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ATP 1000 : Monte Carlo 2019

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Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:42 am

The clay season has already begun and the first of the 3 TMS, Monte Carlo is here. It's definitely the most scenic tennis court.

The draw: https://www.atptour.com/en/scores/current/houston/717/draws

The 1st round is already underway.

Among important players, Djoko, Nadal are top seeds. Fed is not playing.

Zverev is diving down-hill... Went to play Houston ATP250 and losing in before QF to unseeded Munar.

I think this clay season is going to be a break-away season for Thiem. Come-on!!!

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Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:46 am

Djokovic brothers are playing doubles together as WC..  

I'm not sure how focussed will Novak Djokovic be for the singles when he is babysitting in doubles. 

Stan beats Pouille.

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Post by noleisthebest on Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:54 am

Yo rotla!

I am getting quite excited about tennis atm.
Monte Carlo is a perfect start for all senses.

I saw a bit of Stan Pouille. It was more of Pouille being horrible than Stan playing his best.

I listened to Nole's interview, he said MC is the slowest clay court, so no wonder even Stan and Pouille looked like sloggers yesterday.

Nole is a new man now, so I don't mind him doing anything that makes him feel good and that includes playing with his bro.
IDEMO MAJSTOREEEEEE!!!!! love love love

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Post by Tenez on Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:12 am

Shapo Nadal could be interesting. Shapo got lessoned last time they played on clay but again youngsters can improve quickly.

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Post by noleisthebest on Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:57 pm

Rubi looks more neurotic than ever.

His face is not ageing well, either. Not to mention the haircut.

Fabio on the other hand never fails to deliver. So smooth. Bubbly

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Post by Jahu on Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:47 pm

Shapo goes home, git.

Lets hope Kohli tomorrow sends Djoko home across the street.

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Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:37 am

Jahu wrote:Shapo goes home, git.

Lets hope Kohli tomorrow sends Djoko home across the street.
 I'll give him 1-2 years more to have these up-down results. But by 21 if he doesn't make himself a solid top-10 with some victories over top-3 in imp matches, then he will be seen the same as others who are just buying their own sweet time.

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Post by Daniel2 on Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:51 am

Total kneejerk reaction.  How old was Fed when he started winning big?

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:55 pm

Wow, Kohlsxhreiber really knows how to blow BPs! Laugh

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Post by Jahu on Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:15 pm

Come on Kohliiiii

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Post by bogbrush on Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:56 pm

Djokovic seems ready to fall off his peak now.

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Post by summerblues on Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:46 am

bogbrush wrote:Djokovic seems ready to fall off his peak now.
I did not see the match, but let's not get too excited yet.  It was his first match on clay in a long while, and possibly the first match he was trying to win since the AO.  Still, better this than an easy straight sets win.

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Post by summerblues on Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:51 am

Daniel2 wrote:Total kneejerk reaction.  How old was Fed when he started winning big?
I agree with rotla.  He did not say Shapo has to win right now.  He gave him 1-2 more years.  In two years he will be 22.  Federer won his first Wimbledon before he turned 22, and he was a relatively late bloomer.

How long would you give Shapo?  Until he is 23, 24, 25?  It will probably be too late by then if he is to become a true superstar.  Of course, if our expectation of him is that he wins a slam or two, and maybe sits somewhere in top 3 for a while, then yes, he has more time.  But if he wants to be the next big multislammer, two years tops before he needs to get serious results (and preferably that should include a slam win).

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Post by Daniel2 on Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:31 am

22 !  Omg... he'll be finished.

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Post by summerblues on Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:57 am

Daniel2 wrote:22 !  Omg... he'll be finished.
Here are all the players who have won 5+ slams from 1970s and later:

Federer - first slam at 21
Nadal - first slam at 19
Djokovic - first slam at 20
Sampras - first slam at 19
Borg - first slam at 18
Connors - first slam at 21
Lendl - first slam at 24 (but was to a slam final, won tour championship and reached #2 ranking before turning 22)
Agassi - first slam at 22
McEnroe - first slam at 20
Wilander - first slam at 17
Edberg - first slam at 19
Becker - first slam at 17

All of these have done quite well by 22.  Maybe it takes players longer to develop these days (though I am not 100% sold on that idea) but how long would you give him before he needs to start winning big things?  You seem to think he does not need to be winning by 22.  When then does he need to?

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Post by Daniel2 on Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:16 am

Who said you have to win 5 slams to be a player worth any note. 

How does Wawrinka factor in as well?

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:09 am

summerblues wrote:
bogbrush wrote:Djokovic seems ready to fall off his peak now.
I did not see the match, but let's not get too excited yet.  It was his first match on clay in a long while, and possibly the first match he was trying to win since the AO.  Still, better this than an easy straight sets win.
Well spotted! Winking

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Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:34 am

Daniel2 wrote:Who said you have to win 5 slams to be a player worth any note. 

How does Wawrinka factor in as well?
 We are looking for someone who will win 10+ slams, someone who will dominate the field like Fed/Nadal/Djoko, someone who can win 3 slams in a year, someone who will be holding on the #1 for months together.


someone who can beat Fed/Nadal/Djo and make their his own space by displacing them, the way they did get to where they are now.

Wawrinka made his space by winning 3 slams by beating Fed/Nadal/Djo. Looking at his overall resume, he won't be in my top-10 GOAT list.

We are looking for someone who makes up into that list.

 Shapo gives some hope for me. That's why such inconsistent performances strike a jolt to this hope.

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Post by Jahu on Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:18 pm

Nadal-Agut 6:1 5:1 with Agut 2 winners whole match?? What fucking bribe shit is this.

Zveev sends home Felix

Herbert sends home Nishi

Foggy sends home Simon

Fritz seems to like clay,beats Shwartzman, who is not a bad clay players.

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Post by Daniel2 on Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:58 pm

yawn.  Clay.

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Post by DEC1M8 on Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:24 pm

Apparently Agut was nearly as good as Djokovic, yet gets beaten by Nadal 6-1 6-1 today.
Wow!

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:56 pm

DEC1M7 wrote:Apparently Agut was nearly as good as Djokovic, yet gets beaten by Nadal 6-1 6-1 today.
Wow!

It then looks like Rafa's recovered from his injuries.
Should be a memorable RG final if Nole temps his form right.

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Post by Daniel2 on Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:30 pm

Strangely, everyone predicted Nadal would be fit and well for clay.  Can't quite work it out....  Oh yeah.  Every time.

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Post by Tenez on Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:28 pm

DEC1M7 wrote:Apparently Agut was nearly as good as Djokovic, yet gets beaten by Nadal 6-1 6-1 today.
Wow!
Or from your angle.... As NADAL has been declining for the last 6 years it is dead clear that the whole top 100 are playing much worse than the top 100 6 years ago since Nadal cut through the draw now with more ease than back then..

And yes once again Nadal returns from 8njury better than where he left it. We never saw that with Stan, Djoko, Delpo or anyone else..... But Nadal.

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Post by DEC1M8 on Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:50 am

Clay is easier on the body than hard court, everyone knows that.

Tenez wrote:And yes once again Nadal returns from 8njury better than where he left it. We never saw that with Stan, Djoko, Delpo or anyone else..... But Nadal.
That's true, especially when Nadal took 6 months out in late 2016 with a knee injury which required surgery, and then came back in early 2017 and won 4 5 setters in a row in his first tournament back... oh wait

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Post by DEC1M8 on Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:52 am

Tenez wrote:
DEC1M7 wrote:Apparently Agut was nearly as good as Djokovic, yet gets beaten by Nadal 6-1 6-1 today.
Wow!
Or from your angle.... As NADAL has been declining for the last 6 years it is dead clear that the whole top 100 are playing much worse than the top 100 6 years ago since Nadal cut through the draw now with more ease than back then..

And yes once again Nadal returns from 8njury better than where he left it. We never saw that with Stan, Djoko, Delpo or anyone else..... But Nadal.
As you said Agut is nearly as good as Djokovic these days, I'm expecting Nadal to beat Djokovic 6-2 6-2 Magic

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Post by summerblues on Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:24 am

Jahu wrote:Nadal-Agut 6:1 5:1 with Agut 2 winners whole match??
Yay!  Clay court season barely started, and so cheerful already.  I can guess the ending too.

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Post by summerblues on Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:37 am

Daniel2 wrote:How does Wawrinka factor in as well?
Like this:
summerblues wrote:Of course, if our expectation of him is that he wins a slam or two, and maybe sits somewhere in top 3 for a while, then yes, he has more time.
Yes, if he is to become a second/third tier star - someone like Wawrinka or Vilas or Kodes, or even Hewitt or Courier, then maybe he does have more time.  No shame in that, and maybe that is what he will become.

But rotla and I are asking where is the next really big star?  When you look back the last 50 years, there would almost always have been one, two, or more players competing at the top who would ultimately end up with 6, 7, 8, or more slams.  And those kinds of players invariably broke through early.  Where are those?  There is darth of them after Djokovic.  I can think of Delpo who looked like he had all the potential until he got injured not long after his slam title and - puff - that was that.  The only other one is Zverev who is turning 22 later this week and who - if I am squinting hard enough and hope his slam futility is not terminal - looks just about barely comparable to some of the old greats at the same age.

So it will probably need to be someone younger.

Also, we need to remember that not only did all the great champions of the years past win big things by 21-22, but there were also a few who did win big titles young and still did not become all time greats (e.g., Safin, Hewitt).  We cannot even get those these days!

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Post by Jahu on Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:11 am

Think next 5 years it will be a lot of GS winners, not one or two guys kicking ass.

These young kids are up and down on each tournament, some seem happy with a SF or F and than 6 months nothing. No hunger or discipline, more of a FB generation kids.

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Post by Tenez on Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:51 am

Remember Djokovic until he got to 24 (2011). Kept losing to lesser players in spite of having a pretty safe game without taking risk. The rest of the field besides Federer looked like amateurs compared to current players.

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Post by noleisthebest on Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:50 am

Ale re Stefanooos!!! diva

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Post by noleisthebest on Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:58 am

noleisthebest wrote:Ale re Stefanooos!!! diva

Grr

and he loses in the most stupid way....with two DFs.

I am going to start believing jinxing exists and I hate it.

But fortunately it doesn't work for Nole. Big Grin

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Post by sphairistike on Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:18 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Ale re Stefanooos!!! diva

Grr

and he loses in the most stupid way....with two DFs.

I am going to start believing jinxing exists and I hate it.

But fortunately it doesn't work for Nole. Big Grin
It's not about jinxing here, whether it exists or not. Tsitsi just gets owned by fellow #NextGen-ers in real ATP (non #NextGen only) tournaments. The lists contains safely Medvedev - which really has been putting some great results this year and got unlucky to meet Djoker earlier in AO than Tsitsi met Nadal, so really he should have been ahead of Tsitsi in ratings, FAA and Shapo...

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Post by Daniel2 on Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:44 pm

Clay makes injuries go away?  Who'd have thunk it.  Laugh

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Post by noleisthebest on Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:47 pm

As far as I'm concerned, Fabio is the king of clay. I absolutely love watching him play.

So good. love

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Post by sphairistike on Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:46 pm

Yes, Fog is great and so fun to watch! What about this Lorenzo Sonego? He has not lost a set in the main draw and beat Khacha on the way (and Seppi, who is Italian too) but one against Nishioka (who's not bad) in qualies... He's only 23, so I am wondering...

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:03 am

sphairistike wrote:Yes, Fog is great and so fun to watch! What about this Lorenzo Sonego? He has not lost a set in the main draw and beat Khacha on the way (and Seppi, who is Italian too) but one against Nishioka (who's not bad) in qualies... He's only 23, so I am wondering...
No idea!
A totally new name to me. Is he Italian? In that case, probably promising. They all have so much flair. Magic

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Post by summerblues on Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:38 am

Thiem?  Ha ha haha ha

Zverev?  LOL ROFL LOL

Tsitsipas, Khachanov, Cilic, Nishi - all gone.

But who is still here?  Of course, Rafa and Nole.  Wah

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Post by Tenez on Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:04 am

summerblues wrote:Thiem?  Ha ha haha ha

Zverev?  LOL ROFL LOL

Tsitsipas, Khachanov, Cilic, Nishi - all gone.

But who is still here?  Of course, Rafa and Nole.  Wah

LOL!

Rafa on clay is a different sport and he benefits from the lack of experience of his opponents. That's the surface he imposes his game while on others he has to deal with their opponents game.

Chung is one we forgot but was also a promising youngster now plagued with injuries.

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Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:46 am

Tenez wrote:Remember Djokovic until he got to 24 (2011). Kept losing to lesser players in spite of having a pretty safe game without taking risk. The rest of the field besides Federer looked like amateurs compared to current players.

Year  2007 : 2 TMS wins, 1 Slam final. YE rank : 03
Year 2008 : 2 TMS win, 1 F, 1 Slam win   YE rank: 03

Bring me anyone after him who gets resume even close to this. Zverev is only one if at all, and he hasn't even seen a Slam SF and a lonely QF.

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:01 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
sphairistike wrote:Yes, Fog is great and so fun to watch! What about this Lorenzo Sonego? He has not lost a set in the main draw and beat Khacha on the way (and Seppi, who is Italian too) but one against Nishioka (who's not bad) in qualies... He's only 23, so I am wondering...
No idea!
A totally new name to me. Is he Italian? In that case, probably promising. They all have so much flair. Magic
Well, it's a no.
Pretty dull tennis if you're asking moi.

On the other hand, though...Dusan Lajovic, the single-handed pride of Serbia was marvellous!!!! love Smooch diva

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Post by summerblues on Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:17 pm

Serb - Russian semifinal?

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:31 pm

summerblues wrote:Serb - Russian semifinal?
In yer dreeeemz! Cool

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Post by summerblues on Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:43 pm

Some vintage volleys and overheads from Nole.

But also much improved Nole after 0-40.

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:46 pm

What?!!!!
Nole 2:4 down.
Time to start watching.


IDEMO MAJSTOREEEEE!!! diva

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:54 pm

summerblues wrote:Some vintage volleys and overheads from Nole.

But also much improved Nole after 0-40.

Nole's game's filled out nicely.
He's got all the shots now. Add that movement and Serbian heart and it's - no passaran, ooooh maaaaaan! Bubbly

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Post by summerblues on Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:00 pm

So far so good.

There was another lovely overhead from Nole in that game.

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Post by summerblues on Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:02 pm

I was being sarcastic though. He had dumped a routine volley and an easy overhead into the net in that game.

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Post by summerblues on Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:10 pm

At this level of play, neither of these two guys would have any hope vs Rafa.

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:10 pm

summerblues wrote:I was being sarcastic though.  He had dumped a routine volley and an easy overhead into the net in that game.

It's not healthy to be so sarcastic, SB.

Remember The Little Prince!

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