ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Tenez wrote:
Are you sure of this? I remember it is a carpet (slow one of course) set on wooden floor. I even remember players complaining about bumps on the carpet, even tapping on it .

I touched it when I was there, on one of the practice courts...def not a carpet.
Just as I desceibed it: hard, rigid,  unyielding surface that feels like sandpaper.

Looks like it is acrylic paint on wooden floor.
"As is customary for quick-installation inside an arena, the ATP World Tour Finals will again employ a wooden surface—this version laid by Greenset—for the singular court inside O2. Multiple layers of acrylic paint on top form the hard court which, according to Barclays ATP World Tour Finals event director Adam Hogg, aims to “deliver a medium-paced fair surface which allows all styles of play to thrive, while also delivering exciting tennis.""

I certainly remember that one baseline was wobbly as the paint coat was bubbling slightly. also remember that many players were looking in astonishment at some of the bounce.
There is no concrete base like there woudl be in slams.

Tenez wrote:Looks like it is acrylic paint on wooden floor.
"As is customary for quick-installation inside an arena, the ATP World Tour Finals will again employ a wooden surface—this version laid by Greenset—for the singular court inside O2. Multiple layers of acrylic paint on top form the hard court which, according to Barclays ATP World Tour Finals event director Adam Hogg, aims to “deliver a medium-paced fair surface which allows all styles of play to thrive, while also delivering exciting tennis.""

Unfortunately, this surface encourages only baseline tennis. It's far from being fair to all styles of play.
Maybe all styles of BASELINE play...

Tenez wrote:
I certainly remember that one baseline was wobbly as the paint coat was bubbling slightly.  also remember that many players were looking in astonishment at some of the bounce.
There is no concrete base like there woudl be in slams.

That was probably in early days.
The worst surface malfunction I remember was in USO a few years ago when the crack appeared in the court and Roddick refused to play on it.

Here it is:


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rxBW39xuCOY

Impressive first game from Nole.
Nishi barely get his racquet on the ball.

Nishi really suffering with his serving...a few extra inches would make him a formidable player.

He is having to work twice as hard to get himself into an attacking position against good returners.

Come on Nishi! Hold serve!

Nishi needs to take more risk, try and play like Stan a bit.
He won't get far with CC exchanges with Nole.

Nishi actually plays very lazy  conservative tennis for the size of his talent.
When you watch him, he is satisfied with the fact he can loosely whip the ball and that's where it ends for him. Just not enough.

He enjoys striking the ball more than playing it.

He strikes big but doesn't think big.

did not watch any of it.....and glad i did not.

On my way to O2.
Let's go Roger, let's go! 

In my lovely seat, O2 is packed!
Blue floodlit court looks great as usual!

Heartbeat players' entrance about to start...

Just joined at 3/0 up second set.....hope you are enjoying it N, though it's going tp be a short match!

He was 2-0 down in 1st set, but Berdych is just not competing now at all. Federer killing him.

FedererKing wrote:He was 2-0 down in 1st set, but Berdych is just not competing now at all. Federer killing him.

Ah...did not know that.

the only down thing I noted from Fed is his serve accuracy......looked not as precise as it can be. Only 4 aces and 4 DFs.....that's not a good ratio.

But he played some great shots in the 4 games I saw.

Tenez wrote:did not watch any of it.....and glad i did not.

Good on you!

Did it ever happen before the main challenger for the number one player is a 34 y/o?
Or the so called other challengers were injured or came back from injury? (Nadal, Murray, Nishi, Rao)
Or never were challengers at all? (Berdych, Ferrer, Dimi, any american)
Or only were having a few top weeks a year? (Stan)

Djoko's peak couldn't happen at a better time. There simply is no competition. The fact Federer virtually only loses to Djoko tells the whole story. This and the current state of courts/balls will secure a lot more slams for Djoko upcoming years.

yep....must have been depressing to see Nishi being bulldozed by super fit Djoko.

I don;t think it;s a question of competition as much as it is Djoko being simply head and shoulder above the rest physically on slow pace conditions which suit him to perfection.

It's a bit like if suddenly they were to turn all courts into varnised wooden surfaces and reduce the size of the balls!. Suddenly karlovic woudl be the best player in teh world and untouchable.

last time we had such dominance (besides Federer), it was down to amazing fitness (Borg, Nadal). Djoko has simply reached a new level in that department, helped as you say by such slow conditiions.

Tenez wrote:Just joined at 3/0 up second set.....hope you are enjoying it N, though it's going tp be a short match!

I did!
Short but sweet.

The BH was brilliant. Stole the show as usual.

Toyed with Berd sending slices to his BH making him look more mechanical and useless than ever.

gallery play wrote:

Tenez wrote:did not watch any of it.....and glad i did not.

Good on you!

Did it ever happen before the main challenger for the number one player is a 34 y/o?
Or the so called other challengers were injured or came back from injury? (Nadal, Murray, Nishi, Rao)
Or never were challengers at all? (Berdych, Ferrer, Dimi, any american)
Or only were having a few top weeks a year? (Stan)

Djoko's peak couldn't happen at a better time. There simply is no competition. The fact Federer virtually only loses to Djoko tells the whole story. This and the current state of courts/balls will secure a lot more slams for Djoko upcoming years.

Part of the problem is that players are spendong more time on the gym than practicing their shots.
But the tide is beginning to change.

The real problem are playing comditions. They are the ones breeding fitness and percentage tennis.

Tenez wrote: it is Djoko being simply head and shoulder above the rest physically on slow pace conditions which suit him to perfection.

The conditions are equal for everyone. If there's no player -except Djoko- who can live with it, than there's something really wrong with the competition (Djoko has)

It's no different than when Borg was dominating, or lance for that purpose. When someone is above physically, there is not much the rest can do.

When the winner is sorted by a good share of talent, then it's harder to be consistent at the top.

Djoko has so far the perfect defence/aggression ratio. he is so quick on the ball that he can even afford to dictate.

Why are the others not catching up physically? not sure. As Djoko says he is surrounded by a great team and he is himself extremely focused and professional.

Dead boring professional.


,

The way O2 is playing (and the bounce isn't that low btw), this tournament is all about first serve, baseline and footwork.
Very little margin for any lapses.

One of the privileges of watching live was I could feast my eyes on Fed all the time

I noticed he lost quite a few points (3-4+) when he moved inside the baseline to return 2nd serve.
Those 3-4 points can make the world of difference in a tight match.
It's a big risk to think he could return meaningfully, because most of those times he didn't - finding himself in no man's land sprinting back to the baseline with little steps and losing that crucial baseline control.
All Berd did was just return Fed's return deeply mid court and Fed was on the defensive.

But there is no way Djokovic will be that kind.

He was timing the ball so well against Nishi.

Good thing was Fed's BH was excellent. And he tried SABR 3 times . Loved it!!!!!! (even though they didn't work).

I really look forward to Tuesday's match.

Federer played decent, but Berdych was well below his best. He lost a lot of points he clearly should have won.

noleisthebest wrote:The way O2 is playing (and the bounce isn't that low btw), this tournament is all about first serve, baseline and footwork.
Very little margin for any lapses.

One of the privileges of watching live was I could feast my eyes on Fed all the time

I noticed he lost quite a few points (3-4+) when he moved inside the baseline to return 2nd serve.
Those 3-4 points can make the world of difference in a tight match.
It's a big risk to think he could return meaningfully, because most of those times he didn't - finding himself in no man's land sprinting back to the baseline with little steps and losing that crucial baseline control.
All Berd did was just return Fed's return deeply mid court and Fed was on the defensive.

But there is no way Djokovic will be that kind.

He was timing the ball so well against Nishi.

Good thing was Fed's BH was excellent. And he tried SABR 3 times . Loved it!!!!!! (even though they didn't work).

I really look forward to Tuesday's match.

Yep, those sabr are not very efficient though I expect the success ratio to improve as he gets the timing of the court. But in any case it won't be enough to win v Djoko. He will need to have the rest of his game perfect.

In that paragraph you highlighted I was talking about his "ordinary" 2nd serve returning, not SABR.

As for SABR, I think it's brilliant and essential for him now. Players really don't like it as it keeps them on edge knowing how good he is at the net.

It's not a winning gameplan per se but definitely a great tool he's introduced.

And it's so good to watch him do it.

Yes, O2 suits Nole to a tee and disadvantages/blunts Fed's attacking tennis.

Although the match will be mostly played on the baseline tomorrow, I think it will be won with those points at the net.

Fed's variety yesterday completely seized up coils and springs of Berd's inner mechanism.
He was wrong-footing him at will.

The court is not that low bouncing, except on slices.
I don't know which balls exactly they are using, but they are certainly not lively.

Nadal-Murray match will tell us more.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Federer played decent, but Berdych was well below his best. He lost a lot of points he clearly should have won.

Fed was too good for Berd.

The contrast between the two could not be any starker.
Fed killed Berd's heavy footwork with mid-court short slices and rich variety, exposing his 1d game.

Fed had no need of "rallying" and giving any rhythm to Berdych. He's got the talent to deconstruct players of that calibre.

Even when he had a chance to put the ball away, Berd stuffed it as Fed took all his confidence from him - that's how you beat Berdych.

With Nole - he essentially does the same except that Nole is a superior mover and has a more versatile BH than Berd.

the court is really slow...it's comical.

Stan slices (BH and FH) are awful. I am not sure whether this is due to his extreme grip. but they bounce his racquet way to high.

...and then he pulls the most amazing BH slice return!

I must say I am enjoying Nadal's game a bit more nowadays. he has added a bit more variety to it.

lots of BH UEs from Stan!

Stan looks particularly slow on his feet today.

this surfaces has produced such a series of useless one sided matches.

Murray is going to beat Nadal convincingly....I feel.

I just got to watch that and already in 2010.....Murray giving Nadal some tough lessons.

Lovely evening !

Nadal played really well, very pleased, Stan was way too inconsistent and seemed to have no Plan B.

Tenez wrote:Stan slices (BH and FH) are awful. I am not sure whether this is due to his extreme grip. but they bounce his racquet way to high.

Yeah. I'm not sure its the usual bad, but yesterday it was as bad as ever. I'm not even sure about the shot selection on many occasions.
The slice forhands were just "hit me as you like it"

I think Stan is not focussed right now. It shows in his matches the way he keeps getting some brilliant winners and then some awful errors. 

Just waiting for the season to get over. He is not someone who can keep doing well throughout the year.

Tenez wrote:the court is really slow...it's comical.

Are you watching on tv/monitor? I think the camera angle also makes it look slow.

But maybe the surface too is.

Tenez wrote:Murray is going to beat Nadal convincingly....I feel.

I just got to watch that and already in 2010.....Murray giving Nadal some tough lessons.

Not sure about convincingly, but yeah he looks in much better form.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

Tenez wrote:Stan slices (BH and FH) are awful. I am not sure whether this is due to his extreme grip. but they bounce his racquet way to high.

Yeah. I'm not sure its the usual bad, but yesterday it was as bad as ever. I'm not even sure about the shot selection on many occasions.
The slice forhands were just "hit me as you like it"

I think Stan is not focussed right now. It shows in his matches the way he keeps getting some brilliant winners and then some awful errors. 

Just waiting for the season to get over. He is not someone who can keep doing well throughout the year.

I noticed his poor slice last time when they played in Paris. despite winning he was forced to do lots of running because the slice exposed him.

I agree he did not seem too bothered yesterday. I am not sure he was moving as well he can.

So Nadal probably the favourite with Murray to advance to SF? Who'd have thought? Very disappointing from Wawrinka, he just kept feeding Nadal balls that asked to get put away. Hard to judge Nadal after the Wawrinka-match, we will know more on wednesday. Wawrinka's defense not good enough and his offense too inconsistent to do real damage.

Surface looks like a joke and produces one-sided matches just like last year. Maybe they finally learn that last year wasn't just a one-off, but what's to be expected regularly on that stuff.

Murray will be convincingly beat probably by both other likely SFists though and Nadal by Djokovic. He needs to win the group to have any chance for the final (and get beat there).

I had Nadal down for a SF, but I also don't believe Djokovic is a nailed on certainty to win it like everyone else.

Greetings from O2.
Not as packed as on Sunday for some reason.

noleisthebest wrote:Greetings from O2.
Not as packed as on Sunday for some reason.

Maybe Djokovic Nishikori just had that X factor for the crowd.

ALLEZ ROGER

noleisthebest wrote:Greetings from O2.
Not as packed as on Sunday for some reason.

You r bloody lucky!

Difficult. I guess you don't want either to lose.

is it showing on the beeb?

no it;s not.
I believe for the first time, Djoko is going to lead the H2H this eve! he would have had to wait until Fed is 34 to achieve that feat.

I predict 64 63 for Djoko.

still beautiful to watch Federer.....but Djoko getting to every ball.

Fed serving and striking the ball beautifully. Really beautifully.
Nole nervous.

Tenez wrote:
You r bloody lucky!
Difficult. I guess you don't want either to lose.

No, just organised.

Paul.....look at Djoko's returning....his strength is clearly not his reflexes..but his ability to move his body like you and I can move our arm.

he is so quick on the ball.