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ATP 250/500 Tournaments 2018 Thread: Rio, Marseille, Delray

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Re: ATP 250/500 Tournaments 2018 Thread: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by bogbrush on Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:26 am

I think the current h2h at 15-23 has crept over into the curiosity category, especially with the clay domination (which can't be ignored as it corresponds precisely to the narrative of the era that Nadal was the clay GOAT). 10-23 was uncomfortable. 

It'll be interesting if Federer can maintain a positive h2h from here on because something like 19-24 or better will render it neither here or there and there'd be the fascinating late-career lop-sided h2h the other way that would feed into Tenez's racquet argument. I'm 99% sure there'll be no more clay meetings.

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Re: ATP 250/500 Tournaments 2018 Thread: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by barrystar on Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:41 am

bogbrush wrote:I think the current h2h at 15-23 has crept over into the curiosity category, especially with the clay domination (which can't be ignored as it corresponds precisely to the narrative of the era that Nadal was the clay GOAT). 10-23 was uncomfortable. 

It'll be interesting if Federer can maintain a positive h2h from here on because something like 19-24 or better will render it neither here or there and there'd be the fascinating late-career lop-sided h2h the other way that would feed into Tenez's racquet argument. I'm 99% sure there'll be no more clay meetings.

Fed needs to get out of the 30's in terms of % win rate - at the moment it's 39% and I agree that something in the mid 40's such as you suggest would render it rather different.  

Most long H2H's of top players with an age difference are lop-sided at either end by reference to the age advantage with a cross-over point in the middle.  Of Fed's H2H's vs. his big rivals Fed-Djoko is the closest to that pattern, but not entirely.

I think we both agree that Fed's last hurrah will be crucial to how he is viewed by posterity - since January 2017 he has posted the sort of numbers that are better than the vast majority of most players' overall title-winning records, at least in terms of depth of quality if not overall numbers: 3 slams, 3 Masters, 3 500's.  Stan's overall title record by comparison is 3 slams, 1 Masters, 3 500's, and 9 250's.

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Re: ATP 250/500 Tournaments 2018 Thread: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by summerblues on Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:31 am

I never cared about H2H very much.  My view is that H2H was always skewed rather obviously because Rafa was (and indeed is) a bad match-up for Fed.  I mentioned it before, but to me the lopsided H2H was actually strengthening Fed's claim to GOAT-hood rather than weakening it (though I realize not many will see it that way smiley).

One way or another, I think H2H is one of those things that make for good story right now, but will get forgotten in future.

That said, I was very glad to see Fed finally finding a way to overcome Rafa.  But for me it was more of emotional importance, similar to being the oldest #1 ever, rather than being critical to Fed's legacy.

The total number of slam titles, on the other hand...   ...yes, that matters a lot.

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Re: ATP 250/500 Tournaments 2018 Thread: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by luvsports! on Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:55 pm

Interesting match between Fognini and this youngster Jarry.

What do you guys make of this 22yo? He has shot up to 61 in the world and is no16 in the race.
Another 6'6 guy with better groundies than a killer serve.

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Re: ATP 250/500 Tournaments 2018 Thread: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:21 pm

I saw some of the second and third set.

Never heard of him before...can’t believe he is already 61 in the world.

He does have a bullet fh but he needs time to connect to it.

Anyine can bash&slap a shot like that, but can he do it consistently? Not sure.

Forst impression is - a bit like an extreme version of Kachanov.

I enjoyed Fabio”s high moods tennis a lot more.

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Re: ATP 250/500 Tournaments 2018 Thread: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Tenez on Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:26 am

I have not heard or seen him play before. Will have a look.

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Re: ATP 250/500 Tournaments 2018 Thread: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by luvsports! on Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:29 am


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Re: ATP 250/500 Tournaments 2018 Thread: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Tenez on Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:03 am

Yep...a kind of Zverev with proper ground shots. The slow conds here help those kind of tall powerful players. It gives that extra split second to aim and pull in corners.

Will have to be seen whether he can play as well on faster conds. But sliding through the top 70 is quite a good feat and at his "young" age certainly promising.

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Re: ATP 250/500 Tournaments 2018 Thread: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:57 pm

So, the Italians won both clay tournaments yesterday, Fabio and Checcinati. Shame I missed it.

I wish Italians dominated clay, not the Spanish. So much more creativity and flair.

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Re: ATP 250/500 Tournaments 2018 Thread: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Slippy on Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:34 pm

You could get your wish NITB. Fair to say that Spanish tennis looks as weak as it has done at any point in the last 20 years. They’ve still got a fair number of 30+ players in the top 100 but only 3 under 30 and only one under 25 (Jaume Munar). No superstar I’m currently aware of coming through.

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Re: ATP 250/500 Tournaments 2018 Thread: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:00 pm

You've got to admit, Spanish tennis (apart from Feli) is dull and "clay" on all surfaces.

No soul in it...just bring another ball back...they never go crazy!

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Re: ATP 250/500 Tournaments 2018 Thread: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:28 pm

Well, Italians seem to be rolling on clay, a young Berrettini (21) managed to beat Agut in the final today in Gstaad. 
Bravo!

Quite tall and a booming serve, but a classic Italian clay school of tennis, nice! Bubbly



And a proud mention of a Serbian 17 yo Olga Danilovic who won
Moscow as a LL! Applause(first time it ever happened in WTA, apparently)

A lanky leftie whose dad used to be a famous basketball player, the girl’s a born winner!

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Re: ATP 250/500 Tournaments 2018 Thread: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by summerblues on Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:06 am

I gather from Andy's comments they are already using the shot clock on US hard courts.  Anyone seen it in action?

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Re: ATP 250/500 Tournaments 2018 Thread: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:36 am

I haven’t seen it, there’s probably stg on youtube.
Anyway, this is your timezone now, so you need to watch it and tell us!

Stan gets knocked out as a WC  in R1 by Young in three close sets.
I suppose these smaller American hard court tournaments are too fast for him atm...he should’ve started his comeback on clay.

Interesting matches today:

Murray-Edmund
Shapo-Medved
Baggy-Chung

p.s,
Serena got thrashed by Konta yesterday 6:1 6:0. Ouch!

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Re: ATP 250/500 Tournaments 2018 Thread: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Jahu on Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:48 am

Shot clock looked good and clear in Washington yesterday, both sides have it on the wall, not too big to distract but visible nicely and its on only on the opposite side when serving so it does not distract the receiving player. 

Did not see Andy or the other guy going over the time.

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Re: ATP 250/500 Tournaments 2018 Thread: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by legendkillar on Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:05 am

Murray through another 3 setter. He has broken down in tears. Those rare moments when we see what it means to players who come back from injury and setbacks and start playing again.

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Re: ATP 250/500 Tournaments 2018 Thread: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by summerblues on Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:45 pm

Zverev, at 21, is the oldest semifinalist in Washington.

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Re: ATP 250/500 Tournaments 2018 Thread: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Tenez on Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:20 pm

summerblues wrote:Zverev, at 21, is the oldest semifinalist in Washington.
Change of trends...seems to show that the "in-between" generation (from Pouille to Cilic) is useless....unless they dud not even bother entering Washington....don't know as I m not watching any tennis this summer.

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Re: ATP 250/500 Tournaments 2018 Thread: Rio, Marseille, Delray

Post by Jahu on Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:37 pm

Tstsipas kicking himself https://twitter.com/doublefault28/status/1025811487686897665

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