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Post by legendkillar on Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:41 pm

BEL19VE wrote:
legendkiller wrote:I think there are parts to Djokovic's game to really admire. The fact as a player playing him you know you are one bad shot away from being punished and losing the match. His serve is ridiculously good. The other thing that separates him from the others is that he truly dominated the field. The consistency you speak of is what is actually admirable about him.

I think this is a valiant defence of Djokovic's popularity, but the fact it's still so weak shows why he has no fans. His serve is good, but is it exciting to watch? Has anyone anywhere ever felt excited to watch Djokovic serve an unreturnable? As for his consistency, fine he's consistent, but that doesn't make him fun to watch either.

He does have fans. Do I have to get Twitter and Facebook follower numbers to prove so? Winking

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Post by BEL19VE on Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:16 am

legendkillar wrote:
BEL19VE wrote:
legendkiller wrote:I think there are parts to Djokovic's game to really admire. The fact as a player playing him you know you are one bad shot away from being punished and losing the match. His serve is ridiculously good. The other thing that separates him from the others is that he truly dominated the field. The consistency you speak of is what is actually admirable about him.

I think this is a valiant defence of Djokovic's popularity, but the fact it's still so weak shows why he has no fans. His serve is good, but is it exciting to watch? Has anyone anywhere ever felt excited to watch Djokovic serve an unreturnable? As for his consistency, fine he's consistent, but that doesn't make him fun to watch either.

He does have fans. Do I have to get Twitter and Facebook follower numbers to prove so? Winking

Nadal has double the followers of Djokovic on both twitter and Facebook. I believe on social media overall, Nadal is the most popular player. But of course the younger demographic mean social media isn't representative of all tennis fans.

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Post by BEL19VE on Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:18 am

legendkillar wrote:
I was giving you credit for actually being a fan that admires the tennis before the man and everything else.

I did notice that, and thank you. I do think, and hope, that I am more representative of Nadal fans than you think.

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Post by summerblues on Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:27 am

Daniel2 wrote:There's no carpet tournaments. No fast slams. No grass Masters. Hardly any indoor tournaments. Nothing whatsoever helping Federer accumulate slams like Nadal and all his clay couter ranking points artificially keeping him afloat year on year - along with the French Open with absolutely no clay court specialist in sight.  Federer is leading in 3 of the 4 slams.  Hell, Nadal hasn't even won an ATP tour final he's that one dimensional and useless. 

Federer holds most of the greatest records - he has way more of the greatest slam (and the only slam still played on the surface the game was designed for) . 

Nadal is succeeding only because of the weakest clay court opposition in history along with slow courts along with having FO in his back pocket.  Lucky draws have also helped. He has absolutely no artistry in him and that's obvious with any video evidence.  Same with Djokovic.

Djokovic breaking Roger's weeks n1 is still unlikely.  Nadal breaking it is impossible.  The true measure of test is consistency - greatness demands it.  Nadal has never had it.  Djok and Nadal are woefully short of consec weeks n1 and will be in a wheelchair at 37. So will Nadull.

When you look at the sheer consistency despite the surfaces not favouring him, Federer is light years ahead of those two.  Having one or two numbers and that pathetic dirt record is not going to change squat.
Is this what kids call "a cope"?

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Post by Daniel2 on Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:47 pm

I wouldn't know - my goto response to a post like that isn't a pathetic dismissal - like a kid would do.

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Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:02 am

LK wrote:I think there are parts to Djokovic's game to really admire. The fact as a player playing him you know you are one bad shot away from being punished and losing the match. His serve is ridiculously good. The other thing that separates him from the others is that he truly dominated the field. The consistency you speak of is what is actually admirable about him. 

LK, we are talking here is only about watchablity of Djokovic and his game and why he/his tennis is not as popular as Fed-Nadal. 

Not as an opponent facing him, nor as to how dominant he has been.

LK wrote:Djokovic is not eye-catching as a person. He's the straight A* student in the class that no-one who offer a second glance. He isn't muscly, doesn't scream elegance, not quick witted. He presents a different kind of energy and persona. It's just not identifiable. Hence sheep mentality. That's where it gets me and everyone else. We'd all tune into a Federer or Nadal match than we would a Djokovic one. It's the way it's been for so long.

Again you are using an analogy which doesn't explain anything much. Off-court I wouldn't say Djoko is less of a persona than Fed/Nadal.

I gave reasons why I like watching in Nadal's game and those are simply missing from Djokovic. I saw today Djoko vs Brettinni, what a dull borefest. Djoko is just ready to rally enough without even looking to do anything.

He just doesn't excite me to watch his tennis.

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Post by legendkillar on Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:30 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
LK wrote:I think there are parts to Djokovic's game to really admire. The fact as a player playing him you know you are one bad shot away from being punished and losing the match. His serve is ridiculously good. The other thing that separates him from the others is that he truly dominated the field. The consistency you speak of is what is actually admirable about him. 

LK, we are talking here is only about watchablity of Djokovic and his game and why he/his tennis is not as popular as Fed-Nadal


Not as an opponent facing him, nor as to how dominant he has been.

LK wrote:Djokovic is not eye-catching as a person. He's the straight A* student in the class that no-one who offer a second glance. He isn't muscly, doesn't scream elegance, not quick witted. He presents a different kind of energy and persona. It's just not identifiable. Hence sheep mentality. That's where it gets me and everyone else. We'd all tune into a Federer or Nadal match than we would a Djokovic one. It's the way it's been for so long.

Again you are using an analogy which doesn't explain anything much. Off-court I wouldn't say Djoko is less of a persona than Fed/Nadal.

I gave reasons why I like watching in Nadal's game and those are simply missing from Djokovic. I saw today Djoko vs Brettinni, what a dull borefest. Djoko is just ready to rally enough without even looking to do anything.

He just doesn't excite me to watch his tennis.

Well no. You said Djokovic 'won't be loved' by fans. With respect you'd find it very difficult (more so with the male fans) to find anyone who 'loves' a player for their tennis (at a push Federer as I tend to hear more with him than anyone in the sports history the term 'I love watching his tennis'). 

One point you did make on Nadal's tennis was 'Never wrong with shot selection' which I'd argue Djokovic is much stronger in that area.

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Post by BEL19VE on Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:17 am

LK, you’re right that Djokovic has good shot selection, the issue is it doesn’t make it interesting for fans.

Just want to echo ROTLA’s sentiment about the Djokovic Berretini match. As expected so boring.
A testament to that is BBC do a highlights package of 5 best shots. And one of them was Djokovic just returning a serve and then not doing much until Berretini went wide.

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Post by legendkillar on Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:58 am

Let's be honest, Berrettini is garbage.

I still remember that god awful match he played against Federer at Wimbledon this year. If the great man can't look a million dollars against garbage, then odds are even greater Djokovic could.

It's match ups. Djokovic and Wawrinka, people will watch that (despite not liking Djokovic) because they bring the respective best out of each other. I enjoyed their matches more than Djokovic/Federer. 

I could ask. What was Nadal's most memorable match this year? Against Kyrgios at Wimbledon would more than likely be the answer (despite him playing Federer or Djokovic this year). Mainly because of the added spice. 

So whilst we talk about the 'tennis' it's all about match ups in the main.

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Post by Tenez on Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:19 pm

Nadal once again fails on an indoor medium paced court.
What would Nadal's slam number be without having slowed down all the slams? monofilament strings have probably a greater rle in his success than slow courts. A Bruguera or Berasategui...that's what he would have been in the 90s.

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Post by BEL19VE on Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:22 pm

Good point Tenez, let's take a match where a 33 year old past it Nadal has barely practiced for the last week, and then massively extrapolate it.

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Post by BEL19VE on Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:22 pm

legendkillar wrote:Let's be honest, Berrettini is garbage.

I still remember that god awful match he played against Federer at Wimbledon this year. If the great man can't look a million dollars against garbage, then odds are even greater Djokovic could.
Still some nice shots in the Nadal Berrettini match, have a look at this:
(timed to 1:54)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_fqm-cW4TY&t=114s

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Post by Daniel2 on Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:51 pm

Tenez wrote:Nadal once again fails on an indoor medium paced court.
What would Nadal's slam number be without having slowed down all the slams?

He's be knackered.  He is and always was a one dimensional pusher who is pumped full of stems and god only knows what else.

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Post by Daniel2 on Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:51 pm

BEL19VE wrote:Good point Tenez, let's take a match where a 33 year old past it Nadal has barely practiced for the last week, and then massively extrapolate it.

He hasn't won a single ATP tour final in his entire career.  You've got to accept how bad that looks for his record.  He can't beat the best off his best court.

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Post by BEL19VE on Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:02 pm

I agree his game is less effective when the bounce is very low.

Just a bit silly to read too much into this particular display when it was obvious he's not match sharp.

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Post by Daniel2 on Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:06 am

"The physical issue was not an excuse at all," he said. "The only excuse is I was not good enough tonight.    [Thumbs Up good so far...]
"What really matters is I need to play much better in two days. That's the only thing. We knew that it was going to be tough, because the period of time since the injury until today is very short [ Laugh Doh  and straight after he blows it], but we are here trying."

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Post by BEL19VE on Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:08 am

That's true though, I watch live streams of his practice sessions. He didn't practice at all for most of the week, and his practices on Friday and Saturday were very light, nothing like the normal intensity. Sunday he was practicing properly, hence if you look at the WTF thread I correctly predicted he was healthy and fit to play.

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Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:17 am

BEL19VE wrote:Good point Tenez, let's take a match where a 33 year old past it Nadal has barely practiced for the last week, and then massively extrapolate it.

Missed the point Amri, Tenez is talking about Nadal's entire career.

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Post by Tenez on Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:43 am

Daniel2 wrote:
Tenez wrote:Nadal once again fails on an indoor medium paced court.
What would Nadal's slam number be without having slowed down all the slams?

He's be knackered.  He is and always was a one dimensional pusher who is pumped full of stems and god only knows what else.

I remember a time when you would not suspect him of doping. Glad to see you can actually change views.

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Post by Daniel2 on Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:03 pm

The stems is 100% proven (shouldn't be legal) and I've always found him very dodgy.  The difference is I am not going to state it as a fact like you do.  You need to provide evidence that he's doped or do what I do - and put a likelihood on it.

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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:45 pm

Stem cell surgeries are totally legal and authorised by WADA. I've studied stem cell medicine in quite some detail, and they're not unethical at all, in fact I expect to see the roll of stem massively expand in the coming decades across medicine.

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Post by Daniel2 on Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:15 pm

I said they shouldn't be legal.  You should stand and fall on your own merits.  Nadal is a cheat.

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Post by BEL19VE on Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:22 pm

I think it's absurd to call someone a cheat when stem cells are allowed.

There's no reason why stem cells should arbitrarily not be allowed when other medical advancements aren't.
Federer tore the meniscus in his left knee and had very advanced arthroscopic surgery to fix it.
And he hasn't disclosed the type of treatment he's had for back surgery, remember it troubled him greatly in 2013 but yet 6 years later his back is better than it was then. I can assure you whatever treatment Fed had for his back, it would be cutting edge medicine

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Post by legendkillar on Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:16 pm

BEL19VE wrote:
legendkillar wrote:Let's be honest, Berrettini is garbage.

I still remember that god awful match he played against Federer at Wimbledon this year. If the great man can't look a million dollars against garbage, then odds are even greater Djokovic could.
Still some nice shots in the Nadal Berrettini match, have a look at this:
(timed to 1:54)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_fqm-cW4TY&t=114s

Nah. Berrettini is utter litter. There is no-one on tour that could get a decent match out of him.

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