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ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by Tenez on Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:38 pm

I woudl love to see Baghy back at the top...but I fear he never had teh mindset. Too emotional. But I agree, it's human tennis. And that's what teh sport was all about originally. Now we have "corporate" players leaving nothing to chance...certainly not prepared to let talent get in their ways!

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by ... on Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:04 pm

But (when) was he really at the top?
Just one slam final, and not much else.

Being 30 and a DBH-er, he certainly had plenty of time to have good results before RR era.

Federer was leaving only crumbs for others, though...

Coming from a tiny country with no tennis tradition, he had pressure on his shoulders that players from France, US etc simply don't know about...

His horrible haircut, bandana always put me off...plus that silly grin. And to me, he was always more vain than emotional.

He played some fun tennis today, but I would've preferred Feli in the final against Stan.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by Tenez on Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:17 pm

noleisthebest wrote:But (when) was he really at the top?
Just one slam final, and not much else.

Being 30 and a DBH-er, he certainly had plenty of time to have good results before RR era.

Federer was leaving only crumbs for others, though...

Coming from a tiny country with no tennis tradition, he had pressure on his shoulders that players from France, US etc simply don't know about...

His horrible haircut, bandana always put me off...plus that silly grin. And to me, he was always more vain than emotional.

He played some fun tennis today, but I would've preferred Feli in the final against Stan.

Did not he reached Wimby semi as well the same year?

Also he learnt his tennis in France, playing against French players and taken care of by the French tennis federation, having a French coach as well of course.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by Tenez on Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:23 pm

He was number 8 in the world when he was 20.......that is not a small achievement!!! he is amongst many that did not embrass the physical side of the sport. He tried hard but never succeeded.

As I said earlier, he had an amazing flat and dangerous FH for his time....and with the new strings that weapon became obsolete quickly. But I also think his emotions were a big let down for him.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by ... on Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:27 pm

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:But (when) was he really at the top?
Just one slam final, and not much else.
Being 30 and a DBH-er, he certainly had plenty of time to have good results before RR era.
Federer was leaving only crumbs for others, though...
Coming from a tiny country with no tennis tradition, he had pressure on his shoulders that players from France, US etc simply don't know about...
His horrible haircut, bandana always put me off...plus that silly grin. And to me, he was always more vain than emotional.
He played some fun tennis today, but I would've preferred Feli in the final against Stan.
Did not he reached Wimby semi as well the same year?
Also he learnt his tennis in France, playing against French players and taken care of by the French tennis federation, having a French coach as well of course.
Ooooh, that explains a few things...looking at him though, I would've never thought he even visited France.
But they certainly taught him how to play.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by ... on Sat Feb 27, 2016 9:35 am

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:wow.....Nole sick......that's unexpected!

It's a leap year.
Expect the unexpected.

His sick eye  will have helped him to actually see a few things better: that he does not have as much credit with the world as he deserves and as he has certainly earnt over the years.

But you know what they say: what doesn't kill you makes you stronger...

I certainly see things very differently. He has had an amazing success for such average tennis skills...without talking about his unaesthetic style.
Yes.

Tenez wrote:
It's all will power, fitness and determination.  Traits that I appreciate in those who have talent as this is very hard for them to develop since they usually have things easy but I don;t particularly value will power and determination for those who have only that.....as they have no other choice.

Phizzog, by Carl Sandburg

This face you got,
This here phizzog you carry around,
You never picked it out for yourself
at all, at all—-did you?
This here phizzog—-somebody handed it
to you–am I right?
Somebody said, “Here’s yours, now go see
what you can do with it.”
Somebody slipped it to you and it was like
a package marked:
“No goods exchanged after being taken away”—-
This face you got.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by ... on Sat Feb 27, 2016 6:43 pm

Only saw the TB of Stan-Baghdatis...it was superb.

Tennis at its alive finest.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by Tenez on Sat Feb 27, 2016 9:17 pm

I missed it all...again but glad Stan adds to his record. Would have loved to see Baghy win it too.

So now Allez Thiem!

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by ... on Sat Feb 27, 2016 9:20 pm

Yes, good times for SBH-ers!
If Thiem and Cuevas win, we could have 3/3 SBH titles this week.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by ... on Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:34 pm

Confidence seems to be word de jour in Dubai.

Wawrinka ...has won the last nine finals he's played:

"There is no explanation. I know that the more I win matches in the same week, the more confidence I get. I know normally when I get some finals that I play my best tennis.''


Baghdatis:
"I didn't win the tournament this week but I won a lot more, I won my confidence back,.
I'm happy I'm back and playing this kind of tennis now.''


They are both 30, but somehow, despite playing with one hand, Stan actually looks younger and his tennis on the rise.

Baghdatis feels is like he is from that old era of Hewitt, Nalby and Davydenko, whereas Stan...almost like he is beginning to peak.

I was watching him a bit this week...when focused, he is timing the ball amazingly well, beginning to go for some new shots, feeling better inside the court.

Confidence really does bring out the best of him.

I can easily see him win a few more slams if he keeps injury free.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by Tenez on Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:46 am

noleisthebest wrote:....I can easily see him win a few more slams if he keeps injury free.

That would be cool.

Just watched teh first set TB between Thiem and Tomic and Thiem was doing lots of scrapping...whereas Tomic was close to the lines and dictating....but again forced to pull the trigger first (and miss) as he is not moving too well.

Thiem was certainly on the back foot all the time....but won it.....despite Tomic being a mini break up.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by Tenez on Sun Feb 28, 2016 5:02 am

Apparently, Tomic served for second set .....but lost 12 points in a row....so must have been 40/0 up with 3 SP on his serve!

Tomic thiem are the new Nalby/Fed.

I somehow prefer Tomic's game. he is a cleaner ball striker. he has broken Thiem again in the second set. His mouvement is his main weakness.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by Tenez on Sun Feb 28, 2016 5:21 am

And Tomic just about holds his serve to win the second set.

Strange cause I think I prefer Thiem than Tomic but I certainly prefer Tomic's striking of the ball..even if he is not that creative with his tennis. he just times it so well.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by ... on Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:20 am

That must have been a good match, it even went to three sets.
Thiem will have been tired from three weeks of almost non-stop back to back play.

Despite that I knew he would win, he's just got that relentless drive inside him...which Tomic sadly doesn't.

His easy power from that flat hitting is so rare and attractive, but you are right about his footwork, such a shame.

Yet...he could improve it if he really wanted to, & wasn't lazy, i.e. didn't have all that air between his ears.

At least he is makng some kind of an effort to keep up...knowing his mindset, that is a huge effort for him.

In a way, Kyrgios and Kokkinaks turning up on the Oz scene is the best thing that's happened to him - woke him up out of his "Do you know who I am?" delusion...(those are the words he said to a police officer in Australia when stopped for speeding in his sports car).

As for Thiem...well this is the modern face of SBH tennis: sweaty, not so graceful, but still forceful and able to cut through even fast DBH shots.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by ... on Sun Feb 28, 2016 6:09 pm

Curvas is such an elegant player.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by Tenez on Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:44 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Curvas is such an elegant player.

I only saw him once and it was at the FO ..if I remember and yes he was playing well. Can't remember who against!

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by Tenez on Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:48 pm

nice article....and great picture.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/infosys-match-length-federer-2016-february

Again Federer stretching his body but no grimacing needed and all eyes on the ball. That's why he is a genius. Effortless! The very definition of talent!

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by ... on Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:27 pm

Very interesting article.

I kind of knew it, numbers only confirm the obvious.

Also, quite consistently for all players, no surprises Nadal takes longest for everything...

.....

I was talking about Federer today, in the context of how wonderful everything God made  is and how a man is by far the most complex and interesting creature in so many ways...and then Federer came to mind...with the gift he was given, as if God was showing off.
The grace and endless creativity in full flow and flight.
Fantastic.

But you know what that means...we will never have a repeat.

Just like we never had another Mozart.
Or another Tesla.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by Tenez on Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:56 am

Why would we want another Mozart or tesla?we also have 10 000 other geniuses...more or less...and glad we have no 10 000 other Mozarts.

McEnroe was thought never to be matched. he never was....but was bettered in many ways. It will be no different for Federer.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by ... on Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:22 pm

Tenez wrote:Why would we want another Mozart or tesla?we also have 10 000 other geniuses...more or less...and glad we have no 10 000 other Mozarts.

McEnroe was thought never to be matched. he never was....but was bettered in many ways. It will be no different for Federer.

Federer is not a bettered McEnroe.
He is perfection made through weakness of human flesh.

And you cannot better perfection.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:26 am

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:Why would we want another Mozart or tesla?we also have 10 000 other geniuses...more or less...and glad we have no 10 000 other Mozarts.

McEnroe was thought never to be matched. he never was....but was bettered in many ways. It will be no different for Federer.

Federer is not a bettered McEnroe.
He is perfection made through weakness of human flesh.

And you cannot better perfection.

McEnroe was seen as perfect back then too. Perfection cannot be bettered, I agree but perfection is not unique, there are multiple perfections. In teh same way as Mozart and Federer are both "perfect" in a way, An apple and a pear are also perfect in their own way. There is no "perfect" fruit......they are all perfect.

someone one day might be able to play SABR and volley on any point....without having the mumber of UEs Fed comes with.

Also as perfect Mozart and Federer are, perfection is not of this world. Here everything is stained. federer had no answer to Nadal for instance....even at his peak!

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by ... on Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:22 pm

Tenez wrote:
McEnroe was seen as perfect back then too.
I have never seen him as any kind of perfection, even Laver was better than him.
Tenez wrote:Perfection cannot be bettered, I agree but perfection is not unique, there are multiple perfections. In teh same way as Mozart and Federer are both "perfect" in a way, An apple and a pear are also perfect in their own way. There is no "perfect" fruit......they are all perfect.
Although I agree with the content of your words, you are in essence watering down the concept of perfection.
And that is where I see Federer differently from you.

I really see him as perfection that cannot be bettered.

It's not just tennis, it's his athletic ability, his control of emotions, his quick mind, his diligence. Even his craft.
Plus that extra which pieces is it all together into a creation that keeps growing & bearing sumptuous fruit.

If his body was not finite (and here is the "stain" from your argument comes through/true), he would be getting better infinitely.

You are an evolutionist...you think good will keep getting bettered.

I think the opposite. Once perfection manifests itself, things go downhill. Slowly but surely.

That is why we will never have another Mozart or Tesla. Or Federer.

All three have had their strength wrought through their individual weakness. That is the pattern of human perfection.
Tenez wrote:
someone one day might be able to play SABR and volley on any point....without having the mumber of UEs Fed comes with.

Also as perfect Mozart and Federer are, perfection is not of this world. Here everything is stained. federer had no answer to Nadal for instance....even at his peak!

Yes, perfection is certainly not of this world. And your example with Nadal is perfect (Winking )
Salieri never dented Mozart's perfection, though he was able to finish him off.
Or Edison & Tesla.

It has one famously been called "thorn in the flesh".

And for the best possible reason!

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:16 pm

One cannot deny evolution. But that does not mean that things will improve for ever. Things tend to perfection without ever reaching it.

Take the example of the circle I talked about once. On earth, we will never be able to create a perfect circle, but we will constantly improve our wheels (or disks)...to match the theoritical Pixrsq2. Pirsq2 Disk def) cannot be better in terms of defining a disk surface but we are getting closer every time.

And that is made even more complicated by teh fact that perfection is also in teh eye of teh beholder.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by ... on Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:06 pm

Well, I still think tennis perfection has been captured in Federer and we will never see anyone "more perfect" than him.

He IS the circle when it comes to tennis. The human circle.

The whole world is slowly decaying - it is not getting better. Evolution is a fallacy as people assume it means improvement.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:30 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Well, I still think tennis perfection has been captured in Federer and we will never see anyone "more perfect" than him.

He IS the circle when it comes to tennis. The human circle.

The whole world is slowly decaying - it is not getting better. Evolution is a fallacy as people assume it means improvement.
But isn't it funny that in this chaos and corrupt world someone like federer comes along!

There again, it's great timing!

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by ... on Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:00 pm

Tenez wrote:But isn't it funny that in this chaos and corrupt world someone like federer comes along!

There again, it's great timing!

I love him only as a tennis player.

Off court that magic disappears. I suppose that's human perfection...Winking

I used to live close to where he was from.

It's a very strange combination of unrivalled, spectacular natural beauty and sterile, controlled, hostile society.

And to such a polar microcosmos this gift was given.


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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by Tenez on Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:24 pm

Quimper is ridiculously fast. No wonder those guys playing on the challenger have no chance v the top players playing on slow conds. It's a very different game.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by ... on Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:14 pm

Tenez wrote:Quimper is ridiculously fast. No wonder those guys playing on the challenger have no chance v the top players playing on slow conds. It's a very different game.

Yes, hopefully ATP tour will start to speed things up.

Is this realistic to expect, though?

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by ... on Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:36 pm

Just saw the list of players, not bad at all...and Rubi had to qualify even for a challenger!!!! Yikes

http://www.opendequimper.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/02-mars.pdf

Hopfully they'll show some matches tomorrow.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by Tenez on Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:51 pm

Rublev needing 4 MP v Lacko! Sad for Lacko. One feels he has no motivation, enthusiam for the game....despite being a real talent too.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by Tenez on Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:25 am

apparently Rublev got a walk over from Stak...quite lucky .

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by ... on Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:25 am

Tenez wrote:apparently Rublev got a walk over from Stak...quite lucky .

That's why there was no steam...hopefully they'll show the final today.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by Tenez on Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:22 pm

watching now...as much as I like fast conditions...when it's 2 baseliners it's a bit boring.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by ... on Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:26 pm

I am watchingg Nole-Kuku and Rubi-PHM on two screens.

Yes, not much creativity in the latter match, but do enjoy Rubi's dragon FH.

Nole in big trouble, a set down...surface dead and low bouncing, struggling to time his metronome rallying BH.
Looks very rusty, esp his feet, which is unusual.

Having to watch the ball all the time and be ultra focused.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by Tenez on Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:40 pm

Yes Rubiu had another BP....and PHM did well to win it. I am gladly surprised to see Rubi holding his own. ....though now serving to stay in it I hope I haven't cursed him.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by ... on Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:41 pm

Too much fire in Little Dragon....he'll have to learn to tame it. Hug

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by Tenez on Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:50 pm

Shame he was the better player in that first set.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by ... on Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:52 pm

Tenez wrote:Shame he was the better player in that first set.
He is a better player full stop...just a little unlucky.


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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by ... on Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:54 pm

Tenez wrote:apparently Rublev got a walk over from Stak...quite lucky .
Call me a mad conspirationist...it's just dawned on me, Stak being Ukranian was probably made an offer he couldn't refuse....

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by Tenez on Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:48 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:apparently Rublev got a walk over from Stak...quite lucky .
Call me a mad conspirationist...it's just dawned on me, Stak being Ukranian was probably made an offer he couldn't refuse....

Good point! This is a bizarre withdrawl. He seemed ok in his QF. Shame they used to be one nation.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by ... on Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:59 pm

1:1

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by Tenez on Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:00 pm

Poor PHM..he is so weak mentally. Well tennis wise.

1 set all. And as you said Rub is simply the better player. he goes for too much at times but I still think he will be a great player...cause he can only get better.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by Tenez on Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:49 pm

Well done Rubi! Reaching his highest ranking at 163 or something. ...though way behind Taylor.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by ... on Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:02 pm

Tenez wrote:Well done Rubi! Reaching his highest ranking at 163 or something. ...though way behind Taylor.

Well...he doesn't get WCs for slams like Americans/Brits/Ozes/French...

I enjoyed watching him today.
Once he simmers down/channels his volcano temper he'll be fantastic.

I can see an inprovemnt from when I saw him in Roehampton, he started using BH slice!

And I do love his FH.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

Post by Tenez on Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:24 pm

His FH (and BH) are fantastic. I think he will be even more dangerous on clay as his UEs will be cut down but his pace will still be good enough.

His serve is not bad, not varied much but that will come with confidence too. His returns were surprisingly good too. It's just a lot of UEs. With experience those wil be seriously reduced and then it's going to be hard for the rest.

Coric'd better get the new magic potion!

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Re: ATP 500/250: Dubai, Acapulco, Sao Paolo

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