ATP Masters 1000: MIAMI

noleisthebest wrote:I only saw some of the first set, both played well.

It looks like all the energy is going into the pace of shots now rather than the length of rallies. 
Everyone is striking the ball as hard as they can.

Kuznetsov has just struck a 100 mph FH

Looking at Thiem, I reckon Nole has only one year left in him to win slams. It's going to be much much harder next year.

see if you dont hit the lines, then it gives Djokovic time.
federer 2006 would have just made Dhalsim run for air

Tenez wrote:Looking at Thiem, I reckon Nole has only one year left in him to win slams. It's going to be much much harder next year.

But not cause of Djokovic's age, right?

Thiem is like Almagro with brains.

Good groundstrokes but not a choker.

Thiem is the better player but can't get that break point.

1/2 Djok

0/8 Thiem.

A 6/3 is not a fair representation of how close the game was. A bit of a shame Thiem was unable to convert any of his 6 BPs.

He also doesn't go enough DTL on his FH.

Great fight from Thiem and only 21.

But what grit from Nole, love it!

FedererKing wrote:Thiem is the better player but can't get that break point.

1/2 Djok

0/8 Thiem.

Nole's returning is making all the difference.

FedererKing wrote:

Tenez wrote:Looking at Thiem, I reckon Nole has only one year left in him to win slams. It's going to be much much harder next year.

But not cause of Djokovic's age, right?

And nothing to do with other players simply getting better. So once again, Djoko can only beat Fed cause Fed gets old and Thiem will only beat Djoko cause Djoko gets old...so in effect no one will ever be better than Federer....unless Fed only managed to beat Pete cause Pete was already past his best...so who is the best player ever FK? Rainshaw? He won 7 wimbies in the 1800s.

Frustrating to hear teh Commentators on Sky praising Djoko for a lot of things but not for his mouvement.

Without his mouvement, the score woudl be reversed!

Tenez wrote: Frustrating to hear teh Commentators on Sky praising Djoko for a lot of things but not for his mouvement.

Without his mouvement, the score woudl be reversed!

What are they saying?

I am pretty sure Thiem ran more than Nole in this match.
Will be interesting to see the stat.

Works so hard for a break and then promptly throws it away/

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:Frustrating to hear teh Commentators on Sky praising Djoko for a lot of things but not for his mouvement.

Without his mouvement, the score woudl be reversed!

What are they saying?

I am pretty sure Thiem ran more than Nole in this match.
Will be interesting to see the stat.

yes but only because Djoko mouvement is very quick. he is on the ball with so much time to spare. Many would-be winners are coming back. He is the new Hewitt.

noleisthebest wrote:

FedererKing wrote:Thiem is the better player but can't get that break point.

1/2 Djok

0/8 Thiem.

Nole's returning is making all the difference.

No.  0/10 is down to Thiem. Not Djok. He played badly on the bigger points. Djok was here for the taking.

FedererKing wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

FedererKing wrote:Thiem is the better player but can't get that break point.

1/2 Djok

0/8 Thiem.

Nole's returning is making all the difference.

No.  0/10 is down to Thiem. Not Djok. He played badly on the bigger points.  Djok was here for the taking.

For once I agree with FK. Djoko created less BP than Thiem. So Djoko's return helped but certainly not what made the difference.

Tenez wrote:

FedererKing wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

FedererKing wrote:Thiem is the better player but can't get that break point.

1/2 Djok

0/8 Thiem.

Nole's returning is making all the difference.

No.  0/10 is down to Thiem. Not Djok. He played badly on the bigger points.  Djok was here for the taking.

For once I agree with FK. Djoko created less BP than Thiem. So Djoko's return helped but certainly not what made the difference.

Of course it did.

What was Thiem's next shot after he gets the serve back at his shoelaces?

A short ball or a slice, of course.

Thiem plays the BPs points particularly badly!

Yep, Thiem does not have a FHDTL...

I am impressed with Thiem's levels of energy.

1-15 and the "1" was a double fault by Novak. have you ever seen a more gutless performance on break points? I am trying to find one.

What I like about Thiem is his temper.
The rest will come.

He's shown a lot of potential.

And the SBH.

noleisthebest wrote:Nole will demolish him.

He didn't quite demolish him!

Thiem blowing 13 o4 14 BPs is why he lost. But hey, 22yo...not bad. I was impressed by his athletism. he will clean his game up in the next few months. But one thing for sure, playing Djoko and other top players is priceless experience for those youngsters, and the more they are exposed young to those top players, the quicker they will overcome them.

FedererKing wrote:1-15 and the "1" was a double fault by Novak.  have you ever seen a more gutless performance on break points?  I am trying to find one.

It was not gutless. Just thoughtless at times. Very different.

noleisthebest wrote:What I like about Thiem is his temper.
The rest will come.

He's shown a lot of potential.

And the SBH.

Yes his FH is very powerful too.

And stats show that Thiem did run more.

His defending is good, very good for such a young SBH-er.

Nole really is lightning quick.  

He makes everyone else look a step slower in fact. From Thiem to Fed.

But the fact is he is very light and fit.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:Nole will demolish him.

He didn't quite demolish him!

Thiem blowing 13 o4 14 BPs is why he lost. But hey, 22yo...not bad. I was impressed by his athletism. he will clean his game up in the next few months. But one thing for sure, playing Djoko and other top players is priceless experience for those youngsters, and the more they are exposed young to those top players, the quicker they will overcome them.

He's got work to do...mainly the FH, maybe more serve variation, too. Too much wasted energy.

But that's how they are all playing now, hitting the ball as hard as possoble all the time.
There is no thought for a bit of creation, maybe two steps ahead like Simin.
It's all - bang!
And his FH is just not good enough for that for the time being.

Here comes Monf, I wonder if Nole's bought the ticket.

Thiem has the ability to moonball the backhand cross court and then on the next point step in and rip it down the line with power.
His game is more like Almagro than Federer.

The current generation of 27 and under are very weak. Easy for Djokovic- no competition!

The fact that Djokovic was a bit tentative at times tonight made Thiem seem more attacking than he actually is.
I watched him a bit in the South American clay season, (clay being his best surface), and saw how he approached many different players- and if Federer fans think they can get behind him because of his SHBH that's ok, but he's not an attacking player. Very defensive!

I watched him, too, including whennhe beat Nadal (was it in Mexico?).

He is an extremely aggressive player, too aggressive probably.

His heart is definitely in the right place, but his FH needs to change, too big a swing.

He is not a basher.

Tenez wrote:

FedererKing wrote:1-15 and the "1" was a double fault by Novak.  have you ever seen a more gutless performance on break points?  I am trying to find one.

It was not gutless. Just thoughtless at times. Very different.

I guess that's a politically correct way of saying weak / gutless / cowardly. I don't do PC, so no dice.

No, nothing to do with PC. It's simply a very different meaning.

He went for too much many times on those BPs....that's not gutless, that thoughless, or lack of composure. Gutless is when you wait for a mistake.

FedererKing wrote:

Tenez wrote:

FedererKing wrote:1-15 and the "1" was a double fault by Novak.  have you ever seen a more gutless performance on break points?  I am trying to find one.

It was not gutless. Just thoughtless at times. Very different.

I guess that's a politically correct way of saying weak / gutless / cowardly.  I don't do PC, so no dice.

What makes you think he was gutless?

noleisthebest wrote:
He is an extremely aggressive player, too aggressive probably.

LOL!
Today against Djokovic you have to attack... how on earth you watched him in Argentina and thought he was attacking is beyond me, in one rally against Nadal he moonballed 3 shots consecutively on his backhand.
His approach is probably as attacking if not less attacking than Ferrer, but he has more power which covers up for it.

Monfils is a perfect opponent for Dimi...lazy and with poor focus...

Tenez wrote:Gutless is when you wait for a mistake.

No, if you play like a loon on break points and go for broke that for me is also gutless. Shows he lacks the guts to actually fight out the point and do what he did to earn himself the break point in the first place.

DONALD TRUMP wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:
He is an extremely aggressive player, too aggressive probably.

LOL!
Today against Djokovic you have to attack... how on earth you watched him in Argentina and thought he was attacking is beyond me, in one rally against Nadal he moonballed 3 shots consecutively on his backhand.  
His approach is probably as attacking if not less attacking than Ferrer, but he has more power which covers up for it.

You don't have to attack against Djokovic, Simon doesn't.

In that rally he was probably defending Nadal's FH moon-balls. That's Nadal's "speciality" against SBH-ers.

I'd like to see you try and do something else. Tennis is nit a video game Donald...every ball is different.

Thiem's topspin BH is excellent.

DONALD TRUMP wrote:

Tenez wrote:Gutless is when you wait for a mistake.

No, if you play like a loon on break points and go for broke that for me is also gutless. Shows he lacks the guts to actually fight out the point and do what he did to earn himself the break point in the first place.

I paid attention on the last 4 BPs.
Two were shanked returns, one was a rushed FHDTL (maybe panic or inexperience) and one was just very good play from Nole.

Anyway, I am tired...good night

Simon isn't a Slam winner.  Our point entirely.

edit. or even slam finalist.

noleisthebest wrote:
In that rally he was probably defending Nadal's FH moon-balls. That's Nadal's "speciality" against SBH-ers.

I'd like to see you try and do something else. Tennis is nit a video game Donald...every ball is different.

Thiem's  topspin BH is excellent.

Well Nadal just hit his normal cross court forehand, and on clay that's always going to kick up high, I've seen Nadal play many players on clay with a SHBH; Federer, Stan, Wawrinka, Almagro- none of them have moonballed on that backhand side like Thiem has. Maybe Berlocq.

That's not to say you shouldn't support Thiem- he can play pretty shots; but putting his SHBH aside, his balance between attack and defence is probably closer to Ferrer than it is to Federer.
This match in isolation is misleading as he kinda has to attack Djokovic and pull the trigger early- he doesn't tend to do that against most of the tour.

tbh i can't wait for some of these faeries to retire. Top of my list:

Simon, Ferrer, Gasquet especially.

They hang in there like a bad smell and they do sweet FA. I'll dance a jig when all 3 are out of tennis.

DONALD TRUMP wrote:

Tenez wrote:Gutless is when you wait for a mistake.

No, if you play like a loon on break points and go for broke that for me is also gutless. Shows he lacks the guts to actually fight out the point and do what he did to earn himself the break point in the first place.

Spot on.  Maybe the correct word is brainless rather than gutless.  Or maybe both.  I've also seen Federer do this lately - go for ridiculous shots when he has his opponent (usually Djokovic) on the backfoot. 2003-7 Federer would make the shots, today's can't.  But I saw him time and time again lose break point through stubbornness and stupidity.  Thiem was the same.  He was scared to hang in a rally when it really mattered, opting instead for suicide Susan.

This sums it up

Federer against Djokovic on break points these days, I wouldn't say is gutless, I think brainless is correct word.
So many times, he slices the backhand (rather than hitting flat or moving round it), Djokovic then has the chance to hit a deep groundstroke, and then out of nowhere Federer pulls the trigger off-balance and misses.
Back in his prime, Federer would have the confidence to play his normal game against someone like Djokovic, and work the point with controlled aggression.

Dimitrov takes the first set against Monfils. He is much more attacking than Thiem, but too inconsistent. Backhand looking ok, slightly better than last year.

DONALD TRUMP wrote:Dimitrov takes the first set against Monfils. He is much more attacking than Thiem, but too inconsistent. Backhand looking ok, slightly better than last year.

I don't see it like that.

Dimi has a more balanced game and scraps a lot. That only says he doesn't have outstanding weapons.

He is playing better now, but really a very different player from Thiem who is an all out attacker.

FedererKing wrote:tbh i can't wait for some of these faeries to retire. Top of my list:

Simon, Ferrer, Gasquet especially.

They hang in there like a bad smell and they do sweet FA.  I'll dance a jig when all 3 are out of tennis.  

Ok, I understand why you don't like Gasquet as he is gutless.
Ferrer...poor thing he is doing the best he possibly can with what he's been given.


Simon..simply is physically slight. He said the other day attacking takes more energy from him than running.

He is a wonderful cerebral, player that adds variety to the tour.
Much as I love brave attackers, smart, skillful counterpunches can be very attractive, too.

Wow, Monf beat Dimi in the end...would love to see him play Kyrgios, the wannabe Monfils.
Some potentially excellent SF matches.

Dimi is now 4-1 down vs Monfils. I didn't expect him to win.