How And When Is Nadal Going To Retire?
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Re: How And When Is Nadal Going To Retire?
Why?luvsports! wrote:I thought it was rather axiomatic 2bh.
You reach a point that takes too much out of you, for your own sake it is not good to go back to those levels.
I didn't say he tried to get less fit. I just think he altered his approach accordingly to be more aggressive against nadal. Focusing on going for his shots more than improving his fitness further still as I believe Nadal has done.
It's not like he just outlasted Nadal, he outlasted Nadal DESPITE playing a far longer 5 set semi a day after Nadal. So it's a double blow launched on Nadal.
If you've just won 4 of the last 5 grand slams doing something (as Djokovic had done at AO 2012), why fundamentally would Djokovic even consider changing anything?
This makes absolutely no sense.
If you've climbed Mount Everest using a certain technique, which is hugely successful but takes a lot of hard work, next time you try and climb the mountain anyone sensible person would do the same again.
I'm sorry, my theories are actually logical here:
1/ Mental lapses-
Djokovic I think was prone to mental lapses throughout 2012 and 2013. These are, by definition, inexplicable- his mind seems to wonder and he loses the plot for a 15 minute period or so. Nadal did not really have this problem, not yet anyway; while Federer developed these lapses as he got older.
Examples can be against the likes of Haas (Miami 2013) and Isner (Cincy 2013), can we really believe Haas and Isner have better fitness and stamina than Djokovic??
So my first theory to his relatively poor results in 2012/2013 is his tendency to go mentally walkabout for periods.
2/ Forced to be more aggressive against Nadal-
My second theory is on his specific match-up against Nadal, and I believe I have overwhelming evidence to suggest this is true.
In 2011 Nadal tactically played Djokovic like he plays Federer, in his comfort zone- with many neutral rallies to the backhand. However in 2011 Djokovic was simply too solid, and knew that he could have these rallies without taking too much of a risk- as he was aware eventually gaps would open up that he could feed into.
However in 2012, especially during the French Open, Nadal showed a notable change against Djokovic. Instead of going to the backhand, Nadal was making all the efforts he could to rip the forehand down the line, whenever he had the chance. Nadal realised that if he didn't implement this gameplan change, he was toast. This also coincided with a heavier racket which Nadal used in 2012, which was in place to ensure he could get more depth.
As Jim Courier himself said during the French Open 2012, and I have this record on V+, 'Nadal is killing Djokovic with the forehand down-the-line here'. If you can watch highlights of the match, in the first game Nadal breaks Djokovic with 2 sensational forehand winners down the line.
Anyway, this change-up from Nadal meant that Djokovic realised he had to do more than just keep it a neutral rally- he had to try and dominate more aggressively from the baseline (as he can with his sensational groundstrokes).
This can primarily explain the shift in Djokovic's game-play, he needs to get on top of Nadal early, and cannot let Nadal get time on the forehand. Encouraging news for Djokovic fans though is that Nole has the ability to do that if he serves and returns well- look at WTF final 2013. However it is a high risk strategy, and may backfire easily.
N2D2L- Posts : 5813
Join date : 2013-05-03
Re: How And When Is Nadal Going To Retire?
Clearly you cannot see the change in DJoko, but you go on about the change Nadal made.
luvsports!- Posts : 4718
Join date : 2012-09-28
Re: How And When Is Nadal Going To Retire?
?luvsports! wrote:Clearly you cannot see the change in DJoko, but you go on about the change Nadal made.
I have recognised the changes Djokovic has made against Nadal, it is clear.
An extract from my theory number 2:
Anyway, this change-up from Nadal meant that Djokovic realised he had to do more than just keep it a neutral rally- he had to try and dominate more aggressively from the baseline (as he can with his sensational groundstrokes).
This can primarily explain the shift in Djokovic's game-play, he needs to get on top of Nadal early, and cannot let Nadal get time on the forehand.
N2D2L- Posts : 5813
Join date : 2013-05-03
Re: How And When Is Nadal Going To Retire?
That is what you think, I disagree. Therefore I don't think you have it right. Simple.
luvsports!- Posts : 4718
Join date : 2012-09-28
N2D2L- Posts : 5813
Join date : 2013-05-03
Re: How And When Is Nadal Going To Retire?
:O You have proved me wrong! I have changed all my stances and now completely agree with what this article has said!
I see it now it is so clear.....
I said he made changes, that is clear, but for me it comes down more to djoko than nadal.
I see it now it is so clear.....
I said he made changes, that is clear, but for me it comes down more to djoko than nadal.
luvsports!- Posts : 4718
Join date : 2012-09-28
Re: How And When Is Nadal Going To Retire?
I am saying they have both made changes; while you are suggesting that Djokovic randomly shot himself in the foot.luvsports! wrote::O You have proved me wrong! I have changed all my stances and now completely agree with what this article has said!
I see it now it is so clear.....
I said he made changes, that is clear, but for me it comes down more to djoko than nadal.
I still can't logically understand why a player who has won 4 out of the last 5 Slams, has passed the stiffest stamina test possible and come through unscathed; would then suddenly decide to change his game-plan.
Both Nadal and Djokovic realise that getting on top of the rally is crucial to the rivalry, hence both players are playing more aggressive than before when against each other.
N2D2L- Posts : 5813
Join date : 2013-05-03
Re: How And When Is Nadal Going To Retire?
Because I believe he was spent physically and emotionally from such a herculean effort in aus.
After Aus, in '12, I didn't think novak was mentally quite there anymore in the big moments (rome, wimby, us open), he just didn't seem the same player after it.
I could be wrong but that is just my view. If he could continue at that incredible level of fitness perhaps he would of but I think he hit the wall and didn;t want to push himself that far again.
In an effort to combat this he has tried to improve his volley game to shorten the points.
If he continued to do those marathons I think it may have broken him.
Therefore I think he made a conscious effort to try and be more aggressive and take more risks.
But also I think djoko's level has dropped. You just don;t really see that dtl bh anymore, as it was so common to see in '11. If he gets that back I think he can turn it around.
After Aus, in '12, I didn't think novak was mentally quite there anymore in the big moments (rome, wimby, us open), he just didn't seem the same player after it.
I could be wrong but that is just my view. If he could continue at that incredible level of fitness perhaps he would of but I think he hit the wall and didn;t want to push himself that far again.
In an effort to combat this he has tried to improve his volley game to shorten the points.
If he continued to do those marathons I think it may have broken him.
Therefore I think he made a conscious effort to try and be more aggressive and take more risks.
But also I think djoko's level has dropped. You just don;t really see that dtl bh anymore, as it was so common to see in '11. If he gets that back I think he can turn it around.
luvsports!- Posts : 4718
Join date : 2012-09-28
Re: How And When Is Nadal Going To Retire?
Are the two really connected? Are you suggesting he was still tired from the AO match in the USO final?luvsports! wrote:Because I believe he was spent physically and emotionally from such a herculean effort in aus.
After Aus, in '12, I didn't think novak was mentally quite there anymore in the big moments (rome, wimby, us open), he just didn't seem the same player after it.
I think you're trying to find a connection when there is none.
N2D2L- Posts : 5813
Join date : 2013-05-03
Re: How And When Is Nadal Going To Retire?
1) No, obviously not, i don't know how you made that assumption.
Novak was more aggressive, so he made more errors. This was from, imo, his change in mindset to a predominantly more risk taking style without relying on his fitness to outlast opponents anymore.
I remember on v2 many saying that murray outlasted novak which was interesting, considering his 11 hour sf/f compared to a much shorter sf/f in the US.
Not being as confident hindered him greatly.
2) Having physical superiority is a huge mental thing.
I thought Nadal looked weak mentally when Djoko went on that winning streak in '11 and clearly in key moments djoko as well in '12 and '13.
I'm off to bed now, early start.
I expect you will continue to disagree and say I have no "logic".
Novak was more aggressive, so he made more errors. This was from, imo, his change in mindset to a predominantly more risk taking style without relying on his fitness to outlast opponents anymore.
I remember on v2 many saying that murray outlasted novak which was interesting, considering his 11 hour sf/f compared to a much shorter sf/f in the US.
Not being as confident hindered him greatly.
2) Having physical superiority is a huge mental thing.
I thought Nadal looked weak mentally when Djoko went on that winning streak in '11 and clearly in key moments djoko as well in '12 and '13.
I'm off to bed now, early start.
I expect you will continue to disagree and say I have no "logic".
luvsports!- Posts : 4718
Join date : 2012-09-28
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