Rafa Nadal: Done Or Not?

Is he done is he not?

Is he clean now or everyone else caught up with fitness?

Is the threat of 25 sec rule unsettling his mind and undermining his confidence?

How do you explain his losses?

We know he is not injured.
We know he desperately wants to play and win.
Surely, he has not aged at 29!

So what is it that is making him look vulnerable all of a sudden?

My take is that he know the game has changed. Other players are able to last longer. Stan, Fog, Murray...
25 seconds rule is there in the back of his mind.
He got rid of Bernardes, but times are changing, people want to watch once in a life time beautiful tennis Fed is playing and not much time is left there.

He had his favourable period when everything slowed down.

TDs must have realised in 2-3 years tennis popularity will drop drastically with no fresh faces.

The much hyped new golden boy  Dimi, hope of sponsors to blew it!

Young teens simply can't cope physically.

It's time for level playing field. (about time I say!)

This is what Nadal said after his loss to Fognini:

“I am playing with little bit less mistakes than before. I have better feelings on the ball. Now remain to have again the speed, that extra speed on the ball, on the winner.”

So clearly, knowing he has to speed his act he is trying to play closer to baseline and is finding it tough. There is no other alternative.

The days of 4m behind the baseline winning are over.

He has less time to load the ball with that deadly spin. Others are hitting the ball back harder than ever.

Will he be able to adjust?
I am not so sure...

What do you think?



PS

Everyone V2 warmly welcome to join this discussion. Really!

1. Lack of innovation. He can't keep playing the same game over and over and think it will get him the wins forever. It never happens.

2. Lack of confidence.
3. No aura of invincibility any more, not even on clay. He won hamburg but he could have easily lost it too. The Umpires/TDs did their best to keep him for next year. 
4. Opponents know what Nadal likes to  play. He feeds on players trying to out-hit him. They now chose to rally with him and wait for absolute the right chance. 

5. They know nadal will not be able to great shots against them, he doesn't have many.A lot of his balls are very short.  He gives a high loopy deep ball that may be difficult to hit but not that can trouble you, expecially for double handers.

He's done.  I long predicted that his decline would be swift because that extra few mph and stamina is his main weapon.  Age has completely robbed him of it and now he looks like the one-trick pony he is.  The confidence from losing more has also added to the problem and now he looks like a desperate moonballer.  All his shots have no depth anymore and he is knocked out at the first sniff of a top player.  Can he win another Slam?  Yeah, the stars could align for him and he'll be tough at The FO next year, but that's about all he can look forward to.

I must say, the delusion over at 606v2 has had me in stitches.  The Nadal fans are lashing out and hoping against hope, but reality is starting to set in.  He isn't as good as Federer and never was.  He is just a very good defensive player who relies on the current conditions and running down every ball.  It's tough, but they'll have to accept that there is no coming back from being an older player on tour - and he has no plan B or the talent of Federer to fall back on.

It will be equally swift for Djokovic and Murray.

So nitb, you admit that he isn't 'muscling the ball as hard as ever', yet you seem to say that that isn't the case now.

For me, he's either clean or not using nearly as good gear. Simple.

luvsports! wrote:So nitb, you admit that he isn't 'muscling the ball as hard as ever', yet you seem to say that that isn't the case now.

For me, he's either clean or not using nearly as good gear. Simple.

Clean? If was was using it before, why would he stop now... Dopers don't stop it. The success it brought to them is additive, more addictive than anything.

Dope can only help so much for so long. I don't think it can work forever, no matter what magic potion is tried.

Going by what Tenez's source at the afld said.
Sponsors threatening to drop and expose him after failing drugs test after FO final '14.

Drop in stamina, power, depth and confidence. He's done nothing really since FO final right? Compared to what he used to do. 
I refuse to accept the field have caught up with him and he still continues to dope. Not buying it.

luvsports! wrote:So nitb, you admit that he isn't 'muscling the ball as hard as ever', yet you seem to say that that isn't the case now.

For me, he's either clean or not using nearly as good gear. Simple.

He is muscling it the same, the level against Nole in RG was scary.
But when he lays closer to baseline he doesn't have enough time for the full lifting swing.

He does sometimes when he creates time by moving the opponent wide, but not at will like he used to when he wad constantly 4m behind the baseline.

Others have also improved, all of them.
Look how hard Murray is now hitting the ball when he wants to.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:1. Lack of innovation. He can't keep playing the same game over and over and think it will get him the wins forever. It never happens.

2. Lack of confidence.
3. No aura of invincibility any more, not even on clay. He won hamburg but he could have easily lost it too. The Umpires/TDs did their best to keep him for next year. 
4. Opponents know what Nadal likes to  play. He feeds on players trying to out-hit him. They now chose to rally with him and wait for absolute the right chance. 

5. They know nadal will not be able to great shots against them, he doesn't have many.A lot of his balls are very short.  He gives a high loopy deep ball that may be difficult to hit but not that can trouble you, expecially for double handers.

Yes, and that means other players have caught up.

It's time to see if he can adapt.

Nothing stopping him serving and volleying like Fed

luvsports! wrote:Drop in stamina, power, depth and confidence. He's done nothing really since FO final right? Compared to what he used to do. 
I refuse to accept the field have caught up with him and he still continues to dope. Not buying it.

Why? Have you never heard of field catching up? Even someone like Fed had to face it, why not Nadal. Fed's own generation of player were not able to touch him. But Nadal came in and was beating him. He totally borught out Fed's weakness, which also used by Djokovic and Murray to beat him.  

Every top player will get caught up if he keeps playing same for long enough time no matter what game they play. And Nadal's game is quite simple to understand.

I'm no expert in doping science, but I think beyond a certain age, those magic drops stop working. Especially if someone has been using it for a long time.

luvsports! wrote:Going by what Tenez's source at the afld said.
Sponsors threatening to drop and expose him after failing drugs test after FO final '14.

Yes but I doubt that it is the sponsors hands.

I certainly agree that he doesn't whip the ball as hard (at least in that USO) and that can be down to the fact he has less time to inject that pace. However I thought his footwork was pretty good here.

I think regardless his game is obsolete....though a very spiny will always be hard to handle. We coudl see clearly v Fog that there was no spin in it and that Fog had no problem timing it....whihc is very different from the past (certainly 2013)...It seems to tire quicker as well.

Rafa says he is physically fine. But as I said, he tires quicker, a lot quicker. He can[t outlast people anymore. He was so far ahead in this and only Djoko could get close to him.
Look at the FO open final '14. Compare him to FO qf vs Djoko '15. It's a different person. No way has he declined that much in a year from staying on drugs. 

He was spent after 2 sets vs djoko (a djoko a year older than the one he couldn't match physically). Not for me.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

luvsports! wrote:Drop in stamina, power, depth and confidence. He's done nothing really since FO final right? Compared to what he used to do. 
I refuse to accept the field have caught up with him and he still continues to dope. Not buying it.

Why? Have you never heard of field catching up? Even someone like Fed had to face it, why not Nadal. Fed's own generation of player were not able to touch him. But Nadal came in and was beating him. He totally borught out Fed's weakness, which also used by Djokovic and Murray to beat him.  

I completely disagree with that.  Murray has never had much luck against Federer in the slams... even an aging Federer.  Djokovic and Nadal could do nothing against Federer 2004-07 (only Nadal could on clay), and he still fared well up until 2009.  It was age that messed Federer up,  and it's age that has messed Nadal up.  There is no mystery here.  Most tennis players are at their winning peak from 21-27.  After that, it's downhill fast.  Very few win slams into their 30s.

Why is there a big question being asked?  No-one has "caught up" to Nadal or Federer.  It's simply that Nadal can no longer chase balls down through age, and Federer is making far more errors than he used to and his serve is far more inconsistent AND he has lost a step.

The same will happen to Djok and every other human.

See my point above FK.

luvsports! wrote:Rafa says he is physically fine. But as I said, he tires quicker, a lot quicker. He can[t outlast people anymore. He was so far ahead in this and only Djoko could get close to him.
Look at the FO open final '14. Compare him to FO qf vs Djoko '15. It's a different person. No way has he declined that much in a year from staying on drugs. 

He was spent after 2 sets vs djoko (a djoko a year older than the one he couldn't match physically). Not for me.

I think it was completely gone physically in FO14 but held his nerves better. Djoko woudl have run away with the 5th set. The difference is that Djoko plays much better and was able to run Rafa down as Rafa was clearly lacking confidence in his shots...and despite that Djoko made a complete mess of that first set (FO15).

Not everything is as clear cut.

I'm dogmatic but not pugnacious. Ergo i am convinced i am right

I am not convinced I am right....I am not convinced you are either.

luvsports! wrote:See my point above FK.

Decline has rapid onset for some players, especially ones as limited and fragile as Nadal (a guy who needs bottles placed properly to be confident).  2013 was his last roll of the dice and he was already showing effects of wear.  Now it's chronic.  All players age, and nearly all players go worse with age.  There's nothing unprecedented about what's happening to Nadal.  McEnroe was another who suddenly stopped winning because of age (albeit physical decline came earlier to him).

There isn't anything spooky or underhanded going on.  Just Nadal having a huge lack of confidence caused by his lack of fitness / power / speed, caused by his age.

FedererKing wrote:

luvsports! wrote:See my point above FK.

Decline has rapid onset for some players, especially ones as limited and fragile as Nadal (a guy who needs bottles placed properly to be confident).  2013 was his last roll of the dice and he was already showing effects of wear.  Now it's chronic.  All players age, and nearly all players go worse with age.  There's nothing unprecedented about what's happening to Nadal.  McEnroe was another who suddenly stopped winning because of age (albeit physical decline came earlier to him).

There isn't anything spooky or underhanded going on.  Just Nadal having a huge lack of confidence caused by his lack of fitness / power / speed, caused by his age.

Go and tell that to Fognini now...it will give him a boost in his match v Lopez.

Don;t agree FK re McEnroe. No way was he too old at 25 to stop winning majors. As Tenez said, power hitters and technology overtook his touch game.

luvsports! wrote:Don;t agree FK re McEnroe. No way was he too old at 25 to stop winning majors. As Tenez said, power hitters and technology overtook his touch game.

That doesn't explain how he stopped winning that fast. He was certainly a step slower and his confidence also vanished because of it.  Certainly with Nadal, age is the main, if not only, reason.

Shame Fog lost so tamely. Lopez played well but Fog had clearly not recovered fully.

Tenez wrote:Shame Fog lost so tamely. Lopez played well but Fog had clearly not recovered fully.

Yes, I couldn't believe the score...
Not fair!

Does anyone have any thoughts on Nadal's quote in the OP?

The way I see it, he is trying to learn to take the ball early...by his standards.

Hence the "mistakes" he is mentioning.

I am really curious to see if he can do it.

He'll be killing himself practising in the off-season and probably views the rest of 2015 as a ranking keeping/improving exercise.

But what is the best case scenario even if he succeeds? To play la more aggressive version of Murray?

AO 2016 will be the one to watch.
It's slow and will be perfect for him.

Nadal still has the potential to do very well. he has the power (or some of it), the footwork and clearly stamina as he managed to run quite a bit for 5 sets. However he can't play to close to the baseline cause then he is going to make more mistakes, have his confidence down and that will only help his opponent.

He just has to hit deeper or closer to the lines. This is what forces his opponent to run the extra steps and play unbalanced.

It could come back with confidence...though I doubt he will be to play well 7 matches in a forthnight. He cannot get away nowadays like he did in the past with shrt balls. He is going to be punished and forced to move around the court.

Tenez wrote:Nadal still has the potential to do very well. he has the power (or some of it), the footwork and clearly stamina as he managed to run quite a bit for 5 sets. However he can't play to close to the baseline cause then he is going to make more mistakes, have his confidence down and that will only help his opponent.

He just has to hit deeper or closer to the lines. This is what forces his opponent to run the extra steps and play unbalanced.

It could come back with confidence...though I doubt he will be to play well 7 matches in a forthnight. He cannot get away nowadays like he did in the past with shrt balls. He is going to be punished and forced to move around the court.

Aaah...that's a comforting thought.

I wonder how much of what he says is just to keep the sponsors happy and/or how much he really believes in what he can achieve with his hard work/sweat.

Even if he is deluded, the repeat of 2015 will soon deplete his optimism. At least his H2Hs are safe

Hey Kim-jo,

what are your thoughts on this?

Can you get spme of Rafa fans from v2 over here.
Tell them we don't eat people!

Is Wooffie there under a different name?

noleisthebest wrote:Can you get spme of Rafa fans from v2 over here.
Tell them we don't eat people!

Is Wooffie there under a different  name?

Woofie isn't back on v2. 

There are Nadal fans on there, but I'm not sure they'll enjoy this forum too much.

FedererKing wrote:

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

luvsports! wrote:Drop in stamina, power, depth and confidence. He's done nothing really since FO final right? Compared to what he used to do. 
I refuse to accept the field have caught up with him and he still continues to dope. Not buying it.

Why? Have you never heard of field catching up? Even someone like Fed had to face it, why not Nadal. Fed's own generation of player were not able to touch him. But Nadal came in and was beating him. He totally borught out Fed's weakness, which also used by Djokovic and Murray to beat him.  

I completely disagree with that.  Murray has never had much luck against Federer in the slams... even an aging Federer.  Djokovic and Nadal could do nothing against Federer 2004-07 (only Nadal could on clay), and he still fared well up until 2009.  It was age that messed Federer up,  and it's age that has messed Nadal up.  There is no mystery here.  Most tennis players are at their winning peak from 21-27.  After that, it's downhill fast.  Very few win slams into their 30s.

Why is there a big question being asked?  No-one has "caught up" to Nadal or Federer.  It's simply that Nadal can no longer chase balls down through age, and Federer is making far more errors than he used to and his serve is far more inconsistent AND he has lost a step.

The same will happen to Djok and every other human.

Well, you and ls are entitled to your opinion and fair on your argument. But I honestly think that players do get caught up with time by their peers.

Fed serve becoming less effective has also got to do with the fact that Djokovic/Murray/Nishikori/Nadal are able to read his serves much better than Roddick/Nalby/Ljubi/Hewitt etc.

The new players are able to guess a lot of Fed's shots and are able to retrieve a lot of ball which were clear winners against Fed's own generation of players. But not with Djokovic/Murray; at least a lot of shots will be guessed right in terms of direction. See wimbledon finals. Fed so much struggles on his own serve, Djoko read it too well. He wasn't reading those so well earlier.

Djokovic in 2006 said Nadal is beatable and with time he caught up so much upon him. Players do get caught up.

Raiders. I completely agree with the catching up in general happens all the time but just in this instance I don't think Nadal has been caught up and maintained his previous grand slam winning level.

I just see a big drop in his entire game and that, imo, is down to drugs.
Hope that clears it up.

His issue is the unforced errors and his forehand becoming less reliable, not stamina or power. 
His fifth set against Fognini was the best set he played all tournament, stamina was just not an issue.

I think it's just an example of people with fixed pre-held views ignoring any current evidence and trying to fit the situation to already back up what they already thought.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:The new players are able to guess a lot of Fed's shots and are able to retrieve a lot of ball which were clear winners against Fed's own generation of players. But not with Djokovic/Murray; at least a lot of shots will be guessed right in terms of direction. See wimbledon finals. Fed so much struggles on his own serve, Djoko read it too well. He wasn't reading those so well earlier.

Djokovic in 2006 said Nadal is beatable and with time he caught up so much upon him. Players do get caught up.

I think you are underestimating the court conds slowing down since 2006/7 and also the fact that the new generation was spinning the ball more and that forced Federer to spin his shots too to minimise UEs...which of course made his shots more retrievable. It's not the guess/anticipation that sorted Federer....cause he has the choice first to anticipate where his opponent are anticipating.

In fact from what I saw this week and in Cincy, I am convinced that none of those guys woudl have caught up had conds stayed fast....and had Fed adopted a bigger frame earlier. If anything he is destroying the field faster than ever. The difference is that of course he tires quicker...essentially cause he certainly does not seem to have caught up with "fitness technology".

Kim Jong-Un wrote:His issue is the unforced errors and his forehand becoming less reliable, not stamina or power. 
His fifth set against Fognini was the best set he played all tournament, stamina was just not an issue.

You could see that Fog had absolutely 0 problem timing Nadal's ball. He takes it early effortlessly and redirected it precisely where he wanted. That, as often v Nadal, is what made Fog look better than what he is. Now if Nadal had sent his usual spinny bombs like it did in that AO 2012 (v Fed for instance), we woudl have had a very different result. I have not seen the match entirely, but I bet there was more spin in the beginning than at the end..but also the fast conds did not help Nadal with his injection of spin.

Kim Jong-Un wrote:His issue is the unforced errors and his forehand becoming less reliable, not stamina or power. 
His fifth set against Fognini was the best set he played all tournament, stamina was just not an issue.

So you take one example and taht is it?
Are you not doing the same that you are accusing of me?
I'm going by what I saw vs Djoko @FO for stamina in endurance but generally rafa's shot lack depth and power which allows someone like Fognini to dictate and play amazing. Rafa in the past wouldn't allow that to happen. That to me is down to being more natty.

To pigeon hole me on that one issue is disingenuous as in that encompassing topic is a multi-faceted knock on effect.

Tenez wrote:

Kim Jong-Un wrote:His issue is the unforced errors and his forehand becoming less reliable, not stamina or power. 
His fifth set against Fognini was the best set he played all tournament, stamina was just not an issue.

You could see that Fog had absolutely 0 problem timing Nadal's ball. He takes it early effortlessly and redirected it precisely where he wanted. That, as often v Nadal,  is what made Fog look better than what he is. Now if Nadal had sent his usual spinny bombs like it did in that AO 2012 (v Fed for instance), we woudl have had a very different result. I have not seen the match entirely, but I bet there was more spin in the beginning than at the end..but also the fast conds did not help Nadal with his injection of spin.  

The difference is as striking at Nadal v Fed WTF11 and 2 months later AO12. That is why I don't believe in ageing yet. Drug, pace of court, no more 35s, confidence, opposition catching up etc...there are too many factors and without seeing a player from close it's is impossible to get an idea on TV. What I saw however is that the deadly spin was not there...in this last set.

I don't think Nadal ran out of energy in the FO 2015 QF, more like he just gave up hope of winning when 2 sets down. 
When looking at his stamina, I suppose looking at 5 set matches is a good start, and in both 5 setters he's played this year- for me he's played better in the fifth set than any other set. Same against Smyczek and Fognini.

But as people have said T, that rule was in place in 2013 and Rafa swept up.

Not only that, he's taking longer in between points now than he was in 2013, I'm almost certain of it.

luvsports! wrote:But as people have said T, that rule was in place in 2013 and Rafa swept up.

The thing is the effect of application of that rule would essentially be seen in 4 and 5 setters....and Nadal had very few of those and also from memory the rule was not very applied to Nadal..I still remember him getting warning but still getting away with it. But more importantly, Nadal was over aggressive getting a lot of cheap easy points and certainly Djoko was affected by 35s even more it seemed.

Kim Jong-Un wrote:Not only that, he's taking longer in between points now than he was in 2013, I'm almost certain of it.

That's not true.....except maybe in the USO as they are doing their best to help him. nadal made a very clear point this year about not having Bernardes cause the rule is actually being much more implemented than in 2013.

Kim Jong-Un wrote:I don't think Nadal ran out of energy in the FO 2015 QF, more like he just gave up hope of winning when 2 sets down. 
When looking at his stamina, I suppose looking at 5 set matches is a good start, and in both 5 setters he's played this year- for me he's played better in the fifth set than any other set. Same against Smyczek and Fognini.

You think Nadal looks as physically strong and fit as the FO last year?
If he gave up hope, then he isn't very mentally strong there is he? Where is that fabled mental strength?
I've just rewatched long highlights and Nadal looks gassed by the third set. 
A drop in power and depth are down to..... natty?

Kim Jong-Un wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:Can you get spme of Rafa fans from v2 over here.
Tell them we don't eat people!

Is Wooffie there under a different  name?

Woofie isn't back on v2. 

There are Nadal fans on there, but I'm not sure they'll enjoy this forum too much.

That's a shame...and I made a special effort to write "Rafa" in the title of the thread just for them...do you know how hard it was for me to do that?

They need to follow their hero and move forward, take the ball early..."try their best" not hide behind Mod protection...

Rafa would be disappointed by such followers

Tenez wrote:

luvsports! wrote:But as people have said T, that rule was in place in 2013 and Rafa swept up.

The thing is the effect of application of that rule would essentially be seen in 4 and 5 setters....and Nadal had very few of those and also from memory the rule was not very applied to Nadal..I still remember him getting warning but still getting away with it.  But more importantly, Nadal was over aggressive getting a lot of cheap easy points and certainly Djoko was affected by 35s even more it seemed.

He had a 5 setter against Djokovic in the FO semi-final, and played his best tennis of the match in the epic fifth set.

luvsports! wrote:

Kim Jong-Un wrote:I don't think Nadal ran out of energy in the FO 2015 QF, more like he just gave up hope of winning when 2 sets down. 
When looking at his stamina, I suppose looking at 5 set matches is a good start, and in both 5 setters he's played this year- for me he's played better in the fifth set than any other set. Same against Smyczek and Fognini.

You think Nadal looks as physically strong and fit as the FO last year?
If he gave up hope, then he isn't very mentally strong there is he? Where is that fabled mental strength?
I've just rewatched long highlights and Nadal looks gassed by the third set. 
A drop in power and depth are down to..... natty?

He played badly in the last set like he did in the first 4 games, I honestly don't think it had anything to do with stamina; honestly if he could play well in the fifth set against Fognini I doubt he'd have run out of energy after 2 sets against Djokovic.

luvsports! wrote:

Kim Jong-Un wrote:I don't think Nadal ran out of energy in the FO 2015 QF, more like he just gave up hope of winning when 2 sets down. 
When looking at his stamina, I suppose looking at 5 set matches is a good start, and in both 5 setters he's played this year- for me he's played better in the fifth set than any other set. Same against Smyczek and Fognini.

You think Nadal looks as physically strong and fit as the FO last year?
If he gave up hope, then he isn't very mentally strong there is he? Where is that fabled mental strength?
I've just rewatched long highlights and Nadal looks gassed by the third set. 
A drop in power and depth are down to..... natty?

There is no way he can play without "natty", did you see what Herbert say before his first ATP final?
Herbert who couldn't get out of bed and move after a few back to back 3 setters against average "natty" users?

We need a full natty expert to throw some light here in the 50 shades of "natty".

Clearly most are on it, but not all hpshow,the same results.
Some "natty" is better/more expensive than others...

noleisthebest wrote:

Kim Jong-Un wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:Can you get spme of Rafa fans from v2 over here.
Tell them we don't eat people!

Is Wooffie there under a different  name?

Woofie isn't back on v2. 

There are Nadal fans on there, but I'm not sure they'll enjoy this forum too much.

That's a shame...and I made a special effort to write "Rafa" in the title of the thread just for them...do you know how hard it was for me to do that?

They need to follow their hero and move forward, take the ball early..."try their best" not hide behind Mod protection...

Rafa would be disappointed by such followers

Surely you have to be realistic and see that most Nadal fans would not want to join this forum. If there was a forum where most people hated Federer, do you think Federer fans would want to join ?

Djokovic-Nadal matches are v gruelling. 
The first set was well over an hour. The tennis is different.

I cannot believe you don't see the drop in power. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmjRRhD4CRI
Watch this. The difference between Rafa's shots and Novak's are huge. 
Nadal could outhit Novak in FO '14. Now he is lobotomised in that department.

noleisthebest wrote:

luvsports! wrote:

Kim Jong-Un wrote:I don't think Nadal ran out of energy in the FO 2015 QF, more like he just gave up hope of winning when 2 sets down. 
When looking at his stamina, I suppose looking at 5 set matches is a good start, and in both 5 setters he's played this year- for me he's played better in the fifth set than any other set. Same against Smyczek and Fognini.

You think Nadal looks as physically strong and fit as the FO last year?
If he gave up hope, then he isn't very mentally strong there is he? Where is that fabled mental strength?
I've just rewatched long highlights and Nadal looks gassed by the third set. 
A drop in power and depth are down to..... natty?

There is no way he can play without "natty", did you see what Herbert say before his first ATP final?
Herbert who couldn't get out of bed and move after a few  back to back 3 setters against average "natty" users?

We need a full natty expert to throw some light here in the 50 shades of "natty".

Clearly most are on it, but not all hpshow,the same results.
Some "natty" is better/more expensive than others...

Natty means being clean btw  .

luvsports! wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:
There is no way he can play without "natty", did you see what Herbert say before his first ATP final?
Herbert who couldn't get out of bed and move after a few  back to back 3 setters against average "natty" users?

We need a full natty expert to throw some light here in the 50 shades of "natty".

Clearly most are on it, but not all hpshow,the same results.
Some "natty" is better/more expensive than others...

Natty means being clean btw  .

You and your "lingo"... ...we need a full dictionary and an interpreter here!

So what's  the word for anti-natty?