ATP 250/500 Tournaments 2018 Thread: Rio, Marseille, Delray

[noleisthebest]

This is a thread for B- list tournaments.

I know most here follow tennis because of Fedal, but there are still good players and matches going round.

This week features Shapo, Delpo, Fognini...

Judging by the scores, Thiem is proving he is going to be the king of this thread.

Sush a shame he ended up being a sweaty SBH grinder.

[Tenez]

A real grinder this Thiem. I saw a short of Monfils...managed to win from MP down v Zeballos but the ugly way pushing the ball like no future.

[noleisthebest]

I’ll be following Shapo this week.
He beat Ivo in straights yesterday.

A bit of recent info about him

http://www.sportingnews.com/ca/tennis/news/delray-beach-open-2018-denis-shapovalov-john-mcenroe-great-talent-tennis-atp-tour-ico-karlovic/187ln3m4xlhru1x5dfvbnlsbn7

[summerblues]

Thiem is a clay courter. If he can beat Rafa at RG this year, I will forgive him for only being good on clay.

[Daniel]

Thiem is a clay courter.  If he can beat Rafa at RG this year, I will forgive him for only being good on clay.

I had a lot of hope for him last year that he would finally step up and do something for Generation Never.  And I saw him play like an idiot and fall apart.  So I won't be having any hope this time, either.

[noleisthebest]

Thiem is a clay courter.  If he can beat Rafa at RG this year, I will forgive him for only being good on clay.

We need a separate thread for Who Can Beat Rafa At RG This Year.

What are the conditions:

He needs to be super fit
He mustn't be a choker
He’s got to be a le to go DTL at will.

Now, who could fit this description?

[Daniel]

Nadal isn't the same player as he used to be and suffers a lot more losses these days.  He's also been beaten there twice.  He is not invincible.  Even Isner almost beat him in Nadal's prime. So, any decent player could beat him if they play well enough.  The question is if anyone will.  Thiem last year was a joke.

Personally, I think Nadal will lose this year.

[Tenez]

Nadal isn't the same player as he used to be and suffers a lot more losses these days.  He's also been beaten there twice.  He is not invincible.  Even Isner almost beat him in Nadal's prime. So, any decent player could beat him if they play well enough.  The question is if anyone will.  Thiem last year was a joke.

Personally, I think Nadal will lose this year.

Yeah,...yeah....I decline, you decline, we decline, the world decline....The French Musqueteers were the best.

[luvsports!]

Nadal's FO struggles in 2011 were more down to not being able to adjust to the smaller, zippier balls.

[Tenez]

Nadal's FO struggles in 2011 were more down to not being able to adjust to the smaller, zippier balls.

Yep...you know your stuff! I'd say harder rubber which did not get bitten by strings that easily, hence harder to inject the spin in. Woudl have been perfect conds for Fed and his new racquet!

[Daniel]

Nadal isn't the same player as he used to be and suffers a lot more losses these days.  He's also been beaten there twice.  He is not invincible.  Even Isner almost beat him in Nadal's prime. So, any decent player could beat him if they play well enough.  The question is if anyone will.  Thiem last year was a joke.

Personally, I think Nadal will lose this year.

Yeah,...yeah....I decline, you decline, we decline, the world decline....The French Musqueteers were the best.

No, humans all decline with age.  As I keep telling you - and the stats and results bear out - but you are apparently unable to grasp biological fact. Not to mention you have the "much stronger players now" excuse at the ready - even when it's plain to everyone that this is a weak time in tennis, with even Federer whinging that these players aren't stepping up. Then again, you do believe that God created the world in 7 days.

[Tenez]

We all know you don't even believe your own theories. It's all about ego management cause you even contradict yourself by showing clips disproving your points.

[noleisthebest]

Shapo also has a knack of making tennis look easy.

[luvsports!]

Stan retires

[Tenez]

Looks like we have another Karlovic. Reilly Opeka, 20yo and 2m11cm tall like karlo and just beat jack Sock!

Amazing how those giants are doing well in tennis.

[noleisthebest]

Fed not playing Dubai.

But will play IW and Miami.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/923074/Roger-Federer-Dubai-Tennis-Championship-world-number-one

[Tenez]

Too tired.....

[noleisthebest]

Watching Krajinvic -Pouille, nice player Krajinovic.

Good tennis brain and quick feet and hands.

Could be closer to the baseline on returns.

[Tenez]

Shapo v Fritz about to start... have to find a link!

[Tenez]

Can't find teh link....but I found one with Mugu....oh I don't like Mugu!

[Tenez]

I have a new favourite in the women tennis. Kasatkina.

[Tenez]

What's impressive with Shapo is that he hits a lot of clean winners. The proper definition of talent.

[Tenez]

and he breaks....
what I am not fan of is that nervousness while seating for change of ends, pr even between serves....just reminds me of Hewitt. This is where you see the lack grace I guess.

Still an amazing talent.

[summerblues]

Thiem bageled by Verdasco. So much for him having any chance vs Rafa.

[Tenez]

I think Shapo would have a chance v Rafa on clay.

[summerblues]

I think Shapo would have a chance v Rafa on clay.

Good luck with that.

[summerblues]

What are the conditions:

He needs to be super fit
He mustn't be a choker
He’s got to be a le to go DTL at will.

Now, who could fit this description?

The player you are thinking of no longer exists.  RG will be tough.  Nobody from the youngsters that were doing ok on clay last year (mainly Zverev and Thiem) seems to be looking any better this year.

[summerblues]

I think Shapo would have a chance v Rafa on clay.

Good luck with that.

Maybe Chung might have a chance if he keeps improving.  I just do not know how good he is on clay.

[summerblues]

But we do need somebody.  Federer at 36/37 cannot be expected to be holding Rafa off singlehandedly much longer.  We are lucky Fed has been playing this well.  If Fed had been out of the picture the last 13 months, Fed's and Rafa's slam counts could have been 17-17.

[Tenez]

I think Shapo would have a chance v Rafa on clay.

Good luck with that.

Maybe Chung might have a chance if he keeps improving.  I just do not know how good he is on clay.

He troubled him for a set last year on clay.....Had a break up and looked he had the weapons until.....he lost faith.
Now he looks on his way out v Tiafoe.
The reason I have faith in Shao, over bo3 clay at least is that he has the firepower from both wings. This is crucial in beating Nadal.

[noleisthebest]

and he breaks....
what I am not fan of is that nervousness while seating for change of ends, pr even between serves....just reminds me of Hewitt. This is where you see the lack grace I guess.

Still an amazing talent.

I don’t think it’s him, it’s the people around him.

He is a jewish/russian in Canadian clothes.

His mother looks very nervy in the box.

Maybe Shapo would benefit from a nice, calm coach.


The talent is there, and he isn’t neuritic or reckless.

When you look at a young player with potential like Shapo now, you see how many things went right for Fed.

[noleisthebest]

What are the conditions:

He needs to be super fit
He mustn't be a choker
He’s got to be a le to go DTL at will.

Now, who could fit this description?

The player you are thinking of no longer exists.  RG will be tough.  Nobody from the youngsters that were doing ok on clay last year (mainly Zverev and Thiem) seems to be looking any better this year.

Uou say that, but if I learnt anything it’s that anything can happen in tennis.
Though, with Nadal, he always get protected to such a level that all eventualities get reduced to a minimum: easy draws, slow balls...

Maybe Nadal is bluffing his invicibility, too. Look how he went in Oz.

[noleisthebest]

I think Shapo would have a chance v Rafa on clay.

Well he has all he needs to, on paper...

He goes down the line easily and has done great angles off both wings.
And he is not too big a choker.

Wih him, at least there is sound hope.

[bogbrush]

Nice to hear that Federer has indicated his intention to play Dubai in 2019. It seems that retirement is still not on the horizon.

[Tenez]

Didn't he just sign a 5 year contract with Merc? $10million/year ($50M in total)?

[bogbrush]

Didn't he just sign a 5 year contract with Merc? $10million/year ($50M in total)?

Didn’t know about that, but he doesn’t necessarily have to be playing to do that does he. I heard his Rokex contract was for 20 years or something.

Anyway, screw that’s, I’m going enjoy to contemplating a 42 year old Slam winner and #1.

[Tenez]

We are on new territory here. We have not seen such old players at the top in the open era. Rosewall and Connors being the oldest but at then the game was not nearly as physical so we do not know how long he can keep it up.

More importantly how long will be able to play 5 matches in a week or 7 Bo5 in 2 weeks?

So far there does not seem to be any player out there able to play a la Djoko. That helps for sure.

[noleisthebest]

Good thing about Federer and his prospects of longevity is that he is Swiss.
The food they have there is not the fanciest stuff but very organic and wholesome.

Not to mention fresh air and “Die Berge”.
They take children to “Wald” (woods) once a week in preschool, so they all have very healthy upbringing. Sugary snacks are actually forbidden at schools.

So if anyone’s going to last it’s going to be him.

[noleisthebest]

So, Chung loses to Tiafoe and Tiafoe to play Shapo later this evening.

That will be a good match, a must win for Shapo.

In weeks like this, I see the full impact of young players never taking part in slam finals due to this long dominance of big 4/5.

They just look like eternal satelite players who never get a chance to dig their teeth in big matches and show their character. They carry on like kids, not men...you just can’t take them seriously.

And in a way they lack hunger and drive. They give up too easily.

[noleisthebest]

Don’t know why Tiafoe-Shapo is not starting, so looked at yesterday’s clip...Shapo is really, really good!



Imcan’t see what it is he can’t do yet...maybe not grind.

If I could change anything with him is I’d work on serve variation.

The groundstrokes are amazing...esp for an 18 yo!

[Tenez]

Yep...very impressive. Tif/Shapo starting at 1am....a bit too late for me.

[noleisthebest]

So, Chung loses to Tiafoe and Tiafoe to play Shapo later this evening.
That will be a good match, a must win for Shapo.

Why did I say this stupid thing!

[Tenez]

It looks like Tiafoe's pace was too much to handle for Shapo.

[noleisthebest]

Shapo’s winners are great but he needs to work on the consistency of his rallying shots.

I haven’t seen last night’s match, but from what I’ve observed so far, he sends too many short balls for today’s top standard.

 I think that’s separates him from the next level...so lighter feet and more centre baseline position, rather than relying on hs talent to pull off tough winners from corners on the run.

[Daniel]

considering his age, I think a more realistic time to see some results is 22-23ish. Usually is the case.  He'll improve all the time.

[Tenez]

considering his age, I think a more realistic time to see some results is 22-23ish. Usually is the case.  He'll improve all the time.

I think he has the talent to see results now or in the next 12 months. He is going to be 19 in a couple of months. ....I expect him to win big at 20....big things at 20....bar injuries of course.

[luvsports!]

So Tiafoe, 20, wins his first title.
Karen (good name for a guy), 21, wins his second title.
And Shortzmann, 25, wins his first 500 title. 

Good week for the young, and not so young, guys.

[Tenez]

Yes having 5 under 24 out of the 6 semi finalists was a sign of new times. And seeing those 5 youngsters being aggressive players shows that it is the way forward. Good news.

[barrystar]

But we do need somebody.  Federer at 36/37 cannot be expected to be holding Rafa off singlehandedly much longer.  We are lucky Fed has been playing this well.  If Fed had been out of the picture the last 13 months, Fed's and Rafa's slam counts could have been 17-17.

To echo what has been discussed on another thread - in my view, and rather stating the obvious, this is precisely why Fed's 'comeback' is so important in terms of how he will be viewed by posterity, and particularly that AO 2017 match.  When they eventually hang up their racquets it is the 'slam tally' that will inform who is thought of as having the greatest claim to Goatdom, and the less lop-sided the H2H, the more conclusive a Federer lead will be treated as.  So I agree, without the resurgence of Fed Nadal would be sitting on an overwhelming H2H and poised to take what would almost certainly be a conclusive lead in the slam tally this year.  It's a bit of a 'would of, could of, should of', but it's also logical that without Fed he would not have needed to extend himself so much for the #1 last year so would not be facing his same fitness problems.  Further, I suspect that Fed has rather gotten under his skin these last 12 months which never helps the mental fortitude at those crucial moments, especially if Fed is still in the draw of any HC tournament.  This week will be very interesting for Nadal watchers.

[Tenez]

The H2H is very important for Goatdom as you call it. They tell a real story, especially when the H2H carries so many matches. And Federer there had a big question to answer. The reason he played Nadal on clay more often than on other surface was an argument but a weak one.

The main reason I always gave to explain that one sided H2H was the gap of generation. 5 years at a crucial time when tennis moved from SVing and big hitters to physical long lasting thanks to this new string technology. I always stressed that Fed trained with a small racquet with natural gut strings and was now facing players who learnt with the new technology and that they even slowed the conds since Fed's youth time.

That brought a big challenge to Fed. And what is amazing is that just by adopting the new technology (a larger racquet), he managed to show that this H2H was skewed because of technology/generation gap. With simply a new racquet he can handle Nadal and in my view may never had lost a match to him....or less than a handful.

Important to note he has not lost to Murray, another RRunner, either since adopting that new racquet.

Djoko fitness remain Fed's only question, with Nadal on clay but those fights come too late for 36yo!

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