ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Tenez wrote:I don;t think Stan choked that set at 5/4 serving for the match. he got just too excited. he was at the net to put the ball away....just got the net...it's not like he was scared to hit through and stayed back like nadal did in that set point he had.

But I think getting over excited (heavy breathing, flooded by emotions that the end is almost touchable) is a classic choking symptom, for the attacker.

Yep Tenez he knows he doesn't have very long in the sport too and he isnt as fast as he was that will take its toll on him.

Really glad we have another Stanovic match

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:Stan is a man in love, walking and playing on air.

Nole-Stan tomorrow will be a cracker!

Stan will be knackered. It's 1.40 am there...interview, adrenaline, tiredness...he is not going to sleep before 5am...! Poor scheduling!

Yes, that's a shame.
At least it didn't go to three sets, though if it did, Nadal would've probably wormed his way out as usual.

Just a short warm-up practice after lunch. I assume they will play the 2nd SF.
And then there also the wings of love.

AceofDeath wrote:Yep Tenez he knows he doesn't have very long in the sport too and he isnt as fast as he was that will take its toll on him.

Really glad we have another Stanovic match

Yes, Stanovic matches rarely fail to deliver!

In some way they are the new Fedal.

Tenez wrote:The level of tennis was much bettter in that 1st set....dropped afterwards as one woudl expect as it was so physical.

I can imagine.
I caught a few superb points in the second set, too. The smoothness and quality of ball-striking and fast pace from both (on the baseline!) was incredible.
Stan was particularly impressive.

AceofDeath wrote:Yep Tenez he knows he doesn't have very long in the sport too and he isnt as fast as he was that will take its toll on him.

Really glad we have another Stanovic match

...or the opposition is hitting harder.

DId yuo see the first set? Nadal played pretty well....still came second.

My few bob...

Except for Nishi, all top 8 have played some excellent tennis last two weeks.

If Nishi is injured, he should withdraw from WTF and give a chance to Richie.

I genuinely think all 8 can make it to the semifinal this year.
This may be the highest quality WTF we have had in London.

I agree they are all playing well except Djoko who dropped a notch.

He only appears to have dropped form (- last night he was moving like wind, even I could not believe my eyes!),  same as Fed in Shanghai - that tiny extra lack of match playing confidence after a break can make it or break it depending on the opponent.
Esp on these slow surfaces.

Due to his safer style of play those breaks do affect Nole as much as Fed. 

Stan will stretch him big time today. It's Paris!

On this court Stan is the only one who can beat Nole.

It should be a great match.

Djoko will eat Stan's kidneys.
He will muller yogurt him, he always does in bo3.

What makes you say that?

Stan has played much better than Nole so far.

Look at their matches in bo3.

I had a quick look.
They haven't played many since 2013/14.
Mainly WTF where Stan was debuting in 2013 and last year only made an effort against Fed in that epic SF match.
My prediction was based on how they played here in Bercy, not the stats.

I even mentioned early on this thread that Stan should make the most of these courts and was right.

So long as he was able to recover a bit...it was a long and very late match. That's the only big minus for him. Nole's match against Berd also took a lot out of him but he will have has a good night sleep and advantage in recovery.

Same goes for poor Ferrer.
When I saw him play Murray in RG I could not believe how physically superior Murray was/has become.
Ferrer was able to play his game as always but Murray's muscle made him look like a little kid.
I felt sorry for him.

Paris '13: 6-1 6-4 Novak
WTF '13: 6-3 6-3 Novak
Wtf '14: 6-3 6-0 Novak
Cincy '15: 6-4 6-1 Novak

I watched the second set. Ferrer certainly lacks the firepower against someone who can run so much.

Yes, I noticed that too! Sickening how Murray used his legs to employ an expansive, all court game. To be fair, he did show some good touch at the net, but only because of his cheap exploitation of depth perception. If you poked out one of his eyes, he would have probably lost 6-1, 6-1.

Nothing hurts more, in tennis matter, than the bigging up of the Wimby 2008 travesty final!

Tenez wrote:Nothing hurts more, in tennis matter, than the bigging up of the Wimby 2008 travesty final!

Why do you say that?

Aut0Gr4ph wrote:Yes, I noticed that too! Sickening how Murray used his legs to employ an expansive, all court game. To be fair, he did show some good touch at the net, but only because of his cheap exploitation of depth perception. If you poked out one of his eyes, he would have probably lost 6-1, 6-1.

I didn't watch the match so can't comment.
Was it the usual muscling percentage CC tennis?

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:Nothing hurts more, in tennis matter, than the bigging up of the Wimby 2008 travesty final!

Why do you say that?

Cause sky is just making a big thing about it now. They skipped the 5 previous Wimby finals Fed won to mention how 2008 was the greatest.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:Nothing hurts more, in tennis matter, than the bigging up of the Wimby 2008 travesty final!

Why do you say that?

Cause sky is just making a big thing about it now. They skipped the 5 previous Wimby finals Fed won to mention how 2008 was the greatest.

The worst is you are paying to watch and listen to it!

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:Nothing hurts more, in tennis matter, than the bigging up of the Wimby 2008 travesty final!

Why do you say that?

Cause sky is just making a big thing about it now. They skipped the 5 previous Wimby finals Fed won to mention how 2008 was the greatest.

The worst is you are paying to watch and listen to it!

I am not thankfully. Just use livestream.

Tenez wrote:
I am not thankfully. Just use livestream.

That's a relief!

Yes, the brainwashing of 2008 Wimbledon final has always been irritating.
And as you know I am annoyed with Federer for playing along media always praising Nadal.

Even last week or so he said how Nadal is the best player he's ever faced.

Now if he can say that, then what to expect from parrots on Sky?

luvsports! wrote:Paris '13: 6-1 6-4 Novak
WTF '13: 6-3 6-3 Novak
Wtf '14: 6-3 6-0 Novak
Cincy '15: 6-4 6-1 Novak

LS, what do you make of the difference between their recent matches in Bo5 and Bo3?  Surely you are not suggesting that Nole cannot keep up with Stan over five sets?

To me, their recent slam matches indicate that Stan is able to play with Nole on just about even terms when he puts his mind to it.  I just suspect he finds it more difficult to focus on every match week-in and week-out.  But if he is dialed in today, I see no reason why he could not give Nole trouble.

Stan is definitely very tired.
Even if he wins today on adrenaline, he'll have nothing left tomorrow.

summerblues wrote:

luvsports! wrote:Paris '13: 6-1 6-4 Novak
WTF '13: 6-3 6-3 Novak
Wtf '14: 6-3 6-0 Novak
Cincy '15: 6-4 6-1 Novak

LS, what do you make of the difference between their recent matches in Bo5 and Bo3?  Surely you are not suggesting that Nole cannot keep up with Stan over five sets?

To me, their recent slam matches indicate that Stan is able to play with Nole on just about even terms when he puts his mind to it.  I just suspect he finds it more difficult to focus on every match week-in and week-out.  But if he is dialed in today, I see no reason why he could not give Nole trouble.

I see what you mean but it;s not as clear cut.

Federer who has a poor 5 setter record was the only one who coudl beat nadal in the 5th set (did at Miami 05 and Wimby 2007). This I think can be explained by the pace at which Nadal and Djoko have to retrieve the ball. the harder the ball is hit, the more draining it is to get to that ball, and if they get tired, the ball comes back shorter and it s easier to angle and pace up....making it even harder for the retriever. I think this is what happened to Djoko when Stan beat him for the first time in the 5th set AO14 or even in Paris. It's much more draining to get to a ball at full speed (v Stan) than just a tiny bit less than full speed (v Nadal for instance). What I am saying is that running at let's say 30kmh is much more consuming than running at 27kmh. 5 sets of having to contain Soderling or Stan is not the same 5 sets of containing a less powerful player.

Stan hasn't shown up. really exhausted he seems.

luvsports! wrote:Djoko will eat Stan's kidneys.
He will muller yogurt him, he always does in bo3.

I wouldn't bank on that.  I think people are grossly overestimating how hard it is to continually win matches. Wawrinka looks like levelling this 1-1 and has every chance of winning.

It's really weird that a player as talented as Stan can have such a poorer record than someone like Djoko, whose main merit is hard working and professionalism....cause shots for shots, it's not close.

I expect Murray to beat Djokovic, should Wawrinka lose this.  I think he has the form at the minute and he has the defensive skills to do what Nadal and Djokovic do... put ball back endlessly.

I doubt Murray has the shots to trouble a poor form Djoko.

The match fizzled out after the second set

the fitter won....again.

Tenez wrote:I doubt Murray has the shots to trouble a poor form Djoko.

Murray has beaten a peak Djokovic before, you know...

FedererKing wrote:

Tenez wrote:I doubt Murray has the shots to trouble a poor form Djoko.

Murray has beaten a peak Djokovic before, you know...

No. I am actually not aware. When was that?

Well he beat him this year at Montreal. Nole wasn;t at his best but it was still during his peak that is this year.

Tenez wrote:I doubt Murray has the shots to trouble a poor form Djoko.

Of course, the fitter player always wins, except when they don't, like the French Open final this year. Or is that the exception that proves the rule? Of course that was just a best of 5 set match on clay, so not such a stern test of fitness compared to today's marathon match....

As LS points out, Stan's actually fares better in BO5 against Novak, having won 2 of the last 3 (including 9-7 in the fifth at the Oz Open), while he hasn't won a BO3 since 2006 and has barely taken taken a set in that format since then. Where does that leave your fitness is everything theory? Something doesn't quite add up if you ask me.

In a similar vein, Fed has won his last 5 matches against Murray. Applying your theory, does that mean that Fed is simply the fitter player? Should we be telling him to ease up in the gym to give Murray a sporting chance? Or is this just another exception that absolutely definitely proves the rule?

noleisthebest wrote:

Aut0Gr4ph wrote:Yes, I noticed that too! Sickening how Murray used his legs to employ an expansive, all court game. To be fair, he did show some good touch at the net, but only because of his cheap exploitation of depth perception. If you poked out one of his eyes, he would have probably lost 6-1, 6-1.

I didn't watch the match so can't comment.
Was it the usual muscling percentage CC tennis?

To my untrained eye, he seemed to be hitting quite a few BHDTL shots, but then he has a two-hander, so they don't really count, obviously.

luvsports! wrote:Well he beat him this year at Montreal. Nole wasn;t at his best but it was still during his peak that is this year.

And his peak was 2011 anyway, but it doesn't matter.  Tenez seems to wish away facts that are inconvenient and replace them with ones that support what he wants to be true - rather than what IS.  Suddenly, Djokovic is an unbeatable superhuman.  And let's not forget that Djokovic and his impossible-to-beat backhand were taken out by Wawrinka - not anywhere near as good as peak Federer.

Whether you like it or not Tenez, Wawrinka has ripped through quite a lot of your beliefs this year.  He's taken out your Skynet with a one handed backhand on the slowest most physically demanding surface - something you assured me was not even possible. Well, I disagreed and even put 100 quid on it.

Do not be surprised to see Murray triumph in the final.

Aut0Gr4ph wrote:

Tenez wrote:I doubt Murray has the shots to trouble a poor form Djoko.

Of course, the fitter player always wins, except when they don't, like the French Open final this year. Or is that the exception that proves the rule? Of course that was just a best of 5 set match on clay, so not such a stern test of fitness compared to today's marathon match....

Yes it happens that the shot maker once every 2 years beats the fitter player. It may have helped though that the fitter player had just had a gruelling match v Murray. So maybe he was not the fitter player that day.

Murray's face after that long rally in the second point of the match:
"Bloody hell, what have I got myself into here..."

After a long rally Murray tries to get his 30 seconds & catch breath "legally" by walking to umpire complaining about some door in the ceiling casting shadows...

Good to see Novak not just waiting for errors today

Backhand to backhand - only 1 winner

AceofDeath wrote:Good to see Novak not just waiting for errors today

His shots are much closer to the lines and with lower net clearance, though.
I am actually enjoying this match.

Murray played one or two proper points when he finished with a good volley and that's about it.
Roger he ain't and never will be.

By those muscles he lives (against almost everyone on the tour) and dies (against Nole and Fed or anyone else that can make him run on the day).

AceofDeath wrote:Backhand to backhand - only 1 winner

I find it interesting that Djokovic is now making more use and benefit of his BH slice than Murray.

The only "thing" missing in this match is Stan.

NOleisthebest

How many top 10 wins Nole had this year now?

Wrong person to ask I'm afraid. It's all in the eye with me.

But I remember when he won it the first time beating Monfils. He was wild in his celebrations back in those days.