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Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

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Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:38 am

We've had Baby Fed 1 - Gasquet. Don't ask me why...must have been the SBH, as they were getting rare at the time.

Then when Gasquet turned out to be Baby Robredo, came Dimitrov...Baby Fed 2!
SBH was there, plus he also tried to look like Federer...in his early days, there was a bandana...
Alas, Dimi didn't have much else to keep building on that big nickname, esp not the FH.
So he ended up being Baby Haas.

And now...allow me to be the first to christen Denis Shapovalov as:

BABY FED 3!

Here are my reasons:

Obviously, the SBH! (that has to be a must to qualify! Winking ) 
Big game, fearless, emotional,  good competitor, likes to cry...and fantastic overheads!
A very modern version.

What do tou think?


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Re: Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

Post by legendkillar on Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:45 am

I'd rather he just be christened Denis Shapovalov.

Not into this Baby Fed nonsense. The guy can forge his own path without having to worry about carrying labels of being likened to past players.

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Re: Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

Post by HM Murdoch on Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:51 am

I actually think he's the least like Federer of the three!

If he's like anyone, I see him as closer to Stan. It's the power of the shots rather than the shape of them that makes him stand out.

In terms of temperament, it's tough to say. Shap is only 18 and Federer at 18 had a different on-court persona to Federer in his 20s.

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Re: Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:51 am

legendkillar wrote:I'd rather he just be christened Denis Shapovalov.

Not into this Baby Fed nonsense. The guy can forge his own path without having to worry about carrying labels of being likened to past players.

Baby Fed ticket is a badge of honour, LK!

Of course he is Denis Shapovalov, and he sure knows it! Magic

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Re: Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

Post by legendkillar on Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:59 am

... wrote:
legendkillar wrote:I'd rather he just be christened Denis Shapovalov.

Not into this Baby Fed nonsense. The guy can forge his own path without having to worry about carrying labels of being likened to past players.

Baby Fed ticket is a badge of honour, LK!

Of course he is Denis Shapovalov, and he sure knows it! Magic

It's no badge of honour, much rather a curse!

It's a pressure I don't think he need really. It didn't help Dimi's career and I can't ever recall Gassy ever being called it.

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Re: Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

Post by Tenez on Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:30 am

To me he was most impressive on grass...yesterday did not really impress me from the 15mn clip I saw.

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Re: Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:48 am

Tenez wrote:To me he was most impressive on grass...yesterday did not really impress me from the 15mn clip I saw.
Yes!
I think the clip probably didn't do him justice.
We'll see now he fares vs Manna, should be a really good one.

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Re: Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

Post by Jahu on Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:44 pm

I agree with HMM, more of a Stan power style, then Fed.

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Re: Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

Post by Daniel on Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:00 pm

Nobody is like Federer/ He's a player that comes along once in 50 to 100 years.


Last edited by Daniel on Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:01 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

Post by bogbrush on Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:11 pm

Makes me smile how they talk about how generous Federer is knocking with all these young players.

Absolutely nothing to do with him getting a feel for their game of course. If he plays Shapovalov he won't be unfamiliar with his ball.

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Re: Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:11 am

Jahu wrote:I agree with HMM, more of a Stan power style, then Fed.

Stan is rigid in his style, Shapa is not. Hence his best surface is grass.

Stan likes slow comditions, Shapa fast.

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Re: Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

Post by Tenez on Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:46 am

Federer on Shap: "It looks like he has a few more gears".

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Re: Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:30 am

Yes, only a player with lots of talent and belief in that talent can play/win they way Shapa is winning.

It's nice to see.

Ostapenko is very similar, though noone can match her strength. She is really special.

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Re: Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:42 pm

Yes, Shap has talent and he can play!
Really not bad for an 18 yo.


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Re: Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

Post by summerblues on Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:13 pm

The first time Shapovalov and Rafa met (courtesy of Reckoner on 606v2)

reckoner wrote:They met for the first time at the Rogers Cup in 2008:


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Re: Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:17 pm

Hehe, young Shap only asked Feli to sign his shirt.

He knew the value of SBH even then. Big Grin

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Re: Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

Post by summerblues on Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:30 pm

Shapovalov is great to watch and if he keeps it up he will quite possibly become my favorite player after Fed retires (assuming Fed retires before he does).

But. He is no baby Fed. One thing that makes Fed extra special is that his game is at the same time jaw-droppingly good and jaw-droppingly stylish. You can sort top 100 players in terms of quality, and then again in terms of elegance. The two lists will look quite scrambled relative to each other, but Fed will top them both.

Shapovalov is good and very watchable, and may well become great. But he will never have Fed's elegance. Both Fed's shots, and even more so Fed's movement are miles more graceful than Shapovalov's. Fed, especially young Fed, was moving like a cat. He just always happened to be in position. Shapovalov just the opposite. He is quite often caught off-balance (credit to him he is often able to make his shots anyway, but it costs him elegance points).

Shapovalov is just Shapovalov. I can see why people would liken him to Stan - with his power off both wings - but on balance I do not like that comparison either. Shapovalov is far more aggressive than Stan, he is constantly looking for an opportunity to take the point over.

Anyway, I hope he does well because I like him better than any other of the youngsters.

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Re: Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:45 pm

summerblues wrote:Shapovalov is great to watch and if he keeps it up he will quite possibly become my favorite player after Fed retires (assuming Fed retires before he does).
Laugh
summerblues wrote:
But.  He is no baby Fed.  One thing that makes Fed extra special is that his game is at the same time jaw-droppingly good and jaw-droppingly stylish.  You can sort top 100 players in terms of quality, and then again in terms of elegance.  The two lists will look quite scrambled relative to each other, but Fed will top them both.
Fed 2017 is also a very polished version of his 18 yo self.
He is twice Shap's age!
summerblues wrote:
Shapovalov is good and very watchable, and may well become great.  But he will never have Fed's elegance.  Both Fed's shots, and even more so Fed's movement are miles more graceful than Shapovalov's.  Fed, especially young Fed, was moving like a cat.  He just always happened to be in position.  Shapovalov just the opposite.  He is quite often caught off-balance (credit to him he is often able to make his shots anyway, but it costs him elegance points).
Yes, I know.
That's why all these olayers get the "baby" tag. Nobody said he was going to be the same as Federer.
But he is very similar in the court thinking, and above all he is natural, does not play by percentage and is not a basher either.
And that is a big thing.
Who else plays like that?
summerblues wrote:
Shapovalov is just Shapovalov.  I can see why people would liken him to Stan - with his power off both wings - but on balance I do not like that comparison either.  Shapovalov is far more aggressive than Stan, he is constantly looking for an opportunity to take the point over.
Anyway, I hope he does well because I like him better than any other of the youngsters.
I think he's very different to Stan.
Stan is heavy on his feet, a bit mechanical, needs slow surfaces, Shapa is the other way round.

Shap's  BH is potentially going to be better than Stan's.
And his FH & serve are better already.

Once he masters his net game, he'll be fantastic. He is a loose player. A rare thing these days,
He already loves to move in, but it's not as easy as 20 years ago when Fed was starting.

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Re: Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:49 pm

I wonder how much is being lefty going to help Shap.

Yesterday was funny to watch CC FH between him and Manna (also a lefty).


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Re: Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

Post by summerblues on Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:00 pm

Being lefty will help. It always does - at least a little bit. It certainly helped vs Rafa where his SHBH was not much of a liability (before they played I forgot Denis was a lefty so was a little worried and then it felt so good during the match that cross court rallies were FH-toFH).

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Re: Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

Post by Tenez on Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:17 pm

Yes Fed is very special cause he makes this gruelling era look easy. I have not seen a player who can afford to make the game look easy. ......Nalbandian in a way was closest to him but he really was lazy.

It's not Feli in Shap's company...it's that Russian who gave Fed some trouble in that 2008 USO 1/4 or SF.

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Re: Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:21 pm

You're right, it's Andreev. Blush

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Re: Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

Post by summerblues on Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:41 pm

Cross-posting from 606v2:

Shapovalov in now 18y4m old (well, will be in a couple of days).  That is awful young to be in M1000 SF.  In fact, if I understand ATP site correctly, he is the youngest ever quarter-finalist in an M1000 event (apparently 1990 is the beginning of history there).

I compared him to some other current players - the big four and some other notables that were spoken of highly when young - to see how old they were when they first reached SF at either M1000 or a slam.  Here goes (some numbers may be slightly off):

Shapovalov:  18y 4m

Big 4:
Rafa: 18y 9m (Miami '05)
Andy: 19y 3m (Canada '06)
Nole: 19y 9m (IW '07)
Fed: 20y 7m (Miami '02)

Some others:
Gasquet: 18y 9m (MC, '05)
Monfils: 19y 8m (Rome '06)
Zverev: 20y (Rome '17)
Del Potro: 20y 5m (Miami '09)
Kyrgios: 20y 10m (Miami '16)
Raonic: 22y 7m (Canada '13)
Thiem: 22y 9m (RG, '16)
Dimitrov: 23y (Rome '14)
Tomic: na
Coric: na

Shapovalov youngest of them all - about five months ahead of Rafa and Gasquet.  Too soon to tell if his career will be more Rafaesque or Gasquetesque, but the start is as good as anyone's.

Also, noteworthy that both Zverev and Shapovalov (and even Kyrgios) have been able to break through at a young age - similar to Rafa/Andy/Nole/Fed before them, suggesting yet again that the dearth of successful youngsters in-between is due to lack of talent as much as due to changes in playing conditions.

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Re: Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:57 pm

Wow, that's quite a telling chart.
Didn't know Nole was so "old" when he "started".
In my mind he won his first slam in 08, AO, and was sure he won Miami or Montreal, I think, the same or year before. He beat Fed in the final, and in thise days beating Fed was breaking news.

Regardless, this youngest young generation does look talented, at least Shapalov and Kyrgios.

They play with ease.

Zverev is another Nadal in a way, winning with power and fitness.

The X generation - Nishi Dimi and Rao are def. lost.
Did they ever have real, proper talent?
In my books only Nishi, but he had so many other issues.

Dimi just not good enough, although he is very good and I really took to him this AO when he nearly beat Nadal.
He fought like a lion.

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Re: Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

Post by Tenez on Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:02 pm

summerblues wrote:Cross-posting from 606v2:

Shapovalov in now 18y4m old (well, will be in a couple of days).  That is awful young to be in M1000 SF.  In fact, if I understand ATP site correctly, he is the youngest ever quarter-finalist in an M1000 event (apparently 1990 is the beginning of history there).

I compared him to some other current players - the big four and some other notables that were spoken of highly when young - to see how old they were when they first reached SF at either M1000 or a slam.  Here goes (some numbers may be slightly off):

Shapovalov:  18y 4m

Big 4:
Rafa: 18y 9m (Miami '05)
Andy: 19y 3m (Canada '06)
Nole: 19y 9m (IW '07)
Fed: 20y 7m (Miami '02)

Some others:
Gasquet: 18y 9m (MC, '05)
Monfils: 19y 8m (Rome '06)
Zverev: 20y (Rome '17)
Del Potro: 20y 5m (Miami '09)
Kyrgios: 20y 10m (Miami '16)
Raonic: 22y 7m (Canada '13)
Thiem: 22y 9m (RG, '16)
Dimitrov: 23y (Rome '14)
Tomic: na
Coric: na

Shapovalov youngest of them all - about five months ahead of Rafa and Gasquet.  Too soon to tell if his career will be more Rafaesque or Gasquetesque, but the start is as good as anyone's.

Also, noteworthy that both Zverev and Shapovalov (and even Kyrgios) have been able to break through at a young age - similar to Rafa/Andy/Nole/Fed before them, suggesting yet again that the dearth of successful youngsters in-between is due to lack of talent as much as due to changes in playing conditions.

I would like to read the same stats about youngsters reaching TMS1000 semi or finals....Shapo might not be top any longer...which won't tell us anything about his future success anyway.


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Re: Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

Post by Tenez on Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:46 pm

It's funny...Shapo's legwork and FH reminds me of young Agassi.

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Re: Baby Fed 3: Denis Shapovalov

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:55 pm

On second thoughts, his blond hair reminds me of young Becker...



I get it!!!

Nobody can ever be Federer, not even a baby Federer.

Dear me, this is a hornet's nest!

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