Re: Roland Garros 2021

by N2D2L Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:54 pm

Tenez wrote:Yep he is a bit knackered. Reminds me the 2015 FO final v Stan.

bogbrush wrote:I’m still not buying it, we’ve seen this before.

by Tenez Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:13 pm

Laverfan..laverfan...rings a bell

by Tenez Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:01 am

Nadal who was in a position to get the GOAT title might end up number 3.

by Daniel2 Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:25 am

I remember it too. But I didn't factor in the weakest 10 years of tennis we've ever seen.

by Daniel2 Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:26 am

I also didn't factor in that they'd slow US Open down or that they'd cater 2 other slams to slow players also.

by Jahu Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:03 am

Tenez wrote:Nadal who was in a position to get the GOAT title might end up number 3.

So Fed wins this W? Whistle

by N2D2L Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:45 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/57461959

"I have put myself in a good position to go for the Golden Slam," said Djokovic, who won his 19th major by beating Stefanos Tsitsipas in Paris.

by Tenez Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:35 pm

Daniel2 wrote:I remember it too. But I didn't factor in the weakest 10 years of tennis we've ever seen.

...and neither did you factor in that players can still play their best past 30! Winking

by Tenez Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:36 pm

Jahu wrote:
Tenez wrote:Nadal who was in a position to get the GOAT title might end up number 3.

So Fed wins this W?

Probably not but Nadal has not surpassed Federer. Federer still holds the best record combination (slams, number 1 weeks, WTFs....)

by Daniel2 Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:34 am

Tenez wrote:
Daniel2 wrote:I remember it too. But I didn't factor in the weakest 10 years of tennis we've ever seen.
...and neither did you factor in that players can still play their best past 30!

No - they can't. Djok and Nadal are not playing like they were 10 years ago. It's just that everyone is else poorer And again the surfaces being slower cater to them.

by summerblues Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:18 am

So maybe NoleIsTheBest after all.

by laverfan Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:39 am

Tenez wrote:Laverfan..laverfan...rings a bell

by laverfan Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:39 am

summerblues wrote:So maybe NoleIsTheBest after all.

Hope you are doing well, SB!

by summerblues Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:24 am

laverfan wrote:
summerblues wrote:So maybe NoleIsTheBest after all.
Hope you are doing well, SB!

Not quite as well as if Nole had lost but I am all right otherwise - thanks for asking. I hope you are also doing well, LF. The other day I had a read through 606v2 as this forum here is dying, but with Federer riding into sunset I am also less inclined to post than before, so I did not post anything. Also, somehow I disengaged from tennis during covid and I did not even see the final on Sunday, even though I was scoreboard watching.

Good to hear from you.

by naxroy Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:56 pm

Congrats to Djokovic for his 19th slam and second RG

Simply amazing

by Jahu Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:58 pm

naxroy wrote:Congrats to Djokovic for his 19th slam and second RG

Simply amazing

There are no Djokovic fans here garros - Roland Garros 2021 - Page 3 2355573927

Call his wife and congratulate her.

by Tenez Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:20 pm

lol...I am no fan but I will still thank him to stop Nadal. I quite enjoy the fact he beats Nadal at Nadal's own lung bursting game.

Very depressing for the youngsters and Djoko and Nadal made the most of this new fitness technology but the youngsters will catch up....its getting closer and closer.

by raiders_of_the_lost_ark Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:07 pm

Tenez wrote:lol...I am no fan but I will still thank him to stop Nadal. I quite enjoy the fact he beats Nadal at Nadal's own lung bursting game.

Very depressing for the youngsters and Djoko and Nadal made the most of this new fitness technology but the youngsters will catch up....its getting closer and closer.

Against the overall field, I think Nadal is more watchable than Djoko.

by raiders_of_the_lost_ark Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:15 pm

Daniel2 wrote:
Tenez wrote:
Daniel2 wrote:I remember it too. But I didn't factor in the weakest 10 years of tennis we've ever seen.
...and neither did you factor in that players can still play their best past 30!

No - they can't. Djok and Nadal are not playing like they were 10 years ago. It's just that everyone is else poorer And again the surfaces being slower cater to them.

I would agree with Daniel2. Nadal and Djo clearly and visibly not playing their best tennis for many years now. But the field they are up against is hopelessly impotent. And so Nadal/Djoko are still relevant slamwise and will be for the next 2 years atlesat.

And Fed, ranked #80 will still be playing by then.

by Tenez Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:59 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Tenez wrote:lol...I am no fan but I will still thank him to stop Nadal. I quite enjoy the fact he beats Nadal at Nadal's own lung bursting game.

Very depressing for the youngsters and Djoko and Nadal made the most of this new fitness technology but the youngsters will catch up....its getting closer and closer.
Against the overall field, I think Nadal is more watchable than Djoko.

Let's put it this way. Nadal has better looking style than Djokovic: FHs smashes slices look smoother and more stylish. But his strategy is too 1D and that what makes him the worse player for me.

Djokovic has probably the worst style of the top 1000. Difficult to find a game with uglier shots but his placement of the ball is quite smarter and gutsy than Nadal.

Don't you agree with this?

by Tenez Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:08 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Daniel2 wrote:
Tenez wrote:
Daniel2 wrote:I remember it too. But I didn't factor in the weakest 10 years of tennis we've ever seen.
...and neither did you factor in that players can still play their best past 30!

No - they can't. Djok and Nadal are not playing like they were 10 years ago. It's just that everyone is else poorer And again the surfaces being slower cater to them.

I would agree with Daniel2. Nadal and Djo clearly and visibly not playing their best tennis for many years now. But the field they are up against is hopelessly impotent. And so Nadal/Djoko are still relevant slamwise and will be for the next 2 years atlesat.

And Fed, ranked #80 will still be playing by then.

I m afraid but you 2 have a very poor sense of observation. To think that Djoko and Nadal were playing better 10 years ago is crazy.

I know that ROTla was also thinking alike when comparing Fed 2006-7 with Fed 2009-15 And then when I outlined the kind of players Fed was playing in 2006-7 with the new players he/you agreed that Fed was cutting through the draw with more ease v tougher players in 2015 than mid 00s.

But overall this is very much a fanship reaction to believe that your fav player can only lose if declined. While the reality is the game keeps evolving.. And quite fast actually cause every player they face turn into. A coaching lesson.

by Tenez Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:12 pm

I could say that Blake and Nalbandian only lost to Nadal when they started to decline as well...
That's the logic you are in.

by Daniel2 Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:16 pm

summerblues wrote:So maybe NoleIsTheBest after all.

If fed 2004-7 was playing, he'd be wiping them out like nothing. Even Nadal on clay would be suffering. People forget how good Fed was.

by N2D2L Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:43 pm

Daniel2 wrote:
summerblues wrote:So maybe NoleIsTheBest after all.

If fed 2004-7 was playing, he'd be wiping them out like nothing. Even Nadal on clay would be suffering. People forget how good Fed was.

Yeah. If not anything you're underselling Federer. Forget his prime 2004-2007; even 2014-2019 Federer would be wiping out the 'next gen'. Maybe not in Masters, but when it comes to Slams this new generation totally bottle it. Fully fit Federer would wreck them.

Also not sure if you've been on twitter or other tennis forums; but Djokovic fans are jubilant. They're ready for Djokovic to win 'Golden Slam' (as Djokovic himself said he was looking to do), and declare him the GOAT.

by N2D2L Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:45 pm

Tenez wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Against the overall field, I think Nadal is more watchable than Djoko.
Let's put it this way. Nadal has better looking style than Djokovic: FHs smashes slices look smoother and more stylish. But his strategy is too 1D and that what makes him the worse player for me.

Djokovic has probably the worst style of the top 1000. Difficult to find a game with uglier shots but his placement of the ball is quite smarter and gutsy than Nadal.

Most Federer fans I know enjoy watching Nadal play, even when watching to support his opponent. Djokovic just puts everyone to sleep.

by Tenez Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:07 pm

I dunno. Both Nadal and Djoko rely too much on fitness for me to enjoy them play. I can think of many other players I would enjoy first.

This is the very problem I have while watching a game with those 2. in best of 3 or in the first 2 sets of a best of 5 the game can get interesting as the youngsters can beat them or stay with them at least, but in slams, winning over 5 sets....that's much harder hence why their dominance is purely physical nothing else.

by N2D2L Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:23 pm

Tenez wrote:I dunno. Both Nadal and Djoko rely too much on fitness for me to enjoy them play. I can think of many other players I would enjoy first.

This is the very problem I have while watching a game with those 2. in best of 3 or in the first 2 sets of a best of 5 the game can get interesting as the youngsters can beat them or stay with them at least, but in slams, winning over 5 sets....that's much harder hence why their dominance is purely physical nothing else.

Nadal has won the most Masters 1000.

He also has a sensational record of winning the first set. Unless you're claiming that players get tired by set number 1?

by raiders_of_the_lost_ark Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:16 pm

Tenez wrote:I m afraid but you 2 have a very poor sense of observation. To think that Djoko and Nadal were playing better 10 years ago is crazy.

I didn't even mention 10 years ago. I only said they are not playing their best tennis but still winning majors.

From what I see, Djoko played his best between 2014-16 with form dipping by end of 2016. After that, he has played good in patches. 2021 Djo should have been slamless, but he has 2/2 because his opponents are too weak.

Nadal played his best between 2008-2010 and 2013-14.

by Tenez Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:17 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Tenez wrote:I m afraid but you 2 have a very poor sense of observation. To think that Djoko and Nadal were playing better 10 years ago is crazy.

I didn't even mention 10 years ago. I only said they are not playing their best tennis but still winning majors.

From what I see, Djoko played his best between 2014-16 with form dipping by end of 2016. After that, he has played good in patches. 2021 Djo should have been slamless, but he has 2/2 because his opponents are too weak.

Nadal played his best between 2008-2010 and 2013-14.

Don;t you think Nadal played well in 2020? The way he dispatched Tsi at the AO or Djoko is FO was as good as his best? Franckly!!!!!Nadal had a bad patch after 2014 cause he knew he had to change his game. As Tony said, he was not going to be able to win matches by running like in the past simply because players were hitting harder and harder. Nadal had no choice but to be more aggressive. his 2008-11 period would lead him nowhere today. Djoko and Murray had found the key already.

While Federer clearly played better v Nadal post 2014! This is just obvious!

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