ATP Tour Final - The Draw

There is absolutely no depth in rafa's shots....cause he is trying to take the ball earlier.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:Why not?
Imagine if he put all that bicep effort into a flatter struck FH from the base-line.
He'd be hitting it harder than Murray and all the time as he is fitter and better mover.
Worst of all he'd play percentage shots with it.
Anyway, that's my "vision" of Nadal, version 3.0.

but so many people can do that better than him. His strength was that he had that unique spin....bouncing vertically....so tough because unique on the tour. If he loses that he has to fight with everybody else weapons...and he is certainly not the best at it.

Who?
Not with that size of bicep, stem-cell fitness and stubbornness.
The closest to that is Murray, but he is not such a good mover as Nadal.

This point at 0/40 on Nadal serve perfectly described that. Nadal tried to take the ball earlier and as a result his shot lacked spin and pace...allowing Djoko to dictate.

Nadal has very little option cause ultimately he has not got the skills.

Sorry, didn't see any of it, just came back from the gym.

I really think grip is the problem, what's the point of taking the ball earlier if you waste all that time to load useless spin which delivers short balls.
He doesn't have enough time for the spin with western grip from the base line.

61 *sixty one) set all!!!! between Nadal and Djoko.

London is slow but still too fast for Nadal.

nadal is certaoinluy on top form.

Well at least for me, it's great to see Humble Bull humbled and subdued.
About time.

Tenez wrote:61 *sixty one) set all!!!! between Nadal and Djoko.

London is slow but still too fast for Nadal.

What do you mean?

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:Why not?
Imagine if he put all that bicep effort into a flatter struck FH from the base-line.
He'd be hitting it harder than Murray and all the time as he is fitter and better mover.
Worst of all he'd play percentage shots with it.
Anyway, that's my "vision" of Nadal, version 3.0.

but so many people can do that better than him. His strength was that he had that unique spin....bouncing vertically....so tough because unique on the tour. If he loses that he has to fight with everybody else weapons...and he is certainly not the best at it.

Who?
Not with that size of bicep, stem-cell fitness and stubbornness.
The closest to that is Murray, but he is not such a good mover as Nadal.

This point at 0/40 on Nadal serve perfectly described that. Nadal tried to take the ball earlier and as a result his shot lacked spin and pace...allowing Djoko to dictate.

Nadal has very little option cause ultimately he has not got the skills.

Sorry, didn't see any of it, just came back from the gym.

I really think grip is the problem, what's the point of taking the ball earlier if you waste all that time to load useless spin which delivers short balls.
He doesn't have enough time for the spin with western grip from the base line.

You are right...The grip is a problem if he takes the ball earlier...But the thing is changing grip and style now is not quite an option.

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:61 *sixty one) set all!!!! between Nadal and Djoko.

London is slow but still too fast for Nadal.

What do you mean?

They have played 122 sets against each other in their career.

remember whetn it used to be 10 rallies plus on average? Not anymore.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:61 *sixty one) set all!!!! between Nadal and Djoko.
London is slow but still too fast for Nadal.

What do you mean?

They have played 122 sets against each other in their career.

That's a lot of tennis...
And it took Nole nearly 10 years to catch the H2H.

Would be interesting to see the surface ratio of Nadal's 22 wins.

Talking of H2H, I think it's quite cool how Fed guards his one against Nole jealously.

Tenez wrote:remember whetn it used to be 10 rallies plus on average? Not anymore.

Yes...I've spent many hours behind the sofa.
It was so ugly.

Tenez wrote:The gap is not so much between Rafa and Djoko but between how Rafa and Fed handle Djoko.

This shows the real gap between Nadal and Federer talentwise.

Very true.

I have also always been impressed with how Fed dismantles big servers.

And another long rally going Djoko.

There goes Nadal..when a break point down reverts to a long rally.
And loses.

henman agreeing with you reg the grip.

Tenez wrote:henman agreeing with you reg the grip.

Goodall just blabbing the usual useless bombastic "Nadal needs to find a higher level" cliches...

Btw, what did Tim actually say?

rafa stood back on the return and returned better!

rafa stood back on the return and returned better!

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:henman agreeing with you reg the grip.

Goodall just blabbing the usual useless bombastic "Nadal needs to find a higher level" cliches...

Btw, what did Tim actually say?

Said it was tough for Nadal to hit ho FH when the ball was shooting low through the court..because of his grip.

nadal plays much better when he stands back.

Tenez wrote:rafa stood back on the return and returned better!

Yes, and not just on return.
Will be interesting to see how long he stays there.

Tenez wrote:nadal plays much better when  he stands back.

Looking at him now, I can't believe he topped his group with three wins.

What an awesome lob!

It's amazing how much time Nole has to come back to middle of baseline after returning that far corner FH from Nadal.

noleisthebest wrote:What an awesome lob!

And another one!

henman is very sparse with his words.

Not very complementary to Djoko....something I noticed a while back.

very onde sided match ...3 and 3 is actually quite good on Nadal's display.

Tenez wrote:henman is very sparse with his words.

Not very complementary to Djoko....something I noticed a while back.

Old school.

Poor Amri/Larry/Jullia/Kim/Donald...

Did I miss any names?

Yes, look at the difference how Fed dealt with Nole.
It really was pure talent & guile.

Nadal has never beaten Nole with talent. Only fitness.

What a flat match that was.

I just can't get over the gap between Nadal and Djokovic now.

Incredible,when you think how very different it all was only two years ago.

So at 22:22 in their head to head, Djokovic and Nadal have reached the phase in their rivalry where Nadal makes Djokovic look invincible and Djokovic makes Nadal look useless.

Djokovic played great; crowd was very pro-Nadal but they couldn't lift Nadal.
Djokovic was serving and returning impeccably, and after that it's always a tough ask for Nadal.

Still a great week for Nadal overall, I think he can reach the level of Murray/Fed/Stan next year; but not sure who can stop Djokovic in a BO5 tbh.

noleisthebest wrote:So at 22:22 in their head to head, Djokovic and Nadal have reached the phase in their rivalry where Nadal makes Djokovic look invincible and Djokovic makes Nadal look useless.

I remember I wrote an article on the Beeb at the very beginning of their rivalry and I was saying that Nadal was benfitting from being a year older cause I felt that Djoko was better than nadal at the same age. Nadal made the most of that age and physical advantage....but now it's going to be pay back time.

This is actually a huge blow to the GOAT argument Nadal fans held against Fed. Unlike federer, Nadal was not even the best of his generation.

Just started watching, glad Fed broke back.

Looks a but edgy and rattled.
Did anything odd happen in the first 7 games?

Fed's volleying is getting better by the day.

His timing, and feel for the ball and control are really incredible.

Fed in his flying groove.
Baseline, what baseline?

Stan being a really good boy and not killing himself to win this match like last year.

Btw, I really don't understand why Stan's ex-wife is watching this match in O2...after all the dirty laundry she aired in public last year.
Women...

Very similar to their Rome match. Stan starts fast then fades badly.

Fed making Stan look robotic and 1D.

Perfect match. Fed should be reasonably fresh for tomorrow. Almost as good as a walkover.

Fed fighting for number two, as well.

Shame I coudl not watch it....If I subscribe for one day at tennisTV can I see it there?

watching it now....

Tenez wrote:watching it now....

Enjoy...and good-night.

will do...night night...

Nadal can't change his ga,e now - it's too late.  He doesn't have the ability to shortern points like Federer so whenever he comes up against Djokovic, he is beaten at his own game.

As for Federer's chances, it depends which one shows up. The nervous federer who can't hit a 1st serve, or the fearless Federer who goes for his shots and makes them.  After what happened at Wimbledon twice and US Open, I have to go with Djokovic in 2.  I think Federer will turn up a bag of nerves like last time and hand it away.  And that's assuming he can bring his best, because he's 34 now and it's a lot tougher to do.  But if he comes prepared to fight, he has every chance. One good thing is the gained confidence from beating Novak the other day.

I'm told this is Nadal's year:

0 Slams
0 Masters (1 final)
0-4 vs Djokovic (no sets won or a single tie-break)
0-1 vs Old Fed

FedererKing wrote:I'm told this is Nadal's year:

0 Slams
0 Masters (1 final)
0-4 vs Djokovic (no sets won or a single tie-break)
0-1 vs Old Fed

But he did beat Murray the other day quite convincingly.

Pretty small plus given that resume.

Fed-Stan SF match was so different this year.

No physical baseline energy wasting.

I don't think it was because Stan played worse. Fed didn't let him play any better (just like Djokovic on Tuesday).

As a result - he is actually going to turn up in the final and have a good chance of winning.

I wonder if that training with Paire and practicing SABR shrpened his timing?

It was amazing last night.

It looked as if it was easier to control the ball from 1m close to the net than from the baseline.

I suppose there he only needs his talent.

He is definitely enjoying his tennis more than ever.