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ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:19 pm

Tenez wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxkyaXPHmss

By deep, I am not talking about getting it right on the line like Djokovic or Murray.
But it was enough to bounce around midway between service line and baseline, spin up, and difficult to attack- after which Nadal tried to have a rally with his forehand in play.
No, we need clay here. Cause on grass he has no choice to stand bit closer and the ball comes slightly faster to him.

Lob.

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:24 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
Tenez wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxkyaXPHmss

By deep, I am not talking about getting it right on the line like Djokovic or Murray.
But it was enough to bounce around midway between service line and baseline, spin up, and difficult to attack- after which Nadal tried to have a rally with his forehand in play.
No, we need clay here. Cause on grass he has no choice to stand bit closer and the ball comes slightly faster to him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JaIgFua2wY

Kimmy, you'll have to work a lot harder....this clip shows same short returns.

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Post by HIS20RY on Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:28 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:
Tenez wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxkyaXPHmss

By deep, I am not talking about getting it right on the line like Djokovic or Murray.
But it was enough to bounce around midway between service line and baseline, spin up, and difficult to attack- after which Nadal tried to have a rally with his forehand in play.
No, we need clay here. Cause on grass he has no choice to stand bit closer and the ball comes slightly faster to him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JaIgFua2wY

Kimmy, you'll have to work a lot harder....this clip shows same short returns.
Absolutely not, just watch it.
Nadal's return are 3/4 length deep and fizzing up high onto Federer's BH.

Also he doesn't miss as many as these days.

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:32 pm

Vamos DAVEEEEEED!!!!! diva

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Post by Tenez on Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:36 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
Tenez wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxkyaXPHmss

By deep, I am not talking about getting it right on the line like Djokovic or Murray.
But it was enough to bounce around midway between service line and baseline, spin up, and difficult to attack- after which Nadal tried to have a rally with his forehand in play.
No, we need clay here. Cause on grass he has no choice to stand bit closer and the ball comes slightly faster to him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JaIgFua2wY
You are such of bad faith. You are indeed picking up the day federer did not turn up and Nadal had zero fear. Can't you simply pick any clay match?

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:44 pm

Is this the beginning of the tank? Whistle

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Post by Tenez on Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:45 pm

Poor volley from Nadal cost him that set.

the difference as I said between now and then is that players can keep on rallying without the need to go for broke. Ferrer is just keeping a good deep ball and places it well. In those long rallies the 35s rest between points were crucial in allowing him to keep the power and precision up. With shorter time between points, nadal loses power and precision and then panicks. I am very convinced this is where his confidence is affected.....knowing he can't rely on his muscles being refilled between points.

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:47 pm

Ferrer disappears to toilet and keeps Nadal waiting, priceless! Laugh

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:49 pm

Nadal's BH looks so much better these days...hope Kimmy can see it.

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Post by HIS20RY on Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:51 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Nadal's BH looks so much better these days...hope Kimmy can see it.
It's really not, he used to be abel to create so many angles.

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:52 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Nadal's BH looks so much better these days...hope Kimmy can see it.
It's really not, he used to be abel to create so many angles.

headhurts

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:59 pm

Ferrer moving inside the court after serve...he must be dead tired!

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Post by Tenez on Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:05 pm

You see, officially, Nadal has lost this match. Was warned twice but still goes over the 30s mark. Should be point penalty and match penalty.

...if referee were not scared to apply the rules....then Nadal woudl have to work very hard on his time taking issue.

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:05 pm

Tenez wrote:Poor volley from Nadal cost him that set.

the difference as I said between now and then is that players can keep on rallying without the need to go for broke. Ferrer is just keeping a good deep ball and places it well. In those long rallies the 35s rest between points were crucial in allowing him to keep the power and precision up. With shorter time between points, nadal loses power and precision and then panicks. I am very convinced this is where his confidence is affected.....knowing he can't rely on his muscles being refilled between points.

But the gutless umpire gifting him the match today...just two lousy warnings...disgusting!

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Post by HIS20RY on Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:06 pm

Tenez wrote:You see, officially, Nadal has lost this match.
No, he officially hasn't lost the match.
The rules are applied at the umpire's discretion, officially.

No one apart from you and a few others care about time between points.

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Post by Tenez on Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:08 pm

I am enjoying this actually.

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:09 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
Tenez wrote:You see, officially, Nadal has lost this match.
No, he officially hasn't lost the match.
The rules are applied at the umpire's discretion, officially.

No one apart from you and a few others care about time between points.

Woooow....just how badly wrong you are, and rotten like your hero...

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Post by HIS20RY on Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:11 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:
Tenez wrote:You see, officially, Nadal has lost this match.
No, he officially hasn't lost the match.
The rules are applied at the umpire's discretion, officially.

No one apart from you and a few others care about time between points.

Woooow....just how badly wrong you are, and rotten like your hero...
Don't worry, you were included in my list of 'few others'.

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Post by Tenez on Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:12 pm

who has more mental strength? nadal or Ferrer? I mean who is more resilient cause both are quite weak mentally but their resilience is remarkable.

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Post by luvsports! on Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:12 pm

Federer is a significant other.

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Post by Tenez on Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:13 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
Tenez wrote:You see, officially, Nadal has lost this match.
No, he officially hasn't lost the match.
The rules are applied at the umpire's discretion, officially.

No one apart from you and a few others care about time between points.

Well players do care as they have all spoken to apply the rule more strictly!

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:15 pm

Tenez wrote:I am enjoying this actually.
Me, too.
Nole must be aaaaahing with every sweaty grunt exchanged.

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Post by Tenez on Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:18 pm

how many warnings can you get? this is ridiculous. It's not serious!

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:30 pm

So...we have the "dream" semifinal tomorrow. 14.30.


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Post by Tenez on Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:31 pm

Nadal being angry at yet another referee! What a cheat!

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Post by HIS20RY on Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:31 pm

Nadal will be absolutely exhausted for the semi tomorrow.

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Post by HIS20RY on Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:32 pm

Tenez wrote:Nadal being angry at yet another referee! What a cheat!
Oh, get over it.

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:32 pm

Tenez wrote:Nadal being angry at yet another referee! What a cheat!

He'll run out of them the way he's going...if only Tio Toni could sit in that chair!

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Post by truffin1 on Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:37 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
Tenez wrote:You see, officially, Nadal has lost this match.
No, he officially hasn't lost the match.
The rules are applied at the umpire's discretion, officially.

No one apart from you and a few others care about time between points.

That really is a sad statement for you to make if you are a tennis fan and not just a nadal fanatic.

So why should anyone play by any rules of their sport if that's the attitude. Don't play within the rules of your sport, just pick and choose what you think is important..  great sportsmanship by him and his fans.   pathetic.


Last edited by truffin1 on Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by truffin1 on Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:38 pm

The Nadal I saw today will be lucky to lose 2 and 2 to dJoko.   Of course, he's capable of upping his level on clay, but he better do it quick.

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Post by HIS20RY on Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:39 pm

truffin1 wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:
Tenez wrote:You see, officially, Nadal has lost this match.
No, he officially hasn't lost the match.
The rules are applied at the umpire's discretion, officially.

No one apart from you and a few others care about time between points.

That really is a sad statement for you to make if you are a tennis fan and not just a nadal fanatic.

So why should anyone play by any rules of their sport if that's the attitude. Pick and choose what you think it important..    pathetic.
It's genuinely a non-issue, anti-Nadal fanatics moaning about a few seconds here and there.

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Post by HIS20RY on Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:40 pm

truffin1 wrote:The Nadal I saw today will be lucky to lose 2 and 2 to dJoko.   Of course, he's capable of upping his level on clay, but he better do it quick.
He'll be exhausted too, I can see Djokovic adding to his bagel count tomorrow.

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Post by truffin1 on Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:43 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
truffin1 wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:
Tenez wrote:You see, officially, Nadal has lost this match.
No, he officially hasn't lost the match.
The rules are applied at the umpire's discretion, officially.

No one apart from you and a few others care about time between points.

That really is a sad statement for you to make if you are a tennis fan and not just a nadal fanatic.

So why should anyone play by any rules of their sport if that's the attitude. Pick and choose what you think it important..    pathetic.
It's genuinely a non-issue, anti-Nadal fanatics moaning about a few seconds here and there.


If the players have repeatedly talked about it, and the ATP and higher ups have specifically made it a public point of saying it was a problem and they would be enforcing it more than in the past-- how can you say that with a straight face.

You really are sinking into a bizarre place as your idol falls.

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Post by HIS20RY on Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:49 pm

I'm fine with the ATP doing what they like, they make the rules and can sort out these technicalities.

What is funny is anti-Nadal fanatics who constantly are trying to find new things to denigrate Nadal with are now jumping on the hysterical bandwagon 'oh no Nadal is taking 1-3 seconds more than he should between points'.
Without a timer, try and do an activity for 25 seconds, and do it again for 27 seconds, and see if you can actually tell the difference.

These 1-2 seconds make no difference to the lives of any Nadal hater really, it's just another lollipop they can suck on in order to get through their daily 'find reasons to bash Nadal with' fest Winking

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Post by luvsports! on Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:51 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
truffin1 wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:
Tenez wrote:You see, officially, Nadal has lost this match.
No, he officially hasn't lost the match.
The rules are applied at the umpire's discretion, officially.

No one apart from you and a few others care about time between points.

That really is a sad statement for you to make if you are a tennis fan and not just a nadal fanatic.

So why should anyone play by any rules of their sport if that's the attitude. Pick and choose what you think it important..    pathetic.
It's genuinely a non-issue, anti-Nadal fanatics moaning about a few seconds here and there.

That's poor Kim. It's the rules. I get annoyed when all players do it. Delpo, Serena, monfils, murray, djoko, janowicz, azarenka and Nadal. 
Regardless of the player.

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Post by HIS20RY on Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:52 pm

luvsports! wrote:

That's poor Kim. It's the rules. I get annoyed when all players do it. Delpo, Serena, monfils, murray, djoko, janowicz, azarenka and Nadal. 
Regardless of the player.
OK, what I said didn't apply to everyone, you are actually reasonable.
You don't harp on about it like it's the apocalypse and you do call it out when other players do it too.

But for some I feel it's another anti-Nadal bandwagon to jump on.

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Post by luvsports! on Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:01 pm

Ok so away from them, do you think when a player does that it isn't bad?
Delpo is very bad with that. He gets away with it a lot by running to the net and falling on it or going near the crowd - which can be good but also masks it somewhat. 

Nadal is probably the most guilty of it on the atp tour from what i've seen - so much so other players say after they get penalised, "that wasn't as bad as rafa." (Tursunov).

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Post by HIS20RY on Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:13 pm

luvsports! wrote:Ok so away from them, do you think when a player does that it isn't bad?
I barely notice it to be honest. There are some matches where it shows Nadal is playing under, especially in 2013 I remember there were some matches where he averaged under 23. Others now are few seconds more than that... but to be honest unless they show the stats I have no idea either way. It's a few seconds here and there.

Murray made a very good point the other day, when your mind is so focused, it is difficult to know when is 25 seconds and when is 27 seconds. He asked the Sky Sports studio whether they would know when they've been interviewing a player for 25 or 27 seconds and they admitted they had no idea. I challenge that to anyone else too, do an activity which needs focus & attention, and try to stop yourself at exactly 25 seconds.
Nadal will always be there and there about (around 25 sec), because of his mild-OCD tics take up so much time.

I see it like in football when people take throw-ins, but they don't take the throw in from the exact precise position the ball went off the pitch, even though technically according to the rules they should do. To see people who clearly hate Nadal constantly harp on about it hysterically like the world is going to end is quite ironic- it's pretty obvious it's less to do with the 1-2 seconds extra and more to do with finding another stick to beat Nadal with.

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Post by truffin1 on Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:25 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:I'm fine with the ATP doing what they like, they make the rules and can sort out these technicalities.

What is funny is anti-Nadal fanatics who constantly are trying to find new things to denigrate Nadal with are now jumping on the hysterical bandwagon 'oh no Nadal is taking 1-3 seconds more than he should between points'.
Without a timer, try and do an activity for 25 seconds, and do it again for 27 seconds, and see if you can actually tell the difference.

These 1-2 seconds make no difference to the lives of any Nadal hater really, it's just another lollipop they can suck on in order to get through their daily 'find reasons to bash Nadal with' fest Winking


the umpires warned him when he went 1-3 seconds over?  or was it more?

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Post by HIS20RY on Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:27 pm

truffin1 wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:I'm fine with the ATP doing what they like, they make the rules and can sort out these technicalities.

What is funny is anti-Nadal fanatics who constantly are trying to find new things to denigrate Nadal with are now jumping on the hysterical bandwagon 'oh no Nadal is taking 1-3 seconds more than he should between points'.
Without a timer, try and do an activity for 25 seconds, and do it again for 27 seconds, and see if you can actually tell the difference.

These 1-2 seconds make no difference to the lives of any Nadal hater really, it's just another lollipop they can suck on in order to get through their daily 'find reasons to bash Nadal with' fest Winking


the umpires warned him when he went 1-3 seconds over?  or was it more?
I have no idea ? How could anyone possibly know the exact timings unless they had a timer or clock in their hand ?
It must be even harder for players who are so focused on the match to know the exact timings as well.

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Post by truffin1 on Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:29 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
truffin1 wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:I'm fine with the ATP doing what they like, they make the rules and can sort out these technicalities.

What is funny is anti-Nadal fanatics who constantly are trying to find new things to denigrate Nadal with are now jumping on the hysterical bandwagon 'oh no Nadal is taking 1-3 seconds more than he should between points'.
Without a timer, try and do an activity for 25 seconds, and do it again for 27 seconds, and see if you can actually tell the difference.

These 1-2 seconds make no difference to the lives of any Nadal hater really, it's just another lollipop they can suck on in order to get through their daily 'find reasons to bash Nadal with' fest Winking


the umpires warned him when he went 1-3 seconds over?  or was it more?
I have no idea ? How could anyone possibly know the exact timings unless they had a timer or clock in their hand ?
It must be even harder for players who are so focused on the match to know the exact timings as well.


Then why are you screaming about haters talking about 1-3 seconds  and givng examples of 27 seconds vs. 25?  If you don't know that to be the case in this match, you are just making up numbers to make other people look silly - when it very  well could be he was over by more.

I honestly didn't see the parts where he was warned so don't know what was going on, but I've never seen umpires warn him unless it's way over.

In the USA coverage- they put the timer on him often- and I've seen him hit 40 seconds or more.  I  don't know if that's the case here, but to pretend he's not breaking it by a lot at times is very dishonest.

I know Courier was talking yesterday about Nadal showing very poor oncourt behavior when he did something in that match.  I don't know if that was time limit or something else either.


It's also absolutely not true that a top athlete doesn't have an idea of time limits.  sure a second or two might get you, but they know beyond that.
Basketball players have 5 seconds to throw the ball in and almost always call for a timeout before the violiation.  10 seconds to shoot a free throw, never go over, 10 seconds to take the ball from far court to half court and never go over.   top boxers in a 3 minute round can get their head pounded in and still know when the last 20 seconds of the round are coming up and will start flurrying. Ali was famous for this and I saw it first hand many time.. He knew exactly when the end of the round was near even though there was nothing visible to tell him that.... so he could get some extra flurries in and outpoint the opponent.

It's again shows you naivety when it comes to top athletes to not undertand they  have a good idea what they can and can't get done before the shot clock runs out.  

Did he go over by more than a few seconds as your first claimed today? If so, then he was consciously cheating.

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Post by HIS20RY on Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:15 pm

truffin wrote:Then why are you screaming about haters talking about 1-3 seconds and givng examples of 27 seconds vs. 25? If you don't know that to be the case in this match, you are just making up numbers to make other people look silly - when it very well could be he was over by more.
I don't think it was that much over, but I've seen him penalised before for 27-28 seconds.
Again, my point to Luvsports @5:13 still stands.

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Post by Tenez on Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:19 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:It's genuinely a non-issue, anti-Nadal fanatics moaning about a few seconds here and there.
If it is just a few secs here and there why taking them in the first place and argue with the all the referees?

It's vital seconds! Only fans can't see it. It's OCD right? Laugh

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Post by HIS20RY on Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:23 pm

Tenez wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:It's genuinely a non-issue, anti-Nadal fanatics moaning about a few seconds here and there.
If it is just a few secs here and there why taking them in the first place and argue with the all the referees?
Very simple. Firstly has has OCD tics, which take time and mean he'll be around 25 seconds or so anyway without making a conscious effort.
And as Murray pointed out, when you're doing a mental activity which you need to focus on, it's impossible to know the margins of a few seconds here and there unless you have a timer or stop watch in front of you.

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Post by Tenez on Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:24 pm

truffin1 wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:I'm fine with the ATP doing what they like, they make the rules and can sort out these technicalities.

What is funny is anti-Nadal fanatics who constantly are trying to find new things to denigrate Nadal with are now jumping on the hysterical bandwagon 'oh no Nadal is taking 1-3 seconds more than he should between points'.
Without a timer, try and do an activity for 25 seconds, and do it again for 27 seconds, and see if you can actually tell the difference.

These 1-2 seconds make no difference to the lives of any Nadal hater really, it's just another lollipop they can suck on in order to get through their daily 'find reasons to bash Nadal with' fest Winking


the umpires warned him when he went 1-3 seconds over?  or was it more?
Nadal got 3 warnings on today's match alone!!! what's the point of 3 warnings? why not 5? or 10?

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Post by Tenez on Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:26 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
Tenez wrote:
Kim Jong-Un wrote:It's genuinely a non-issue, anti-Nadal fanatics moaning about a few seconds here and there.
If it is just a few secs here and there why taking them in the first place and argue with the all the referees?
Very simple. Firstly has has OCD tics, which take time and mean he'll be around 25 seconds or so anyway without making a conscious effort.
And as Murray pointed out, when you're doing a mental activity which you need to focus on, it's impossible to know the margins of a few seconds here and there unless you have a timer or stop watch in front of you.

Frankly, you have reached a comical level of credulity!

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:49 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
Very simple. Firstly has has OCD tics, which take time and mean he'll be around 25 seconds or so anyway without making a conscious effort.
And as Murray pointed out, when you're doing a mental activity which you need to focus on, it's impossible to know the margins of a few seconds here and there unless you have a timer or stop watch in front of you.

From what you said here, looks like you haven't played much sport.

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Post by HIS20RY on Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:00 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
From what you said here, looks like you haven't played much sport.
Well it's yet another wrong observation from you then.

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Post by luvsports! on Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:22 pm

I would say though Kim, no offence, that you are too much of a fan at times. 
Leaping to defend Rafa at any turn.

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Post by truffin1 on Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:00 pm

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
From what you said here, looks like you haven't played much sport.
Well it's yet another wrong observation from you then.

They are right though Kim.  I tried to give you examples as well.   Even if Murray said what you say-  I don't know what context that was in or whether he was really going into detail or even being truthful, but I have worked closely with and been around hundreds of professional athletes over a 30 + career, fighters, nba, nfl-- and they all are extremely conscious of time limits.    An NFL Qb- has a clock in his head where he releases within 3 seconds.. I've seen tapes of Manning, Brees literly say to the half second how quick their release was in drills.  You don't think a tennis player knows how long 25 seconds is if a QB can be conscious of a few seconds?  300 lb men running full speed at QB;s and these guys are conscious of it.  Boxing, NbA, NFL-   top athtletes know exactly how much time they need or can take for something. 

It's more than ludicrous for you to even suggest Nadal is not aware of the time limits.  Even he has said before he knows he takes too much time.

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