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Australian Open 2015: Matches of the day: Day 9 27-Jan-2015

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:58 am

noleisthebest wrote:Just started watching.
There is something eerily mature and steely in Kyrg's dmeanour.

A born showman, as well.

Murray...well, same as always...scintillating volleys in full flow!
My grandma would play with more guts than him.

Too much of a showman...He is blowing this TB in style...

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:01 am

Murray celebrates winning the 2nd set with a fist-pump and a high knee leg kick a la Nadal Australian Open 2015: Matches of the day: Day 9 27-Jan-2015 - Page 3 2355573927

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Post by Tenez on Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:01 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Tenez wrote:a bit disappointed by Kyr's loopy groundstrokes.

Reminds you of Nadal?
Not as bad but against Murray he has no chance playing this safe game.

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Post by BEL19VE on Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:02 am

noleisthebest wrote:Murray celebrates winning the 2nd set with a fist-pump and a high knee leg kick a la Nadal Australian Open 2015: Matches of the day: Day 9 27-Jan-2015 - Page 3 2355573927
Well someone has to do it now he's out Winking

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Post by Tenez on Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:07 am

again poor FHs from Kyr....too tall to have a poor FH like that!

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Post by Tenez on Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:15 am

Kyr hits 2 Fhs which coudl have allowed him to take the net....but only did it on the 3rd FH.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:21 am

Tenez wrote:Kyr hits 2 Fhs which coudl have allowed him to take the net....but only did it on the 3rd FH.
Well, you can see how he's been taught to play...plus that must be at least a 100" racquet, looks huge.
So far the big serve was enough.
But now that he is having to play bigger fish he'll have to start adding to his game, maybe change the grip/swing.
He's not a pusher.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:27 am

Looks like he's given up the fight after losing that TB...definitely spent, anyway.
Just trying to exit in style now...in accordance with his haircut Winking

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Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:30 am

noleisthebest wrote:Looks like he's given up the fight after losing that TB...definitely spent, anyway.
Just trying to exit in style now...in accordance with his haircut Winking

He break Murray... to level things.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:34 am

That was more courtesy of Murray dropping focus temporarily...

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Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:39 am

Its done.. Murray in semis.. looks charged up..

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:40 am

Actually, Kyrgios in only 2cm taller than Murray!

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Post by Tenez on Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:43 am

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:Kyr hits 2 Fhs which coudl have allowed him to take the net....but only did it on the 3rd FH.
Well, you can see how he's been taught to play...plus that must be at least a 100" racquet, looks huge.
So far the big serve was enough.
But now that he is having to play bigger fish he'll have to start adding to his game, maybe change the grip/swing.
He's not a pusher.
Yes at first i thought he woudl be crushed by Andy but in fact had he come more often to the net on key points I think he coudl have troubled Murray more.

Kyr played a poor match tactically...though to be expected at his age...just bizarre that his coach did not ask him to try. Many of Murray's returns were floating and with Kyr's mouvement and height he could have volleyed many of those.

Anyway..Berdych Murray shoudl be interesting and the winner will have an extra day rest v Djoko ...or Nishi.....and they will need it. For me the final is Djoko v Nishi.

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Post by Tenez on Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:43 am

noleisthebest wrote:Actually, Kyrgios in only 2cm taller than Murray!

It's a lot at that altitude!

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Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:48 am

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:Kyr hits 2 Fhs which coudl have allowed him to take the net....but only did it on the 3rd FH.
Well, you can see how he's been taught to play...plus that must be at least a 100" racquet, looks huge.
So far the big serve was enough.
But now that he is having to play bigger fish he'll have to start adding to his game, maybe change the grip/swing.
He's not a pusher.
Yes at first i thought he woudl be crushed by Andy but in fact had he come more often to the net on key points I think he coudl have troubled Murray more.

Kyr played a poor match tactically...though to be expected at his age...just bizarre that his coach did not ask him to try. Many of Murray's returns were floating and with Kyr's mouvement and height he could have volleyed many of those.

Anyway..Berdych Murray shoudl be interesting and the winner will have an extra day rest v Djoko ...or Nishi.....and they will need it. For me the final is Djoko v Nishi.

You think Stan will have no chance vs Nishikori?

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Post by Tenez on Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:53 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:You think Stan will have no chance vs Nishikori?

I am afraid so. Nish might lose the first set but that's it.

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Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:56 am

Tenez wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:You think Stan will have no chance vs Nishikori?

I am afraid so. Nish might lose the first set but that's it.
Alright... we shall see that tomorrow.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:57 am

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:Kyr hits 2 Fhs which coudl have allowed him to take the net....but only did it on the 3rd FH.
Well, you can see how he's been taught to play...plus that must be at least a 100" racquet, looks huge.
So far the big serve was enough.
But now that he is having to play bigger fish he'll have to start adding to his game, maybe change the grip/swing.
He's not a pusher.
Yes at first i thought he woudl be crushed by Andy but in fact had he come more often to the net on key points I think he coudl have troubled Murray more.

Kyr played a poor match tactically...though to be expected at his age...just bizarre that his coach did not ask him to try. Many of Murray's returns were floating and with Kyr's mouvement and height he could have volleyed many of those.

Anyway..Berdych Murray shoudl be interesting and the winner will have an extra day rest v Djoko ...or Nishi.....and they will need it. For me the final is Djoko v Nishi.

I think he simply didn't have guts to do it as it's an unchartered territory for him and he must have been scared of being passed by Murray (who did pass him brilliantly once in fact) and I think he's still young/worried about losing face type.

He's got the potential but now needs to work hard and be very disciplined and I am not sure he is capable of it.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:00 am

Murray played well for his standards.

Was it just me or did he not look worried in the least about playing Berd next when Courier asked him about it?
As he's already seeing himself in the final.

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Post by Tenez on Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:01 am

Yes but on many occasions, he coudl see many of the Murray returns were floaters cause he had hit a good shot. He had plenty of time to come to the net and finish the point. Something Pouille was doing very well.

But he will learn...hopefully....It will come with a proper haircut I guess.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:01 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Tenez wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:You think Stan will have no chance vs Nishikori?

I am afraid so. Nish might lose the first set but that's it.
Alright... we shall see that tomorrow.

Don't stress, rotla Winking
That's just Tenez jinxing.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:02 am

Tenez wrote:Yes but on many occasions, he coudl see many of the Murray returns were floaters cause he had hit a good shot. He had plenty of time to come to the net and finish the point. Something Pouille was doing very well.

But he will learn...hopefully....It will come with a proper haircut I guess.

Pouille is much more aggressive and complete than Kyrgios.
And plays fearlessly.

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Post by Tenez on Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:03 am

noleisthebest wrote:Murray played well for his standards.

Was it just me or did he not look worried in the least about playing Berd next when Courier asked him about it?
As he's already seeing himself in the final.
But it was easy since Kyr was only feeding him with average groundshots.

The semi shoudl be interesting. For some reasons Murray often struggled v Berdych...and I never really understood quite why.

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Post by Tenez on Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:05 am

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:Yes but on many occasions, he coudl see many of the Murray returns were floaters cause he had hit a good shot. He had plenty of time to come to the net and finish the point. Something Pouille was doing very well.

But he will learn...hopefully....It will come with a proper haircut I guess.

Pouille is much more aggressive and complete than Kyrgios.
And plays fearlessly.

He is a year older.....so let's see next year.

I heard that Kyr is the first teenager to have played 2 1/4F since Roger Federer. Something Nadal did not obvisouly as until the conds slowed down he coudl only be successful on clay.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:06 am

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Murray played well for his standards.

Was it just me or did he not look worried in the least about playing Berd next when Courier asked him about it?
As he's already seeing himself in the final.
But it was easy since Kyr was only feeding him with average groundshots.

The semi shoudl be interesting. For some reasons Murray often struggled v Berdych...and I never really understood quite why.

Berd does not fear Murray, and Murray feeds on his opponent's fear to keep him going.

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Post by Tenez on Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:11 am

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Murray played well for his standards.

Was it just me or did he not look worried in the least about playing Berd next when Courier asked him about it?
As he's already seeing himself in the final.
But it was easy since Kyr was only feeding him with average groundshots.

The semi shoudl be interesting. For some reasons Murray often struggled v Berdych...and I never really understood quite why.

Berd does not fear Murray, and Murray feeds on his opponent's fear to keep him going.

mmmm...I still predict a convincing win for Murray!

Shoot I am giving too many tips for our game! Whistle

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:14 am

Tenez wrote:He is a year older.....so let's see next year.

I heard that Kyr is the first teenager to have played 2 1/4F since Roger Federer. Something Nadal did not obvisouly as until the conds slowed down he coudl only be successful on clay.
Yes he's older, but "started" younger.
That serve must have made it much easier for him to cut through competition at lower ranking than for Pouille.

It's a weapon and he can build a big game around it, we'll gave to wait and see.
I just hope he doesn't choose Raomic's rallying route....

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:15 am

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Murray played well for his standards.

Was it just me or did he not look worried in the least about playing Berd next when Courier asked him about it?
As he's already seeing himself in the final.
But it was easy since Kyr was only feeding him with average groundshots.

The semi shoudl be interesting. For some reasons Murray often struggled v Berdych...and I never really understood quite why.

Berd does not fear Murray, and Murray feeds on his opponent's fear to keep him going.

mmmm...I still predict a convincing win for Murray!

Shoot I am giving too many tips for our game! Whistle
I don't even know what their H2H is.
Would be cool for Berd to beat Murray with Murray's ex-coach on his bench.

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Post by BEL19VE on Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:08 pm

Tenez wrote:

I heard that Kyr is the first teenager to have played 2 1/4F since Roger Federer. Something Nadal did not obvisouly as until the conds slowed down he coudl only be successful on clay.
Well you heard wrong, Nadal also reached 2 QFs as a teenager.

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Post by Tenez on Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:20 pm

I think he turned 20 by his second 1/4F at the FO...by a few days!

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Post by BEL19VE on Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:21 pm

Tenez wrote:I think he turned 20 by his second 1/4F at the FO...by a few days!
Pretty sure his birthday was after the quarter finals?

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Post by Tenez on Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:32 pm

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/tennis/french/2006-06-07-day-11_x.htm

Fed and Kyr did it on 2 different slams! More versatile. Funny as your main argument about Nadal declining is that he played earlier than federer. The fact is that federer was going through further in 5 setters than Nadal before 20!

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Post by BEL19VE on Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:37 pm

Ah yes, my bad, Nadal reached R4 when he was a teen but not the QF.

Only a matter of a few days though, don't think it's massively important.

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Post by Tenez on Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:43 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:Ah yes, my bad, Nadal reached R4 when he was a teen but not the QF.

Only a matter of a few days though, don't think it's massively important.

Don't think so either. If he played the 1/4F on the 7th...the 4th round must have been the day after his 20th birthday.....but you are right not important.....excepte que fed was playing at a higher level....earlier....on all surfaces.....not just clay.

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Post by BEL19VE on Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:10 pm

Nadal actually won a slam as a teen though...

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:17 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:Nadal actually won a slam as a teen though...

He sure didn't look like one....

Australian Open 2015: Matches of the day: Day 9 27-Jan-2015 - Page 3 Sport-graphics-2005_724209a


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Post by Tenez on Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:28 pm

yes we tend to forget how muscly he was for his young age. A whole game based on the power of spin on a slow court.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:32 pm

Yes, Becker was also quite developed for his age when he won Wimbledon at 17, but did not look so fake and pumped like Nadal.

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Post by truffin1 on Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:09 pm

Although a great 5 set record, I find it curious Nadal has only been able to come back from two sets down to win 3 times in his career....  

Compare to Federer who has been criticized for his avg 5 set record yet he's come back 9 times on less attempts-  2nd most in history.

Is it's Feds ability to go into plan b,c,d and Nadal only able to make minor adjustments when his normal plan is being demolished?

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Post by Tenez on Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:19 pm

truffin1 wrote:Is it's Feds ability to go into plan b,c,d and Nadal only able to make minor adjustments when his normal plan is being demolished?

I think there are 3 reasons why fed has a pretty good record of coming back from 2 sets down.

- The main reason is that the times he was asked to play 5 setters are almost always down to his back issues (or like in Wimby 2010) due to some injuries. While playing, the adrenaline and warming of muscles allows him to play better as the match goes on. That was very obvious in 2012 when he experienced bad back at FO12 and Wimby 12. He won quite a few 4 and 5 setters there being a set or 2 down at first.

- Second reason are the fact that his shots are hurting his opponent enough to drain the energy out of them. He is the only player I believe who has won 5 setters v Nadal cause like in Miami 05 and Wimby 07 Nadal simply ran out of gas....while v other players Nadal woudl have arrived in the 5th with a bit more gas. ....I guess except v Djoko who manages to kill Nadal usually in 4.

- Last reason i think is the fact he is very strong mentally but versus Murray, Djko and Nadal, his mental strength were a bit useless as fitness was the determining factor for winning in 5...and fitness wise he is not close to those 3.

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Post by truffin1 on Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:57 pm

Tenez wrote:
truffin1 wrote:Is it's Feds ability to go into plan b,c,d and Nadal only able to make minor adjustments when his normal plan is being demolished?

I think there are 3 reasons why fed has a pretty good record of coming back from 2 sets down.

- The main reason is that the times he was asked to play 5 setters are almost always down to his back issues (or like in Wimby 2010) due to some injuries. While playing, the adrenaline and warming of muscles allows him to play better as the match goes on. That was very obvious in 2012 when he experienced bad back at FO12 and Wimby 12. He won quite a few 4 and 5 setters there being a set or 2 down at first.

- Second reason are the fact that his shots are hurting his opponent enough to drain the energy out of them. He is the only player I believe who has won 5 setters v Nadal cause like in Miami 05 and Wimby 07 Nadal simply ran out of gas....while v other players Nadal woudl have arrived in the 5th with a bit more gas. ....I guess except v Djoko who manages to kill Nadal usually in 4.

- Last reason i think is the fact he is very strong mentally but versus Murray, Djko and Nadal, his mental strength were a bit useless as fitness was the determining factor for winning in 5...and fitness wise he is not close to those 3.


why do you see Nadal as not beign able to come back 2 sets down as much-- esp given the warrior never say die hype given to him by his fans?

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Post by Autumnleaf on Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:49 pm

A day to enjoy at the AO. Love Blush I thought that Berdych might be in with a chance, but wasn't courageous enough to bet on it. Berdych was killing the Nadal shots/ serve today. His movement still not elite, but enough against this Nadal. If he makes final, he better hope he won't meet Djokovic there though. 

Like many of you, I had the feeling that Berdych got very nervous and might have lost it in five, had he faulted more in the tiebreak, but fortunately Nadal helped him out a bit with his rather hopeless returns today.

Nadal has lost only 5 fivesetters in his career:

L. Hewitt - AO 05: - 7-5 3-6 1-6 7-6(3) 6-2
R. Federer - Miami 05:  2-6 6-7(4) 7-6(5) 6-3 6-1
R. Federer - Wimbledon 07: 7-6(7) 4-6 7-6(3) 2-6 6-2
N. Djokovic - AO 12: 2-6 6-7(4) 7-6(5) 6-3 6-1
L. Rosol - Wimbledon 12: 6-7(9) 6-4 6-4 2-6 6-4

He managed to come back from 2 sets down 3 times, twice at Wimbledon (2006 R 64 vs. Kendrick, 2007 R 16 vs. Youzhny) and in the Madrid F 2005 vs. Ljubicic. I always found it interesting how much he struggled in Wimbledon even during his supposedly best years on grass in the early rounds.

Disappointed about the ladies' results, didn't even watch the matches because I got spoilt.

Kyrgios - Murray... Nadal's status as pet boy of the ATP seems to be in serious danger here. If Kyrgios can build on his results he'll usurp it. He has the star potential they were looking for in the youngsters and the game to back it up. The match vs. Murray showed, where he must improve. His handling of the Murray slice was very mediocre. The look he got on different shots + the Murray defense increased his UFE rate. I also think he might have been exhausted from his previous matches, he had already played 2 fivesetters and 1 foursetter.

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Post by Autumnleaf on Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:25 pm

What's worrying about Nadal's QF loss: the earlier he bumped out of the AO, the better the rest of his year usually is. Worst year 2009 when he lost even the FO; 2012, 2014 no majors besides FO, 2013 skipped AO, 2008 SF, 2010, 2011, 2007 QF

I mention it because there is some speculation that it is difficult to integrate AO into a cycle, so they got to chose which majors his team want to attack.

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Post by Tenez on Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:11 am

truffin1 wrote:
Tenez wrote:
truffin1 wrote:Is it's Feds ability to go into plan b,c,d and Nadal only able to make minor adjustments when his normal plan is being demolished?

I think there are 3 reasons why fed has a pretty good record of coming back from 2 sets down.

- The main reason is that the times he was asked to play 5 setters are almost always down to his back issues (or like in Wimby 2010) due to some injuries. While playing, the adrenaline and warming of muscles allows him to play better as the match goes on. That was very obvious in 2012 when he experienced bad back at FO12 and Wimby 12. He won quite a few 4 and 5 setters there being a set or 2 down at first.

- Second reason are the fact that his shots are hurting his opponent enough to drain the energy out of them. He is the only player I believe who has won 5 setters v Nadal cause like in Miami 05 and Wimby 07 Nadal simply ran out of gas....while v other players Nadal woudl have arrived in the 5th with a bit more gas. ....I guess except v Djoko who manages to kill Nadal usually in 4.

- Last reason i think is the fact he is very strong mentally but versus Murray, Djko and Nadal, his mental strength were a bit useless as fitness was the determining factor for winning in 5...and fitness wise he is not close to those 3.


why do you see Nadal as not beign able to come back 2 sets down as much-- esp given the warrior never say die hype given to him by his fans?
I don't really know. I thought he had a good record in coming back but if he failed to reverse the trend after being 2 sets down, I'd think it is essentially due to the fact that his 1D game simply does not allow him to find alternatives to win. His only strength has been to tire the opposition. If the opposition can go for his shots the match, like all other retrievers, is not in their racquets.

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Post by Tenez on Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:14 am

Autumnleaf wrote:Kyrgios - Murray... Nadal's status as pet boy of the ATP seems to be in serious danger here. If Kyrgios can build on his results he'll usurp it. He has the star potential they were looking for in the youngsters and the game to back it up. The match vs. Murray showed, where he must improve. His handling of the Murray slice was very mediocre. The look he got on different shots + the Murray defense increased his UFE rate. I also think he might have been exhausted from his previous matches, he had already played 2 fivesetters and 1 foursetter.
Good point. The TDs might even speed up the courts to suit him. That woudl be interesting.

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Post by truffin1 on Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:45 pm

Tenez wrote:
truffin1 wrote:
Tenez wrote:
truffin1 wrote:Is it's Feds ability to go into plan b,c,d and Nadal only able to make minor adjustments when his normal plan is being demolished?

I think there are 3 reasons why fed has a pretty good record of coming back from 2 sets down.

- The main reason is that the times he was asked to play 5 setters are almost always down to his back issues (or like in Wimby 2010) due to some injuries. While playing, the adrenaline and warming of muscles allows him to play better as the match goes on. That was very obvious in 2012 when he experienced bad back at FO12 and Wimby 12. He won quite a few 4 and 5 setters there being a set or 2 down at first.

- Second reason are the fact that his shots are hurting his opponent enough to drain the energy out of them. He is the only player I believe who has won 5 setters v Nadal cause like in Miami 05 and Wimby 07 Nadal simply ran out of gas....while v other players Nadal woudl have arrived in the 5th with a bit more gas. ....I guess except v Djoko who manages to kill Nadal usually in 4.

- Last reason i think is the fact he is very strong mentally but versus Murray, Djko and Nadal, his mental strength were a bit useless as fitness was the determining factor for winning in 5...and fitness wise he is not close to those 3.


why do you see Nadal as not beign able to come back 2 sets down as much-- esp given the warrior never say die hype given to him by his fans?
I don't really know. I thought he had a good record in coming back but if he failed to reverse the trend after being 2 sets down, I'd think it is  essentially due to the fact that his 1D game simply does not allow him to find alternatives to win. His only strength has been to tire the opposition. If the opposition can go for his shots the match, like all other retrievers, is not in their racquets.

I think it's that-   if he gets two sets down- he's usually being blown off the court and the opponent takes him out in 3 or 4 sets- taking Rafa's ablility to outlast and grind them down in a long 5 setter.  IT's where it's more of an even match and Nadal can keep it close until the 5th where his fitness wins out.   Kind of funny though- the ultimate warrior test in Tennis- coming back from 2 sets down in a 5 setter-  Federer is 3 times better than Nadal  yet Nadal has the warrior rep.

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