Other ATP tournaments 2021

Tsitsipas lost, Rublev lost to sonego..

Same old Djoko-Nadal final lining up.

Tenez wrote:

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Nadal has beaten that someone last RG finals to claim his 20th. How many years will it take that someone to match Nadal physically at RG?

??

As soon as Fed got bigger frame? So now its about the frame and not the physicality?hmm

Again strange comment from a developer....I thought you were meant to have a logical mind?!

Yes, the bigger frame has given the chance for Federer to be more agressive and not to have to be dictated by Nadal as much as he had to with 90inch slice BH. Is that difficult to understand? Will you at least admit you were wrong about Nadal's superior mental strength v Federer now? I doubt it.

Either you have some ultra-deep profound knowledge about mental strengths in tennis which none, including former players, tennis pundits have. Or you are completely off reality, alone in your views.

Because I have never seen/heard anyone with the opinion like Nadal's success in 2005 clay season against well-established clay courters and top-ranked opponents is due to his strong mental strength which came from having bigger muscles.

It's just bizarre. I don't know how can Nadal be so confident about his muscles taking him home when playing Coria and Gaudio, Federer and all of them when he hadn't won anything substantial before the clay season of 2005. He recently suffered a crushing loss in a 5 setter against Federer after leading 2-0 sets at Miami finals. But somehow it does not affect him mentally and those bigger arm muscles make up for this. 

I saw this BBC documentary on Wimbledon 2008. Fed being 0-2 sets down and rain break, he said he didn't go into the match believing could win, coz just a month ago Nadal absolutely crushed him at RG finals. So Fed being 5-time defending champion at W, #1, 6-7 slams, numerous TMS in the bag, can also suffer a mental decline from a recent loss, but Nadal who has never won anything big, somehow has no such issues only coz he has bigger muscles and he knows it? Doesn't this explanation sound strange to you?

Nadal was a real special young player. Absolutely fearless no matter whom he faced, and what situation. And it doesn't come from having muscles, tennis is not an arm wrestling game. He could win multiple nerve-wracking TBs against anyone. 

Muscles making up for experience in young tennis players is absolutely bizarre explanation. So Sinner has the game, but mental strength when facing top guys will come from experience as it does for all players. Not by having muscles.   

You don't like Nadal. I'm no big fan either. But that doesn't mean I can't see what he was. A real super teen. That's why we haven't seen anyone repeat that 2005 like performance even after 16 years. After even after 16 years, he is still the toughest opponent to beat at RG.

All the huffing and puffing, and look who is in the final. 

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:...Because I have never seen/heard anyone with the opinion like Nadal's success in 2005 clay season against well-established clay courters and top-ranked opponents is due to his strong mental strength which came from having bigger muscles.

Really? All pundits, all pro tennis players and everybody else were saying back then that Nadal was a physical phenomenon. Did you miss that? Now looks like you are also saying that mental strength and physical advantage are completely disconnected. And that is also where you are very wrong. All players who could run for ever are recognised to be strong mentally Borg, Wilander, Chang, Hewitt, etc... essentially because they are fighting....which for them means running. This is where I disagree. Look at Wilander winning his first FO 1982 or Chang 1989. Both were the youngest players ever to win a slam...and Chang still is by the way. And I would invite you to watch those 2 players back then especially, Wilander in Final. Just pushing the ball but running after every one. with rallies of 3mn!!!! It is exactly like Nadal 2005.

And it is no coincidence that those youngest players who could run for ever won so young at the FO their first slam cause it was clay and clay emphasise the physical side.

The above are facts!...not off reality.

It's just bizarre. I don't know how can Nadal be so confident about his muscles taking him home when playing Coria and Gaudio, Federer and all of them when he hadn't won anything substantial before the clay season of 2005. He recently suffered a crushing loss in a 5 setter against Federer after leading 2-0 sets at Miami finals. But somehow it does not affect him mentally and those bigger arm muscles make up for this.

 You are answering your own questions! versus Coria he lost the mental fight in that 5 setter in Monaco...as Coria was a break up in that 5th...but again, listen to Coria interview after the match. "Nadal is a beast, a physical phenomenon". And at Miami v Federer, once he lost that energy and physical advantage....he actually lost 60 in that last set. Where is the mental fight there????? Where are those mental fights when in 2011 Djokovic could run with Nadal and they were having endless rallies?

It is a huge mistake to dissociate stamina and muscles from what appears mental strength.

I thought after all our discussions it would have been clear...but what is clear is that like most fans you want to see what you want to see.

Muscles making up for experience in young tennis players is absolutely bizarre explanation. So Sinner has the game, but mental strength when facing top guys will come from experience as it does for all players. Not by having muscles.   

Sinner, Federer, Shapo, Stan...very different. They are taking the risk....not like Nadal or WIlander playing with margins. That is where we differ mostly. For me fighting is not the noble mental side in tennis cause it is directly linked to your fitness. Whereas taking the risk decide the outcome of a rallies by pulling winners and being gutsy. Nadal's points, especially in his early years, came mostly from UEs.

You don't like Nadal.

And why do you think I don't like him? I don;t know him more than Federer. All my judgement is based on the game they play.

I'm no big fan either. But that doesn't mean I can't see what he was. A real super teen. That's why we haven't seen anyone repeat that 2005 like performance even after 16 years. After even after 16 years, he is still the toughest opponent to beat at RG.

Yep...If he had won 13 fast Wimbledons and be the toughest to beat there there, I'd be his biggest fan. It is no coincidence he has won 13 FO! and only 1 AO..the year it was pretty slow actually.  

His record says it all. Mental strengh should allow you to win egal everywhere. Look at Fderer, 5 slams or more in all slams that are not as much about fitness. Think!

Good win for Rafa

10 Roma Masters

Sinner in 3rd round would be huge at RG for any of the top 4

this year could have a different winner if Nadal gets placed in Nole´s half (not saying it would be a win for Nole)as it would leave the other half quite open

Djokovic has not won anything on clay this year..and I don't think his form was any good. Very patchy.

Fed goes home!!

Lost 4:6 6:3, 6:2 to Felix ffs.

It’s looking bleak, disappointing after a decent FO showing.

Yes did not have much hope though.

I would not mind as much had he converted one of those 2 Championship points he had 2 years ago.

Saw the resume and clearly Fed can't move.

Djokovic out...that's one he will never have!

Zverev well deserved Gold, beat that fake Monaco-Serbian-Idiot, toyed with Kacha today, well done.

Another proof that post 30s get a stamina edge.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/58132919

But of course rotla and Daniel will tell you that there is also a weak era amongst Marathon athletes.

yes, how stupid of us - and Federer looks in great form along with so many post 30s in the top 100.

Federer is now closer to his 50s than 30.

Nice spin.

Anyone remembers Clerc, Vilas, Solomon? Well they are back!

1970/80 clay tennis played on HC! Thanks Djoko and Medv!

And pobably due to the slowest court I have ever seen! Absurd!



Well done Tommy Haas!!!

At this rate tennis will completely die off.

Indian Wells surface is built for Nadal, for sure. 

Owner is Larry Ellison who is a big Rafa fan.

Lots of players are complaining about the pace.


Yeah. Nadal would have loved it....but nowadays, Nadal;s game has been completely found out.

Tenez wrote:Lots of players are complaining about the pace.


Yeah. Nadal would have loved it....but nowadays, Nadal;s game has been completely found out.

People have found out that he's 35, very slow, and also suffering an exacerbation of Mueller-Weiss syndrome.

Anyway, as you mentioned, Djokovic found him out in 2011. Since then then it's been a long decline of tennis quality. .

I am a fan of the ATP Tour

We may have to endure a super Nadal...in Alcaraz!

Another rabbit charged with mega batteries...running everywhere to retrieve everything.

Why Is Barty not in the wta ranking system anymore? Thats very weird.

Museti has a beautiful style. I hope he can physically stand today's level or he will finish as a great doubles player ...sadly.

Djokovic giving a all he had in that 2nd set.

Not able to sustain the intensity of 3 sets, loses 6/0 in the 3rd.

How lucky was he to have to face Federer mostly in finals when Federer was past 35!

Tenez wrote:Why Is Barty not in the wta ranking system anymore? Thats very weird.

She has announced retirement.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-60857013

Tenez wrote:We may have to endure a super Nadal...in Alcaraz!

Another rabbit charged with mega batteries...running everywhere to retrieve everything.

 What is it in Alcaraz that u don't like. He plays good all court game, great touch too.

Food for thoughts for some of you....

https://www.bbc.com/sport/snooker/61222091

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

Tenez wrote:We may have to endure a super Nadal...in Alcaraz!

Another rabbit charged with mega batteries...running everywhere to retrieve everything.

 What is it in Alcaraz that u don't like. He plays good all court game, great touch too.

Steroids. So obvious!

Tenez wrote:

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

Tenez wrote:We may have to endure a super Nadal...in Alcaraz!

Another rabbit charged with mega batteries...running everywhere to retrieve everything.

 What is it in Alcaraz that u don't like. He plays good all court game, great touch too.

Steroids. So obvious!

I don't know what are you hoping for when u look at an upcoming young player. You want Nadal/Djokovic to win 30+ slams coz they will if young players play like a 19 year old Fed was. 

Tennis is not just a sport of athleticism. If steroid use was alone doing it, there would have been many Nadals/ Djokovics.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

Tenez wrote:

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

Tenez wrote:We may have to endure a super Nadal...in Alcaraz!

Another rabbit charged with mega batteries...running everywhere to retrieve everything.

 What is it in Alcaraz that u don't like. He plays good all court game, great touch too.

Steroids. So obvious!

I don't know what are you hoping for when u look at an upcoming young player. You want Nadal/Djokovic to win 30+ slams coz they will if young players play like a 19 year old Fed was. 

Tennis is not just a sport of athleticism. If steroid use was alone doing it, there would have been many Nadals/ Djokovics.

I don;t want another NAdal or Djoko as a matter of fact and Alcaraz is exactly that. Another moonballer with legs Nadal would not have hoped for at 18!

Alcaraz may be a Nadal or Djokovic lookalike in your view, but he mauled Zverev pretty handily today using a game plan and shots that left Zverev looking completely inadequate.  Sascha wasn't astounding in the 1st set but was completely woeful in the 2nd when he appeared to lose his head and his serve.

Tenez wrote:

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

Tenez wrote:

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

Tenez wrote:We may have to endure a super Nadal...in Alcaraz!

Another rabbit charged with mega batteries...running everywhere to retrieve everything.

 What is it in Alcaraz that u don't like. He plays good all court game, great touch too.

Steroids. So obvious!

I don't know what are you hoping for when u look at an upcoming young player. You want Nadal/Djokovic to win 30+ slams coz they will if young players play like a 19 year old Fed was. 

Tennis is not just a sport of athleticism. If steroid use was alone doing it, there would have been many Nadals/ Djokovics.

I don;t want another NAdal or Djoko as a matter of fact and Alcaraz is exactly that. Another moonballer with legs Nadal would not have hoped for at 18!

A. Nadal and Djokovic win 30+ slams and make Fed's 20 look punnie little.
B. A young player comes and restricts Nadal and Djokovic to 20-21 slams.

I'm going with option B.

I don t really care about Slam 20 21 or 22...I only enjoyed 21 of them while the other 43 were simply a robbery in my eyes with steroids and egg chambers being the norm.

I just want more talented players to win and none of those doped ones.


Have you noticed Alcaraz body at Madrid 21 v Madrid 22 in both cases v Nadal?

Tenez wrote:I don t really care about Slam 20 21 or 22...I only enjoyed 21 of them while the other 43 were simply a robbery in my eyes with steroids and egg chambers being the norm.

I just want more talented players to win and none of those doped ones.


Have you noticed Alcaraz body at Madrid 21 v Madrid 22 in both cases v Nadal?

The cleanest and purest players are club players, not pros. In pro sports everyone tries to stretch the limits, take anything that is not been banned as yet, or does whatever possible to hide it. This includes everyone including Federer.

So with that in mind, even Fed's 21 doesn't count for the 'purist'. 

And talent. It has no universal definition.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

Tenez wrote:I don t really care about Slam 20 21 or 22...I only enjoyed 21 of them while the other 43 were simply a robbery in my eyes with steroids and egg chambers being the norm.

I just want more talented players to win and none of those doped ones.


Have you noticed Alcaraz body at Madrid 21 v Madrid 22 in both cases v Nadal?

The cleanest and purest players are club players, not pros. In pro sports everyone tries to stretch the limits, take anything that is not been banned as yet, or does whatever possible to hide it. This includes everyone including Federer.

Too simplistic view and why people are quitting tennis and tennis forums.

And talent. It has no universal definition.

It doesn't mean it does not exist. Most of us here and in other forums joined because we could recognise the extraordinary talent of Federer. Like millions are queuing every year to watch Picasso, Vinci and Goya...no-one is queuing to watch your or my drawings...so talent exists and it is not because it is not tangible or quantifiable that is doesn't exist.

Tenez wrote:

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

Tenez wrote:I don t really care about Slam 20 21 or 22...I only enjoyed 21 of them while the other 43 were simply a robbery in my eyes with steroids and egg chambers being the norm.

I just want more talented players to win and none of those doped ones.


Have you noticed Alcaraz body at Madrid 21 v Madrid 22 in both cases v Nadal?

The cleanest and purest players are club players, not pros. In pro sports everyone tries to stretch the limits, take anything that is not been banned as yet, or does whatever possible to hide it. This includes everyone including Federer.

Too simplistic view and why people are quitting tennis and tennis forums.

And talent. It has no universal definition.

It doesn't mean it does not exist. Most of us here and in other forums joined because we could recognise the extraordinary talent of Federer. Like millions are queuing every year to watch Picasso, Vinci and Goya...no-one is queuing to watch your or my drawings...so talent exists and it is not because it is not tangible or quantifiable that is doesn't exist.

Can you say for certain that Fed is and has always been as clean as you, me and other local players? Pro circuit is totally different.


Fed is greatest in one definition of talent. Nadal is in another. And so is Djokovic. Murray had to work harder than the other 3 but still, he worked out his success plan.

So is Alcaraz.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

Tenez wrote:

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

Tenez wrote:I don t really care about Slam 20 21 or 22...I only enjoyed 21 of them while the other 43 were simply a robbery in my eyes with steroids and egg chambers being the norm.

I just want more talented players to win and none of those doped ones.


Have you noticed Alcaraz body at Madrid 21 v Madrid 22 in both cases v Nadal?

The cleanest and purest players are club players, not pros. In pro sports everyone tries to stretch the limits, take anything that is not been banned as yet, or does whatever possible to hide it. This includes everyone including Federer.

Too simplistic view and why people are quitting tennis and tennis forums.

And talent. It has no universal definition.

It doesn't mean it does not exist. Most of us here and in other forums joined because we could recognise the extraordinary talent of Federer. Like millions are queuing every year to watch Picasso, Vinci and Goya...no-one is queuing to watch your or my drawings...so talent exists and it is not because it is not tangible or quantifiable that is doesn't exist.

Can you say for certain that Fed is and has always been as clean as you, me and other local players? Pro circuit is totally different.

I am surprised by your comments. Looks like you have not been reading or learning (if I may) from the last 10 years of posting. To answer your question, i am not sure as his game is not based on superior physical aptitude like Nadal and Djokovic and many others on the tour. It is based on exploiting his natural abilities in seeing the ball earlier, timing it better than anyone else and lots of hard work showing not only skills but mastering of a technique which at the end make his game look easy and effortless (a probably universal definition of talent).
And this is why we are likely to see many Nadal now like Coric, Alcaraz, or Djokos like Medsvedev, Zverev, but so far unlikely to see another Federer before a while.

Fed is greatest in one definition of talent. Nadal is in another. And so is Djokovic. Murray had to work harder than the other 3 but still, he worked out his success plan.

That's because you don't see or know what is talent. You eyes are not sharp enough I am afraid as you do not see what is behind Nadal and Djokovic's success. They simply would be uncapable of getting games off Federer without their magic potion. Thye chose the physical route and help of science to overtake Federer, like a plane flies faster and longer than a bird....with petrol!

So is Alcaraz.

At the end of the day, I feel sorry for people who cannot distinguish talent (and effectiveness at a least cost) over the rest.

Tenez wrote:

Too simplistic view and why people are quitting tennis and tennis forums.

People are not quitting tennis
And tennis forums cant stand a chance against social networks, specially if the forum loses all credibility, like this one

a forum can be a great platform for more in depth debate, but this forum in particular is really far from offering that

tha main problem of this forum it was never about tennis enjoyment, but about hatred towards a few players.

Hate just sells in the short term

Of course I differ. This forum was actually a gathering of pretty good tennis experts. And one who doesn't simply praise winners but praised an exceptional player and analysed why tennis has lost a lot of appeal since. It's also a forum which could openly discuss what we cannot talk about in mainstream media. Tennis is plagues by money like any other sport with rampant doping and now politics forbidding athletes to be part of events cause they were born in the wrong side of the planet.

I let you enjoy Nadal v Djoko or Nadal v Alcaraz...but real tennis fans know tennis is dead now.

Snooker provided me with more fun recently cause doping has not played a huge role..yet.

What's more common than the sunrise?


Answer:  Nadal talking about injuries after he's just lost.  The guy is a clown.

“The moment will come when my mind will tell me ‘stop’ because pain prevents me from being happy,” the 35-year-old confessed. “Not only for tennis, but for my everyday life.”

The bleak admission came as Nadal described himself not as someone who was “not injured”, but “a player living with an injury”. He added: “It's nothing new. It's something that is there, and unfortunately, my day by day is difficult, honestly."