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ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

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ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by ... on Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:51 pm

Tennis years starts tomorrow.

Good field in Brisbane, with the draw again being favourable to Nadal. All dangerous players in the opposite half of the draw (Stan, Nishi, Pouille, Simon).

Brisbane draw:

http://www.brisbaneinternational.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/MDS-31_12.pdf




I watched Nadal vs Goffin for a few games today, he took ages between points, the latest is no fiddling with shorts instead it's prolonged ball bouncing, must be Moya's coaching contribution.

Either that or the hair implants have given him new mojo.

He was blasting the gizzards of the poor ball, moved well, but still passe.

I reckon Murray lost to Goffin yesterday just to avoid Nadal in the final.

Anyway....

Happy New Year! diva


Last edited by NITB on Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:14 am; edited 5 times in total

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by ... on Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:57 am

Wow, didn't realise Murray snd Djokovic were playing in Doha.
Basically everyone is playing this week, Federer in Hopman Cup, though.

Doha draw:

http://www.protennislive.com/posting/2017/451/mds.pdf


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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:49 am

Hi everyone.. Happy new year 2017.

Murray and Djokovic are playing Doha.. and rest of the field looks weak. So Murray-Djokovic final is almost guaranteed.

Brisbane has a strong field this year. Will be interesting to see it.

Federer is playing Hopman cup. I saw how casually this ITF tournament is being taken by players. Today in mixed doubles the players allowed the lines men to lay on their behalf. Maybe the match was non consequential to the points table, but..

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:57 am

Saw Murray-Raonic and Nadal-Goffin. Also Raonic-Nadal and Murray- Goffin the day before.

I don't see much improvement in Raonic to challenge Nadal or Djokovic against whom he has very poor records. He has poor volleys.. especially FH. maybe on a good day he gets it, but only on good days.. And from the BH, he can't hurt them much.

Goffin often misses the timing on  a lot of shots. He plays too flat on some shots, but timing and lack of footwork makes some of them misfire.. and that's enough against top players. He also needs to develop some net game, he currently plays everything from the baseline.

Nadal looks much the same.. His real test would have been Murray.. but its okay.

Tsonga was pathetic. He is going out of top-20 this year.

I still don't see this Raonic is ready for a slam win. Unless his draw opens completely in his favour.

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by ... on Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:25 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Saw Murray-Raonic and Nadal-Goffin. Also Raonic-Nadal and Murray- Goffin the day before.

I don't see much improvement in Raonic to challenge Nadal or Djokovic against whom he has very poor records. He has poor volleys.. especially FH. maybe on a good day he gets it, but only on good days.. And from the BH, he can't hurt them much.

Goffin often misses the timing on  a lot of shots. He plays too flat on some shots, but timing and lack of footwork makes some of them misfire.. and that's enough against top players. He also needs to develop some net game, he currently plays everything from the baseline.

I saw a bit of that match yesterday, and the conditions vere quite tricky as there were many shadows on the court.
And of course those conditions will impact the player who relies on seeing the ball early.

What other choice does he have but to play flat... he doesn't have big muscles to last from the baseline..."only" talent.

He is a great ball-striker, but has his ceiling in current era.

Who can play S&V against current RR tennis?
It's a suicide mission, only Federer (and a little bit Pouille) dares to.

Goffan has no other choice as he doesn't have a booming serve.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

Nadal looks much the same.. His real test would have been Murray.. but its okay.

I thought Nadal was trying to shorten the points, he was quote aggressive, just looked funny as he still plays with the same FH grip.

But he must have worked reeeeeealy hard to get to this stage where he can still muscle the ball like a maniac and be on the baseline or try to get inside it.

Returing yes, still far behind.

Will be difficult to beat for most, esp on clay.

Umpires seem to be tolerating his time between the points, and that is really the worst news for tennis in 2017.

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Tenez on Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:57 pm

Happy New Year All...from Hossegor. Travelling all day tomorrow to London before flying to the US on Tuesday.

Will hope to catch up with tennis soon.

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:43 am

NITB wrote:What other choice does he have but to play flat... he doesn't have big muscles to last from the baseline..."only" talent.


Hitting hard and flat is not always good, one needs variety. DTL Shots over the high part of the net can't be made a proper shot unless spin in added to keep the ball in court. So not being able to impart enough   is also lack of skill. 


Its a very wrong belief that spinning is easy. More Spin doesn't mean less skill. Spinning heavy is not easier than hitting harder. Heavy spin also needs lots of skill. It needs the exact right amount of contact with the ball and at the correct angle. Else the ball will either not cross the net or will go long. 




So all court skills need to be learnt. Goffin for now lacks ball control quite a bit, whether spin or flat. And thats why he misses so many balls either long or wide. His shot selection is also his problem. Perhaps a better coach can help him.

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by ... on Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:59 am

I am talking about "work" on the ball, not just topspin.
Most players have the same FH, grip etc.

The difference is in talent as well as guts.

Any monkey can train and learn to muscle the ball, but few can take the ball early.

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:12 am

Can you define what is 'work' on the the ball?

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by ... on Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:17 am

Work is the extra brushing/lifting you impart on the ball, which is taken late.
Nobody hits the ball flat any more. It's a myth gone with old strings and eastern grip.

Flat these days just means no muscling, no extra brushing/lift on the ball. That ball is fast and skids.
Nadal's "worked" ball dips and jumps off on the baseline. He is the most extreme case.
It requires big muscles and is very sweaty.
Best "tool" for percentage players.


No talent needed, just years of practice.

Opposite of what Federer (or Goffin) does.

And of course, timing is everything.
The one who sends the ball fastest with least sweat/muscles is the most talented. Esp,if they are gutsy amd aim for the lines from thr word go.

Delpo times his FH well but hits it hard, too, same as Stan onnhis BH.

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by ... on Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:09 pm

Tenez wrote:Happy New Year All...from Hossegor. Travelling all day tomorrow to London before flying to the US on Tuesday.

Will hope to catch up with tennis soon.

Bon voyage!

You'd be happy to know, Chung is back and bagelling again.

Playing his old friend Coric today.

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by ... on Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:42 pm

Well, he is back!

I saw highlights of Hopman Cup, GB-Switzerland.

Just a few points, but my, oh my......that man is something else.

He just is. 
What a player....

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Veejay on Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:14 pm

NITB wrote:Well, he is back!

I saw highlights of Hopman Cup, GB-Switzerland.

Just a few points, but my, oh my......that man is something else.

He just is. 
What a player....
nice to see him back on court and competing again eh?
he looks like he is on good shape,moving relly well
i think that he will have a good run at the AO

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Tenez on Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:17 pm

Good result from Lucas....but he was 0/5 down in that first set. And again Chung getting the better of Coric..
.proving he is a top 50 at least.

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by summerblues on Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:54 am

Happy belated New Year to all!

And tennis is back - hurray!  Everyone already in action.  Nole had a slow start to his first match of the year but then recovered.

I just hope Fed/Nole/Rafa/Andy are not all top 4 at YE.

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Tenez on Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:37 am

Happy New Year SB. ..that would ne sad.....should they still lead the pack.

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by ... on Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:17 pm

Not the best day Sad


Fed & Chung lost, Pouille retired....




Saw a few points of Murray- G. Melzer (who plays the exact same as Murray), it was so boring I cannot it describe it.

Also saw highlights of Fed-Zverev.


Don't know how Fed managed to lose. 


Zverev looks so mechanical and dull compared to him.
Just a tall basher.

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Tenez on Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:52 pm

Yes bad day......and kashnakov losing to Karlovic.

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by ... on Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:56 am

Loved this!


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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Jahu on Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:26 pm

Fed should wake the F up.

Djoko looks off with this Stepanek dinosour

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:11 am

NITB wrote:Work is the extra brushing/lifting you impart on the ball, which is taken late.
Nobody hits the ball flat any more. It's a myth gone with old strings and eastern grip.

Flat these days just means no muscling, no extra brushing/lift on the ball. That ball is fast and skids.
Nadal's "worked" ball dips and jumps off on the baseline. He is the most extreme case.
It requires big muscles and is very sweaty.
Best "tool" for percentage players.


No talent needed, just years of practice.

Opposite of what Federer (or Goffin) does.

And of course, timing is everything.
The one who sends the ball fastest with least sweat/muscles is the most talented. Esp,if they are gutsy amd aim for the lines from thr word go.

Delpo times his FH well but hits it hard, too, same as Stan onnhis BH.

This extra brushing/lift is not easy and anyone just with muscles can't execute it. You need to know how much extra you need to put depending on multiple factors. You need precise timing, the right spot for racquet contact and the right amount of rotation. You need to know that right amount of lift for the ball to rise over the net and then bring it down. They all need skill and not bare muscles. 

You need muscles to be able to do that and get the ball moving @ 150k/h. 
 
It takes skill to execute it right. Its not easy as you are trying to make it look like. Else everyone would be at least 1/4 as successful as Nadal.

Nobody hits absolute flat, nobody ever did simple because its practically impossible to do it. But some use more than the other. 

In any case players who hit flat and hard are NOT more skilled than the ones who can impact great spin.


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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:12 am

Raonic struggling against Nadal.. as usual.

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:18 am

[size=44]Djokovic Inspires The Future In Doha; Nadal Cuddles Koala[/size]

What sort of headline is this. Djokovic is inspiring the future tennis players. And what is Nadal doing by cuddling the poor animal...

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/stars-2017-brisbane-chennai-doha

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by legendkillar on Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:22 am

Nadal a break down in the third. He has absolutely hit the wall in this one.

Raonic at times has the demeanour of a stroppy teenager angry at his parents.

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Tenez on Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:12 pm

In the first half of his career Nadal was winning lots of matches he should/could have lost. Now it's payback time. Today and USO 16 typically.

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Tenez on Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:14 pm

So it's going to be Djoko v Murray...did not see any play....what do you think ?

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Jahu on Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:47 pm

"Sir" Andy looks more fresh, Djoko saved 5 MPs today, but we seen Djoko many times play a crappy week then raise it in the Final.

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by ... on Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:40 pm

Tenez wrote:So it's going to be Djoko v Murray...did not see any play....what do you think ?

I got the anual Eurosport subscription for just £19.99 last week (offer lasts till Jan 31st) They are showing all tournaments this week, plus many replays, but I still don't have much desire to watch tennis.

All I can manage is a few points here and there.

From what I have seen good players are better boring ones even more boring.

Murray's tennis is simply ugly. There is just nothing I like about it.
Nole is st least trying FHs DTL...but still same game and it looks an even weirder FH motion atm.

Not a fan of young Zverev's game.

I just had a look st Eurosport to see if I could catch replay of Federer vs Gasquet, but they are showing the beginning of Djokovic-Verdasco.

Stands are about 30-40% full.

That also answers rotla's question about the article on ATP website with Nadal cuddling koalas...

and may I add my eternal tennis cheer: Long live SBH and all who play it! Bubbly Magic


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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by ... on Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:44 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
NITB wrote:Work is the extra brushing/lifting you impart on the ball, which is taken late.
Nobody hits the ball flat any more. It's a myth gone with old strings and eastern grip.

Flat these days just means no muscling, no extra brushing/lift on the ball. That ball is fast and skids.
Nadal's "worked" ball dips and jumps off on the baseline. He is the most extreme case.
It requires big muscles and is very sweaty.
Best "tool" for percentage players.


No talent needed, just years of practice.

Opposite of what Federer (or Goffin) does.

And of course, timing is everything.
The one who sends the ball fastest with least sweat/muscles is the most talented. Esp,if they are gutsy amd aim for the lines from thr word go.

Delpo times his FH well but hits it hard, too, same as Stan onnhis BH.

This extra brushing/lift is not easy and anyone just with muscles can't execute it. You need to know how much extra you need to put depending on multiple factors. You need precise timing, the right spot for racquet contact and the right amount of rotation. You need to know that right amount of lift for the ball to rise over the net and then bring it down. They all need skill and not bare muscles. 

You need muscles to be able to do that and get the ball moving @ 150k/h. 
 
It takes skill to execute it right. Its not easy as you are trying to make it look like. Else everyone would be at least 1/4 as successful as Nadal.

Nobody hits absolute flat, nobody ever did simple because its practically impossible to do it. But some use more than the other. 

In any case players who hit flat and hard are NOT more skilled than the ones who can impact great spin.

I disagree completely.

What you are saying is that Federer is the same as Nadal.

It's million times more difficult to take the ball early than to stand miles behind the baseline.
Nadal without his fake steroid muscles would be nowhere, can't you see that?

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by ... on Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:33 am

Tenez wrote:So it's going to be Djoko v Murray...did not see any play....what do you think ?
Oh I see, you want a tip for betting!

Odds are great for Nole, so I put £30 on him.

That's it for me. If I win I'll keep betting with the profit and this time next year I'll be a millionaire diva...if I lose...I am done for 2017. Seeing Double

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:33 am

NITB wrote:What you are saying is that Federer is the same as Nadal.


It's million times more difficult to take the ball early than to stand miles behind the baseline.

No. never said that. But they are both skilled in their own ways and for their game styles.

 Fed is attacking player, likes to take time away from the opponent and go for winners with deadly accuracy. Such game style needs the players to take the ball early. And is better than anyone at that.


Nadal is mostly defensive player, doesn't like to be making errors going for winners. Rather play solid trying not to give a bad ball and then attempt a counter pass. He can induce great spin on ball which makes very difficult to attack, especially SHBH players like Fed. But this weapon is lethal against everyone, else he wouldn't have do much success on tour. This play needs extreme fitness and generating that spin needs power. But without skill, it can't be executed.


Fed 17 slams, Nadal 14. They both hold numerous records. Fed's game can't be million miles ahead of Nadal's with those stats.

If it was like Fed 17, Nadal 2 then perhaps you could say that.

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Tenez on Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:19 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Fed 17 slams, Nadal 14. They both hold numerous records. Fed's game can't be million miles ahead of Nadal's with those stats.

If it was like Fed 17, Nadal 2 then perhaps you could say that.

To me it's a bit comparing a plane with a bird. A plane does things better than a bird....yet a plane will never be able to fly as safely and efficiently as a bird. But above all a plane is a team work and is nothing without his team. A bird doesn't need anybody.

So in other words, Nadal without "his team" woudl have had 0 slams. Federer more like 30 slams.

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by ... on Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:49 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
NITB wrote:What you are saying is that Federer is the same as Nadal.


It's million times more difficult to take the ball early than to stand miles behind the baseline.

No. never said that. But they are both skilled in their own ways and for their game styles.

 Fed is attacking player, likes to take time away from the opponent and go for winners with deadly accuracy. Such game style needs the players to take the ball early. And is better than anyone at that.


Nadal is mostly defensive player, doesn't like to be making errors going for winners. Rather play solid trying not to give a bad ball and then attempt a counter pass. He can induce great spin on ball which makes very difficult to attack, especially SHBH players like Fed. But this weapon is lethal against everyone, else he wouldn't have do much success on tour. This play needs extreme fitness and generating that spin needs power. But without skill, it can't be executed.


Fed 17 slams, Nadal 14. They both hold numerous records. Fed's game can't be million miles ahead of Nadal's with those stats.

If it was like Fed 17, Nadal 2 then perhaps you could say that.

Hehe rotla, you seem to be trying to learn to muscle the ball...and finding it tough.
Forget about that "skill".
"Just" take the ball early. Winking


No player wants to play defensive tennis, including Nadal, but because he can't take the ball early (ie, doesn't have the talent) Tony found the way for him which worked for some time (but doesn't any more).

Nadal would love to be able to play like Federer. Everyone on tour would. They simply can't, so do whatever they can in order to make a career and win.

Remember Murray's words he said through tears after his Wimbledon final loss in 2012:

"I can cry like Roger,  I wish I could play like him"

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by summerblues on Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:29 pm

Whenever I sit down to watch Djokovic vs Murray I am reminded how dull their matches are.  So I think that is it from me...

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Tenez on Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:30 pm

From the first game Djoko is playing bad but I still think he can this easily and that will boost his confidence tremendously.

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Tenez on Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:30 pm

summerblues wrote:Whenever I sit down to watch Djokovic vs Murray I am reminded how dull their matches are.  So I think that is it from me...

Shotwise it's awful. My club level shots.....but fitnesswise......a different world.

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Jahu on Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:38 pm

Djoko already on MTO at 1:1, some blister there, to give himself and his 4 fans a reasons when he loses today.

Come on Andy crush himmmm

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Tenez on Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:47 pm

Jahu wrote:Djoko already on MTO at 1:1, some blister there, to give himself and his 4 fans a reasons when he loses today.

Come on Andy crush himmmm
Don't worry, Djoko won't need excuses....He will win.

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Jahu on Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:52 pm

I thought we could be friends in 2017, but it ain't happening  Laugh

All hail Lord Andy, Djoko sucks. smiley

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Tenez on Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:59 pm

Jahu wrote:I thought we could be friends in 2017, but it ain't happening  Laugh

All hail Lord Andy, Djoko sucks. smiley

LOL! Both suck!

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by ... on Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:10 pm

I've been watching the match quietly and indifferently, but that FHDTL for the set point drew the fistpump and MAJSTOREEEEE from me!

I didn't know I still had it in me Yikes

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Tenez on Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:22 pm

Djoko can struggle v Verdasco or other hard hitters but he has to be in a very dreadful form to lose to Murray. The Scot is easy meat for him and I still can't explain how he surrendered his number 1 spot to him in that WTF final.

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Daniel on Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:33 pm

Tenez wrote:
summerblues wrote:Whenever I sit down to watch Djokovic vs Murray I am reminded how dull their matches are.  So I think that is it from me...

Shotwise it's awful. My club level shots.....but fitnesswise......a different world.

You keep saying this, but Federer dominated the calandar like no other person ever has and holds a ton of the longevity records. All professional players are able to do what those two do - and many have. Murray and Djok are different simply because they are better at retrieval and more flexible and have better reaction times than most lower rank players.  
It's no special "fitness" ability.

And what about Jimmy Connors?  What's that sound?  Sounds like a house of cards collapsing.

Or was he a serial doper too?

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Tenez on Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:41 pm

Murray is clearly on the special sauce.....he wins all those long rallies despite being so much heavier. Defies logic.

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Tenez on Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:44 pm

The falls in slomo of Djoko are so funny. He really looks he is made of rubber.

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Jahu on Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:55 pm

Yeah he is the drama queen, held his head after as it was crushed on the wall, when he barely touched the court with head.

He has this belief that acting injured, falling for no reason etc and wining the match after, makes him a superhero, guess he liked comics when young.

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Jahu on Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:11 pm

Super play this 5:4 game, 4 MP i think Djoko and Andy breaks him.

Come on Andy take itttttt

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Tenez on Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:20 pm

I am curious to see how much courts those 2 are covering....it's clearly getting absurd!

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Jahu on Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:25 pm

These 2 gits can play 7 hours and go straight for a dinner date.

Magic dust.

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by bogbrush on Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:22 pm

Ridiculous retrieval. Boring beyond belief.

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Re: ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray

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