Australian Open 2014 : MOTD : Day 4

Good stuff though, this is some more material that I can parody (which will also ironically send you in you furious detective mood trying to 'expose' my parodies... pmsl)

Chance of you immediately messaging your friends to back you up and attack me have just gone up by 42% (approximately).

Tenez wrote:Truffin what makes you such a passionate fan of Federer? His game I guess but the way you follow him there must be something else.

well i'll give you the long answer to partly answer amerits obnoxious mocking... just when I was interested in something she wrote.

My career was in sports marketing/promotion. That was my life for over 30 years and I worked with some of the very best- mostly in boxing, nba. Tennis was my passion personally, but my company did not work with tennis players.  Because of my background, I find marketing, measurables, reason for popularity fascinating and creating this interest was what I was best at. So I pour over stats, love to analyze ratings of tv shows, boxoffice grosses you name it...  So when it comes to Federer or tennis in general- I also like and am informed on that stats and also the marketing side of it...  To answer Nole- it's not because I need my guy to be the best like most fanatics like Amerit, it's because caring about who sold the most socks is what my career was about and still a passion.

I also have a semi photographic memory and love debate forums as I can pull up from memory what someone wrote a year ago or something I read or heard a year ago-- esp if its something I'm interested in.

My company was bought by IMG which led to my retirement, but many of my best friends went to work for them, one of my best friends is still an executive VP, I worked with Nike for athtletes like Ali, Foreman, NBA players like Erving... so I have lots of friends there, one of my past collegues is the head of Rolex's sports marketing department (how I met Federer) so -yes- I know people in these positons and because of my interest in both the stats, marketing and in Federer ask and receive info that I'm interested in.. I've read the Rolex/Federer contracts for goodness sakes and was fascinated by how much of it was geared towards his charitable endeavors.  (Rolex is also a charitable trust or owned by the Wildorf trust so a perfect fit). 

Because I knew and was immersed in both the wonderful side of sports and the dirty side of sports, I also was always interested in the human side of it-- what kind of person the athlete was.  I saw and knew of clients who doped, helped promote them as all American stars to my shame, and knew of good guys and bad guys..  Therefore, I am interested in the real person as well, and often ask those I know what the real person is like.

Now to Federer. 1. I love the tennis. He plays the game as close to my generation as currently possible  and having watched every great before the time of LAver, he's the best I've ever seen. He plays and loves the sport like I do- so I instantly gravitated towards him. 2. He also emerged shortly after I retired, so it was a combination of suddenly having all the time I could ask for to follow the sport I love and pay attention to my new favorite player. As someone who marketed and grew the brands of athtletes, I also immediately began to follow what his team did with the Federer brand- followed it very closely, almost in a way to see what I would have done... and frankly marvel at what he and his team created.  3. Having known the good guys and jerks, I appreciated him more because every single person I asked who had behind the scenes told me the guy was almost too good to be true. Just a good decent person with immense talent who had not let it change his inner goodness. This impressed me greatly and made me even more a fan. 4. Got to take my grandson to meet Fed in New York a few years ago thanks to friends at Rolex. I've been around the most famous athletes in modern times and could not have been more impressed by his genuine kindness to the fans, to my grandson,etc..  I know whats real and what's bs with athletes,celebrities, and I was impressed. So am even a bigger fan.  5. having been there for the beginning and end of many athtletes... I know the inevitable path and what it takes to hold it off, so now more than ever, I am fascinated by what he's doing.

So I think that covers it..  To the side of things I don't like-  all that I mention above about knowing what goes on behind the scenes in sports, the bad guys, what people tell me that work with athtletes- I developed a dislike for Nadal, his team and what they have been able to pull off.. 

So when I see people like Amerit  take info from the internet and present it as breaking news from inside sources, defend dopers, make up information like a complete change of court conditons to try and preemptively explain why their guy might lose, I jump at the chance to point these things out...

Julia Santamaria wrote:Chance of you immediately messaging your friends to back you up and attack me have just gone up by 42% (approximately).

chances of that 0- as I've never messaged 1 friend to attack you.. I can handle you quite easily alone :-)

Unless I meet someone face to face, I am always sceptical of reading someone's life story on the internet.
It could be true, but could also be conveniently fabricated.

Could be.

Isn't your truffin username one of someone else too (I think you said that last year?)

Oh yeah- don't you remember? It involved you- you were pretending you were in contact with the real Tim Ruffin who was a raging lunatic nadal fan on bleacher report and someone I debated with a lot. Veejay on here and you were arguing and he hated Ruffin. You began to claim that you knew Ruffin and that he had VJ banned from bleacher for racism. VJ asked me to come to this forum to defend him and tell the truth about why he left bleacher and what the real Ruffin had done. That's why I joined here and was completely upfront about using ruffins name as a joke. I was peter on bleacher. Kind of funny you being that up since it was actually done because of one of your lies. We quickly showed you were not in contact with the real Ruffin which is even more obvious with your dim memory of whose name I'm using. Smh... See that where my memory kills frauds like you. You can't even remember your fibs.

Oh please, of course I remember. Whenever I put question marks in brackets it's a pretty big hint I'm implying something.

It involved you- you were pretending you were in contact with the real Tim Ruffin

No, this is not the case- I joined BR very recently and way after Tim was banned. I had a friend of Tim who I knew on Vamos Brigade well, I do not claim to know Tim himself.

he had VJ banned from bleacher for racism.

This is why BR banned him apparently (but you and SR defended him... but surely you would do that either way he's your mate).

VJ asked me to come to this forum to defend him and tell the truth about why he left bleacher and what the real Ruffin had done. That's why I joined here

Kind of funny you being that up since it was actually done because of one of your lies.

TOTAL LIE.
What a fabricator you are.
This was your first account on OTF: https://ourtennisforum.forumotion.co.uk/u6
You were one of the first people to join, the only people who joined before you was Tenez (also had accounts as 'Admin' and Tenniswitch'), Summerblues, and NITB. Check memberlist and 'join date': https://ourtennisforum.forumotion.co.uk/memberlist?mode=joined&order=DESC&submit=Ok&username
So how could you only join because of that argument, and use that name because of that argument; when you joined before me (you'll find me as Larry Ellison, join date 21st July) in June 2012 and that argument only took place in autumn/winter of 2012.
What a total fabrication of the highest order.

See that where my memory kills frauds like you.

You'd probably be the world's worst detective, and a terrible liar too.

And just to confirm that you claim that I said I knew Truffin is another total fabrication, this is quote from Veejay: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:52 pm

Veejay wrote:

Amritia3ee wrote:I dont know how to contact Ruffin. Do you have his e-mail?

So I sent him a racist PM but he still gave me his email address?  
Wonderful logic..
Wheres your evidence??

And this is an extract of what I said on: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:42 pm

No, I haven't stalked anyone. The information I have received is from a friend of Tim Ruffin on Vamos Brigade.

So it is clear I never claimed to know Truffin, and we already know your earlier claim of only joining the forum due to this argument is nonsensical too, as you joined the forum 6 months before it.

You claim to have a semi-photographic memory, yet can't even remember your own BS, dear dear me.

Nah you are wrong- show how many post I made on this forum after I signed on orignianly- because john told me about the forum and the other one you all belonged too and invited me. Barely a post until he wrote and told me how you were lying about the real Ruffin and asked me to come on and tell the truth and expose your fraud. That when I really began to post here regularly. Sorry I didn't detail every nuance oft journy to this forum. I was going for more of a general overview

In terms of what you are implying by me using ruffins name- not sure what it is- considering you are on your admitted 3rd or 4th name here. If it's bad not to use your real name, what are you doing? I've never once claimed to be the real Ruffin.

There is no bs going on from me. You are the one breaking the doping news 1st here- oops it's been out there for weeks before your claim, your the one with source that guaranteed lightening quick AO courts. Your the one claiming veejay was a racist when he wasn't and is actually mixed race hisself and proud of it.

Really what are we arguing about. You seem worked up since I made a fool out of your claimed sources on the other thread. Let it go

Btw- I like how you bring up your posts about really just knowing Ruffin through a friend which was your attempt to cover your lies after we exposed you. You clearly claimed you were talking to Ruffin. After you were exposed, suddenly it was through a friend. You only bring those posts up. Smh.

truffin1 wrote:

Tenez wrote:Truffin what makes you such a passionate fan of Federer? His game I guess but the way you follow him there must be something else.

Now to Federer. 1. I love the tennis. He plays the game as close to my generation as currently possible  and having watched every great before the time of LAver, he's the best I've ever seen. He plays and loves the sport like I do- so I instantly gravitated towards him. 2. He also emerged shortly after I retired, so it was a combination of suddenly having all the time I could ask for to follow the sport I love and pay attention to my new favorite player. As someone who marketed and grew the brands of athtletes, I also immediately began to follow what his team did with the Federer brand- followed it very closely, almost in a way to see what I would have done... and frankly marvel at what he and his team created.  3. Having known the good guys and jerks, I appreciated him more because every single person I asked who had behind the scenes told me the guy was almost too good to be true. Just a good decent person with immense talent who had not let it change his inner goodness. This impressed me greatly and made me even more a fan. 4. Got to take my grandson to meet Fed in New York a few years ago thanks to friends at Rolex. I've been around the most famous athletes in modern times and could not have been more impressed by his genuine kindness to the fans, to my grandson,etc..  I know whats real and what's bs with athletes,celebrities, and I was impressed. So am even a bigger fan.  5. having been there for the beginning and end of many athtletes... I know the inevitable path and what it takes to hold it off, so now more than ever, I am fascinated by what he's doing.

Thanks Truffin.
Liking and loving a tennis player is an interesting phenomenon, and I always enjoy reading honest, not cliched answers on that topic.
I suppose, some people never mature enough to be able to drop their guard and need to look "perfect" or at least good in front of others, and you get these bland, "off the peg" replies.
I actually wrote a piece right from the heart about it the other day and called it "Long Live Tennis Nation", but managed to lose it all before posting it.

P.Bodo from tennis.com had a chat with posters the other day and this part got me thinking:

"Comment From Barry
What do you think of Federer's shanks in his last match? He was shanking with his old racquet too. You think he will need time to adjust or that his game isn't just what it used to be, combined with the increasing speed of the shots today.
1:35

Well, Barry, a Federer without shanks would be a sad thing to endure. The Fed shank is like that old Smiths song, "I am human and I need to be loved!:" (not just worshipped)" )

The Smiths song (How Soon Is Now?that used to be one of my all time favourites) aside, I think Bodo hit the nail on the head with "fandom" and the worship element of it.
People's insatiable  need for perfection that does not exist. Still, they cling to it like it does and fail to get a deeper more lasting and human side of it by seeing someone for what they are and accepting them like that.

That's what I find particularly appealing and beautiful about watching tennis: how players cope and deal with their imperfections.


That explains why so many of his fans can't cope with this late phase of Federer's career, when trophies and success dried out.
I find it tragic how they are able to drop all that rare generous beauty he provides in abundance, just because he is no longer fulfilling their need of peRFection.

More disgraceful lying from Truffin, and what's more, I can prove it.

truffin1 wrote:Barely a post until he wrote and told me how you were lying about the real Ruffin and asked me to come on and tell the truth and expose your fraud.

Oh really? 'Barely a post'
Well on your first account on OTF: https://ourtennisforum.forumotion.co.uk/u6stats
You wrote 40 posts with this account, and it shows you last logged in at July 31st 2012, which is 5 months before the argument. After that you used your 'Truffin1' account from October (I can't remember exactly why you switched tbh but I think you said it was because you forgot your password to the first account, which is fair enough). 
So a minimum of 40 posts, so you were lying there.

And even if not for the above, how does this explain you saying that you named yourself after Tim Ruffin because of my argument?? You made the 'Tim Ruffin' name months before the argument even started, why not just admit you fabricated that? 

truffin1 wrote:You seem worked up since I made a fool out of your claimed sources on the other thread.

When I say you are 'Sherlock Holmes'- I was being sarcastic…
I'll be honest, watching you 'expose' my parody of yourself was pretty funny. 

truffin1 wrote:Btw- I like how you bring up your posts about really just knowing Ruffin through a friend which was your attempt to cover your lies after we exposed you. You clearly claimed you were talking to Ruffin. After you were exposed, suddenly it was through a friend. You only bring those posts up. Smh.

This is NOT the case. No other way of putting it. This is a fabrication.
I have the debate in front of me now, and at no point did I claim to know Tim, infact i categorically say very early on in the thread that I do not know Tim himself but know a friend of his fromu Vamos Brigade. In the second page I even ask Veejay for his email, because I had not contacted him before, I say this and is quoted a few posts above. 
And my quotes are from 19th and 20th of December, showing I do not know Truffin, but your first post on the thread is on: Friday December 21st 2.25 am, therefore AFTER the posts I quoted earlier. 
So this proves you could not have come on the forum to show I did not know Truffin, as before then I had confirmed numerous times this was not the case. I never claimed it in the first place. 


So there we have it, you have proved yourself to be a first class liar and fabricator. No backtracks or clinging onto to my parody of you earlier can show differently. 
And considering you have shown yourself to be a perennial liar, can we really trust your 'life story', which you always conveniently use to back yourself up in debates? No chance.

Amri,
can you please continue this pointless and to the rest of us uninteresting conversation in the appropriate thread:
https://ourtennisforum.forumotion.co.uk/t196p150-gangnam-style-closing-in-on-1-billion-hits-on-youtube

I have finished what I had to say, proven beyond reasonable doubt that he was lying.

Yes you're right, it's a pretty uninteresting conversation, but I felt I had to reply.
Done now though.

noleisthebest wrote:

truffin1 wrote:

Tenez wrote:Truffin what makes you such a passionate fan of Federer? His game I guess but the way you follow him there must be something else.

Now to Federer. 1. I love the tennis. He plays the game as close to my generation as currently possible  and having watched every great before the time of LAver, he's the best I've ever seen. He plays and loves the sport like I do- so I instantly gravitated towards him. 2. He also emerged shortly after I retired, so it was a combination of suddenly having all the time I could ask for to follow the sport I love and pay attention to my new favorite player. As someone who marketed and grew the brands of athtletes, I also immediately began to follow what his team did with the Federer brand- followed it very closely, almost in a way to see what I would have done... and frankly marvel at what he and his team created.  3. Having known the good guys and jerks, I appreciated him more because every single person I asked who had behind the scenes told me the guy was almost too good to be true. Just a good decent person with immense talent who had not let it change his inner goodness. This impressed me greatly and made me even more a fan. 4. Got to take my grandson to meet Fed in New York a few years ago thanks to friends at Rolex. I've been around the most famous athletes in modern times and could not have been more impressed by his genuine kindness to the fans, to my grandson,etc..  I know whats real and what's bs with athletes,celebrities, and I was impressed. So am even a bigger fan.  5. having been there for the beginning and end of many athtletes... I know the inevitable path and what it takes to hold it off, so now more than ever, I am fascinated by what he's doing.

Thanks Truffin.
Liking and loving a tennis player is an interesting phenomenon, and I always enjoy reading honest, not cliched answers on that topic.
I suppose, some people never mature enough to be able to drop their guard and need to look "perfect" or at least good in front of others, and you get these bland, "off the peg" replies.
I actually wrote a piece right from the heart about it the other day and called it "Long Live Tennis Nation", but managed to lose it all before posting it.

P.Bodo from tennis.com had a chat with posters the other day and this part got me thinking:

"Comment From Barry
What do you think of Federer's shanks in his last match? He was shanking with his old racquet too. You think he will need time to adjust or that his game isn't just what it used to be, combined with the increasing speed of the shots today.
1:35

Well, Barry, a Federer without shanks would be a sad thing to endure. The Fed shank is like that old Smiths song, "I am human and I need to be loved!:" (not just worshipped)" )

The Smiths song (How Soon Is Now?that used to be one of my all time favourites) aside, I think Bodo hit the nail on the head with "fandom" and the worship element of it.
People's insatiable  need for perfection that does not exist. Still, they cling to it like it does and fail to get a deeper more lasting and human side of it by seeing someone for what they are and accepting them like that.

That's what I find particularly appealing and beautiful about watching tennis: how players cope and deal with their imperfections.


That explains why so many of his fans can't cope with this late phase of Federer's career, when trophies and success dried out.
I find it tragic how they are able to drop all that rare generous beauty he provides in abundance, just because he is no longer fulfilling their need of peRFection.

Thanks Nole.... I agree wholeheartedly, it's a shame to see "jump on the band wagon" fans fall off as soon as their guy isn't the best.  Some people need whoever they like to be the very best and any sign of being human just destroys them.   That's why I laugh at how desperate Nadal fans are to prove he's a GOAT... as if being one of the best isn't good enough.. It's a high standard to have to live up too...   Elvis once said "it's very hard to live up to an image. the image is one thing and the human being is another and people confuse the two."    Just last night, Federer slower at times, clearly lost a step, had moments of pure brilliance that should make anyone applaud as a fan of the beauty of the game.

truffin1 wrote:

Tenez wrote:Truffin what makes you such a passionate fan of Federer? His game I guess but the way you follow him there must be something else.

well i'll give you the long answer to partly answer amerits obnoxious mocking... just when I was interested in something she wrote.

My career was in sports marketing/promotion. ...........

FASCINATING Truffin!!!! Really enjoyed reading your CV! and Also what makes you such a fan of the man.

Likewise from the very beginning (2001) but more so in 2003 I completely fell for that genuine, kind and gracious player gifted by surreal talent. Of course over the years, his skin has thickened, and that's perfectly normal but he still has that noble temperament and his talent is still intact....when on form.

I would not bother much about Amri...He simply sees the game, players from a very different angle. I think it is quite good to have posters seeing from very different angles...even if I don't agree with what they say, he tries to build his arguments and provides some good info at times.....but it seems you have known each others for years.   

You must have had a good job. Based in NY I gather?

truffin1 wrote:

Tenez wrote:Truffin what makes you such a passionate fan of Federer? His game I guess but the way you follow him there must be something else.

well i'll give you the long answer to partly answer amerits obnoxious mocking... just when I was interested in something she wrote.

My career was in sports marketing/promotion. That was my life for over 30 years and I worked with some of the very best- mostly in boxing, nba. Tennis was my passion personally, but my company did not work with tennis players.  Because of my background, I find marketing, measurables, reason for popularity fascinating and creating this interest was what I was best at. So I pour over stats, love to analyze ratings of tv shows, boxoffice grosses you name it...  So when it comes to Federer or tennis in general- I also like and am informed on that stats and also the marketing side of it...  To answer Nole- it's not because I need my guy to be the best like most fanatics like Amerit, it's because caring about who sold the most socks is what my career was about and still a passion.

I also have a semi photographic memory and love debate forums as I can pull up from memory what someone wrote a year ago or something I read or heard a year ago-- esp if its something I'm interested in.

My company was bought by IMG which led to my retirement, but many of my best friends went to work for them, one of my best friends is still an executive VP, I worked with Nike for athtletes like Ali, Foreman, NBA players like Erving... so I have lots of friends there, one of my past collegues is the head of Rolex's sports marketing department (how I met Federer) so -yes- I know people in these positons and because of my interest in both the stats, marketing and in Federer ask and receive info that I'm interested in.. I've read the Rolex/Federer contracts for goodness sakes and was fascinated by how much of it was geared towards his charitable endeavors.  (Rolex is also a charitable trust or owned by the Wildorf trust so a perfect fit). 

Because I knew and was immersed in both the wonderful side of sports and the dirty side of sports, I also was always interested in the human side of it-- what kind of person the athlete was.  I saw and knew of clients who doped, helped promote them as all American stars to my shame, and knew of good guys and bad guys..  Therefore, I am interested in the real person as well, and often ask those I know what the real person is like.

Now to Federer. 1. I love the tennis. He plays the game as close to my generation as currently possible  and having watched every great before the time of LAver, he's the best I've ever seen. He plays and loves the sport like I do- so I instantly gravitated towards him. 2. He also emerged shortly after I retired, so it was a combination of suddenly having all the time I could ask for to follow the sport I love and pay attention to my new favorite player. As someone who marketed and grew the brands of athtletes, I also immediately began to follow what his team did with the Federer brand- followed it very closely, almost in a way to see what I would have done... and frankly marvel at what he and his team created.  3. Having known the good guys and jerks, I appreciated him more because every single person I asked who had behind the scenes told me the guy was almost too good to be true. Just a good decent person with immense talent who had not let it change his inner goodness. This impressed me greatly and made me even more a fan. 4. Got to take my grandson to meet Fed in New York a few years ago thanks to friends at Rolex. I've been around the most famous athletes in modern times and could not have been more impressed by his genuine kindness to the fans, to my grandson,etc..  I know whats real and what's bs with athletes,celebrities, and I was impressed. So am even a bigger fan.  5. having been there for the beginning and end of many athtletes... I know the inevitable path and what it takes to hold it off, so now more than ever, I am fascinated by what he's doing.

So I think that covers it..  To the side of things I don't like-  all that I mention above about knowing what goes on behind the scenes in sports, the bad guys, what people tell me that work with athtletes- I developed a dislike for Nadal, his team and what they have been able to pull off.. 

So when I see people like Amerit  take info from the internet and present it as breaking news from inside sources, defend dopers, make up information like a complete change of court conditons to try and preemptively explain why their guy might lose, I jump at the chance to point these things out...

Thanks Truffin for such a nice CV, we can just envy you. Working with sport stars is something, which only few can experience.
Can I ask you one question. It seems to be that despite all negative things in sport (as abusing drugs, corruption) you really like sport. So, does that mean that there are still involved more good people in sport than corrupted and the sport stays the place where sportsmans have the same conditions to win trophies. Not easy answer, but your honest reply would be very appreciated.

Tenez wrote:

truffin1 wrote:

Tenez wrote:Truffin what makes you such a passionate fan of Federer? His game I guess but the way you follow him there must be something else.

well i'll give you the long answer to partly answer amerits obnoxious mocking... just when I was interested in something she wrote.

My career was in sports marketing/promotion. ...........

FASCINATING Truffin!!!! Really enjoyed reading your CV! and Also what makes you such a fan of the man.

Likewise from the very beginning (2001) but more so in 2003 I completely fell for that genuine, kind and gracious player gifted by surreal talent. Of course over the years, his skin has thickened, and that's perfectly normal but he still has that noble temperament and his talent is still intact....when on form.

I would not bother much about Amri...He simply sees the game, players from a very different angle. I think it is quite good to have posters seeing from very different angles...even if I don't agree with what they say, he tries to build his arguments and provides some good info at times.....but it seems you have known each others for years.   

You must have had a good job. Based in NY I gather?

Thank you! The beauty of sports- it creates a common bond

I was in Los Angeles for awhile and then New York, but retired back to the southern USA where I was from.   New York weather was brutal after awhile.  Job was great. traveled, met heroes of mine, did some good innovative stuff in marketing with others that is a building block of what we see now..  Good life, but better now with great wife, kids, grand kids :-)

truffin1 wrote:...Good life, but better now with great wife, kids, grand kids :-)

...and wisdom!

paulcz wrote:

truffin1 wrote:

Tenez wrote:Truffin what makes you such a passionate fan of Federer? His game I guess but the way you follow him there must be something else.

well i'll give you the long answer to partly answer amerits obnoxious mocking... just when I was interested in something she wrote.

My career was in sports marketing/promotion. That was my life for over 30 years and I worked with some of the very best- mostly in boxing, nba. Tennis was my passion personally, but my company did not work with tennis players.  Because of my background, I find marketing, measurables, reason for popularity fascinating and creating this interest was what I was best at. So I pour over stats, love to analyze ratings of tv shows, boxoffice grosses you name it...  So when it comes to Federer or tennis in general- I also like and am informed on that stats and also the marketing side of it...  To answer Nole- it's not because I need my guy to be the best like most fanatics like Amerit, it's because caring about who sold the most socks is what my career was about and still a passion.

I also have a semi photographic memory and love debate forums as I can pull up from memory what someone wrote a year ago or something I read or heard a year ago-- esp if its something I'm interested in.

My company was bought by IMG which led to my retirement, but many of my best friends went to work for them, one of my best friends is still an executive VP, I worked with Nike for athtletes like Ali, Foreman, NBA players like Erving... so I have lots of friends there, one of my past collegues is the head of Rolex's sports marketing department (how I met Federer) so -yes- I know people in these positons and because of my interest in both the stats, marketing and in Federer ask and receive info that I'm interested in.. I've read the Rolex/Federer contracts for goodness sakes and was fascinated by how much of it was geared towards his charitable endeavors.  (Rolex is also a charitable trust or owned by the Wildorf trust so a perfect fit). 

Because I knew and was immersed in both the wonderful side of sports and the dirty side of sports, I also was always interested in the human side of it-- what kind of person the athlete was.  I saw and knew of clients who doped, helped promote them as all American stars to my shame, and knew of good guys and bad guys..  Therefore, I am interested in the real person as well, and often ask those I know what the real person is like.

Now to Federer. 1. I love the tennis. He plays the game as close to my generation as currently possible  and having watched every great before the time of LAver, he's the best I've ever seen. He plays and loves the sport like I do- so I instantly gravitated towards him. 2. He also emerged shortly after I retired, so it was a combination of suddenly having all the time I could ask for to follow the sport I love and pay attention to my new favorite player. As someone who marketed and grew the brands of athtletes, I also immediately began to follow what his team did with the Federer brand- followed it very closely, almost in a way to see what I would have done... and frankly marvel at what he and his team created.  3. Having known the good guys and jerks, I appreciated him more because every single person I asked who had behind the scenes told me the guy was almost too good to be true. Just a good decent person with immense talent who had not let it change his inner goodness. This impressed me greatly and made me even more a fan. 4. Got to take my grandson to meet Fed in New York a few years ago thanks to friends at Rolex. I've been around the most famous athletes in modern times and could not have been more impressed by his genuine kindness to the fans, to my grandson,etc..  I know whats real and what's bs with athletes,celebrities, and I was impressed. So am even a bigger fan.  5. having been there for the beginning and end of many athtletes... I know the inevitable path and what it takes to hold it off, so now more than ever, I am fascinated by what he's doing.

So I think that covers it..  To the side of things I don't like-  all that I mention above about knowing what goes on behind the scenes in sports, the bad guys, what people tell me that work with athtletes- I developed a dislike for Nadal, his team and what they have been able to pull off.. 

So when I see people like Amerit  take info from the internet and present it as breaking news from inside sources, defend dopers, make up information like a complete change of court conditons to try and preemptively explain why their guy might lose, I jump at the chance to point these things out...

Thanks Truffin for such a nice CV, we can just envy you. Working with sport stars is something, which only few can experience.
Can I ask you one question.  It seems to be that despite all negative things in sport (as abusing drugs, corruption) you really like sport. So, does that mean that there are still involved more good people in sport than corrupted and the sport stays  the place where sportsmans have the same conditions to win trophies. Not easy answer, but your honest reply would be very appreciated.

thank you.
wow. now that's a complicated answer or opinion on my part..  give me some easy ones!! lol..

I'm not sure if I can do the question justice or will approach it from the wrong angle, but Ill try in as brief way as I can.  

What's good and pure in sports IMO- are the fans..  We are the ones who truly control the product.
 What most people forget is all professional sports are a business- no different than a store that lures customer in with good products and want to sell it to them.  That's how the owners see it, the organizers see it.. Rules are created, tweaked, ignored purely to ensure that the product is appealing enough for the consumer to spend their money.  The way to ensure sports remain clean is for the fans to demand it..  Baseball owners knew and gladly let their stars dope while record profits were being made. Only when the fans got tired of the overblown stats and some of the scandals and attendance fell off, ratings fell off- did the owners suddenly clean it up. Now baseball doesn't blink twice while suspending their biggest stars. Boxing was massively corrupt during many of my years working with it- some of the biggest fights in history were tampered with, outright shams, or attempted to be. The only reason it cleaned up is the gamblers rebelled since they felt their bets weren't safe and the revenue fell off.. Suddenly- it got MUCH better.  In the sport that we love and talk about here- I fear the fans have not yet shown they care about how their favorites win or go about winning.  Record ratings, record revenue during a time when it's clear players are doping, surfaces are being manipulated to give the biggest money draws the best chance to win the tournaments/play more matches..   It's the fan who have to be good and clean.
The athletes are also more good and pure than not. They are under intense pressure to perform and many will cheat to get the glory and riches.  Especially if the higher-ups let them.  A Rod, Barry Bonds- were fully known to be dopers but given massive contracts-- it's only human nature that if you know you can do something and your "boss" lets you do it that will raise you to a level where you can collect massive riches and glory- you will do it..  So guys who aren't truly naturally as great as they could be by doping will do so... Again- it's the fans who have to force the bosses to change the "culture"  of the sport so the athletes feel they can make their living and glory by not cheating.    The very cream of the crop, the true greats will always rise to the top though- some are just so naturally gifted. Ali, Federer, Jordan, Babe Ruth whoever- put them under any circumstances and they will figure out a way to win naturally because they can... Now they might get robbed of some titles along the way- but they do enough that they don't feel the need to go above and beyond what they can naturally do.  Most greats have a love of the sport that transcends the business... Jordan crying like a baby with his 1st championship trophy, Federer fighting for his titles and letting his emotions show- that's not about the business or how much money it brings them it's about the love of the sport... and probably what draw us to these guys..  Its certainly what made me love some of the guys I knew and some of the guys I follow as a fan.   

I could go on forever... :-)

truffin1 wrote: What most people forget is all professional sports are a business- no different than a store that lures customer in with good products and want to sell it to them. 

Exactly. That is what I keep saying in the other thread. Wasn't like that for centuries...it only became so recently....in tennis 45 years ago to be precise.

Boxing was massively corrupt during many of my years working with it- some of the biggest fights in history were tampered with, outright shams, or attempted to be. The only reason it cleaned up is the gamblers rebelled since they felt their bets weren't safe and the revenue fell off..

Yes I was probably only 20yo and ignorant of how corrupt human nature could be but the Marvin Hagler Sugar Ray fight was the first wake up call of how sport could get corrupt. I did not even see the match but from the built up (the gloves weight issue) to the close points felt like a huge show with little sport in it.

Record ratings, record revenue during a time when it's clear players are doping, surfaces are being manipulated to give the biggest money draws the best chance to win the tournaments/play more matches.. It's the fan who have to be good and clean.

Exactly my thoughts again.

It's amazing you have found our forum and post everything I knew but could not prove cause I am not in the sport business....however humans are humans, regardless the job the traits are the same and it is actually easy to draw a pretty precise picture of what's happening behind the curtains even without having lifted them.

So, what then needs to happen in tennis for it to get cleaned up?
Nadal to go completely bald or come out?
Nadal to start losing and appearing in slam finals?

Tennis needs a huge drug scandal to wake people up.

I am not hopeful it would.
If Nadal got caught and exposed, I can guarantee most people would find a way around it in their minds.
The problem is, people don't care. Most of them.
Look at cycling, it had the biggest doping scandal you could want, but is it clean now?

Oh that is a given but at least it would make them realise that drugs happen in tennis.

Better than a huge drug scandal in tennis would be to have an old player crushing those physical freaks on talent alone and winning the AO!!!

It would be give me hope in this dark world.

Yes, that would be special.

truffin1 wrote:

thank you.
wow. now that's a complicated answer or opinion on my part..  give me some easy ones!! lol..

I'm not sure if I can do the question justice or will approach it from the wrong angle, but Ill try in as brief way as I can.  

What's good and pure in sports IMO- are the fans..  We are the ones who truly control the product.
 What most people forget is all professional sports are a business- no different than a store that lures customer in with good products and want to sell it to them.  That's how the owners see it, the organizers see it.. Rules are created, tweaked, ignored purely to ensure that the product is appealing enough for the consumer to spend their money.  The way to ensure sports remain clean is for the fans to demand it..  Baseball owners knew and gladly let their stars dope while record profits were being made. Only when the fans got tired of the overblown stats and some of the scandals and attendance fell off, ratings fell off- did the owners suddenly clean it up. Now baseball doesn't blink twice while suspending their biggest stars. Boxing was massively corrupt during many of my years working with it- some of the biggest fights in history were tampered with, outright shams, or attempted to be. The only reason it cleaned up is the gamblers rebelled since they felt their bets weren't safe and the revenue fell off.. Suddenly- it got MUCH better.  In the sport that we love and talk about here- I fear the fans have not yet shown they care about how their favorites win or go about winning.  Record ratings, record revenue during a time when it's clear players are doping, surfaces are being manipulated to give the biggest money draws the best chance to win the tournaments/play more matches..   It's the fan who have to be good and clean.
The athletes are also more good and pure than not. They are under intense pressure to perform and many will cheat to get the glory and riches.  Especially if the higher-ups let them.  A Rod, Barry Bonds- were fully known to be dopers but given massive contracts-- it's only human nature that if you know you can do something and your "boss" lets you do it that will raise you to a level where you can collect massive riches and glory- you will do it..  So guys who aren't truly naturally as great as they could be by doping will do so... Again- it's the fans who have to force the bosses to change the "culture"  of the sport so the athletes feel they can make their living and glory by not cheating.    The very cream of the crop, the true greats will always rise to the top though- some are just so naturally gifted. Ali, Federer, Jordan, Babe Ruth whoever- put them under any circumstances and they will figure out a way to win naturally because they can... Now they might get robbed of some titles along the way- but they do enough that they don't feel the need to go above and beyond what they can naturally do.  Most greats have a love of the sport that transcends the business... Jordan crying like a baby with his 1st championship trophy, Federer fighting for his titles and letting his emotions show- that's not about the business or how much money it brings them it's about the love of the sport... and probably what draw us to these guys..  Its certainly what made me love some of the guys I knew and some of the guys I follow as a fan.   

I could go on forever... :-)

Yeah Truffin, you surely could     and thanks for your reply from someone who really lives a sport life and also knows how the things are going behind the curtains. My question has been rather topic for a diploma theme than for a quick answer, so I really appreciate your own view.

What is clear, that there is getting more money into sport and practically all is driven by them. It  derives that amount of dopers in sport will raise further and  bet gamblers’s tempations will be higher as well. So, it is up to us to start being more critical about that grey side  in sport and therefore let’s keep open eyes for such a case as Nadal is in tennis.

"....however humans are humans, regardless the job the traits are the same and it is actually easy to draw a pretty precise picture of what's happening behind the curtains even without having lifted them. "


Exactly Tenez-- that's why I don't understand why so many have their heads in the sand.. It's just common sense..  I've said it on here before and it still holds true--   Take 100 young men or woman in any group setting... Church, company, school, sport...  doesn't matter where they come from and you will find a portion that lie, cheat, would steal, etc.. It's basic human nature.  Now add onto that that these people have all been coddled, told they are amazing, have the ability to create incredible wealth for themselves and their families with more success, have the most physically beautiful people willing to date and hook up with them and the more success leads to more of that...  and you will have even more willing to do whatever it takes to reach that level......

Yet- for some reason you have a large group of fans who believe that somehow the people that make up the sport of tennis are pure and clean and would never do anything wrong.. that somehow tennis, without any real system to weed or cast out the bad apples, only attracts the best morals to their playing ranks..   Since the beginning of time, throughout history- that tennis breaks the rule of human nature..  Its mindboggling naïve.

What will it take for it all to be exposed? As I mentioned- there has to be a spark that creates a loss in revenue.. that's the only thing I've ever seen work.  It can happen in different ways..  Part of me believes that fans of a sport clearly love to see a once in a lifetime Goat come along.. The Ali's, Jordans..  In baseball, with much of it's appeal based on people who love to follow stats- there began a backlash as record after record was broken, year after year, seemingly avg talent players suddenly flourished into stats monsters-- at some point- there was no excitement in a home run, no excitement in a chase for a record because it was happening every week..  People loved the race between McGuire and Sosa to break the long standing homerun record- something only a handful of guys in 80 years or so have even approached.. Suddenly you had two guys going after it...  That ends, and suddenly the next year someone is approaching it again, and the next year  and the next year.. finally the fans took their heads out of the sand and said "somethings wrong here"  They quit going to the parks, quit buying merchandise of these players, started mocking Bonds and others who were clearly playing at a level that wasn't natural.  Congress got involved after a letter writng campaign from fans.. sports writers smelled a story and it snowballed. The owners getting hit in their wallets suddenly switched gears and went for a clean up.

In cycling I believe much of the hunt for Armstrong was sports writers being fed info from other teams that were basically jealous of his success- knowing he was doping.. that was my opinion take on what started it at least.  Eventually it snowballed as well..

Something has to happen with the fans of tennis... It's clearly not going to happen anytime soon, but I think as time goes on- if there continues to be and more and more players suddenly become super human winning machines--  the excitement of seeing someone special will become common place, interest will fall off and the sport will react. 

The next thing is the tennis sports writers are perhaps the worst I've even seen.  They don't dig for anything, just put out one polictally correct fluff piece after another.  The sport is pretty unique in its access to players--  what other sport has it's greatest legend, Federer sitting in front of multiple reporters every other day for a couple of weeks for an hour answereing every question they put forth in 4 different languages sometimes. Every player that plays a match sits down and answer questions. The big stars then go to the different sports channels and do interviews on their off days, after matches. It's unprecedented access, yet rarely is a hard hitting question asked.  Sure- Federer is a master of politically correct answers-- answering honestly than most, but carefully.  Yet last week, for once a reporter asked a great set up-  what did Federer think of coaching from the stands... Federer says it's cheating and he just doesn't understand how players put in all that work to be prepared then feel they still need help during a match.. even gives the great example of a school student studying, being prepared for a test, then still cheating during the test- how stupid that is-  and how unfair to the other student who did the same preparation and is not cheating but relying on himself...  We have the greatest player in the sport, the most popular player saying coaching from the stands is cheating.

Now a week later- you have the 2nd biggest player in the sport getting caught during a match for the umpteenth time receiving signals from his coach.  Gets a warning from the umpire.  The oncourt reporter for ESPN says he's near Toni and didn't hear Toni say anything but thinks the umpire saw hand signals.  It's not even a secret that Toni and Nadal have preplanned signals where Toni touches his face in certain ways to direct Nadal.. Anyone who's watched enough matches, whose attended a Nadal match live and watched Toni has seen it. He's been caught multiple times doing it.   Toni ADMITS to doing it and says he doesn't care.  After the match- does one reporter ask Nadal about it? No. What ends up happeing is the reporters fixate on Nadals other but more minor rule breaking of wasting time between a few points...  Nadal then goes on a rant about how he respects the rules but the umpire needs to do a better job and not one reporters says "you talk about following the rules, but what about Toni coaching you?"  Even crazier- is not one reporter thinks to bring up Federer calling what Nadal just got caught doing "cheating" and try to get Nadal to respond. The perfect opportunity to create a real story that will create controversary..  Nothing.   It's bizarre and I don't know another sport where the writers fixate on minor things, put out stories about whether Federer was trying to get into Murrays head by mentioning that Murray is coming off back surgery of all things.. but don't try and seize on a real story that the 2nd biggest star is caught cheating again and the biggest star who might end up playing him this week- is public in calling for it to stop... 

sorry for the rant guys-- lol.. once I get going......

Great post, again!
"In this country intellectual cowardice is the worst enemy a writer or journalist has to face."

truffin1 wrote: Take 100 young men or woman in any group setting... Church, company, school, sport...  doesn't matter where they come from and you will find a portion that lie, cheat, would steal, etc.. It's basic human nature.  Now add onto that that these people have all been coddled, told they are amazing, have the ability to create incredible wealth for themselves and their families with more success, have the most physically beautiful people willing to date and hook up with them and the more success leads to more of that...  and you will have even more willing to do whatever it takes to reach that level......

indeed...and under the "right" circumstances, I would one of those liars, cheaters, thieves....etc...I am just lucky in a way I don't really have too ....yet.

Yet- for some reason you have a large group of fans who believe that somehow the people that make up the sport of tennis are pure and clean and would never do anything wrong.. that somehow tennis, without any real system to weed or cast out the bad apples, only attracts the best morals to their playing ranks.. Since the beginning of time, throughout history- that tennis breaks the rule of human nature.. Its mindboggling naïve.

For many of us (fans) it only takes a smile from our favourite player to believe he is genuine, kind and righteous. We are so gullible and fanship is unfortunately not where it hurts most. It's politicians who make the most of our credulity. Those who see through just suffer in silence!

What will it take for it all to be exposed? As I mentioned- there has to be a spark that creates a loss in revenue..

Exactly what I wrote so many times here and other forums...LA will fall when his revenue generating image will not be as lucrative.....exactly what happened. And indeed it was probably helped by his arrogance and jealousy he created in the peloton.

Something has to happen with the fans of tennis... It's clearly not going to happen anytime soon, but I think as time goes on- if there continues to be and more and more players suddenly become super human winning machines-- the excitement of seeing someone special will become common place, interest will fall off and the sport will react.

Yes money will rule again.

The next thing is the tennis sports writers are perhaps the worst I've even seen. They don't dig for anything, just put out one polictally correct fluff piece after another. The sport is pretty unique in its access to players-- what other sport has it's greatest legend, Federer sitting in front of multiple reporters every other day for a couple of weeks for an hour answereing every question they put forth in 4 different languages sometimes. Every player that plays a match sits down and answer questions. The big stars then go to the different sports channels and do interviews on their off days, after matches. It's unprecedented access, yet rarely is a hard hitting question asked. Sure- Federer is a master of politically correct answers-- answering honestly than most, but carefully. Yet last week, for once a reporter asked a great set up- what did Federer think of coaching from the stands... Federer says it's cheating and he just doesn't understand how players put in all that work to be prepared then feel they still need help during a match.. even gives the great example of a school student studying, being prepared for a test, then still cheating during the test- how stupid that is- and how unfair to the other student who did the same preparation and is not cheating but relying on himself... We have the greatest player in the sport, the most popular player saying coaching from the stands is cheating.

But if they were, they would be put aside and likely to lose their job by their employers. They can only talk when there I a clear legal case. We say in a crude way over here that a journalist with a job is a whore, an honest one is a jobseeker.

Now a week later- you have the 2nd biggest player in the sport getting caught during a match for the umpteenth time receiving signals from his coach. Gets a warning from the umpire. The oncourt reporter for ESPN says he's near Toni ........

Certainly tennis has gone down to lowest levels in that respect. I think it might essentially be due to Federer killing all competition and suddenly someone with some "charisma" (Nadal) was giving him a challenge on clay so they helped him face him on other surfaces. Fed said himself it was hard for him to understand at first but them did. I think tennis was better with nadal than without...despite all the negatives.....just!