The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

laverfan wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:Endurance is a great skill in cycling, that's what you train for.
that's the whole beauty of it: pushing yourself to see how far your mind and body can take you.

Taking illegal enhancements is also pushing your body, is it not?

So the love for cycling and winning the TDF is so strong, that it makes a cyclist blind to the price?

This love is an obsession driving the cyclists madly like eels to the Sargasso. I think RC car racing is less detrimental to human health.

All human sport should be banned. Only mechanical robots should be allowed to play sport.

You don't have to drug yourself in order to push your body. You just have to be prepared to understand that your body has its limits. And not try to push beyond those limits with drugs.
It's quite a long way before yo get to your limits without drugs, anyway, so those who do take drugs are massive cowards.

LMFAO...
You are unwilling to entertain any conspiracy theories but yet you dont mind voicing a few of your own
i.e the photographs are photoshopped...yet you havent even given me a single reason to believe they are
Lenld will disavow himself from Murray if Murray were taking PED's
What are you basing this on,apart from your assumptions and presumptions,its pure speculation Laverfan
You constantly hint and this and hint at that,implying this and implying that,your comments are filled with innuendo...but yet you never actually say anything.I can see straight through you,this way youre never really held accountable for anything you say
You strike me as one of those kinds of people who will jump on the "I told you so" bandwagon" the day Nadal gest exposed for being a drugs cheat
ad then justify it by saying,"well I was only ever going to believe what WADA or the ITF said"


Can you give me a plausible explanation why Journal du Dimanche would loosely link Nadal to Fuentes if they had no proof?I asked this before,why be so cavalier with one of sports highest profile players?Why put themselves at risk to be sued for libel and defamation of character?Why didnt the Nadal camp seek legal compensation?
Can you also give me a link to prove that "Journal du Dimanche had no cojones to supply proof to ITF/WADA/RFET or the Spaniards " I would like to see evidence of that please
Guilt by association?No guilt by association Laverfan,dont put words in my mouth,perhaps suspicion by association,but not guilt-BIG difference No one ever said Ferrer was guilty,I only voiced my suspicion of him because you brought it up,You asked me why theres no consistency re Ferrer,I pointed out there there is suspicion which is consistent with the reasons why many are suspicious about other players.You keep trying to prove that only 1 athlete keeps being singled out,how many times do I have to tell you this is not the case,how many times do I have to tell you that I wont accuse anyone unless I am 100% certain
I am not 100% certain of Ferrer but because of being linked to a dr who has recently been accused of doping violations and because there are characteristics which are consistent with the reasons why I am suspicious of others players,means I am completely open to the possibility that Ferrerr could have or is doping,I believe its entirely plausible
But let me ask you this,if Ferrer wasnt linked to Dr Luis Garcia for reasons to do with doping,can you give me a plausible explanation for the reasons why he is linked to Dr Garcia at all? If you want to dispute guilt by association then there has to be a legitimate reasons why he is links to dr Garcia
Its not like Federer who happened to be a close friend of Woods or was linked to someone because of the company that represents him,it is not the same thing Laverfan,thats a pathetic comparison unless you can prove to me that dr Luis Garcia and Ferrer are BFF's
There is absolutely nothing wrong with my logic as I have always stated that if Im suspicious of one athlete then I am open to the possibility that any athlete is doping,by the same token if one Spanish athlete is caught doping and their own prime minister is involved in exonerating the accused athlete then naturally I will be open to the possibility that any Spanish athlete could be doping and that possibly the exact same would happen if they so happen to be caught
My suspicions of certain athletes aren't baseless either and certainly not solely because of their nationality,dont try and twist things so that it seems that way
At the same time you cannot ignore that certain countries have bigger problem with doping the others,the problem seems to be more wide spread due to the fact that even their authorities are willing to be involved in cover ups,its not like David Cameron or Obama is exonerating dopers,so while I am open to the possibility that any athlete from these countries could be doping,I am automatically less suspicious across the board because there seems to be much stricter policy when it comes to doping then that of Spain

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2033444/Nick-Harris-Britain-takes-gold-comes-testing-drugs.html


As you can see theres plenty of reason to be suspicious of athletes hailing from Spain for the reasons stated in the link,you may call it being racist,I call it being realistic.The other thing thats completely outlandish about your comparison ( once again) is that its not like linking every German to Hitler,we are specifically talking about Spanish athletes here,not every single Spanish person

"This is providing you grounds to accuse Nadal whenever he comes back, whether he looks ripped or not of how he does not look 'right'. "

Yes,if you have a problem with it dispute it.I have asked you several times to answer the questions I asked,you know as well as I do that the reason why you avoid answering them is because there is no plausible explanation for anyone to develop a physique like that with little to no weight training especially if they are doing that much cardio.Instead of answering the question you try to twist things by asking more questions and point out that Im assuming things ( when the Nadal camp already admitted that he does all his training on court)
To ask me how we know he doesnt do weight training doesnt answer the questions Laverfan.The question was very specific,I even suggested that we take Nadal out of the equation and discuss the possibility that any athlete could develop a physique like that with little to no weight training,you simply ignored that
Does the part of the questions that says "little to no weight training" not rule out discussing whether he uses a gym or not? Thats not the point Laverfan,the questions very specifically asks- with little to no weight training.Its not rocket science so why do you keep ignoring that part?
But lets entertain your idea for the minute,lets say he does do weight training
There is no way anyone who does weight training and as much cardio as Nadal does on a daily basis,can become that big.Its impossible because of the cardio,no matter what the balance is,for you to get that big you would have to do significantly less running,we all know thats not going to happen while they are playing tennis competitivelyThis is why you will never see a body builder on a treadmill,cause they are scared of running their muscle tone way,barring in mind that they are on drugs and possibility of that even happening while on drugs is slim to none,yet it still scares them so much that they'd rather not risk it and instead diet to make sure they keep the fat off
The other thing that works against the possibility is that for you to develop such a physique,it would take several hours of weight training no less then 5-6 times per week and even then without the drugs there is no way you will ever achieve that "inflated " look.That "inflated" look can only be achieved by using steroids which contains growth hormones-by this I mean that if I had to squeeze Nadals biceps,the only way I can describe it would be like squeezing water out of a sponge thats full of water.The steroids creates a visual illusion of strength thats not necessarily true
Why I dont give this possibility much substance is because I dont believe any pro tennis athlete has enough time with their busy schedule playing grand slams,travelling and practising,to visit a gym enough times per week and put in the required effort and regiment to develop and maintain a physique like that.Its a full time job
If you have or built a physique like that and you dont put the effort in to maintain it,then your muscles would catabolise especially if youre doing as much running as you do in tennis.That is a fact
This is why I believe Nadal when he says he doesnt do any of his training in the gym.
I dont believe any pro tennis athlete would intentionally want to bulk up like that when we have already said it would hinder movement,plus as I said before why would an athlete who claims to have so many career threatening injuries want to put strain on his ligaments and skeleton by gaining weight and risk possibly getting Osteoporosis on top of his so called Hoffa's syndrome
It is however entirely plausible for an athlete who is on steroids which contains growth hormones to develop a physique like that doing little to no weight training if its substituted by simple sit ups or push ups and various other forms of pilates strengthening exercises done on court,even if they are doing as much cardio while playing the game
As I said before,its not Nadals intention to get bigger,the fact that he is,is merely a side effect of being on steroids which contains growth hormones
It also explains how he can maintain such a muscular physique for several months while doing as much cardio on a daily basis,and then when you would normally deflate,suddenly lose and incredible amount of muscle tone
You ask me why I believe him when he says he doesnt use the gym,I believe him for the above reasons
I dont believe anyone who says they dont use PED"s just because they say so,so if Federer said I dont use PEDs I wont believe him just because he says so,I will use the pattern and evidence thats available to me and base my opinion on that

Muscle catabolism in endurance sports has zero to do with nutrition and everything to do with cardio.Do you not think marathon runners are on specific diets and getting the proper nutrition to get the most of their bodies? All pro athletes are getting the proper nutrition but yet they develop a physique thats consistent with the type of exercise they do
The only reason I brought this subject up is because as I said above if you have a muscular physique and you start doing long distance running or a lot of cardio,you will start to run your muscle tone away,the longer you keep doing it the more your muscles will catabolise.
You didnt show me a screen shot of the longest AO match,the picture said 2010,not 2012,but what irks me most about this is that you used a picture which was totally fine for you to do but when I used on you claimed it was photoshopped!!
Youre right marathon running is very different from tennis in most ways but when it comes to endurance sports the similarities across the board is consistent
All sports where a lot of running is done over a lengthy period of time have athletes which have similar sorts physiques,long lean muscles.A body builders physique is not consistent with someone who runs marathons,or vice versa,because the type of exercise you do moulds your physique -thats the point
The photo I used of Nadal is not consistent and natural for someone who does a lot of running unless drugs are involved
I also used that picture cause anyone who knows about steroids would tell you that that is what he would look like at the peak of his cycle

As for Agassi,I wouldnt call withholding a failed drugs test for over 10 years a delay,its quite obvious it was never their intention to disclose it,if it was they would have no? The explanation was excepted? Really I didnt know that,could you go into detail with that,cause Id like to know what I have missed
Yes I do admit that I believe if any one of the sports biggest names failed a drugs test that the ITF would not disclose it
Federer even recently said that he believed that the worst thing that could happen to the sport would be for one of its top players to be exposed a a drugs cheat
I dont trust WADA or the ITF because where there are large amounts of money involved there is usually a lot of corruption

No I dont at all think anyone will use me to try and catch Nadal but lest say I was called up in a court of law,my opinion on the matter would stand up just like asking a doctor or plastic surgeon for their expert opinion
If my anonymity online takes away my credibility then would that not apply to you too?
So whats the point of even discussing anything
Besides you have yet to dispute anything I have said with actual facts,you just kept spinning things around by asking more questions
I asked you to give me a plausible explanation to why I would lie about anything,I am still waiting for that
Of course I am sure that several people working for WADA has their own suspicions like me and probably know far more about doping then I do,but working in the environment that they do,what more can they do if someone passes a drugs test?
But just because someone passes a drugs test doesnt automatically mean an athlete isnt doping
How many tests did Marion Jones pass before she was finally caught?
Doping doctors are employed to keep athletes ahead of the game,and as long as there is a will there is a way

Explain to me how I am not objective,how many times do I have to say I am open to the possibility that any athlete could be doping,I will only accuse someone who I am 100% certain of,others I am suspicious of within reason
I am looking at the bigger picture,not just singling one athlete out,being 100% certain of an athlete isnt singling them out,its being a 100% certain-nothing more nothing less
How do you expect me to monitor a player like Kendrick who I perhaps see 1 match of in an entire season? It becomes a lot harder to monitor the season of a lower ranked player
You attributed muscle catabolism due to lack of nutrient,sleep etc
But pro athletes dont suffer from bad nutrient because they are all on diets to enable them to get the most out of their bodies
They also know that the importance of resting your body is as important as working it out,if youre tired you cant push your body to the limits you want plus you run the risk of injuring yourself
Muscle catabolism for athletes who do a lot of running is purely down to cardio,as I said above,why do marathon runners have the physiques that they do?
You completely over looked this several times
Explain to me why a marathon runner has such a lean physique

Veejay wrote:TRuffin had mono and gave quite a compelling insight into what its like having it
Ill ask him to come and make a comment on about that.I do remember him saying that its quite inconsistent,something along the lines that youre not sick all the time.Anyway I will leave it to him
Its quite obvious,or at least its obvious to me that Roger had quite a mild case.If I remember correctly,they were unsure about the diagnosis and thought it was a ruptured spleen at first
I think too much is made out of Roger having had mono,he has never used it as an excuse for any loss and he played through it,if he was on court he was healthy enough to compete.He has also never given us a reason to doubt him,his word is credible,if his camp says he has mono then he has mono
What having mono did do was set him back,he was unable to prepare during the off season so he spent much of the 08 season trying to catch up
The side effects also affected his performance from time to time but he has never blamed any loss during 08 on having mono

I could ask the same of you,do you have a case to back your suspicions about Roger doping up? Or is it just pure speculation,cause if thats the case then why are you allowed to speculate but not me,and why does your speculation hold more weight then mine?
Theres information about these so called silent bans over on THASP,go have a look they explain in detail what the procedure is when a player fails a drugs test and the manner in which they disclose such information

Whats more plausible...and injury or a silent ban? LOL when it comes to Nadal an injury is probably the very very very least plausible possible scenario,maybe he isnt serving a silent ban,but one thing we know is...the last thing Nadal is,is injured

The argument about Federer having a motive makes no sense,if mono was his motive in 08,surely losing the ranking and going into a slamless drought for 2 seasons would be enough motive for him to consider doping again
Bottom line is,if Roger did dope,he wouldnt be consistent,his results would depend on his cycles,there would be a significant drop in form when he cycles down.You cant produce that kind of consistency throughout an entire season if you depend on the drugs to enhance your ability
But lets say he did,why then did he still suffer from the side effects of having mono
If Federer was doping,no one would have stood a chance against him,and as I said before why stop doping,why not continue to dope?

Where ever and when ever large amounts of money is involved theres almost certainly a lot of corruption.Soprt by nature is extremely competitive and some people lose sight and are willing to do anything it takes to win,even if its cheating
You cant be so naive to think that its not going on or at least the possibility of it
Its pretty easy to dope and get way with it,plus dopers and doctors who help athletes dope are usually always ahead of the testing
If youre open to he possibility that doping happens in sport and tennis then you have to be open to the possibility that any single athlete could be doping,including the heavy weights
I am curious to know why you think Fuentes would list Nadal as one of his clients if that wasnt true? It cant be such garbage if the guy is standing trail,there wouldnt be a trail if the law wasnt broken and there wasnt any evidence to implicate Fuentes

With regards to Mono- I along with my brother were scolarship doubles players with a respected college program back in the day. I came down with Mono my junior year. It was miserable, tired all the time- but I went to classes, went to practice, went 11-1 in matches with my brother in Southern Conference (the top tennis conference in the USA at that time) It was a tough for sure, but doable. I had a mild case. In terms of tennis, I could basically play at my top level, but just not as long. Instead of 8 hours of sleep the night before, 10 hours. I didn't feel good, but about on par with a niggling muscle injury you play through. Now the counterpoint was my girlfriends roomate also caught mono that year (no not from me :-)) - Long story short. the poor girl ended up in hospital, couldn't go to classes and dropped out for two semesters.. Was I tougher than her? No.........she simply had a much more serious case. That's why this theory that Federer couldn't have Mono becaue he was still so successful while other guys are out for a year is ridiculous. Just like some walk around with cancer and others are laid up in the hospital, there are different degrees,variations. Federers trainer had a wonderfull interview about it a year of so ago. He called it the most couragous performance he's ever been around for Federer to play the full schedule while clearly sapped.. talked about how it affected their training program,etc....

With this Nadal injury... many from other forums also know my work carreer was spent with athletes in the marketing side... I have been around some of the best in the world, and witnessed first hand them training with soft tissue knee injuries, and esp torn patella tendons. There is no possible way that Nadal could have been jet sking, water skiing, jumping off of 3 story yachts feet 1st into the water like the pictures showed of him on his vacation after his Wimbledon loss. His team is now saying the tendon tear was there in additon to the soft tissue syndrome. Impossible. Nadal himself posted pictures of his doing activities like jet sking, golf that jsut aren't doable without extreme pain. Just the golf swing alone uses the patella to generate energy... What does that all mean? I don't know in the big picture, but I do know the injuries announcements aren't realistic.

His team is now saying the tendon tear was there in additon to the soft tissue syndrome. Impossible

So the fact you have no medical background makes this absolutely certain?

Classic.

truffin1 wrote:

With regards to Mono- I along with my brother were scolarship doubles players with a respected college program back in the day. I came down with Mono my junior year. It was miserable, tired all the time- but I went to classes, went to practice, went 11-1 in matches with my brother in Southern Conference (the top tennis conference in the USA at that time) It was a tough for sure, but doable. I had a mild case. In terms of tennis, I could basically play at my top level, but just not as long. Instead of 8 hours of sleep the night before, 10 hours. I didn't feel good, but about on par with a niggling muscle injury you play through. Now the counterpoint was my girlfriends roomate also caught mono that year (no not from me :-)) - Long story short. the poor girl ended up in hospital, couldn't go to classes and dropped out for two semesters.. Was I tougher than her? No.........she simply had a much more serious case. That's why this theory that Federer couldn't have Mono becaue he was still so successful while other guys are out for a year is ridiculous. Just like some walk around with cancer and others are laid up in the hospital, there are different degrees,variations. Federers trainer had a wonderfull interview about it a year of so ago. He called it the most couragous performance he's ever been around for Federer to play the full schedule while clearly sapped.. talked about how it affected their training program,etc....

With this Nadal injury... many from other forums also know my work carreer was spent with athletes in the marketing side... I have been around some of the best in the world, and witnessed first hand them training with soft tissue knee injuries, and esp torn patella tendons. There is no possible way that Nadal could have been jet sking, water skiing, jumping off of 3 story yachts feet 1st into the water like the pictures showed of him on his vacation after his Wimbledon loss. His team is now saying the tendon tear was there in additon to the soft tissue syndrome. Impossible. Nadal himself posted pictures of his doing activities like jet sking, golf that jsut aren't doable without extreme pain. Just the golf swing alone uses the patella to generate energy... What does that all mean? I don't know in the big picture, but I do know the injuries announcements aren't realistic.

Thanks for sharing that, Tim.
And keep us posted on any new developments

legendkillar wrote:

Veejay wrote:When did I ever say or imply that 1 high profile athlete listed = Nadal?
Dont put words in my mouth,I said that for the list to be sealed there has to be at least 1 high profile athlete listed,otherwise whats the point?
Who cares if Fuentes treated a bunch of nobodies,there would be no need for a super injunction
Youre free to believe whatever you want,at the end of the day theres evidence which either implicates Nadal or proves his innocence
If he is listed then what more do you need,if he isnt listed then that should prove his innocence in the matter no?
You still havent told me why a news paper would report that Fuentes listed Nadal as a client of his,would that be because they are bias?
Its pretty damaging,I find it hard to believe that a credible professional newspaper would be so cavalier with a high profile athletes name like that

I dont think there has been any witch hunt,but I can see why you may feel like that,if you could have disputed or addressed any points I made you would have,but you didn't so the only conclusion one can make is that you couldnt

Sorry but I dont buy your opinion that Federer would be the first to expose a cover up.Federer himself said just a few weeks back that he believed that the sport would suffer and the reputation be damaged if any one of the top players were caught doping
Youre free to read into that and the timing which ever way you want,but what you and many people need to understand is that its not Federer or Djokovic who are voicing their suspicions,and none of us are them so you and I cannot speak for them,we dont know what they know,we dont know how it will make them feel and we dont know how they will react
It is however obvious that none of them will embark in a witch hunt especially if they have no proof,and judging by a few tweets from certain players,just because no one says anything in the media,doesnt mean theres no of talk about it in the locker room.If the talk has led to nothing then you have to wonder why not,could be for a number of reason,could even be because Federer and Djokovic are doping too.Besides youre not going to shoot yourself in the foot by trying to expose someone if youre dopingyourself
Youre right how Nadal wishes to spend his time rehabilitating his injuries is his business,just dont expect me to believe youre injured if everything youre documented doing suggest the complete opposite
And dont use your injuries to try and gain an unfair advantage

Thats not explaining the reason for his absence,thats only he excuse.Two very different things

So the fact we were discussing Nadal and you threw Fuentes into the discussion and then backtrack claiming that because you didn't come out and say it, insinuating is not so different now is it? So stop dancing around and just back your beliefs.

A newspaper listed Nadal and yet had no evidence to back the source? How is that credible? Shall I write a newspaper article and claim that Federer and Djokovic dope on the back of speculation? Because 'tennis players' dope? You talk about the spin the Nadal PR machine puts out and yet conveniently overlook that newspapers make a living out of the doing the same thing? Interesting.

I even more surprised that you think Federer would not call for transparancy if someone was doping. A guy who takes his duty on the ATP council very seriously and has always felt he had a personal responsibility for the game. Does disagreeing with Nadal on protected rankings ring any bells? No? How about the Hit for Haiti? No. How about the Australian floods and the charity matches he done? No Oh well let me enlighten you to those facts. If a guy like Federer who has done such things and acted like he had a personal obligation to the game when arranging such events or sitting on the players council would suggest to me that the guy is someone not to duck controversy.

So the fact that Nadal has claimed injury for his absence is not substantiated because you choose not believe that makes it any less of a fact? Sorry but he has declared himself injured. Unless you have something otherwise, I can't see how this can be disputed as anything else.

I never threw Fuentes into the mix,you were the one who brought it up making a mockery of the up and coming trail
I asked Laverfan to prove that the newspaper had no evidence,I dont have anything to support that,so I merely asked the question why a professional newspaper would be so cavalier with such a high profile athletes name
Its quite a serious accusation,the worst thing a pro athlete can be accused of is cheating so I dont understand why they would do such a thing if they didnt have any proof.I'm merely asking a question cause it makes no logical sense to me,Im not implying that they did have proof by asking why they'd do would do something like that,thats why I am asking you to confirm to me via a credible link that they in fact had no proof whatsoever
Youre right newspapers make incorrect accusations all the time,but thats mostly tabloids.How can a credible professional newspaper run a story with such damaging information and not even stop to think of the implications-how unprofessional is that?Even I know that before I could ever write an article claiming that Nadal was a client of Fuentes,I would need something concrete to back it up and Im not even a journalist

Federer,Nadal et all are all corporate slaves,people think they are managed by IMG,its actually the complete opposite.They are owned by IMG.Even they understand what a big business sport is,has nothing to do with the game itself anymore,its all about ratings,endorsements,interest,sponsorship,advertising,brands and profit at all costs.Federer is not going to go around making accusations with no proof,he would be shooting himself in the foot,especially if he was accusing someone he has lost more time to then beaten,he'd look like a sore loser
He makes a few accusations about players doping,you watch his endorsements drop him faster then his whistle blowing.The media will go on a smearing campaign,dishing the dirt to try and make him lose all credibility.Its the way the mainstream media always deals with whistle blowers,they try to discredit the persons credibility so that no one takes them seriously,like how Noahs drug use was being used to discredit him,ie he s smoking too much pot
Everyone saw the backlash Yannick Noahs comments received,wont be any different for Federer
Now if he had proof to back his claims up then perhaps I could see him try to out someone like you're suggesting but without an actual failed drugs test in his possession whats the point?
But at the end of the day as I previously said all you and I can do is speculate,we arent him so we cant really speak for him
Theres even the possibility that Roger is doping himself,a doper wouldnt be so stupid as to open the pandoras box,could come back and bite him too,cause lets say a high profile athlete gets exposed,the ripple effect would be that the sport gets cleaned up,youd see a similar scenario to whats happened in cycling,people will come forward and could expose him if he were doping too

I have given you the reasons why I dont believe Nadal's injury is factual,its entirely plausible that its just the excuse but my opinion remains that he isnt injured.I say this because I dont believe Nadal would have withdrawn from Wimbledon had he won the match with Rosol,I believe he would have continued playing.I base this on previous injuries and time outs he has had at Wimbledon where he has claimed to have had injuries serious enough to need to have MRI cans and anaesthetics,correct me if Im wrong but the only time I remembering him actually withdrawing due to injury was at the 2011 AO against Murray but only after being 2 sets and a double break down,the following year he finished his match with Ferrer on a pulled hamstring which was later diagnosed as an abductor longus injury.Most times he manages to make the finals or win while having overcome whatever injury he had during a bumpy victory in earlier rounds
Had he won his match with Rosol,he most likely would have played the rest of the tournament on a torn patella in addition to "soft tissue syndrome",perhaps even winning the title.I find it hard to believe someone who is constantly voicing the problems he has with his knees would risk aggravating such an injury by continuing to play on it if he was truly injured,if he is withdrawing from tournaments because he is too injured how do you then explain him possibly continuing to compete on such an injury

If you disagree with this thats fine but Id like you to explain to me how he could have continued to compete on such an injury,am I wrong and is it entirely plausible?

legendkillar wrote:

His team is now saying the tendon tear was there in additon to the soft tissue syndrome. Impossible

So the fact you have no medical background makes this absolutely certain?

Classic.

If you disagree and you believe its entirely plausible can you talk us through it Legendkiller?
I for one would love to know

Veejay wrote:You are unwilling to entertain any conspiracy theories but yet you dont mind voicing a few of your own
i.e the photographs are photoshopped...yet you havent even given me a single reason to believe they are

I even gave you examples. Yet you are unable to accept it. You can continue with what you consider valid.

Veejay wrote:Lenld will disavow himself from Murray if Murray were taking PED's. What are you basing this on,apart from your assumptions and presumptions,its pure speculation

A reputed Tennis player, with no prior coaching experience whatsoever, comes back into Tennis, to be tainted with doping? Wonderful.

Veejay wrote:You constantly hint and this and hint at that,implying this and implying that,your comments are filled with innuendo...but yet you never actually say anything.I can see straight through you,this way youre never really held accountable for anything you say
You strike me as one of those kinds of people who will jump on the "I told you so" bandwagon" the day Nadal gest exposed for being a drugs cheat
ad then justify it by saying,"well I was only ever going to believe what WADA or the ITF said"

That is why I had an argument on this thread regarding LA and TH. You just have to go back a few pages.

Veejay wrote:Can you give me a plausible explanation why Journal du Dimanche would loosely link Nadal to Fuentes if they had no proof?I asked this before,why be so cavalier with one of sports highest profile players?Why put themselves at risk to be sued for libel and defamation of character?Why didnt the Nadal camp seek legal compensation? Can you also give me a link to prove that "Journal du Dimanche had no cojones to supply proof to ITF/WADA/RFET or the Spaniards " I would like to see evidence of that please

Nadal threatened to sue (I posted the ESPN link earlier). The original article is not even available on their official website. Many fora have variants of the original articles. Why? If Dimanche had the proof positive, why did they not stick to their story? ITF asked the Spanish officials and was told no footballers or tennis players were involved.

On Monday, Nadal said at Wimbledon that he was considering suing a French newspaper which loosely linked him to the Spanish doping probe.

"We have today been assured in writing by the Spanish Ministry of Education and Science that no tennis players, either Spanish or foreign, are under investigation," ITF president Francesco Ricci Bitti said.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/tennis/wimb/2006-07-05-notes_x.htm

Veejay wrote:Can you also give me a link to prove that "Journal du Dimanche had no cojones to supply proof to ITF/WADA/RFET or the Spaniards " I would like to see evidence of that please

Why is the original article from 2006 Jun/Jul on the Dimanche website no longer available?

Veejay wrote:Guilt by association?No guilt by association Laverfan,dont put words in my mouth,perhaps suspicion by association,but not guilt-BIG difference No one ever said Ferrer was guilty,I only voiced my suspicion of him because you brought it up,You asked me why theres no consistency re Ferrer,I pointed out there there is suspicion which is consistent with the reasons why many are suspicious about other players.You keep trying to prove that only 1 athlete keeps being singled out,how many times do I have to tell you this is not the case,how many times do I have to tell you that I wont accuse anyone unless I am 100% certain

How many tennis players are you 100% certain about? Name more than one.

Veejay wrote:I am not 100% certain of Ferrer but because of being linked to a dr who has recently been accused of doping violations and because there are characteristics which are consistent with the reasons why I am suspicious of others players,means I am completely open to the possibility that Ferrerr could have or is doping,I believe its entirely plausible
But let me ask you this,if Ferrer wasnt linked to Dr Luis Garcia for reasons to do with doping,can you give me a plausible explanation for the reasons why he is linked to Dr Garcia at all? If you want to dispute guilt by association then there has to be a legitimate reasons why he is links to dr Garcia

Ferrer trains in Valencia where Dr. Garcia was employed by the Academy where Sara Errani (among others) also trains.

She said Wednesday she would not continue seeing Garcia del Moral, a doctor at the academy in Valencia, Spain, where she and other tennis players have trained.

http://straightsets.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/06/errani-tries-to-distance-herself-from-barred-spanish-doctor/

Veejay wrote:Its not like Federer who happened to be a close friend of Woods or was linked to someone because of the company that represents him,it is not the same thing Laverfan,thats a pathetic comparison unless you can prove to me that dr Luis Garcia and Ferrer are BFF's

Tiger Woods was treated by Tony Galea. http://www.golf.com/ap-news/woodss-doctor-anthony-galea-pleads-guilty-bringing-banned-drugs-us

BTW, I have now heard pathetic several times. This is the last time I will respond to such comments. You can carry on anyway you want.

Veejay wrote:There is absolutely nothing wrong with my logic as I have always stated that if Im suspicious of one athlete then I am open to the possibility that any athlete is doping,by the same token if one Spanish athlete is caught doping and their own prime minister is involved in exonerating the accused athlete then naturally I will be open to the possibility that any Spanish athlete could be doping and that possibly the exact same would happen if they so happen to be caught
My suspicions of certain athletes aren't baseless either and certainly not solely because of their nationality,dont try and twist things so that it seems that way
At the same time you cannot ignore that certain countries have bigger problem with doping the others,the problem seems to be more wide spread due to the fact that even their authorities are willing to be involved in cover ups,its not like David Cameron or Obama is exonerating dopers,so while I am open to the possibility that any athlete from these countries could be doping,I am automatically less suspicious across the board because there seems to be much stricter policy when it comes to doping then that of Spain

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2033444/Nick-Harris-Britain-takes-gold-comes-testing-drugs.html

As you can see theres plenty of reason to be suspicious of athletes hailing from Spain for the reasons stated in the link,you may call it being racist,I call it being realistic.The other thing thats completely outlandish about your comparison ( once again) is that its not like linking every German to Hitler,we are specifically talking about Spanish athletes here,not every single Spanish person

Dick Pound went after the US organizations. If there is so much suspicion, perhaps FFT and AELTC make it a condition for participation to have mandatory tests, otherwise disallow specific countries. It is very similar to the Arms deals that govern Western governments. They are legally prohibited from supplying arms to regimes that are not compliant with international laws.

You know about the Chinese swimmers and the East German coaches, correct? China has only Li Na as a high visibility player and no male players in the Top 100, IIRC. I do not want to make this a political discussion, but human rights is also an important aspect.

Veejay wrote:

"This is providing you grounds to accuse Nadal whenever he comes back, whether he looks ripped or not of how he does not look 'right'. "

Yes,if you have a problem with it dispute it.I have asked you several times to answer the questions I asked,you know as well as I do that the reason why you avoid answering them is because there is no plausible explanation for anyone to develop a physique like that with little to no weight training especially if they are doing that much cardio.Instead of answering the question you try to twist things by asking more questions and point out that Im assuming things ( when the Nadal camp already admitted that he does all his training on court)
To ask me how we know he doesnt do weight training doesnt answer the questions Laverfan.The question was very specific,I even suggested that we take Nadal out of the equation and discuss the possibility that any athlete could develop a physique like that with little to no weight training,you simply ignored that
Does the part of the questions that says "little to no weight training" not rule out discussing whether he uses a gym or not? Thats not the point Laverfan,the questions very specifically asks- with little to no weight training.Its not rocket science so why do you keep ignoring that part?
But lets entertain your idea for the minute,lets say he does do weight training
There is no way anyone who does weight training and as much cardio as Nadal does on a daily basis,can become that big.Its impossible because of the cardio,no matter what the balance is,for you to get that big you would have to do significantly less running,we all know thats not going to happen while they are playing tennis competitivelyThis is why you will never see a body builder on a treadmill,cause they are scared of running their muscle tone way,barring in mind that they are on drugs and possibility of that even happening while on drugs is slim to none,yet it still scares them so much that they'd rather not risk it and instead diet to make sure they keep the fat off
The other thing that works against the possibility is that for you to develop such a physique,it would take several hours of weight training no less then 5-6 times per week and even then without the drugs there is no way you will ever achieve that "inflated " look.That "inflated" look can only be achieved by using steroids which contains growth hormones-by this I mean that if I had to squeeze Nadals biceps,the only way I can describe it would be like squeezing water out of a sponge thats full of water.The steroids creates a visual illusion of strength thats not necessarily true
Why I dont give this possibility much substance is because I dont believe any pro tennis athlete has enough time with their busy schedule playing grand slams,travelling and practising,to visit a gym enough times per week and put in the required effort and regiment to develop and maintain a physique like that.Its a full time job
If you have or built a physique like that and you dont put the effort in to maintain it,then your muscles would catabolise especially if youre doing as much running as you do in tennis.That is a fact
This is why I believe Nadal when he says he doesnt do any of his training in the gym.
I dont believe any pro tennis athlete would intentionally want to bulk up like that when we have already said it would hinder movement,plus as I said before why would an athlete who claims to have so many career threatening injuries want to put strain on his ligaments and skeleton by gaining weight and risk possibly getting Osteoporosis on top of his so called Hoffa's syndrome
It is however entirely plausible for an athlete who is on steroids which contains growth hormones to develop a physique like that doing little to no weight training if its substituted by simple sit ups or push ups and various other forms of pilates strengthening exercises done on court,even if they are doing as much cardio while playing the game
As I said before,its not Nadals intention to get bigger,the fact that he is,is merely a side effect of being on steroids which contains growth hormones
It also explains how he can maintain such a muscular physique for several months while doing as much cardio on a daily basis,and then when you would normally deflate,suddenly lose and incredible amount of muscle tone
You ask me why I believe him when he says he doesnt use the gym,I believe him for the above reasons
I dont believe anyone who says they dont use PED"s just because they say so,so if Federer said I dont use PEDs I wont believe him just because he says so,I will use the pattern and evidence thats available to me and base my opinion on that

The only difference between the physiques of Murray and Nadal (not Federer) is the visibility of those dreaded biceps. I would suggest you watch the Federer-Murray SF from this morning and then compare Nadal and Murray physique.

Veejay wrote:Muscle catabolism in endurance sports has zero to do with nutrition and everything to do with cardio.Do you not think marathon runners are on specific diets and getting the proper nutrition to get the most of their bodies? All pro athletes are getting the proper nutrition but yet they develop a physique thats consistent with the type of exercise they do
The only reason I brought this subject up is because as I said above if you have a muscular physique and you start doing long distance running or a lot of cardio,you will start to run your muscle tone away,the longer you keep doing it the more your muscles will catabolise.
You didnt show me a screen shot of the longest AO match,the picture said 2010,not 2012,but what irks me most about this is that you used a picture which was totally fine for you to do but when I used on you claimed it was photoshopped!!

https://imgur.com/1mG2n

The only instance of a Nadal-Djokovic match at AO is AO 2012. The scoreline is from 2012, a 5-set match. The top line says '2012 Australian Open Tennis - Men's Final - Part 1.mp4'. It is a screen capture from the MPEG4 recording of the ESPN telecast in the US. I have checked the image twice now.

Veejay wrote:Youre right marathon running is very different from tennis in most ways but when it comes to endurance sports the similarities across the board is consistent
All sports where a lot of running is done over a lengthy period of time have athletes which have similar sorts physiques,long lean muscles.A body builders physique is not consistent with someone who runs marathons,or vice versa,because the type of exercise you do moulds your physique -thats the point
The photo I used of Nadal is not consistent and natural for someone who does a lot of running unless drugs are involved
I also used that picture cause anyone who knows about steroids would tell you that that is what he would look like at the peak of his cycle

As I have stated earlier, the bicep size has nothing to with the rest of the musculature. There are many instances of players having their right or left side develop more than the other. You can find many examples over the years. There is also the Credit Suisse 'Match for Africa' promotion where Federer and Nadal are sitting side-by-side. There was a comment about that bicep. I would recommend watching the same video (not an image) and we can discuss further.

Veejay wrote:As for Agassi,I wouldnt call withholding a failed drugs test for over 10 years a delay,its quite obvious it was never their intention to disclose it,if it was they would have no? The explanation was excepted? Really I didnt know that,could you go into detail with that,cause Id like to know what I have missed
Yes I do admit that I believe if any one of the sports biggest names failed a drugs test that the ITF would not disclose it
Federer even recently said that he believed that the worst thing that could happen to the sport would be for one of its top players to be exposed a a drugs cheat
I dont trust WADA or the ITF because where there are large amounts of money involved there is usually a lot of corruption

Agassi said the ATP reviewed the case, accepted his explanation and threw it out. The tour responded with a statement, noting an independent panel makes the final decision on a doping violation.

"The ATP has always followed this rule, and no executive at the ATP has therefore had the authority or ability to decide the outcome of an anti-doping matter," the statement said.

The International Tennis Federation said it was "surprised and disappointed" by Agassi's revelations.

"Such comments in no way reflect the fact that the tennis anti-doping program is currently regarded as one of the most rigorous and comprehensive anti-doping programs in sport," the ITF said in a statement.

In the past three years, the organization has begun overseeing anti-doping efforts on behalf of the ATP and WTA tours.

"The events in question occurred before the World Anti-Doping Agency was founded in 1999 and during the formative years of anti-doping in tennis, when the program was managed by individual governing bodies," the ITF said.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/news/story?id=4600027

Does this help you in a plausible explanation regarding the Agassi case?

Veejay wrote:No I dont at all think anyone will use me to try and catch Nadal but lest say I was called up in a court of law,my opinion on the matter would stand up just like asking a doctor or plastic surgeon for their expert opinion
If my anonymity online takes away my credibility then would that not apply to you too?
So whats the point of even discussing anything
Besides you have yet to dispute anything I have said with actual facts,you just kept spinning things around by asking more questions
I asked you to give me a plausible explanation to why I would lie about anything,I am still waiting for that
Of course I am sure that several people working for WADA has their own suspicions like me and probably know far more about doping then I do,but working in the environment that they do,what more can they do if someone passes a drugs test?
But just because someone passes a drugs test doesnt automatically mean an athlete isnt doping
How many tests did Marion Jones pass before she was finally caught?
Doping doctors are employed to keep athletes ahead of the game,and as long as there is a will there is a way

Dick Pound, head of WADA till 2007, has written a book after retirement. So can the WADA employees. They can also turn whistle blowers. If they are complicit with the system, so be it. There is no need to have THASP spin conjectures into facts. Dick Pound also tried to defend Ben Johnson at Seoul 1988, as I have noted earlier, and he states his motivations clearly.

Doping doctors are employed to keep athletes ahead of the game, by the players not by governing bodies.

Veejay wrote:Explain to me how I am not objective,how many times do I have to say I am open to the possibility that any athlete could be doping,I will only accuse someone who I am 100% certain of,others I am suspicious of within reason
I am looking at the bigger picture,not just singling one athlete out,being 100% certain of an athlete isnt singling them out,its being a 100% certain-nothing more nothing less
How do you expect me to monitor a player like Kendrick who I perhaps see 1 match of in an entire season? It becomes a lot harder to monitor the season of a lower ranked player

... then imagine WADA's job.

Veejay wrote:You attributed muscle catabolism due to lack of nutrient,sleep etc
But pro athletes dont suffer from bad nutrient because they are all on diets to enable them to get the most out of their bodies
They also know that the importance of resting your body is as important as working it out,if youre tired you cant push your body to the limits you want plus you run the risk of injuring yourself
Muscle catabolism for athletes who do a lot of running is purely down to cardio,as I said above,why do marathon runners have the physiques that they do?
You completely over looked this several times
Explain to me why a marathon runner has such a lean physique

An athlete who drops from a 12K or 5K diet to at 3K diet, with a very high metabolic rate, will catabolise muscles much faster, because they are the easiest and most proximal source of energy. If an injured player stays with such a high K diet, adipose accumulation is very likely. Marathon runners need very little muscle, they need lighter bodies to run at a steady pace. A Tennis player needs a balanced body, between a sprinter and body builder, for strength and endurance both.


For example, there are 5+ hour matches played in Tennis before Nadal showed up. There is a certain Mr. John P. McEnroe who played two 6+ hour matches, as an example, DC 1982 v Wilander, DC 1987 v Becker. Wilander played three. Nadal is just one in a long line extremely fit athletes. There is an obvious musculature difference between McEnroe and Nadal.

Veejay wrote:
I asked Laverfan to prove that the newspaper had no evidence,I dont have anything to support that,so I merely asked the question why a professional newspaper would be so cavalier with such a high profile athletes name
Its quite a serious accusation,the worst thing a pro athlete can be accused of is cheating so I dont understand why they would do such a thing if they didnt have any proof.I'm merely asking a question cause it makes no logical sense to me,Im not implying that they did have proof by asking why they'd do would do something like that,thats why I am asking you to confirm to me via a credible link that they in fact had no proof whatsoever
Youre right newspapers make incorrect accusations all the time,but thats mostly tabloids.How can a credible professional newspaper run a story with such damaging information and not even stop to think of the implications-how unprofessional is that?Even I know that before I could ever write an article claiming that Nadal was a client of Fuentes,I would need something concrete to back it up and Im not even a journalist

Why are tabloids the only source of speculation? Dimanche has never provided public proof of their accusations and has always hidden behind source confidentiality. If they provided such proof to authorised organisations, which were then not made public, could be cause enough for a scandal to ensue.

Why is Dimanche considered more credible than the official denial from the Spanish government when ITF asked them specifically about details. Yet Spanish authorities were willing to provide details for cyclists only, but categorically denied other sports' involvement.

This thread is interesting. Doping is everywhere, including in tennis.

The rest is not that relevant.

I find it fascinating that people so vehemently deny doping as a problem.
You just need to look at athletes' bodies and compare them to those of 50 years ago.
Jessie Owens is most likely to be the best sprinter of all times, not Carl Lewis and certainly not Usain Bolt.

noleisthebest wrote:I find it fascinating that people so vehemently deny doping as a problem.
You just need to look at athletes' bodies and compare them to those of 50 years ago.

It's not so much the way they look NITB, it's the way they play.

Look at the kind of rallies between Fed and Wawrinka and compare that to tomorrow's tennis.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:I find it fascinating that people so vehemently deny doping as a problem.
You just need to look at athletes' bodies and compare them to those of 50 years ago.

It's not so much the way they look NITB, it's the way they play.

Look at the kind of rallies between Fed and Wawrinka and compare that to tomorrow's tennis.

It's a lot how they look as well. What's life come to if cyclists shave their bodies in order to give themselves an aerodynamic advantage, stuff that!

As for last century and modern tennis, I'd like to believe that Nadal took it to the end of the physical road and hit the dead-end.
I say, ban double backhand and all will revert back to normal

noleisthebest wrote:What's life come to if cyclists shave their bodies in order to give themselves an aerodynamic advantage, stuff that!

The winner is decided on very small margins. They are trying to shave the last 0.05 seconds (pun intended ). There is now special material used by Speedo to reduce water resistance and skull caps are specifically designed for swimmers to reduce drag in the water.

But Le Clos, 20, edged out Phelps on the final stroke, winning in one minute 1:52.96 seconds, just 0.05 seconds ahead of Phelps, who came in at 1:53.01. Japan's Takeshi Matsuda placed third.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatches/globalpost-blogs/world-at-play/south-african-swimmer-chad-le-clos-beats-michael-phelps-butterfly

Korean fencer Shin a-Lam lost to German Heidemann in Women's Epee competition, because the match clock did not go below 1 second and this crucial 1 second was put back on the clock for Heidemann to win a medal because the Austrian referee Barbara Csar chose to do so.

http://www.standard.co.uk/olympics/olympic-news/london-2012-olympics-tears-at-fencing-as-south-koreas-shin-a-lam-loses-in-last-second-7988021.html

This is how close it gets now.

Photofinishes are very common in short sprints and ice events. - http://www.london2012.com/news/articles/spirig-takes-photo-finish-triathlon-gold.html

Do you think this was available when Jesse Owens was in 1936 Berlin Olympics?

Usain Bolt and others are just pushing the boundaries of what Bannister and many others started before he showed up - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWqwi6FcyH8

[/quote] It's a lot how they look as well. What's life come to if cyclists shave their bodies in order to give themselves an aerodynamic advantage, stuff that! [/quote]

You know that isn't why they do it. It is so they can to clean out wounds, sticking plasters stay on better and come off less painfully, personal aesthetic considerations not streamline! (Swimmers save 2% energy!!). Many more of this comes from the wonderful world of QI!

legendkillar wrote:

His team is now saying the tendon tear was there in additon to the soft tissue syndrome. Impossible

So the fact you have no medical background makes this absolutely certain?

Classic.

Do you have any medical background to question the above statement?

Classic.

legendkillar wrote:

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:An interesting read on existence of silent bans or suspensions.

http://www.tennisnow.com/News/Doping,-Tennis,-Nadal-Connection.aspx

It is very ambiguous in my view. Provisional suspensions are not what I call silent.

Do we hear any news about anyone undergoing provisional suspension? If we don't then its silent.

legendkillar wrote:
Look at the Kendrick case. He was banned for a year and it took effect in June 17th and was not released to the public until June 29th. We are talking 12 days. He tested positive on 22nd May and still played up until June 12th. So technically he wasn't banned.

You misread it.

kendrick tested positive on May 22, 2011.
His Provisional suspension started on June 17, 2011. During this period he could have continued to play.
July 29th, 2011 the news about his failed drug test and his 1 year ban was made public.

So from June 17, 2011 - July 29, 2011. So it was 1 month and 12 days. He was under provisional suspension and nothing was made public. If he was missing any tournament, he could easily have declared a fake injury. Had Kendrick won his case, this missing case would have all appeared due to an injury. I have checked ATP's site and he didn't play anything in 2011 during June 17 - July 29. I don't know what reason did he declare for his absence. But moreover who cares about why such a low ranked player is missing a tournament, I don't think many would even take notice of his absence.


Also "ITF documents indicate he volunteered to be placed on a provisional suspension.."

Maybe possible Nadal also volunteered for a provisional suspension. He looked absolutely certain to miss Olympics.

But also indicate there might be a possibility of a player challenging even a provisional suspension.

legendkillar wrote:The Korda one holds no substance either as he was still playing beyond Wimbledon when tested positive!

There might be some clauses for it, we don't know everything. Perhaps he challenged his provisional suspension. Perhaps his drug positive test was not very conclusive.


But my point was the existence and possibility of a suspension of an athlete without disclosing the real reason to the public. And its up to the player to give whatever reasons he/she wants to declare for his absence. I already gave an example of an athlete giving injury reason to hide a suspension/ban.

Why is it impossible that Nadal is under such suspension, till his case is reached a conclusion. He too might have volunteered for it just to "cooperate in the whole process". Since he is a very important player and his absence will certainly not go unnoticed, he chooses to hide it under an injury. We have already seen how inconsistent those injury talks are from him and his camp. A really injured player won't have such inconsistencies. And its not the first time for him, even to give him a benefit of doubt. We can't know everything. But I have good reasons to be suspicious.

laverfan wrote:

Veejay wrote:You are unwilling to entertain any conspiracy theories but yet you dont mind voicing a few of your own
i.e the photographs are photoshopped...yet you havent even given me a single reason to believe they are

I even gave you examples. Yet you are unable to accept it. You can continue with what you consider valid.

Examples huh?? Giving some other photoshoped images doesn't mean the images that veejay showed are photoshoped. You had to show that those images given by veejay were photoshoped and not bring out your own photoshoped images. If you have some photoshopped images it doesn't mean the image veejay has are also photoshoped.

Now to show how silly your examples are:

Veejay asks "Give reasons to believe that Nadal has been involved in doping?"

Laverfan brings out other tennis player's like Petr Korda, Guillermo Cañas who doped as examples.

Now you can have a at yourself.

laverfan wrote:A reputed Tennis player, with no prior coaching experience whatsoever, comes back into Tennis, to be tainted with doping? Wonderful.

Him needing some money is totally inconceivable, isn't it? Wonderful

laverfan wrote:

Veejay wrote:You constantly hint and this and hint at that,implying this and implying that,your comments are filled with innuendo...but yet you never actually say anything.I can see straight through you,this way youre never really held accountable for anything you say
You strike me as one of those kinds of people who will jump on the "I told you so" bandwagon" the day Nadal gest exposed for being a drugs cheat
ad then justify it by saying,"well I was only ever going to believe what WADA or the ITF said"

That is why I had an argument on this thread regarding LA and TH. You just have to go back a few pages.

You said nothing LF. All you ever do is have a counter-point. Now you go back many many pages on BBC 606, 606v2 and anywhere you want to see.

laverfan wrote: Nadal threatened to sue (I posted the ESPN link earlier). The original article is not even available on their official website. Many fora have variants of the original articles. Why? If Dimanche had the proof positive, why did they not stick to their story? ITF asked the Spanish officials and was told no footballers or tennis players were involved.

I have asked this before as well on your same point.

So why did Nadal only threatened to sue Dimanche? Why didn't he go ahead and actually took them down to court and finished them all? What was he afraid of? Why did he not try to clear his name if he didn't have anything to hide?

Now answer this and only this.

laverfan wrote: Why is the original article from 2006 Jun/Jul on the Dimanche website no longer available?

Because it its their policy in view of cost cutting and space saving not to keep things older than 5 years.

What does it matter if it is still available or not? If they have published it once, its enough for a libel.

laverfan wrote: How many tennis players are you 100% certain about? Name more than one.

Why? Why should he name more than one? Veejay doesn't take orders from you LF, please remember this. He has already named a few amny times in many articles and forums. Well , same thing, your poor memory

laverfan wrote: Ferrer trains in Valencia where Dr. Garcia was employed by the Academy where Sara Errani (among others) also trains.

She said Wednesday she would not continue seeing Garcia del Moral, a doctor at the academy in Valencia, Spain, where she and other tennis players have trained.

1. How is Ferrer linked when Sarra Errani said about not continuing to see del Moral?

2. Ferrer training in Valencia is enough reason for you to link him to del Moral ?? . Well, then every player ( starting from school kids, college pro or amateur ) who train in Valencia are linked to del Moral. Perhaps when I visited Valencia on a business trip, must have taken a few advice from del Moral.

Veejay, You are wasting time with LF. You already know what's her intent in any argument or discussion. I'm feeling bad for you since you have to keep typing so much and this person just has no intention to understanding it or replying you directly. Her sole intent is spinning its around changing goal-posts and diverting the whole discussion. Don't you see how irrelevant things she keeps writing? She has no point, she only has a counter point. She has no answers, and to avoid answering, she will post more useless and irrelevant questions.

LF is 'balanced'. You must know it by now.

Where are these examples Laverfan cause I have yet to see it?

"A reputed Tennis player, with no prior coaching experience whatsoever, comes back into Tennis, to be tainted with doping? Wonderful. "

Youre using your common sense to back your claims up but that doesnt prove anything Laverfan.Its still no less a conspiracy theory then the theories you attack people on THASP for having.Unless you can prove to a 100% certainty that Lendl will distance himself from Murray if Murray was doping,it remains pure speculation.You cannot speak for Lendl as youre not Lendl,you also cant completely exclude Lendl from possibly being morally corrupt but yet discuss the possibility that anyone else is.Its no different then me saying common sense excludes Federer from any suspicion about doping but then I go and accuse Nadal
Sometimes common sense doesnt win and stupidity triumphs so putting your faith in common sense doesnt always guarantee what you think it will
But I dont even know what this argument is all about as I never accused Murray of doping now,I claimed I believed he used Nandrolone while he was being coached by Brad Gilbert,not Lendl.Youre the one who brought Murray up and pointed out how big he has gotten over the last few months
What do you attribute him :getting bigger " to? How do you explain it?


Threatening to sue and suing are 2 different things Laverfan.TRuffin can back me up on this one.A lot of the times there are threats to sue to try and give the impression the allegations are false and compensation for libel or defamation of character is being pursued but no suing is ever done,its just used to create an illusion but then they hope the scandal quickly disappears so that when people remember the story they recall there being something about suing.
Sometimes they arent even attempting to sue for the actual allegations like the French skits for instance,the Spanish federation apparently threatened sue cause their logo was used,so all people remember is there was a threat to sue

Why didnt the Nadal camp threaten to sue T.V channel? Those skits were pretty damaging and I believe it left Nadal really upset
I can understand if he doesnt want to be involved in a legal battle that drags on and is played out like a soap opera in the media,but to me making a example of the French skits by suing their asses into the next millennium and clearing my reputation from a smearing campaign would really matter a lot more me if I was him
You havent given me a reason to believe the newspaper have had no proof,youre only leading me to assume that because they changed their story that that automatically means they had no proof-big difference
The mainstream media is mostly owned and controlled by the same group of people who hand select prime ministers and presidents,orchestrate wars for profit and print the money we use.Sport is a very powerful tool of theirs that is used to occupy peoples minds and distract them while keeping the majority completely ignorant to how they quietly take our freedom away while colonising the world.They throw billions into sport every year
People offen ask what that hideous 2012 Olympic logo was....cause it spells out " Zion"
Has the possibility ever occurred to you that Dimanche could have been pressured into changing their story by the power behind the mainstream media and forced to remove that article from existence? I ask this cause several independent reporters for several years had damaging evidence threatening to expose Wood's shenanigans and every time they tried to expose him,IMG was able to make it completely disappear,they would bribe the reporters with exclusive access to the Williams sisters,or threaten to deny any access to any of its superstar athletes,I recall one reporter even mentioned that the National Enquirer ditched the information cause the tabloid was somehow linked to the Reuters empire.I dont think its a coincidence that Tiger Woods could be such a high profile athlete and yet have control over so much of whats written about him
IMG is part of a intricate global infrastructure,a network run by Wall street,globalists and secret societies,IMG are like the CIA of sport,they have their hand in everything from the sponsors,to the media to owning the tournaments
Maybe the newspaper had no proof like you suggest,but the point Im trying to make is that Nadal is represented by people who could shut Journal du Dimanche down for good and cremate them

"On Monday, Nadal said at Wimbledon that he was considering suing a French newspaper which loosely linked him to the Spanish doping probe."

This I find very funny cause youre always the first to dismiss the credibility of any link posted but yet here you are conveniently believing whats written in one article
without any of your usual "how do we know this informaiton is credible".stuff I guess its easier for you to believe something as long as it suits your agenda

""We have today been assured in writing by the Spanish Ministry of Education and Science that no tennis players, either Spanish or foreign, are under investigation," ITF president Francesco Ricci Bitti said."

Correct me if Im wrong but hasnt this been proven to be a lie through operation Galgo,I recall the info over on THASP claimed that through operation Galgo Spanish officials were proven to have lied when they said no non cyclist athletes were involved.I tried finding it but too much scroll through.The other thing is that if Nadals name is mentioned on the list thats sealed by a high court Spanish judge then Fuentes' records will prove that no? Cause you cant just go around naming athletes if you cant prove they were clients of yours,if Nadals name isnt listed then that should clear him from this scandal,so in my opinion thats is proof

I know dr Lius Garcia was employed by the academy and I know Sarah Eranni,Marat Safin,Danaria Safina,Igor Andrieev and Maria Kirilinko were at the academy etc
But you havent given me a reason why Ferrer is linked dr Garcia if it has nothing to do with drugs.Was Garcia also coaching the players or were him and Ferrer just BBF's? An athlete being linked to a dr like dr Garcia isnt mere coincidence otherwise why would Nadal deny being linked to Fuentes?
The ITF claim that dr Garcia was practicing some sort of legitimate sporting medicine,so clearly there were drugs involved,but doesnt that raise suspicions when the dr is linked to a doping case and has been accused of doping violations?
Of course theres the possibility that it really was legitimate,but then why would players like Sarah Eranni immediately try to distance herself from dr Garcia,if its as innocent as its made out to be and theres nothing to hide.
But it doesnt surprise me that she did cause Garcia apparently told one cyclist that "youre not a professional if you dont take drugs"
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303703004577473003044421504.html

Yeah I know Tiger Woods was treated by Tony Galea using PRP technology,and I know that Galea was also caught smuggling HGH,but how does this prove Federer is guilty by association?
The link you provided doesnt in any way claim that Federer was also receiving treatments by Galea,youre merely linking him by the fact that he is linked to Woods.I havent even heard of anyone ever using this to link Roger to PED's
I never linked Ferrer to dr Garcia or anyone else to someone via a 3rd party,I merely pointed out that the link between Garcia and Ferrer helps create reasonable doubt on top of everything else.This linking by association via a 3rd person is like playing broken telephone,whats stoping you from linking anyone to anyone,like for instance me being being linked to you who is linked to someone at Wimbledon who is linked to Ferrer,its too far fetched to link Ferrer to my abuse of PED's

Nick Harris' commetns about Spain arent unfounded

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/26/doping-spain-ioc-idUSL3E7LQ1IZ20111026

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/simonhart/9731151/New_Spanish_law_on_drugtesting_could_wreck_Madrids_2016_Olympic_prospects/

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-criticises-spain-after-contador-decision

http://seattletimes.com/html/sports/2013053155_apcycdopingspain.html

While I remain open to the possibility that an athlete from any country can be doping,I dont have links like the above for any other country other the Spain
I therefore form the opinion that some countries have a bigger problem with doping then others,it has nothing to do with discrimination but has everything to do with the fact some countries try to tackle the problem more then others.I cannot say I know of any other country where the prime minister has been involved in exonerating a drugs cheat.That to me proves the problem in Spain is way bigger then people want to admit

"The only difference between the physiques of Murray and Nadal (not Federer) is the visibility of those dreaded biceps. I would suggest you watch the Federer-Murray SF from this morning and then compare Nadal and Murray physique."

I must admit I find it funny that this is your answer to that paragraph,after everything we have been through in the last few hours!!Im not even going to ask you what your argument was cause I get the feeling you dont even know
I diagree that the only difference are those dreaded biceps,for the fact that I have made a clear plausible case for how I believe Nadal's weight constantly changes.Both our images proves that.I wont disagree that at times he may be no bigger or smaller then Murray,but there are also other times throughout the season when he will definitely be bigger or smaller depending on which way he is cycling.If we go by the notion that both Murray and Nadal are possibly doping then thats a certainty and its unlikely that they will be cycling up or down at exactly the same time
I dont know where you get the impression its all just about the bicep but if thats all you see then that explains a lot

"As I have stated earlier, the bicep size has nothing to with the rest of the musculature. There are many instances of players having their right or left side develop more than the other. You can find many examples over the years. There is also the Credit Suisse 'Match for Africa' promotion where Federer and Nadal are sitting side-by-side. There was a comment about that bicep. I would recommend watching the same video (not an image) and we can discuss further.

Absolutely,Federer is one of them,his right side is more developed and toned but not significantly bigger then his left arm but thats obviously due to his single handed back hand and as i said earlier your body is moulded by the type of exercise you do.It actually isnt much different in many sports that requires you to use your arms,if youre right handed your right arm is usually stronger or more developed then your left.Even in weight lifting one arm is slightly stronger and more "usable" then another.However the bicep has just as much to do an athletes musculature as any other muscle when doing a sport which involves a lot of running.When you run you work your whole body from top to bottom,you burn fat from top to bottom,when/if you start catabolising due to cardio your shoulders,biceps,triceps,pectoral,lats and abdominal muscles, are all effected,in essence you "strip" your torso,if no excercise is being done to maintaing a particular muscle tone all those msucles will be effected,ie. you cannot lose weight on just your arms,or just your chest,or just your butt or just your stomach,obviously certain areas will for whatever reason result in more weight loss then other parts depending on where more weight can be lost but the point is your whole torso is effected simultaneously
Bicep size and bicep catabolism will therefor be completely dependent on how the rest of your muscle tone responds to cardio or weight training because the ratio will be in proportion to your torso
I get the essence of your comments but what youre actually saying doesnt hold up,a tennis players arm muscles are usually more developed then any other part of their body however bicep size isnt irrelevant in a manner which should easily be dismissed,it will always be in proportion and consistent with how the exercise youre doing develops it,i.e swinging a racket wont just develop any size bicep,nor will doing bicep curls with a 5 kg weight develop a bicep thats consistent with using 50kgs.Size is relevant to the application but doesnt automatically = developed or lack there of
So for someone to have larger then usual biceps thats not in proportion to the muscle tone on the torso or consistent with the type exercise is not normal,and definitely not natural
If biceps size has nothing to do with musculature and Nadals biceps are normal for a tennis player why arent more players developing such arms?

""The events in question occurred before the World Anti-Doping Agency was founded in 1999 and during the formative years of anti-doping in tennis, when the program was managed by individual governing bodies," the ITF said."

Precisely the reason why I dont trust governing bodies in organisations where large amounts of money is invovled.But thansk for the info,I didnt knwo that

Of course anyone can write a book,even people who had a certain amount of power and were in a position to know "all the secrets" Nothing is stoping anyone,the books success will be down to how much publicity it will receive and how/if the media generates interest
If the book isn't marketed properly,no one will even know it exists,if the media dont give it much attention,neither will anyone else,if the book receives a damaging review,it wont do well.Point is theres a lot more that goes into making headlines then just writing a book and "naming names".Youre probably far more guaranteed getting your message across on a youtube video then writing a book these days,youll reach far more people and the internet isnt scensored.I bet several people have already considered making money out of a "tell all" book,but seeing that I havent heard or seen anything suggests something to me
Lets say someone from WADA writes a book,what and who will they write about,who will agree to publish it? As I pointed about before,if they dont have failed drugs tests in their possession,they have nothing,how do you prove a failed drugs test in a book? A photo copy of a piece of paper that looks like anyone could have forged?
Then there will be the question marks about your credibility. i.e why should we trust you but not WADA or the ITF or the infamous,"why hasnt Federer exposed it" etc
No amount of books about what you saw will ever result in anything other then a very public smearing campaign by the mainstream media to shoot your credibility.This is how all whistle blowers are treated,like in the movie The Insider where the guy was up against the tobacco companies, if you ( anyone) wants to go up against IMG with a book? LOL good luck!!....just dont be surprised if all it results in is destroying you rather then those you accuse


Someone defended Johnson?
lol Im taking its about those claims he was set up,he is lucky he wasnt fed those Contador steaks

"Doping doctors are employed to keep athletes ahead of the game, by the players not by governing bodies."
Absolutely,when have I ever said anything to the contrary
I dont believe THASP spins anything,for the most part they document all the information and people on that blog form their own opinions.No opinions on there are trumpeted as 100% fact,only plausible explanations
I believe that if you are open to suspicion then you should be open to any conspiracy theory,what I mean by this is tht you cant give one theory some substance and totally shut another down,anything is possible so I remain open to the possibility even though I dont believe its plausible

".. then imagine WADA's job."

Theres room for improvement,but even if testing improved it wont stop a doper from doping.Where there is a will there is a way


"An athlete who drops from a 12K or 5K diet to at 3K diet, with a very high metabolic rate, will catabolise muscles much faster, because they are the easiest and most proximal source of energy. If an injured player stays with such a high K diet, adipose accumulation is very likely. Marathon runners needs very little muscle, they need lighter bodies to run at a steady pace. A Tennis player needs a balanced body, between a sprinter and body builder, for strength and endurance both."

Anyone with a fast metabolism's muscles will catabolise at a faster rate then someone with a slower metabolism,when talking about non pro athletes diet plays a big role,however that can be altered by using supplements which speed your metabolism up,green tea leaf is a good example.I once used hydroxicut,in combination with running a mile a day and core stability pilates I dropped over a stone in under 4 weeks- no diet,thats just a mile- 10 minutes
There is a big difference though,most pro athletes have been training since a young age so their bodies have become accustomed to the exercise,they never really catabolise their muscles from lets say a muscular physique to what it is today,their bodies have just developed and moulded into the way it through exercise going through puberty growing into an adult.
Weight training can also speed up your metabolism and some people claim its the best way to burn fat.Personally I disagree there are better ways
Of course its easy for anyone to put weight on when they stop exercising,just ask retired ballet dancers,a lot of them just blow up because their body has gotten used to burning off calories from the cardio involved in doing movement and jumping since they were 10 or 11.The same principle applies to anyone doing something physical from a young age,your body quickly becomes accustomed to strenuous exercise to maintain a certain level of fitness,stoping or getting injured can quickly result in getting fat and losing muscle tone/ getting out ofshape
But this was never the argument,my point has alwasy been that such a muscular physique isnt consistent or natural for someone who has a lot of running,when a lot of running take place such a muscular physique will be stripped of its muscle tone and the muscles will catabolise,but the complete opposite is what happens with Nadal

Lets also be a little analytical here,if you claim his physique is a lot closer to the image you posted rather then the one I used (which you claim is photoshopped),then what did Nadal lose if his weight was always the same as in the picture you posted? It couldnt have been weight or muscle tone cause if we go my your image there was virtually none left to lose

For the hot topic about his extreme weight loss in 09 to hold any substance,he would have had to be a lot muscular first to lose weight and for the difference to be significant enough to make a huge visible difference

Marathon runners require muscle tone,the fact that they look like they hardly have any is down to the cardio and catabolism.A small frame isnt essential as those African runners from Kenya and Ethiopia are fairly tallish,but I'd think Paula Radcliff is whats considered the ideal marathon physique.See how she even has no boobs. just mosquito bites!!
"A balanced body between a sprinter and body builder"
Not sure I can agree with that,definitely not a body builder,are you just saying that to include Nadal? He isn't even close to the size of a body builder,even at his biggest.Id say looking at the talent in the draw a specific type of body is more a by product of hard work then "being born with the perfect physique for tennis"
I dont think the perfect physique exists for tennis when looking at Federer,then Gasquest,Nalbandien,Murray,Tsonga,Del Potro,Safin or Djokovic

I know many 5+ hour matches were played in tennis before Nadal,I also know many players before him have been quite athletic too.I would assume ( and Im only assuming because some of it was before my time) that none of their athleticism could be a direct result of steroids,I would assume many of them were purely natural athletes,I base this assumption on the type of drugs that would have been on the market during that years
I dont believe Nadal is a natural athlete in spite of what many say
I cant remember a season when he has played from start to finish,there has always been a time when he has been off tour for at least a month or two
Some may say it has to do with his style of play,I reckon its because he simply isn't fit enough,he burns out really quickly.I say this because when I believe he cycles down what his natural athletic ability seems to be isnt even remotely close to half of what it is when he is at his peak.
If he truly had an athletic muscular build naturally,his mucles wouldnt atrophy to such a degree that theres virtually no definition left,especially if he was using steroids ,which suggests that he was never muscular to begin with,his muscular physique is purely down to drugs.You even posted a picture,the combination of cardio and catabolising a naturally muscular physique would result in an incredibly well defined,incredibly lean compact ripped physique with an 8 pack that can cut diamonds yet he looks like any average person off the street in the picture you posted,certainly not tennis' greatest athlete

There are even claims that as a teenager there was little to no evidence of his body naturally developing into the hunky muscle boy he has become
His injuries if true in my opinion would be a direct result of bad technique and forcing something that doesnt come naturally,cause if sport came naturally to him his body wouldnt struggle to keep up with the demands of being a pro athlete so much
A natural pure athlete doesnt have to write cheques his body wont cash in a few years times,it shouldnt have to come as such a high price,that should apply to the complete opposite not someone who is naturally gifted
I know youll slam me for this I know I dont share this opinion alone

laverfan wrote:

Veejay wrote:
I asked Laverfan to prove that the newspaper had no evidence,I dont have anything to support that,so I merely asked the question why a professional newspaper would be so cavalier with such a high profile athletes name
Its quite a serious accusation,the worst thing a pro athlete can be accused of is cheating so I dont understand why they would do such a thing if they didnt have any proof.I'm merely asking a question cause it makes no logical sense to me,Im not implying that they did have proof by asking why they'd do would do something like that,thats why I am asking you to confirm to me via a credible link that they in fact had no proof whatsoever
Youre right newspapers make incorrect accusations all the time,but thats mostly tabloids.How can a credible professional newspaper run a story with such damaging information and not even stop to think of the implications-how unprofessional is that?Even I know that before I could ever write an article claiming that Nadal was a client of Fuentes,I would need something concrete to back it up and Im not even a journalist

Why are tabloids the only source of speculation? Dimanche has never provided public proof of their accusations and has always hidden behind source confidentiality. If they provided such proof to authorised organisations, which were then not made public, could be cause enough for a scandal to ensue.

Why is Dimanche considered more credible than the official denial from the Spanish government when ITF asked them specifically about details. Yet Spanish authorities were willing to provide details for cyclists only, but categorically denied other sports' involvement.

I never said tabloids are the only source of speculation,I said "but thats mostly tabloids" never used the words "only"
I would much rather trust the information that released from lets say even left wing liberal associated news then believe a word thats reported in the star or sun,thats bound to be nothing but sensationalism

Well you never mentioned hiding behind source confidentially before,could be their bluff but it does open the possibility that they actually have proof which is something I tried to imply through my comments all along.I never understood how they would make such damaging allegations if they didnt have something or someone to back it
I never said Dimanche is more credible then the Spanish I merely stated that they are a professional newspaper,that in itself gives them a certain amount of credibility.By publishing an article that was nothing more then a pack of lies or "loosely" links a very high profile athlete seriously risks ruining whatever credibility they have
We arent talking about a Hollywood couple who is annoyed cause their picture was published while they were pigging out on a piece of cake,we are talking about accusing an athlete of the biggest crime they could commit
What kind of journalism is that if they have nothing to base it on?
I did ask you in the other comment which you have yet to read and respond to if its not correct that through operation Galgo it came to light that Spanish officials had lied when they claimed no non cyclists were involved

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Veejay, You are wasting time with LF. You already know what's her intent in any argument or discussion. I'm feeling bad for you since you have to keep typing so much and this person just has no intention to understanding it or replying you directly. Her sole intent is spinning its around changing goal-posts and diverting the whole discussion. Don't you see how irrelevant things she keeps writing? She has no point, she only has a counter point. She has no answers, and to avoid answering, she will post more useless and irrelevant questions.

LF is 'balanced'. You must know it by now.

Thanks ROTLA
I have always respected Laverfan and thought he/she is one of the more knowledgeable and intelligent posters I have come across on the forums so Im still quite surprised and still cant get my head around what Laverfan was even arguing about half the time but as frustrating as its been at times, I cant say I havent enjoyed every minute of the roller-coaster ride
Best part has to be seeing Laverfan run out of questions to ask in response the the question I asked him/her
Probably wouldnt ever admit to it and spin it around by saying I asked him/her not to ( which I actually did ) but as time went by I think it became clear that I am the very last person anyone would ever want to to argue with...
I dont think I even need to prove that I can argue circles around anyone or thing even if the subject is nothing..

Thanks for your concern ROTLA but seriously no need to feel sorry for me whatsoever,Laverfan has finally met his/her match....Ive left quite a bit of bait in my last message so lets see how much more Laverfan can spin things without really saying anything by implying random pointless and irrelevant stuff ...
Thats a challenge Laverfan... but bare in mind Im only warming up here so youve been warned!!. and remember ......even humpty dumpty fell off the wall

P.S Im disappointed to have to agree with everything you said above,you certainly hit the nail on the head there,its certainly not the way I want perceive someone I have great respect for but the opportunity to prove us all wrong is there to grab

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

legendkillar wrote:

His team is now saying the tendon tear was there in additon to the soft tissue syndrome. Impossible

So the fact you have no medical background makes this absolutely certain?

Classic.

Do you have any medical background to question the above statement?

Classic.

Well I am not stating it is impossible medically now am I?

Classic fail from you both

[quote="raiders_of_the_lost_ark"]

legendkillar wrote:

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:An interesting read on existence of silent bans or suspensions.

http://www.tennisnow.com/News/Doping,-Tennis,-Nadal-Connection.aspx

It is very ambiguous in my view. Provisional suspensions are not what I call silent.

Do we hear any news about anyone undergoing provisional suspension? If we don't then its silent.

Ummm not quite. Provisional suspension is not a silent ban now if the player is still playing which he was.

legendkillar wrote:
Look at the Kendrick case. He was banned for a year and it took effect in June 17th and was not released to the public until June 29th. We are talking 12 days. He tested positive on 22nd May and still played up until June 12th. So technically he wasn't banned.

You misread it.

kendrick tested positive on May 22, 2011.
His Provisional suspension started on June 17, 2011. During this period he could have continued to play.
July 29th, 2011 the news about his failed drug test and his 1 year ban was made public.

So from June 17, 2011 - July 29, 2011. So it was 1 month and 12 days. He was under provisional suspension and nothing was made public. If he was missing any tournament, he could easily have declared a fake injury. Had Kendrick won his case, this missing case would have all appeared due to an injury. I have checked ATP's site and he didn't play anything in 2011 during June 17 - July 29. I don't know what reason did he declare for his absence. But moreover who cares about why such a low ranked player is missing a tournament, I don't think many would even take notice of his absence.


Also "ITF documents indicate he volunteered to be placed on a provisional suspension.."

Maybe possible Nadal also volunteered for a provisional suspension. He looked absolutely certain to miss Olympics.

But also indicate there might be a possibility of a player challenging even a provisional suspension

.

Still he wasn't banned from competition from sanctions from the ITF/ATP. What is being widely speculated is that Nadal is serving a silent ban and is banned from competition. None of the players mentioned were banned when they had tested positive. Whether or not the time frame was down to the tests results being contested is speculative, but bear in mind that Gasquet was banned from competing when contesting his ban and test results. Not sure that the ITF/ATP would've allowed such sanctions to other players.

legendkillar wrote:The Korda one holds no substance either as he was still playing beyond Wimbledon when tested positive!

There might be some clauses for it, we don't know everything. Perhaps he challenged his provisional suspension. Perhaps his drug positive test was not very conclusive.


But my point was the existence and possibility of a suspension of an athlete without disclosing the real reason to the public. And its up to the player to give whatever reasons he/she wants to declare for his absence. I already gave an example of an athlete giving injury reason to hide a suspension/ban.

Why is it impossible that Nadal is under such suspension, till his case is reached a conclusion. He too might have volunteered for it just to "cooperate in the whole process". Since he is a very important player and his absence will certainly not go unnoticed, he chooses to hide it under an injury. We have already seen how inconsistent those injury talks are from him and his camp. A really injured player won't have such inconsistencies. And its not the first time for him, even to give him a benefit of doubt. We can't know everything. But I have good reasons to be suspicious.

Again discounting the obvious facts. Seeing the woods for the trees and all. Korda played despite testing positive. Don't think it gets any clearer than that.

Just curious what obvious facts are being discounted Legendkiller?
Not quite sure what youre hinting or implying?

Veejay wrote:Just curious what obvious facts are being discounted Legendkiller?
Not quite sure what youre hinting or implying?

Right so a player who plays despite testing positive for a drug test it is then questioned other factors which are not factual hold weight to how he was able to continue playing when we are talking silent bans?

Interesting.

legendkillar wrote:

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

legendkillar wrote:

His team is now saying the tendon tear was there in additon to the soft tissue syndrome. Impossible

So the fact you have no medical background makes this absolutely certain?

Classic.

Do you have any medical background to question the above statement?

Classic.

Well I am not stating it is impossible medically now am I?

Classic fail from you both

1. How do you state is as a 'fact' that he doesn't have any medical background? Do you know him personally? He might have it.
2. There are lot of things I might know doing my own study, I don't need to have a medical degree to understand it. It may not be my profession, but that doesn't mean my knowledge will necessarily be low.

Classic fail from you.

legendkillar wrote:

Veejay wrote:Just curious what obvious facts are being discounted Legendkiller?
Not quite sure what youre hinting or implying?

Right so a player who plays despite testing positive for a drug test it is then questioned other factors which are not factual hold weight to how he was able to continue playing when we are talking silent bans?

Interesting.

Im not sure what youre saying,I cant figure it out but the silent ban thing is just a plausible theory,
TRuffin has a friend who works for IMG and claimed Nadal failed a drugs test last November and was silently suspended for the month of February
I dont expect anyone to buy this but I trust the source for personal reasons, it does however seem rather pathetic to ban Nadal in February when he was going to take time off tour anyway
Either way the possibility of silent bans apparently do exist,is Nadal serving one now? Who knows,possible that he is but no one can say for sure
I just dont buy the notion that he is injured for the reasons I told you
I remember when that scandal with the Argentines happened,I recall Canas failed a drugs test around IW/Miami and continued to play until Wimbledon while even moving up in the ranking before he was suspended

[quote="legendkillar"]
Ummm not quite. Provisional suspension is not a silent ban now if the player is still playing which he was. [/qoute]

You need to read properly. You have misread it again.

"If a player tests positive for a banned substance (and does not qualify for a Therapeutic Use Exemption), the ITF sends the individual a letter detailing the offense, explaining where and when the sample was collected, and listing the potential consequences. At that time, the player can choose to admit the charge or contest it in front of an independent tribunal (usually chaired by a lawyer and made up of experts in medicine and/or science). If a player is then found to be at fault following tribunal hearings, a suspension would be issued based on the evidence a player provides in his or her defense. It’s also important to note that a player can be barred from play pending a decision by the tribunal. This is known as a provisional suspension.

1. A player can be barred ( or call it banned ) from playing. Kendrick didn't play anything during the period of his provisional suspension. Why you ignore Kendrick's case and keep harping on Kodra's alone?

2. If he can be barred from playing, there might even be possible he could continue to play based on some clauses. I already said.

3. What is a silent ban? If a player is handed a suspension from playing for a certain period and this news is not declared to public. Isn't this is how a player serving his provisional suspension barred from playing? Call is provisional suspension or silent ban, if its not going to be disclosed to public its all the same.

legendkillar wrote: Seeing the woods for the trees and all. Korda played despite testing positive. Don't think it gets any clearer than that.

And does it not get any clearer that kendrick was not playing when he was tested positive? I asked question on Nadal in my reply. Why don't you answer it? I'm seeing woods for trees, fine, lets see what better you are seeing.

I still havent figured out how to quote paragraphs, would really appreciate it if someone told me how!!

Veejay wrote:I still havent figured out how to quote paragraphs, would really appreciate it if someone told me how!!

There is a "Quote" button on the top-right side of every reply. It will open a window with the contents you want to reply to.

If you want to reply to specific line by line, then you'll have to do some copy-paste work on your own.

Try the first one, you'll get how to do the 2nd one on your own.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

Veejay wrote:I still havent figured out how to quote paragraphs, would really appreciate it if someone told me how!!

There is a "Quote" button on the top-right side of every reply. It will open a window with the contents you want to reply to.

If you want to reply to specific line by line, then you'll have to do some copy-paste work on your own.

Try the first one, you'll get how to do the 2nd one on your own.

No I know how to quote that way,I dont know how to quote paragraph by paragraph
Look at my responses to laverfan,would be much easier to answer and read if I didnt have to cut and paste every quote but just quoted

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

legendkillar wrote:

His team is now saying the tendon tear was there in additon to the soft tissue syndrome. Impossible

So the fact you have no medical background makes this absolutely certain?

Classic.

Do you have any medical background to question the above statement?

Classic.

Classic that you're taking my statement out of context.. It's impossible to do the activites Nadal is shown doing with a sof tissue injury to knees and tendon tear.. That's what I was saying clearly.... What qualifies you to dispute that?

Hey Muffin....did you tell everyone youre a juniors Wimbledon champion

For people worrying about doping in tennis, you need not.
Luckily one of the major tennis superstars has started a 'Say NO to doping' initiative in a bid to ensure tennis stays a clean sport:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjjyVzMzES8

Amritia3ee wrote:For people worrying about doping in tennis, you need not.
Luckily one of the major tennis superstars has started a 'Say NO to doping' initiative in a bid to ensure tennis stays a clean sport:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjjyVzMzES8

Talk about throwing the cat among the pigeons...
Do you actually even know what he is saying word for word Ameritia?
If you do I would love for you to tell me

Amritia3ee wrote:For people worrying about doping in tennis, you need not.
Luckily one of the major tennis superstars has started a 'Say NO to doping' initiative in a bid to ensure tennis stays a clean sport:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjjyVzMzES8

Yes. Its just like LA donating thousands of dollars to UCI for buying new testing machines as a support for a clean cycling.

Its just like Bernie Madoff ( Google if you don't know who is he) running numerous charities and donating millions of dollars and raising fund for the needy and poor.

Veejay wrote:Where are these examples Laverfan cause I have yet to see it?

This is about images which can be doctored. I do not trust images which can be modified.

@ROTLA --- here is the equivalent UTube video which is the equivalent of my 'marathon' response. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRHhlWMUeBo&feature=channel&list=UL

Veejay wrote:"A reputed Tennis player, with no prior coaching experience whatsoever, comes back into Tennis, to be tainted with doping? Wonderful. "

Youre using your common sense to back your claims up but that doesnt prove anything Laverfan.Its still no less a conspiracy theory then the theories you attack people on THASP for having.Unless you can prove to a 100% certainty that Lendl will distance himself from Murray if Murray was doping,it remains pure speculation.... Youre the one who brought Murray up and pointed out how big he has gotten over the last few months
What do you attribute him :getting bigger " to? How do you explain it?

My point is this. Lendl asked Murray to get fitter than what he was 12 months ago, which Murray did. It shows in his results. Yet the physique changes in Murray have not triggered what you describe as 100% certainty regarding similar changes in Nadal. Perhaps you are focussed on a specific player.

Veejay wrote:Threatening to sue and suing are 2 different things Laverfan.

Deterrence is better.

@ROTLA - cost-cutting is very good reason to take down articles, while Google has a 100+ year news archive. Perhaps ITF/WADA are also cost cutting and lost Nadal's test results.

Veejay wrote:Why didnt the Nadal camp threaten to sue T.V channel? Those skits were pretty damaging and I believe it left Nadal really upset
I can understand if he doesnt want to be involved in a legal battle that drags on and is played out like a soap opera in the media,but to me making a example of the French skits by suing their asses into the next millennium and clearing my reputation from a smearing campaign would really matter a lot more me if I was him

You are not Nadal. He let RFET deal with the specific issues. Has that skit been aired again?

Veejay wrote:Has the possibility ever occurred to you that Dimanche could have been pressured into changing their story by the power behind the mainstream media and forced to remove that article from existence? ... Maybe the newspaper had no proof like you suggest,but the point Im trying to make is that Nadal is represented by people who could shut Journal du Dimanche down for good and cremate them

Perhaps they can, but they chose not to. A threat was deterrent enough.

Veejay wrote:"On Monday, Nadal said at Wimbledon that he was considering suing a French newspaper which loosely linked him to the Spanish doping probe."

This I find very funny cause youre always the first to dismiss the credibility of any link posted but yet here you are conveniently believing whats written in one article without any of your usual "how do we know this informaiton is credible".stuff I guess its easier for you to believe something as long as it suits your agenda

""We have today been assured in writing by the Spanish Ministry of Education and Science that no tennis players, either Spanish or foreign, are under investigation," ITF president Francesco Ricci Bitti said."

Correct me if Im wrong but hasnt this been proven to be a lie through operation Galgo,I recall the info over on THASP claimed that through operation Galgo Spanish officials were proven to have lied when they said no non cyclist athletes were involved.I tried finding it but too much scroll through.The other thing is that if Nadals name is mentioned on the list thats sealed by a high court Spanish judge then Fuentes' records will prove that no? Cause you cant just go around naming athletes if you cant prove they were clients of yours,if Nadals name isnt listed then that should clear him from this scandal,so in my opinion thats is proof

I agree. I had much rather see the entire Puerto list published, which Samaranch also wants.

Veejay wrote:I know dr Lius Garcia was employed by the academy and I know Sarah Eranni,Marat Safin,Danaria Safina,Igor Andrieev and Maria Kirilinko were at the academy etc...

But it doesnt surprise me that she did cause Garcia apparently told one cyclist that "youre not a professional if you dont take drugs"
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303703004577473003044421504.html

If you go to a medical professional, the treatments are specific to each individual. Woods may have been treated differently than some of the other Galea patients. As a player, you get what you need, without asking details about other players regimens unless they are specifically brought up.

Veejay wrote:Yeah I know Tiger Woods was treated by Tony Galea using PRP technology,and I know that Galea was also caught smuggling HGH,but how does this prove Federer is guilty by association?
The link you provided doesnt in any way claim that Federer was also receiving treatments by Galea,youre merely linking him by the fact that he is linked to Woods.I havent even heard of anyone ever using this to link Roger to PED's
I never linked Ferrer to dr Garcia or anyone else to someone via a 3rd party,I merely pointed out that the link between Garcia and Ferrer helps create reasonable doubt on top of everything else.This linking by association is via a 3rd person like playing broken telephone,whats stoping you from linking anyone to anyone,like for instance me being being linked to you who is linked to someone at Wimbledon who is linked to Ferrer,its too far fetched to link Ferrer to my abuse of PED's

I will use your own words. Suspicion by association, not guilt by association.

Veejay wrote:Nick Harris' commetns about Spain arent unfounded

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/26/doping-spain-ioc-idUSL3E7LQ1IZ20111026

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/simonhart/9731151/New_Spanish_law_on_drugtesting_could_wreck_Madrids_2016_Olympic_prospects/

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-criticises-spain-after-contador-decision

http://seattletimes.com/html/sports/2013053155_apcycdopingspain.html

While I remain open to the possibility that an athlete from any country can be doping,I dont have links like the above for any other country other the Spain
I therefore form the opinion that some countries have a bigger problem with doping then others,it has nothing to do with discrimination but has everything to do with the fact some countries try to tackle the problem more then others.I cannot say I know of any other country where the prime minister has been involved in exonerating a drugs cheat.That to me proves the problem in Spain is way bigger then people want to admit

The solution is to put pressure on Spain to comply with WADA laws or deny participation, as I have suggested.

Veejay wrote:"The only difference between the physiques of Murray and Nadal (not Federer) is the visibility of those dreaded biceps. I would suggest you watch the Federer-Murray SF from this morning and then compare Nadal and Murray physique."

I must admit I find it funny that this is your answer to that paragraph,after everything we have been through in the last few hours!!Im not even going to ask you what your argument was cause I get the feeling you dont even know
... If we go by the notion that both Murray and Nadal are possibly doping then thats a certainty and its unlikely that they will be cycling up or down at exactly the same time I dont know where you get the impression its all just about the bicep but if thats all you see then that explains a lot

The point was the differences in physique due to natural changes and injuries, rather than illegal enhancements. Steroids do not help tennis players, as compared to body builders. EPOs and blood-oxygenation should be the choice. Autologous blood enrichment and similar techniques are favoured, because ABPs cannot detect gradual changes anyway.

Veejay wrote:"As I have stated earlier, the bicep size has nothing to with the rest of the musculature. There are many instances of players having their right or left side develop more than the other. You can find many examples over the years. There is also the Credit Suisse 'Match for Africa' promotion where Federer and Nadal are sitting side-by-side. There was a comment about that bicep. I would recommend watching the same video (not an image) and we can discuss further.

Absolutely,Federer is one of them,his right side is more developed and toned but not significantly bigger then his left arm but thats obviously due to his single handed back hand and as i said earlier your body is moulded by the type of exercise you do.It actually isnt much different in many sports that requires you to use your arms,if youre right handed your right arm is usually stronger or more developed then you left.Even in weight lifting one arm is slightly stronger and more "usable" then another.However the bicep has just as much to do an athletes musculature as any other muscle when doing a sport which involves a lot of running.When you run you work your whole body from top to bottom,you burn fat from top to bottom,when/if you start catabolising due to cardio your shoulders,biceps,triceps,pectoral,lats and abdominal muscles, are all effected,in essence you "strip" your torso,if no excercise is being done to maintaing a particular muscle tone all those msucles will be effected,ie. you cannot lose weight on just your arms,or chest,or butt or stomach,obviously certain areas will for whatever reason result in more weight loss then other parts depending on where more weight can be lost but the point is your whole torso is effected simultaneously
Bicep size and bicep catabolism will therefor be completely dependent on how the rest of your muscle tone responds to cardio or weight training because the ratio will be in proportion to your torso
I get the essence of your comments but what youre actually saying doesnt hold up,a tennis players arm muscles are usually more developed then any other part of their body however bicep size isnt irrelevant in a manner which should easily be dismissed,it will always be in proportion and consistent with how the exercise youre doing develops it,i.e swinging a racket wont just develop any size bicep,nor will doing bicep curls with a 5 kg weight develop a bicep thats consistent with using 50kgs.Size is relevant to the application but doesnt automatically = developed or lack there of
So for someone to have larger then usual biceps thats not in proportion to the muscle tone on the torso or consistent with the type exercise is not normal,definitely not natural
If biceps size has nothing to do with musculature and Nadals biceps are normal for a tennis player why arent more players developing such arms?

Nadal is one of the few players who can inject the highest RPMs (~4800). This is one aspect which requires much more energy and hence is exercised the most. Do you know what muscles play part in such a rotation? In comparison, Federer goes to about 3300 rpms, correct?

Veejay wrote:""The events in question occurred before the World Anti-Doping Agency was founded in 1999 and during the formative years of anti-doping in tennis, when the program was managed by individual governing bodies," the ITF said."

Precisely the reason why I dont trust governing bodies in organisations where large amounts of money is invovled.But thansk for the info,I didnt knwo that

Do you vote?

Veejay wrote:Of course anyone can write a book,... Someone defended Johnson?
lol Im taking its about those claims he was set up,he is lucky he wasnt fed those Contador steaks

Contador and Agassi used the usual I did not know type trick.

Veejay wrote:"Doping doctors are employed to keep athletes ahead of the game, by the players not by governing bodies."
Absolutely,when have I ever said anything to the contrary
I dont believe THASP spins anything,for the most part they document all the information and people on that blog form their own opinions.No opinions on there are trumpeted as 100% fact,only plausible explanations
I believe that if you are open to suspicion then you should be open to any conspiracy theory,what I mean by this is tht you cant give one theory some substance and totally shut another down,anything is possible so I remain open to the possibility even though I dont believe its plausible

The S in THASP, and all the science is fine. The conclusions are questionable. If I were to accept the allegations, a large number of players would be banned for life.

Veejay wrote:".. then imagine WADA's job."

Theres room for improvement,but even if testing improved it wont stop a doper from doping.Where there is a will there is a way

In a previous discussion, I had even suggested that ITF/WADA recruit some well known dopers, perhaps Ben Johnson and the like, to play the role of 'advisors' and employ someone like Fuentes/Moral/Ferrari to help WADA see 'inside' that world. There is a very similar practice in the Internet Security world which is an equivalent.

Veejay wrote:"An athlete who drops from a 12K or 5K diet to at 3K diet, with a very high metabolic rate, will catabolise muscles much faster, because they are the easiest and most proximal source of energy. If an injured player stays with such a high K diet, adipose accumulation is very likely. Marathon runners needs very little muscle, they need lighter bodies to run at a steady pace. A Tennis player needs a balanced body, between a sprinter and body builder, for strength and endurance both."

Anyone with a fast metabolism's muscles will catabolise at a faster rate then someone with a slower metabolism,when talking about non pro athletes diet plays a big role,however that can be altered by using supplements which speed your metabolism up,green tea leaf is a good example.I once used hydroxicut,in combination with running a mile a day and core stability pilates I dropped over a stone in under 4 weeks- no diet,thats just a mile- 10 minutes
There is a big difference though,most pro athletes have been training since a young age so their bodies have become accustomed to the exercise,they never really catabolise their muscles from lets say a muscular physique to what it is today,their bodies have just developed and moulded into the way it through exercise going through puberty growing into an adult.
Weight training can also speed up your metabolism and some people claim its the best way to burn fat.Personally I disagree there are better ways
Of course its easy for anyone to put weight on when they stop exercising,just ask retired ballet dancers,a lot of them just blow up because their body has gotten used to burning off calories from the cardio involved in doing movement and jumping since they were 10 or 11.The same principle applies to anyone doing something physical from a young age,your body quickly becomes accustomed to strenuous exercise to maintain a certain level of fitness,stoping or getting injured can quickly result in getting fat and losing muscle tone/ getting out ofshape
But this was never the argument,my point has alwasy been that such a muscular physique isnt consistent or natural for someone who has a lot of running,when a lot of running take place such a muscular physique will be stripped of its muscle tone and the muscles will catabolise,but the complete opposite is what happens with Nadal
Lets also be a little analytical here,if you claim his physique is a lot closer to the image you posted rather then the one I used (which you claim is photoshopped),then what did Nadal lose if his weight was always the same as in the picture you posted? Couldnt have been weight or muscle tone cause if we go my your image there was virtually none left to lose

For the hot topic about his extreme weight loss in 09 to hold any substance,he would have had to be a lot muscular first to lose weight and for the difference to be significant enough to make a huge visible difference

For someone like Nadal, even a slight change is very noticeable. Djokovic (pre- and post- Dr Igor), Federer (pre- and post-lung infection or mono - take your pick), Murray (pre- and post-Lendl) are prime examples of visible differences.

Veejay wrote:Marathon runners require muscle tone,the fact that they look like they hardly have any is down to the cardio and catabolism.A small frame isnt essential as those African runners from Kenya and Ethiopia are fairly tallish,but I'd think Paula Radcliff is whats considered the ideal marathon physique.See how she even has no boobs. just mosquito bites!!

I object to the Radcliffe comment. Simona Halep, anyone. The point is that individuals have very different musculature and very different bone structure.

Veejay wrote:"A balanced body between a sprinter and body builder"
Not sure I can agree with that,definitely not a body builder,are you just saying that to include Nadal? He isn't even close to the size of a body builder,even at his biggest.Id say looking at the talent in the draw a specific type of body is more a by product of hard work then "being born with the perfect physique for tennis"
I dont think the perfect physique exists for tennis when looking at Federer,then Gasquest,Nalbandien,Murray,Tsonga,Del Potro,Safin or Djokovic

To me Borg and Vilas had the 'perfect' bodies for Tennis, closely followed by Federer, Laver, Nadal. Pancho was the biggest 'non-Tennis' body, Mecir could have been Vilas or Borg in the making.

Veejay wrote:I know many 5+ hour matches were played in tennis before Nadal,I also know many players before him have been quite athletic too.I would assume ( and Im only assuming because some of it was before my time) that none of their athleticism could be a direct result of steroids,I would assume many of them were purely natural athletes,I base this assumption on the type of drugs that would have been on the market during that years
I dont believe Nadal is a natural athlete in spite of what many say
...
If he truly had an athletic muscular build naturally,his mucles wouldnt atrophy to such a degree that theres virtually no definition left,especially if he was using steroids ,which suggests that he was never muscular to begin with,his muscular physique is purely down to drugs.You even posted a picture,the combination of cardio and catabolising a naturally muscular physique would result in an incredibly well defined,incredibly lean compact ripped physique with an 8 pack that can cut diamonds yet he looks like any average person off the street in the picture you posted,certainly not tennis' greatest athlete

Nadal's genetic lineage contradicts the 'Nadal not being a natural athlete' statement. Still imagery is not the best method of looking for muscular definition. I am pretty sure the Armani ads have been air-brushed to remove any resemblance to the real world. Lopez is a prime example of a 'male model' who does nto look like one on the tennis court.

Veejay wrote:There are even claims that as a teenager there was little to no evidence of his body naturally developing into the hunky muscle boy he has become
His injuries if true in my opinion would be a direct result of bad technique and forcing something that doesnt come naturally,cause if sport came naturally to him his body wouldnt struggle to keep up with the demands of being a pro athlete so much
A natural pure athlete doesnt have to write cheques his body wont cash in a few years times,it shouldnt have to come as such a high price,that should apply to the complete opposite not someone who is naturally gifted
I know youll slam me for this I know I dont share this opinion alone

Sampras, Agassi, Lendl have post-Tennis career issues with their bodies. The only natural athletes I know of are the Bushmen of Africa and the Monks of Lhasa. I would consider Paavo Nurmi also a 'natural' athlete.

Veejay wrote:

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

Veejay wrote:I still havent figured out how to quote paragraphs, would really appreciate it if someone told me how!!

There is a "Quote" button on the top-right side of every reply. It will open a window with the contents you want to reply to.

If you want to reply to specific line by line, then you'll have to do some copy-paste work on your own.

Try the first one, you'll get how to do the 2nd one on your own.

No I know how to quote that way,I dont know how to quote paragraph by paragraph
Look at my responses to laverfan,would be much easier to answer and read if I didnt have to cut and paste every quote but just quoted

It dosn't always work caus there is some formating we do not see (not apparent). So you have to highlight all and click on A- (A minus button) which takes away all the formatting.....then quoting follows the logis we are familiar with....I believe.

Veejay wrote:
TRuffin has a friend who works for IMG and claimed Nadal failed a drugs test last November and was silently suspended for the month of February
I dont expect anyone to buy this but I trust the source for personal reasons, it does however seem rather pathetic to ban Nadal in February when he was going to take time off tour anyway
Either way the possibility of silent bans apparently do exist,is Nadal serving one now? Who knows,possible that he is but no one can say for sure
I just dont buy the notion that he is injured for the reasons I told you
I remember when that scandal with the Argentines happened,I recall Canas failed a drugs test around IW/Miami and continued to play until Wimbledon while even moving up in the ranking before he was suspended

Should I trust Luiz-Cotorro and Mikel Sanchez or not? They are RFET doctors and are trusted by multiple Tennis players. They are involved in Nadal's diagnosis. Yet someone keeps bringing up that the news from the Nadal camp is suspect. Why? A personal source is trustworthy, but an official source is suspect. Very subjective.

PS: I would be also curious, if Truffin has an inside source within IMG, what was the discussion within IMG regrading the betting issue?

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Veejay, You are wasting time with LF. You already know what's her intent in any argument or discussion. I'm feeling bad for you since you have to keep typing so much and this person just has no intention to understanding it or replying you directly. Her sole intent is spinning its around changing goal-posts and diverting the whole discussion. Don't you see how irrelevant things she keeps writing? She has no point, she only has a counter point. She has no answers, and to avoid answering, she will post more useless and irrelevant questions.

LF is 'balanced'. You must know it by now.

Spot on ROTLA! I've said it enough and already stopped wasting my time a while back. Plus, I also noticed recently she had shown as a WUM, even an article she wrote was a pure WUM attempt. I'll let you guys guess which one(s)

Another useless piece of irrelevant post from the old lady.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Another useless piece of irrelevant post from the old lady.

Lendl is bankrupt, he has taken up coaching.

I wonder why Annacone or Vajda or Toni coach? Are they bankrupt too?

Their multi-millionaire 'masters' are probably not paying them enough, just minimum daily wages perhaps.

truffin1 wrote:Classic that you're taking my statement out of context.. It's impossible to do the activites Nadal is shown doing with a sof tissue injury to knees and tendon tear.. That's what I was saying clearly.... What qualifies you to dispute that?

You are expecting an academic qualification discussion on an anonymous Internet forum? How can you tell whether I am Wooffie or Rod Laver?

The point is, claims and counter-claims do not help such discussions.

And another useless piece of irrelevant post from the old lady.

Veejay, I am going to write an article including that Nadal 'say no' video which will of course include the translation in English. Stay tuned!

And why is everyone suddenly picking on Laverfan??

I thought that I was the one who was meant to be picked on?

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:And another useless piece of irrelevant post from the old lady.

Did the needle on your gramophone break down? You may want to buy a Shure cartridge next time, it is guaranteed to last a lifetime, and as a trusted and personal source, you should take my advice.

Amritia3ee wrote:And why is everyone suddenly picking on Laverfan??

I thought that I was the one who was meant to be picked on?

Amritia, thanks for your concern.

VeeJay and I are at least pushing this along in a civilised manner, the rest is just pure comedy and mud-slinging, to keep me entertained (and I need a lot of it).