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Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

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Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by luvsports! on Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:00 am

OUT Tommy Paul (18) vs Seppi - Current FO junior champ on home turf. Chance of upset? Unlikely. Djoko r3 lurking. 

OUT Ymer (19) vs Schwartzman (23) - 4/4 this year is the swede for qualifying for a major. Would play the winner of Coric/Rafa.

The big one: OUT Coric (18) vs Nadal. Beaten him before.... 

OUT Pouille (21) vs DOnskoy - The Frenchy is quietly rising up the rankings but likely to meet Cilic in r2.

Sock (22) vs Estrella Burgos - Been off the boil since the FO. But has a decent draw until he meets Stan in round of 32.

OUT Tiafoe (17) u18 US champ vs Troicki - the Serb is having a shocker post Wimby and could make r3 where he would face SImon. 

OUT Kyrgios (20) vs Murray - Handled quite comfortably in their 3 meetings so far, not lost a set. If he does win he could deffo make the qf's. 

OUT Rublev (17) vs KA - KA could be tired from his WInston Salem exploits but could be in with a shot as KA hasn't done well that well at Flushing Meadows. Same eighth as Murray, Thiem maybe in r3.

Thiem (21) vs Gimeno Traver - defending r4 from last year, not won a match on hard since his clay court title winning run. r3 anderson.

Nishioka (19) vs Mathieu - beat Edmond in 3 to qualify. Rather weaponless and not helped at 5'7 but in with a chance of r3 with Bellucci as the seeded round 2 player. Murray r3. 

OUT Kokk (19) vs Gasquet  - Making progress this year with good hard fought wins. V tough draw against a guy in good form and who he beat in 2 in Montreal. If he wins 4th is deffo on vs Banana berd brain.

Vesely (22) vs Lorenzi - V winnable opener, Ivo in r2 and Isner r3. Feds r4. Very tough for a guy who hasn't done much since winning Auckland at the very start of the year. 

OUT Zverev (18) vs Kohli - Tough opener (routined by him on clay this year) but in decent nick. Fed waiting in r3. 

Chung (19) vs dUCKworth - Good chance of making it to r2 for the first time but will hit slam stan in r2. 

I think Tiafoe could maybe get a shock, Zverev maybe. Otherwise I think none will make it to r4 unfortunately. 
Thoughts?


Last edited by luvsports! on Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:23 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by Tenez on Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:17 am

Do we know besides Coric who are the 17yo who qualified for a slam...since Djoko?

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by ... on Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:20 am

Good thread LS, maybe just add Herbert.

It's interesting to see how much  every extra year on tour means.

The oldest - Thiem and Sock have the best chance.

Chung is already a decent competitior, he could go to R2.

Somehow Vesely does not feel right in that group for me...not sure why.

Nishioka - PHM will be interesting.

I was a bit disappointed with Pouille after seeing him live.
He has good potential but needs to work very hard if he wants results, mainly on his footwork.

Tifoe will beat Troicki, or shall I say Troicki will lose. First round, 4th time in a row.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by Tenez on Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:33 am

herbert is 24!!!

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by ... on Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:38 am

Oh! He looks younger than half of them in this list...

I was just going to post what he said after beating Johnson...very telling and interesting:

''I cannot believe it, really,'' Herbert said. ''The last three days, it's been really tough to wake up, really tough to practice, and really tough to go on the court. I'm really tired.
'I'm taking every day step by step, point by point, and trying not to think. Maybe that's why I'm capable of being there (in the final).''



Really tired after only 3 back to back best of three matches against none of the top players...

What does that tell us?

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by Tenez on Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:43 am

This is a great ranking to follow young players.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/media/rankings-and-stats


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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by Tenez on Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:45 am

noleisthebest wrote:Really tired after only 3 back to back best of three matches against none of the top players...

What does that tell us?
It tells us a lot!

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by Tenez on Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:50 am

Coric is the one really standing out here....sadly.

Rubev has a year to try to as well or better....though I don;t expect them to have the same progressing curve.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by gallery play on Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:03 am

A. Zverev had some very good results this summer, but he has a tough draw..

Traditionally the American players tend to do better on homesoil but that was before they slowed FM down. Really odd as most of the current US players would do better on faster courts.
Sock played about every pre us open tournament he could but had only one notable win.
All in all i can't see one of the youngsters win more than 2/3 matches

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by gallery play on Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:05 am

Tenez wrote:Coric is the one really standing out here....sadly.

Rubev has a year to try to as well or better....though I don;t expect them to have the same progressing curve.  
can you see him beating Nadal?

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by Tenez on Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:52 am

gallery play wrote:
Tenez wrote:Coric is the one really standing out here....sadly.

Rubev has a year to try to as well or better....though I don;t expect them to have the same progressing curve.  
can you see him beating Nadal?

I have not seen Coric play much. I doubt he has the stamina and/or weapons to trouble Nadal at this stage. Nadal has been a real unknown entity though recently.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by Tenez on Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:57 am

gallery play wrote:A. Zverev had some very good results this summer, but he has a tough draw..

Traditionally the American players tend to do better on homesoil but that was before they slowed FM down. Really odd as most of the current US players would do better on faster courts.
True but I think the USO was more concern about the business end of the tournament and they know not many of their players would do well even if they speed up the court, whereas having Nadal in finals always guarantees a good (feminine) crowd.

Sock played about every pre us open tournament he could but had only one notable win.
All in all i can't see one of the youngsters win more than 2/3 matches
Same here, one cannot achieve much before being 23/24 nowadays.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by gallery play on Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:18 am

tenez wrote:whereas having Nadal in finals always guarantees a good (feminine) crowd.
Yeah, after James Blake the ladies had to choose between Sam Querry and Nadal...who can blame 'm? Winking

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by Tenez on Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:06 pm

gallery play wrote:
tenez wrote:whereas having Nadal in finals always guarantees a good (feminine) crowd.
Yeah, after James Blake the ladies had to choose between Sam Querry and Nadal...who can blame 'm? Winking
yep! Considering that women are generally less patriotic than men....Querry was not responding to their demand! Winking

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by ... on Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:20 pm

Tenez wrote:This is a great ranking to follow young players.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/media/rankings-and-stats


Yes, an excellent link, thanks.

I watched a clip of Rubi when he was 14, amazing power off the ground despite not taking the ball early.
His BH is lethal.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gWKYVJsyjlY

I hope he fulfills  his potential.

I've given him a nickname: Little Dragon.  Magic

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by Tenez on Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:21 pm

Little Dragon is playing Anderson. he won't get passed him. Younger players do not cope well with fast serves generally. It takes a lot of exposure to be able to return a serve like KA's or extreme fitness by standing further back.

But that will be a good lesson.


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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by Tenez on Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:59 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw_gMUdm40Q

This is a great clip to watch his current level. He has a very Russian game. A bit a la Safin, Kafel and Davydenko. Aggressive tennis from the baseline...but quite one dimensional. But it is the typical game that will kill the road runners. However he may find harder to play those getting to the net, varying a bit.....what Ram does here in this match.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by ... on Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:20 pm

Yes...he is Russian through and through.
A bit of fire, passion, craziness, gloominess, pride...with the ever present sword of deep despair hanging over like a shadow.

Part of him is still a tender child looking at his mother with his big upset eyes when things are  not going well, and the other part is this heroic tsar fearlessly leading his army into victory on his horse.

Yes, there is no subtle, smooth guile in his tennis...which is why I called him Dragon, because when he plays his cheeks are puffing with air as he flies around the court in his attacking sorties, wielding his laser forehands and backhands deep into corners.

And Little because he really is suffering while doing it...his wings are not strong enough and he knows it.
Oh, if only he could make them grow quicker!

You can see I am very fond of him.

There is something inherently very natural in his shots, the confidence and satisfaction with which he strikes the ball.

And he is brave. That's what I like most.

As for Anderson...I saw a bit of him and Herbert today, Herbert was returning his serves
relatively well, but was very creaky and stiff.
He actually was a better player.

So Rubi may have a chance. A Little one smiley

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by Tenez on Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:39 pm

Very good summary N. I like the ..Passion ..and ....ever present sword of despair hanging over like a shadow. That's very Russian indeed.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by Tenez on Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:51 pm

Great Musicians came one after the other (Vivaldi, Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert....).

Maybe we will have other Federers soon. Though looking at those musicians (birth date) Vivaldi to Bach just 7 or 8 years, Bach to Mozart 70 years?, Mozart to Beethoven (20 years) Beethoven to Schubert 30.....

So on average we could have another genius every 30 years. roughly the difference between Mc and Fed.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by ... on Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:34 pm

Interesting and hopeful.
We haven't had a musical genius for a long time, though.
Looks like the tap dried out.

Stars, sky, trees are still the same but no more Beethovens and Shuberts.


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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by gallery play on Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:09 am

Yeah, this is why i'm not fully agreeing on the view "every generation is better than the one before". Some talents remain unique.

The Musicians are a great example. I'm not an expert of classical music but the common perception is that the genius of those composers is unprecedented.
You can say the same about the pop music of 65-70: The Beatles, The Stones, the Who, The Kinks, The Beach boys, Jimi Hendrix, Led zeppelin ect ect ,all in a period of 5 years!
And what about the genius of Da vinci, Michelangelo, Rafael ect, all from the same period.
It seems they come grouped or at least with overlap...I'm afraid waiting for a new Federer will lead to disappointment.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by ... on Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:47 am

Now that you've mentioned Renaissance, you have opened a big topic...

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by Tenez on Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:50 am

gallery play wrote:Yeah, this is why i'm not fully agreeing on the view "every generation is better than the one before". Some talents remain unique.
.....

I would not typically believe that the newer generation is better than the previous one..... from now on. We can see in the US how the youngsters have not picked up the game and their level at the top has gone down. Though we can still argue whether Isner would not have played "better" than Pete or Harrisson.

However in the past it seems obvious that the circle of professionals taking on the sport was way too small to have a chance to get a few geniuses and if we had, they had little chance to get enough opposition to develop their full potential. Tennis more than requires an opposition. Borg, McEnroe and co woudl not have developed into what they became, had they stayed in their local club and never players international players, same with Federer. They woudl still be amazing players but playing in a small clube and playing against all the club of the world completely transformed them.

That's my principle behind "not as good in the past" cause the number of youngsters taking on tennis went crescendo up to know more or less...and Asia might take on the sport too. But certainly I don;t expect that number of youngsters to increase much or significantly from now. Like in the US it could go down.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by Tenez on Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:52 am

noleisthebest wrote:Now that you've mentioned Renaissance, you have opened a big topic...
I believe it goes by era. It seems for now, our planete is producing scientific and businessmen more than artists.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by ... on Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:58 am

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Now that you've mentioned Renaissance, you have opened a big topic...
I believe it goes by era. It seems for now, our planete is producing scientific and businessmen more than artists.

Yes, but what led to Renaissance?

It is fascinating to look back on history and see it unfold.

Of course, depending on what one believes, the end is either a dead-end or a never-ending, mysterious, winding road.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by ... on Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:23 am

Tenez wrote:

I would not typically believe that the newer generation is better than the previous one..... from now on. We can see in the US how the youngsters have not picked up the game and their level at the top has gone down. Though we can still argue whether Isner would not have played "better" than Pete or Harrisson.

However in the past it seems obvious that the circle of professionals taking on the sport was way too small to have a chance to get a few geniuses and if we had, they had little chance to get enough opposition to develop their full potential. Tennis more than requires an opposition. Borg, McEnroe and co woudl not have developed into what they became, had they stayed in their local club and never players international players, same with Federer. They woudl still be amazing players but playing in a small clube and playing against all the club of the world completely transformed them.

That's my principle behind "not as good in the past" cause the number of youngsters taking on tennis went crescendo up to know more or less...and Asia might take on the sport too. But certainly I don;t expect that number of youngsters to increase much or significantly from now. Like in the US it could go down.

Good point. Iron sharpens iron.

Unfortunately, the bigger the competition pool - the more ruthless the fight for the top and all that comes with it.

When one can succeed without talent, and even worse - when talent is not allowed to succeed, there is not a lot of hope.

But you know my solution to the problem smiley

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by Daniel on Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:51 am

I would say Coric and Kyrgios, but their draws are awful.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by Tenez on Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:14 am

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Now that you've mentioned Renaissance, you have opened a big topic...
I believe it goes by era. It seems for now, our planete is producing scientific and businessmen more than artists.

Yes, but what led to Renaissance?

It is fascinating to look back on history and see it unfold.

Of course, depending on what one believes, the end is either a dead-end or a never-ending, mysterious, winding road.
I am not too sure where you want to go but Christianity was probably at its strongest in the era before Renaissance. Renaissance art was seen as devious in its time.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by ... on Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:34 am

Renaissance was preceded by the Dark Ages which were not given that name for no reason.
Reformation was the crown and culmination of renaissance.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by DECIMA on Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:34 am

Coric.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by ... on Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:37 am

Kim Jong-Un wrote:Coric.
What's your (ideally jinx-free) view on his match with Nadal?

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by DECIMA on Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:42 am

noleisthebest wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:Coric.
What's your (ideally jinx-free) view on his match with Nadal?
Nadal should win in straight sets, I really don't rate Coric. At best he'll be another Ferrer. I think Fognini in R3 and Raonic in R4 could be very very tough matches for Rafa.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by ... on Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:47 am

Do you not rate Coric because you don't see him as a winner or because of his tennis style?

I actually think he has better chances than Fognini or Raonic. It will be an interesting match in more than one way.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by Tenez on Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:53 am

noleisthebest wrote:Renaissance was preceded by the Dark Ages which were not given that name for no reason.
Reformation was the crown and culmination of renaissance.
I have studied the "dark ages" a bit and they were not dark at all in some respects. In fact the "renaissance" is the end of the "vertical knowledge" in the Western world and the beginning of the "horizontal" knowledge which is still expanding today.

But I guess this is for another topic.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by DECIMA on Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:57 am

noleisthebest wrote:Do you not rate Coric because you don't see him as a winner or because of his tennis style?

I actually think he has better chances than Fognini or Raonic. It will be an interesting match in more than one way.
He's very young, so his rate of improvement is unpredictable at this stage. But atm I don't see anything special from him, I think he'll be a player like Ferrer or maybe Simon, not someone winning Slams. 
Fognini and Raonic are definitely bigger threats, if Nadal gets to R3/R4. Nadal's performance itself is very unpredictable, so I can't make either positive or negative predictions with any confidence.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by ... on Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:59 am

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Renaissance was preceded by the Dark Ages which were not given that name for no reason.
Reformation was the crown and culmination of renaissance.
I have studied the "dark ages" a bit and they were not dark at all in some respects. In fact the "renaissance" is the end of the "vertical knowledge" in the Western world and the beginning of the "horizontal" knowledge which is still expanding today.

But I guess this is for another topic.
Very true but again, for a reason.
In a similar way this is what may be happening with tennis now.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by ... on Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:05 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Do you not rate Coric because you don't see him as a winner or because of his tennis style?

I actually think he has better chances than Fognini or Raonic. It will be an interesting match in more than one way.
He's very young, so his rate of improvement is unpredictable at this stage. But atm I don't see anything special from him, I think he'll be a player like Ferrer or maybe Simon, not someone winning Slams. 
Fognini and Raonic are definitely bigger threats, if Nadal gets to R3/R4. Nadal's performance itself is very unpredictable, so I can't make either positive or negative predictions with any confidence.

Yes, he has no weapons, but like Nadal he is an excellent mover.
He is only 18 and clearly has too much muscle for his age.

Give him 2-3 years to mature in stamina and he may become the new Nadal: hitting the ball hard BUT from on, not behind the base-line.

I believe that is what Nadal is trying to achieve now, but with little success.

As for Fognini - he is most dangerous on clay.
Raonic is injured and has never been a problem for Nadal, anyway.


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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by DECIMA on Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:43 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Renaissance was preceded by the Dark Ages which were not given that name for no reason.
Reformation was the crown and culmination of renaissance.
I have studied the "dark ages" a bit and they were not dark at all in some respects. In fact the "renaissance" is the end of the "vertical knowledge" in the Western world and the beginning of the "horizontal" knowledge which is still expanding today.

But I guess this is for another topic.
Very true but again, for a reason.
In a similar way this is what may be happening with tennis now.
Yes, in many ways a lot of the analysis on here is like the 'vertical knowledge' humans gained before the renaissance.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by DECIMA on Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:44 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Do you not rate Coric because you don't see him as a winner or because of his tennis style?

I actually think he has better chances than Fognini or Raonic. It will be an interesting match in more than one way.
He's very young, so his rate of improvement is unpredictable at this stage. But atm I don't see anything special from him, I think he'll be a player like Ferrer or maybe Simon, not someone winning Slams. 
Fognini and Raonic are definitely bigger threats, if Nadal gets to R3/R4. Nadal's performance itself is very unpredictable, so I can't make either positive or negative predictions with any confidence.

Yes, he has no weapons, but like Nadal he is an excellent mover.
He is only 18 and clearly has too much muscle for his age.

Give him 2-3 years to mature in stamina and he may become the new Nadal: hitting the ball hard BUT from on, not behind the base-line.

I believe that is what Nadal is trying to achieve now, but with little success.

As for Fognini - he is most dangerous on clay.
Raonic is injured and has never been a problem for Nadal, anyway.

He is a great mover, and has maturity in the way he plays the game. I haven't seen him much though, tomorrow I'll keep a close eye and learn a lot more about him.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by ... on Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:51 pm

Yes, he is good at keeping the ball in play, but not much else.
He is a funny combination of Djokovic and Nadal.

Picked up the worst of both.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by summerblues on Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:28 pm

Good OP. My guess is Sock or Thiem could go furthest. Kyrgios has a tough draw, but if he somehow managed to win the first round he could go far.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by ... on Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:46 pm

Are you going to USO this year, SB?

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by ... on Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:17 pm

Which online TV station is covering USO?

It says Eurosport but the app/website is useless, unrecognisable from what it looked like during RG.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by Daniel on Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:26 pm

Coric has beaten Nadal in straights before.  It is not a dead cert he will win.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by summerblues on Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:51 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Are you going to USO this year, SB?
Thanks for asking nitb, yes I am going the first Saturday.

I only have grounds pass but at the USO that will get you into any stadium accept Ashe. Ashe typically has only one men's match scheduled in the day session, and it is usually a one-sided encounter between a high seed and a hapless opponent, so over the years I figured it was a waste of money to pay for that.

Looking forward to it - it is my once-a-year live tennis. Hopefully will be good.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by luvsports! on Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:54 pm

Have you been to all the slams SB?
WHat is your favourite and what do you make of the others you have been to>?

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by summerblues on Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:56 pm

No, LS, sadly the USO is the only one I have been to. I would love to go to Wimbledon and Roland Garros and hopefully one day will have a chance. AO is perhaps too far from here and maybe a touch less intriguing due to lesser history.

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by luvsports! on Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:31 pm

What's FM like? 
Big, noisy, brash?

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Re: Which youngster will progress the furthest at the US Open?

Post by ... on Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:09 am

summerblues wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Are you going to USO this year, SB?
Thanks for asking nitb, yes I am going the first Saturday.

I only have grounds pass but at the USO that will get you into any stadium accept Ashe.  Ashe typically has only one men's match scheduled in the day session, and it is usually a one-sided encounter between a high seed and a hapless opponent, so over the years I figured it was a waste of money to pay for that.

Looking forward to it - it is my once-a-year live tennis.  Hopefully will be good.

Sounds great!

Don't forget to write the full report....even the little "unimportant"  details can create an extra atmosphere for us here.

You are lucky you can see all those courts, in Wimbledon, there are three show courts, so not much to see in week 2 in terms of singles tennis.

The queue on first Saturday just for a ground-pass is soul destroying...

Have fun!

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