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Any Nadal's game transformation? Toni's another joke.

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Any Nadal's game transformation? Toni's another joke.

Post by paulcz on Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:50 pm

Congrats to Novak for another devastation of Nadal in the final. Nole knows what to play against him, his game quality has absolutely different parameter currently, he has a great confidence when playing him on the court and plays with a great focus against him.

The Toni’s bluff about Nadal’s game transformation is a joke. His game is absolutely based on FH moonballs and one thing is absolutely sure here, he always did and will always rely on playing  high powerful moonballs from that wing, no way to transform it. What he can do it is that he  can blast flatter BH now and then, but here his transformation ends. Some effort for changes on court positioning is   visible especially on his BH, but he is forced to play a lot of slides from that wing, because he is just too late on the ball. It is a just  schizophrenic situation for him and his wise uncle to do any transformation.

 He  is not a player who takes a risk in an even rallye. If there appears a flat blast shot when both players are on his zones, then it is a demonstration of his sheer desperation and  playing drop shots is the same song.

Both Nadals know that their only chance is to focus on the physical side of his game and  stamina  to succeed on clay next season.  

Very curious about Shanghai, now I would like to see another final between Nole and Nadal, just to see their H2H leveled in the final for the Master title. But we can be quite sure that Nadal will not get there, he will avoid that situation with an earlier loss unless he gets a miraculous potion for juicing his power in  hands and legs.

As Nitb said, no game transformation, no supercoach, only doctors can fix him. One thing is positive for Toni, he will  make a record in coaching for sure, i.e.  he will be only coach who stayed with a top player the whole career.

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Re: Any Nadal's game transformation? Toni's another joke.

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:35 pm

I only saw first two games of the first set and then the second set.

It was a stress-free viewing, as Nole was relaxed and confident.
He varied the pace, but the length was perfect  and immaculate.

Nadal looked tortured as he is now in no man's land when it comes to his game: caught between the old moonballing which wasn't bothering Nole even 3 years ago and occasionally hitting flatter, closer from the baseline, when he had enough time, of course.
Understandably, there was a lot of shanking.

While I watched, he was never able to string a fluid point. It must have been really stressful for him to play like that.

Still, some of those shots were good.

I seriously can't imagine him ever fully and comfortably switching to flatter hitting (I am not even getting anywhere near taking the ball early here, btw), still, he may get close enough to enable him some kind of hybrid game that will work on clay against quite a lot of players.
Again, doctors will be the key, as even with this hybrid game, he will still be a percentage asphyxiator of the most shameless kind.

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Re: Any Nadal's game transformation? Toni's another joke.

Post by paulcz on Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:09 pm

noleisthebest wrote:I only saw first two games of the first set and then the second set.

It was a stress-free viewing, as Nole was relaxed and confident.
He varied the pace, but the length was perfect  and immaculate.

Nadal looked tortured as he is now in no man's land when it comes to his game: caught between the old moonballing which wasn't bothering Nole even 3 years ago and occasionally hitting flatter, closer from the baseline, when he had enough time, of course.
Understandably, there was a lot of shanking.

While I watched, he was never able to string a fluid point. It must have been really stressful for him to play like that.

Still, some of those shots were good.
(I am not even getting anywhere near taking the ball early here, btw)
I seriously can't imagine him ever fully and comfortably switching to flatter hitting , still, he may get close enough to enable him some kind of hybrid game that will work on clay against quite a lot of players.
Again, doctors will be the key, as even with this hybrid game, he will still be a percentage asphyxiator of the most shameless kind.
Nitb, I see his chance for a transformation the same.  I dont say it because I am not his fan, but it is just no way that he could  transform his lefty moonballing into early flat hitting his game as he edges thirty next year.  It is the same nonsense as if he should become a net player or started playing by his right hand.

Re his clay game, I even think that a sort of hybrid game will not work for him well. His domain was to asphyxiate his rival and get him off his comfort zone by his higly safe moonballs. When he starts to push himself more to BL, he starts producing UE and it gets him down. It  gets himself out of his standard fighting mood.

As you said absolutely right, his only chance are doctors.

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Re: Any Nadal's game transformation? Toni's another joke.

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:06 pm

From what I saw, Nadal can still bother a lot of players.

He is fast and can retrieve for ever almost. Nole in his peak now still had to be very focused and patient, many balls were coming back from Nadal even in the second set (commentators were saying how the first set was closer despite the score, but I don't know as I only saw the first two games of it).
That's more than enough for quite a few players. We saw how Sock was drained and started to panic.
Nadal is a better and more natural mover than Murray, has better serve than Murray and if he can hit a few more of those super muscled CC or inside out FHs deep into corners like did today a few times, he'll be very similar to Murray, who is a safe number three atm.

Nadal is also a better competitor than Murray so he could worm his way out of many matches next year.

Remember, he made the final this week, and it was not by accident.

He'll work like mad in the off-season and I expect him to be better than he was in Beijing come AO.

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Re: Any Nadal's game transformation? Toni's another joke.

Post by paulcz on Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:39 pm

noleisthebest wrote:From what I saw, Nadal can still bother a lot of players.

He is fast and can retrieve for ever almost. Nole in his peak now still had to be very focused and patient, many balls were coming back from Nadal even in the second set (commentators were saying how the first set was closer despite the score, but I don't know as I only saw the first two games of it).
That's more than enough for quite a few players. We saw how Sock was drained and started to panic.
Nadal is a better and more natural mover than Murray, has better serve than Murray and if he can hit a few more of those super muscled CC or inside out FHs deep into corners like did today a few times, he'll be very similar to Murray, who is a safe number three atm.

Nadal is also a better competitor than Murray so he could worm his way out of many matches next year.

Remember, he made the final this week, and it was not by accident.

He'll work like mad in the off-season and I expect him to be better than he was in Beijing come AO.
I dont really write him off and rather think that he is going up and can get up to 5th place at the ranking. I just commented his transition from the final that is  announced by his coach.

Transition, nontransition, if he starts winning big matches, then it won't be due to his early flat hitting, but due to his ultra powerful lefty moonballing game. But no way he can transfer to an early flat hitter. It is just too late. Look at the final and watch how many BH slices  he played in the final. He was always a step behind on that side and Novak could do whatever he wanted.

His hitting needs more time, he can now and then play a flatter hit, but he does not gain an advantage on the court by that, it is usual no winners or a transition shots to the net. It is like a  shot learnt by his uncle.

His first serve is worse than Murrays, the second serve vice versa. It depends on condition and opponents, whom serve causes more damage, but I see their serve about the same or  rather Murrays first serve can help him more.

He surely will work as mad on what his uncle calls a transformation, but in reality only thing he can improve is his power and stamina. Some players will handle this new transformed version easily.

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Re: Any Nadal's game transformation? Toni's another joke.

Post by Daniel on Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:58 pm

Nadal is, and always has been, a one dimensional player.  The current era of large surface area power racquets, slow conditions, and homogenized surfaces allowed for Nadal to be far more successful than he would otherwise have been.  But in these conditions, Nadal at his best is the best on clay. He is probably the greatest defender the sport has ever seen. 

But, as soon as decline starts to set in, that type of player falls off the radar very quickly. His game relies nearly entirely on speed and stamina and without it those top margins don't get reached. Confidence gets shaken.  Balls no longer paint the baseline.  And so on...

Nadal has never had a B game (reminds of of Hendry in snooker).  He hasn't got the talent to mix it up and start doing what Federer has to squeeze out a few more years.  He's done. Nadal fans can be happy he won so much, because in the 80s he would have won far less.  For years I had to endure the nonsense assertion that Nadal was just as talented as Borg, Federer and Sampras.  Well, no, he isn't - and now we're all seeing why. His one dimensional play is now being exposed.

Expecting Nadal at 29 to bounce back to his best is the stuff of fiction.

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