?, this time in front of the hime crowd!)
Fognini-Ferer - (two good clay courters flair vs ultimate grind)
Karlovic-Young

Nadal definitly reached a new phase in his career. Assuming he wasn’t lying all the time when he blamed a loss on an injury, it’s remarkable he now admits he’s just not fit enough. This is even more remarkable a day after a typical “Nadalesque” 6-0 final set.  The schedule was brutal to him but Foggy must have suffered more the day before and even the moment they woke up before the semi.
The phase Nadal enters now is that the players he meets now do have more belief. They already knew they can outplay him from scratch but they sense he doesn’t have that inhumane fitness everyday anymore. No need to be intimidated by his jumping up and down, no need to play perfect the full stretch, even top 50 players will get to see the weak side if they hang in long enough. It’s a pity Federer isn’t as old as Nadal, because he would have fixed that H2H eventually.

But i agree with SB, he’ll probably gets things straight just before RG. I even dare to say he’s favorite to win it again. His biggest threat is –magic potion or not- getting overtrained. Results like today will make him nervous and this will make him pushing even harder in preparation, maybe too hard. Nadal cramping in a second set… that sounds like overtraining.

I’m very happy for Foggy, it must be very satisfying to notice on a claycourt you’re having the upperhand against Nadal in the final part of the match.

gallery play wrote:Nadal definitly reached a new phase in his career. Assuming he wasn’t lying all the time when he blamed a loss on an injury, it’s remarkable he now admits he’s just not fit enough. This is even more remarkable a day after a typical “Nadalesque” 6-0 final set.  The schedule was brutal to him but Foggy must have suffered more the day before and even the moment they woke up before the semi.
The phase Nadal enters now is that the players he meets now do have more belief. They already knew they can outplay him from scratch but they sense he doesn’t have that inhumane fitness everyday anymore. No need to be intimidated by his jumping up and down, no need to play perfect the full stretch, even top 50 players will get to see the weak side if they hang in long enough. It’s a pity Federer isn’t as old as Nadal, because he would have fixed that H2H eventually.

I still don't understand why he has those physical lows when he managed to go without them for 10 years. Now is clearer than ever that his game is all about O2 and muscles. It looks to me the implementation of the 25s is affecting him badly. ...like it did affect him in Miami 05 (the last match he played within the rule (more or less).

But i agree with SB, he’ll probably gets things straight just before RG. I even dare to say he’s favorite to win it again. His biggest threat is –magic potion or not- getting overtrained. Results like today will make him nervous and this will make him pushing even harder in preparation, maybe too hard. Nadal cramping in a second set… that sounds like overtraining.

Once again, it is the opposition getting better more than Nadal going down. Last year he escaped very close losses thanks to a very poor opposition in this South American swing. Nadal was run close all his life actually, even on clay....nowadays he needs to run more as players have caught up on the physical side (I thought Fog was clearly bigger as well than a couple of years ago) and they can last a bit more too.

I also think Nadal is the favourite for RG...he'll get his footwork ready for it just like he did in 2013.

RG will give him another supercake draw. So annoying.

Still, if in the meantime he suffers 3-4 more losses, his confidence could start playing a role and then anything could happen...it has to one day!

Gillou&Monf are not disappointing today...wasn't sure who I'd support as I love them both...but somehow Gillou is playing with more purpose...
Just nice to see them trying to outfox each other...like children.

Nadal will have a poor season. The opposition is getting better...he is not.

Nadal is getting much worse, Fognini is the same player he was 4 years ago.

Also: Message to the people who no longer post on this forum but keep sending me unwanted messages and filling my inbox... get a job !

Soooo happy for Gillou!!!!
Underestimated...but a great, clever, complete player.

Unlike Monfils, he makes the most of what he has esp in current conditions.

Kim Jong-Un wrote:Nadal is getting much worse, Fognini is the same player he was 4 years ago.

Do you want me to list all the close matches nadal had on clay in his career? There are tons so....now that the opposition is getting better, fitter he will more even.

Tenez wrote:

Kim Jong-Un wrote:Nadal is getting much worse, Fognini is the same player he was 4 years ago.

Do you want me to list all the close matches nadal had on clay in his career? There are tons so....now that the opposition is getting better, fitter he will more even.

Yes, Nadal is renowned for having 'close matches' on clay

karlo v Young: I am happy for whoever wins that one ....which means upset for whoever loses it.

karlo is so underrated! he has good shots. His mouvement is poor but anticipation and reflexes are not bad at all. SHBH as well....You know my view on this. Impossible to have a SHBH and not be talented in this era.

Those who say Karlo is all about serve...he won the first set 63 with double break! I think he is going to run away with this final. Unlucky for Young to play an unplayable player in his second ATP final ever.

Ivo is much better than Isner...he is a natural, instinctive player.
I actually like his BH, not elegant but quite good with aggressive slicing at the net.
A very nice guy, as well.

I agree. His SHBH is not bad actually. It's not ugly to me. However he is so tall that none of his shots/move will look very good.

Fognini will find it much tougher to beat Ferrer than yesterday's 95% Nadal.

The H2H between those 2 is pretty one sided in Ferrer's favour.

Can Fognini wake up again today?

No chance. Ferru is impenetrable for Fognini.

Acapulco website seems to be listing Delpo among participants.  Surely that cannot be?