ATP MASTERS 1000: CINCINNATI - THE FINAL

Tenez wrote:Stan v Milos...what's your take?

I think Stan has a chance if he plays well.....but more likely Rao will win. I feel he is about to enter the top 10 as predicted by ME at the very beginning of the year....and he will be there to stay bar injury.

Very tough to call. If Stan is in good form, than the match is on his racquet. But should be interesting to watch. Raonic tactics seem to be almost exclusively his inside out forehand, and then some more of it.
If Stan starts returning well, than he's got a good chance. I can't for the life of me remember what kind of returner Stan is.

Anyone seen Delpo's match? Anything this fan should worry about ahead of tomorrow's SF

noleisthebest wrote:How are Nadal and Federer in a different league and mindset from Nole?
Is it the NIke bandana or stg else?

Its something else which I am talking about. Perhaps a different to discuss, so we can it till someone stars it. This thread belongs to discuss cincy matches.

Tenez wrote: He did not care pulling out of Toronto last week and I am sure his loss to Chardy is not affecting him much, especially knowing that he won't lose to a Chardy in the USO...unless he really is hampered by an injury.

He did not care about Toronto because he wasn't defending anything there. Still he went and defended what he had from last year. Show me an important tournament like TMS where Murray is defending lot of points ( a final or a win) and he chooses not to play.

Its not the loss of Chardy that will affect him, its just the loss in R3 that will bother him and loosing many points. Has he stopped caring about points and rankings after OG? In my opinion no. Let this OG sink in and let this dust settle down. It won't be much different from what it was.

I don't believe in Murray's injury talks, its too much of 'wolf -cry' for me to believe. And we know what players think about it too.

Nole

Djo wins. 6-3 6-2. Cilic is easy meat for Djo. Too predictable and too limited. I'm not surprised by the scoreline at all.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Its not the loss of Chardy that will affect him, its just the loss in R3 that will bother him and loosing many points.

It's good to disagree in those tiny forums!

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Djo wins. 6-3 6-2. Cilic is easy meat for Djo. Too predictable and too limited. I'm not surprised by the scoreline at all.

The score reveals the lack of mental belief from Cilic more than the difference in aptitude. Cilic could do better.

Tenez wrote:

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Djo wins. 6-3 6-2. Cilic is easy meat for Djo. Too predictable and too limited. I'm not surprised by the scoreline at all.

The score reveals the lack of mental belief from Cilic more than the difference in aptitude. Cilic could do better.

How?

He can be a very good player. He has the shots to hurt but for some reasons he has been very erratic of late.

I know he can be a good player, but Nole, because of his movement is a very difficult match-up for Cilic.
Cilic played better a couple of years ago than now.
He stopped using his light movement forward and is almost always on the baseline which is the last place he should be at. He is no Berdych.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:


Yes Murray trounced Fed in the finals, if you only like to look at the score board. The Fed he was facing was too shaky and moved like a rock. Do you want to say Fed played his top form but Murray produced a spectacle so brilliant it just blew off Fed? Not hardly. I told this before too, I have seen Murray play far better than he did in the Olympics finals and it certainly wasn't in the Olympics semis. Look at Murray now, back to where he always was; a vulnarable top-4 who could be losing early in tournaments to a LL. Is it any different from what the case has been for the last 4 years? Not as I see it. That's why I said having him in the draw isn't much a problem.

Rotla, Murray played perfect match, ceirtainly one of his best. In regard to grass condition there were just few points when Murray failed, but he played agressively when it was important and that is a big change from him. Roger really wanted to come back but he did not get a chance. It was the first time when Murray was not afraid of taking the full risk when it is really mattered and that is difference. If he can repeat it at USO, then he looks pretty challenging for the final. Nobody would want him to play with in semi.

Ranking is not important for him now, but Slam surely is.

Raonic takes the first set. Just saw the last two points. Looked pretty easy, Wawrinka mainly doing the serve blocking and the watching the inside out forehand fly past him in the opposite corner....

trying to connect.....

Raonic just served 141mph.....Something for Fed to look forward to if he gets past Fish tonight ...

Fed will get past Fish...not sure he'll get past Rao. He is finding his stride.

Raonic is pretty level-headed, but he can get nervous if he faces a good returner.

The level of noise on a US tennis court is ridiculous!!! It sounds like a trade fair using a circus to attract customers, while the microphone calls for the badly parked car owner. ...all that while players are playing.

There is some charm in all that, pretty laid-back , opposite of Wimbledon.

Loved the Stan roar at the end of the tie-breaker!
There's nothing Stan likes better than long matches

Does anyone remember Seppi Wawrinka match in Rome this year?

noleisthebest wrote:There is some charm in all that, pretty laid-back , opposite of Wimbledon.

But what are the chance of a player to find the "zone" in those conds and see great tennis? No charm at all from me. This is tennis NITB..not football. Each sport has its public and requirements. Nice to have some variations but the US circus is ridiculous. I went to see the Chicago Bulls live a few years ago...it's ridiculous....it's everything but Basketball.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:There is some charm in all that, pretty laid-back , opposite of Wimbledon.

But what are the chance of a player to find the "zone" in those conds and see great tennis? No charm at all from me. This is tennis NITB..not football. Each sport has its public and requirements. Nice to have some variations but the US circus is ridiculous. I went to see the Chicago Bulls live a few years ago...it's ridiculous....it's everything but Basketball.

It's not that difficult to shout out any noise, at least not for me. Having said that, I can't stand any noise in the crowd when I'm watching a match.

Did Fish retire?
I just heard that useless Yank commentator saying how Wawrinka is going to join his compatriot in the semis

Heard it too but I think he meant "the possibility of joining.."

Raonic wlll have to be very disappointed with this loss.

Yes he had him but he really played too defensive and too far behind the baseline. Stan deserved it cause he played more agressively.

I think Raonic is too "nice" and other players can sense it and go for him.
Stan started throwing his weigh about with the umpire and that could have affected Raonic, Of course, it shouldn't have but I well could have.
His personality does not quite match his tennis style yet.

He is very safe/conservative/timid in his mind.



Stan forehand was dead most of the match and he still managed to turn it around.
I've now seen quite a few of his long matches, and there is some pleasure in watching him roar his way out a bit.

noleisthebest wrote:He is very safe/conservative/timid in his mind.

And thats why he moonballs. In fact he reminded me Ancic today. Built for aggression but after the serve it's all hesitation. I think his physique (curved-in shoulders) actually betrays his character and weakness of his game. A bit like Gasquet had huge talent but physically he was already showing his mental weaknesses.

But I admit it is a bit risky to rely on a bit of physiognomy to describe players mental stengths and weaknesses.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:He is very safe/conservative/timid in his mind.

And thats why he moonballs. In fact he reminded me Ancic today. Built for aggression but after the serve it's all hesitation. I think his physique (curved-in shoulders) actually betrays his character and weakness of his game. A bit like Gasquet had huge talent but physically he was already showing his mental weaknesses.

But I admit it is a bit risky to rely on a bit of physiognomy to describe players mental stengths and weaknesses.

interesting....that explains Nole's prefect posture
I remember when I first read that body language is 95% of communication it really fried my brain, and then I realised I rarely listen to what people say, prefer just to look in their face. It's a bit trickier on forums though....Woody Allen was brilliant showing that in his films.

Order of play out for tomorrow.

Novak vs Del Potro first on CC at 1PM local time (BST)
followed by Wawrinka vs Fish/Federer

Ouahhh!!!! What a first game from Fed! He stills amazes me 10 years on!!!

just started watching..excellent serving. Fish looks sheepish
It is interesting to see Fed moving forward in Cincy. More than in Wimbledon

Fed takes the first set. E-asy.

enough with the kissing....

Enjoying the match. Should really be in bed as I've got an early start and a big day, glad Mardy's not given up.

Wow what a shot!

They are both playing well. Fed looks really good tonight.
Does Cincy play same or faster than USO?

noleisthebest wrote:They are both playing well. Fed looks really good tonight.
Does Cincy play same or faster than USO?

Yeah I believe they are the fastest courts on tour
Good point from Fish,almost looked like he was facing a virtual match point

Fish put up quite a fight in the 2nd set but Roger was serving and striking the ball too good

And Stan does meet his compatriot in the semi after all...
great tennis, they should have all courts playing so nice!!!!

good night all

Dubai and Cincy, followed by Toronto are the fastest courts now. Paris, Rotterdam and Lyon used to be fast too.

PS: Cincy - Hard, Deco Turf II, Dubai - Hard, Decoturf II. Toronto - Hard, Decoturf. Paris - Hard, Acrylic on Wood.

Federer plays well in the first set, wins the second set TB. Fish played the second much better. Fish's age may be against him and his previous US #1 run may not be duplicated.

Post-match ESPN interview...

Federer - I find it very hard to play against Chiudinelli, since I have known him since I was 8 years old. Perhaps Stan has a similar challenge with me.

Arias - Is he (Chiudinelli) on the first page of ATP rankings.

Gilbert. - Stan served a 140mph serve against Raonic.

Federer - It is a tough match, the h2h is all in the past. Stan is playing very well.

Fowler - He is getting a Yellow card when he gets 'home' to Mirka because of his comment regarding the Kiss-Cam used in US matches.

Good match between Fed and Fish. Fantastic shot making and brilliant points. Fish didn't play bad, not bad at all in the 2nd set but Fed played better and hence won it. Good warm hand-shake at the nets too after the match.

I did not see the second set but Fed came up with great shots in that 1st set. His mouvement is good....back to pre Madrid.

However he must be tired and it's confirmed in his interview. I was shocked to learn that the balls used at Cincy are not the same at the USO. They are really messing things up. The combination of the two might result in Federer giving Stan a better chance. DOes Federer want to go all teh way and get another fight with Delpo or Djoko? Not sure.

Also Federer emphasises in his interview the huge importance of new strings nowadays.

Delpo v Djoko will be interesting.

Tenez wrote:However he must be tired and it's confirmed in his interview. I was shocked to learn that the balls used at Cincy are not the same at the USO. They are really messing things up. The combination of the two might result in Federer giving Stan a better chance. DOes Federer want to go all teh way and get another fight with Delpo or Djoko? Not sure.

Also Federer emphasises in his interview the huge importance of new strings nowadays.

Delpo v Djoko will be interesting.

Can you provide the source of the interview. Fed didn't look tired by the end of the match yesterday and I didn't even expect it. It was just a 1h 25m match.

Sure. He would not be tired at the end of that 3-shot rally match....but tired by the many matches he has played this season.

http://www.cincytennis.com/Players/Interviews/?intloc=headernavsub

As usual it's the reading between the lines...talking about "seeing the end of the tunnel" for instance is what gives away his state of mind. A few paragraph later he talks about the difficulty to play tennis under all conds (Tired, injured, jet lagged, etc....). Things players hardly ever talk in pressies.

Thanks. I still think Fed would want to win the semis to reach and final and retain his #1. I understand the fatigue due to playing many matches and US open is definitely his priority.

I honestly want Delpo to win this and even if that has to be by beating Fed in the final. He is about there to take up the charge where he can be serious challenger at all slams, but just lacks the confidence which one gets by winning big tournaments. His Bronze win did him some good, but a TMS win shall do far more. He is by far the best among the young players on tour. All he needs is a push in the right direction, even if it comes due to some good fortune.

Like Nadal was the solution against Federer, Djoko the solution v Nadal's physical game, I feel Delpo developed the game able to blast through Djoko. I am not saying they consciously developped their game for a particular player but it is as if the solution for the dominant game is naturally produce by the newer generation.

The today match between Delpo and Djoko is very important.

Tenez wrote:Like Nadal was the solution against Federer, Djoko the solution v Nadal's physical game, I feel Delpo developed the game able to blast through Djoko. I am not saying they consciously developped their game for a particular player but it is as if the solution for the dominant game is naturally produce by the newer generation.

The today match between Delpo and Djoko is very important.

he,he Ten, he,he

My channel is not showing the first semifinal . They have English Premier League scheduled. I hope some streams are available.