ATP 1000: Miami

noleisthebest wrote:Are you pulling my leg or you really can't see?

Well yes, obviously I can see in practice Just find it frustrating that some players have the nerve to complain.

summerblues wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:Are you pulling my leg or you really can't see?

Well yes, obviously I can see in practice Just find it frustrating that some players have the nerve to complain.

And what does that tell you about what goes on behind the closed doors, say in Larry Ellison's mansion for example......

noleisthebest wrote:
And what does that tell you about what goes on behind the closed doors, say in Larry Ellison's mansion for example......

Lots and lots of cupboards.

I never thought the day would come and feel bad but....

VAMOS DAVEEEEED!!!!!!!!!!

LOL, what is it, 6 breaks in the last 7 games?

noleisthebest wrote:And what does that tell you about what goes on behind the closed doors, say in Larry Ellison's mansion for example......

What should it tell me? That there are 10 players that cannot wait to wipe the floor with Rafa? I like you guys and I would want to post here more frequently but you can make this place rather boring. Sure, there are valid reasons to criticise Rafa, but you guys just look for the ways to criticise him everywhere - well beyond reason.

Very poor final...there were so many better matches in this tournament.

summerblues wrote:LOL, what is it, 6 breaks in the last 7 games?

7 in 8 now? David looks so pathetic right now. I am not sure whether it is more fatigue or choking. He seems to be playing a bit better in his return games, which points to choking more than fatigue.

summerblues wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:And what does that tell you about what goes on behind the closed doors, say in Larry Ellison's mansion for example......

What should it tell me? That there are 10 players that cannot wait to wipe the floor with Rafa? I like you guys and I would want to post here more frequently but you can make this place rather boring. Sure, there are valid reasons to criticise Rafa, but you guys just look for the ways to criticise him everywhere - well beyond reason.

that's because you can't see what bad influence he has had on tennis.

summerblues wrote: but you guys just look for the ways to criticise him everywhere - well beyond reason.

How dare you say that.
This forum is very objective in its bashing of Nadal.

noleisthebest wrote:

summerblues wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:And what does that tell you about what goes on behind the closed doors, say in Larry Ellison's mansion for example......

What should it tell me? That there are 10 players that cannot wait to wipe the floor with Rafa? I like you guys and I would want to post here more frequently but you can make this place rather boring. Sure, there are valid reasons to criticise Rafa, but you guys just look for the ways to criticise him everywhere - well beyond reason.

that's because you can't see what bad influence he has had on tennis.

Yes, SB must have missed the dark clouds of bad influence.
I've noticed Murray has brought his water bottles to the match- just another example of a terrible tradition which Nadal started.

noleisthebest wrote:that's because you can't see what bad influence he has had on tennis.

nitb, just look at the "10 guys waiting to wipe the floor with him" statement, that is enough to see that there is something irrational about the way you approach him.

We are midway through this set (at least) and we have not yet seen a hold.

0-15....

At laaaast! Ferrer holds.

Imagine if masters 1000 were best of 5....

Wow, David holds. He now just needs to break Andy twice more and he is home.

Murray serving for the match. Expecting his ultra aggressive self. Will the serve "obey"?

And it's Ferrer that shows some guts here...2 BPs, 2nd serve....? One gone, one left....VAMOS DAVEEEEED

Murray really looking like a joke stretching his upper body there...all that training in Miami and he can't even pull off a 3 setter without cramping?

David just needs to break one more time. He could not do it at 4:3, surely he will not miss his chance now?

Murray' moaning because Ferrer's getting a massage. It's not a MTO, what's the big deal?
Pathetic....
C'mon David, break him and take that title!!!!!!

Tennis may be rubbish, but the drama is great

Ferrer's good, but just lacks that bit of shot selecition sharpness. All he cares about is to get to the ball and have enough time to send the ball back in safely, although, he is going for the corners now, still a bit of guile would've won this match long time ago.

Match point Ferrer!
VAMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSS

....but blows it by stopping play and losing the challenge. Tie-break!

Murray's whacking that forehand so hard his arms are going to fall off any minute!

Ferrer drops to the ground trying to hit a sliced backhand....not good.

Ferrer limping to service line 1:6 down....

Congrats to Andy on the win. Not the best of matches but, as you said, at least it had drama.

summerblues wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:that's because you can't see what bad influence he has had on tennis.

nitb, just look at the "10 guys waiting to wipe the floor with him" statement, that is enough to see that there is something irrational about the way you approach him.

I still stand by that statement based on what I saw in Chile which is when I roughly made it.

noleisthebest wrote:

summerblues wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:that's because you can't see what bad influence he has had on tennis.

nitb, just look at the "10 guys waiting to wipe the floor with him" statement, that is enough to see that there is something irrational about the way you approach him.

I still stand by that statement based on what I saw in Chile which is when I roughly made it.

LOL.

noleisthebest wrote:I still stand by that statement based on what I saw in Chile which is when I roughly made it.

Which I would say just confirms that you do not judge matters around him rationally. Also, if Nole had come back from a seven month layoff and put in a similar performance, there is no way you would have said there were 10 guys who could not wait to wipe the floor with him.

And there is just too much stuff of that nature here (and not enough of anything else) - at best I can interpret it along the lines of "you guys do not like Nadal, perhaps for valid reasons, but that dislike then also spills into irrational criticisms".

Congrats to Murray a well deserved no 2

My perceptions from the final. Slower surface and low bouncing perfectly suited to Feru. Crowds also stood behind Feru likewise very humid and hot conditions. So, I can not see better conditions for Feru to win a Master on hc, but that is a life.

Andy was more at the front the court, he run less then Feru, which affected David in the end of the match.

Despite the match was absolutely close, Murray showed his a bit improved mental toughness. So, it seems to be that Lendl gave him that bit, which he needed and with a proper dose of luck he did it.

Cogratulation to both players for a great fight and Murray to move at no. 2, deservedly.

What should we take from that match. It is obvious that slowing down of US hard courts brought exhausting and evened the chances all great ground hitters. The matches are so long as on clay, the space for the variaty became thinner.

If the conditions stay on hc the same, then I see that players will more prioritize their tournays and will more concentrate on some than on another ones. The ball speed difference between hc and clay is none except that standard clay condition generate a higher bounce. So my predictions for clay are without any change, Nole an Mori favorites for all with a decent distant from others. Quite big challenge up to Nole again.

paulcz wrote:Nole an Mori favorites for all with a decent distant from others. Quite big challenge up to Nole again.

Yes, that is my best guess too. I would like to see both of them play well on clay and see who wins then. I think Nole would have a decent chance; he did it (even made it look easy) in 2011 but then could not repeat last year. My take on it is that last year's results were more due to Nole's poor performance rather than Nadal's improvement, but some would disagree and I could be wrong there - it is no coincidence that Nadal has won as much as he did on clay.

summerblues wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:Interesting. I've read somewhere, that he's past his peak.

I do not know about being past his peak just yet, but traditionally tennis players tail off after about age 27. So that would give him somewhere between 1-2 more years. Some players last longer, but it is certainly not a given - more an exception than a rule.

The last few years the age at the top seems to have advanced a bit but I do not quite buy into the theory that we will now be seeing massive shifts in players top performance ages. I would definitely think that three more years of peak Andy (and Nole, and Rafa) is about as much as we can realistically expect.

Told you SB to throw those stats out of the window nowadays. It fitted with players winning slams at 18 and 20. Different ball game nowadays.

summerblues wrote:

paulcz wrote:Nole an Mori favorites for all with a decent distant from others. Quite big challenge up to Nole again.

Yes, that is my best guess too. I would like to see both of them play well on clay and see who wins then. I think Nole would have a decent chance; he did it (even made it look easy) in 2011 but then could not repeat last year. My take on it is that last year's results were more due to Nole's poor performance rather than Nadal's improvement, but some would disagree and I could be wrong there - it is no coincidence that Nadal has won as much as he did on clay.

The difference between 2011 and 2012 is, that till 2011 there was nobody who thought that somebody could beat Nadal on clay in a style. So in 2012 the expectations on Nole to win were so high and then dissapointment that he did not do were still bigger. Then the game consistence can disappear all of a sudden. The pressure from on Nole was too high and mainly from this reason he did not feel well during clay season and summer.
Nole should benefit from his lighter body and overall more active approach. It is sure that Mori's band is aware of that and that they will ask for a bit harder balls at RG this year. Now Fed is going down with his form and Murray, Delpo, Berd neither anybody from youngsters are not enough to compete with Mori on clay of BO5.
Mori in IW showed that he has improved his serve and tries to hit more flatter/harder. He will just mix up his moonballs when on return and try to shorten rallies when serving. It is necessary to say that only way how to keep his possition on clay.

paulcz wrote: Nole should benefit from his lighter body and overall more active approach. It is sure that Mori's band is aware of that and that they will ask for a bit harder balls at RG this year. Now Fed is going down with his form and Murray, Delpo, Berd neither anybody from youngsters are not enough to compete with Mori on clay of BO5.
Mori in IW showed that he has improved his serve and tries to hit more flatter/harder. He will just mix up his moonballs when on return and try to shorten rallies when serving. It is necessary to say that only way how to keep his possition on clay.

I have noticed that Nole has lost a bit of his physical strength with the weight loss.Nadal went the opposite way.

How that's going to face off on clay will depend a lot on Novak's new, more attacking style of play and flatter hitting he is starting to (re)introduce.His serving is also beginning to look sharper. He is clearly working on it trying to make a weapon of it, like Fed's old dominating days when he was getting lots of free points off it.
It is not going to be easy for him to outlast Nadal in 2013, but game-wise hecan still outplay him if he regains his confidence and form for RG. One clay Masters1000 will be very important. Ideally Rome.

Monte Carlo would also be perfect and very useful for strategic reasons but not essential.

I also think that Delpo has a better chance on clay than Murray. Ferrer is very good at exposing other players' limitations and he did it very well with Murray today, who was barely able to beat him merely with physical superiority and nothing else.

summerblues wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:I still stand by that statement based on what I saw in Chile which is when I roughly made it.

Which I would say just confirms that you do not judge matters around him rationally. Also, if Nole had come back from a seven month layoff and put in a similar performance, there is no way you would have said there were 10 guys who could not wait to wipe the floor with him.

And there is just too much stuff of that nature here (and not enough of anything else) - at best I can interpret it along the lines of "you guys do not like Nadal, perhaps for valid reasons, but that dislike then also spills into irrational criticisms"

What a patronising and disappointing statement.

noleisthebest wrote:

summerblues wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:I still stand by that statement based on what I saw in Chile which is when I roughly made it.

Which I would say just confirms that you do not judge matters around him rationally. Also, if Nole had come back from a seven month layoff and put in a similar performance, there is no way you would have said there were 10 guys who could not wait to wipe the floor with him.

And there is just too much stuff of that nature here (and not enough of anything else) - at best I can interpret it along the lines of "you guys do not like Nadal, perhaps for valid reasons, but that dislike then also spills into irrational criticisms"

What a patronising and disappointing statement.

Yes, I share your huge disappointment at this.

I'm sure you would have been the first to confirm that Nole's game is now obsolete and there were 10 guys who could thrash him.

.

summerblues wrote: that dislike then also spills into irrational criticisms".

What? Where on earth do you come up with these outlandish and ridiculous claims SB?

The way you speak is as if everyone on this forum is obsessed in hating and spewing abuse at Nadal, frankly that's an absolutely disgusting allegation. I'm really really offended by that. Oh, by the way, did I forget to mention it's hugely patronising.

If you want any proof that this forum isn't obsessed with Nadal have a look at the tennis page, and try to find any thread which has gone over 1 page and has no mention of Nadal or his big bad influence.
Wait, what do you mean you can't find any? Oh, you must have missed them then.

And Wilson, I also find it hugely disturbing that you try and talk about double standards. You don't agree with everyone that Nadal is the evil of tennis, and suddenly you expect everyone to give equal treatment to both Nadal and Djokovic (or anyone else)? Well that's just ridiculous double standards from you I'm afraid.

noleisthebest wrote:

summerblues wrote: Also, if Nole had come back from a seven month layoff and put in a similar performance, there is no way you would have said there were 10 guys who could not wait to wipe the floor with him.

What a patronising and disappointing statement.

It did not mean to be patronising (nor, of course, disappointing ) and I do not know why you see it that way. You like to pride yourself on "call spade a spade" attitude, so I think the focus should be on whether or not the statement was correct rather than on its tone anyway. Are you suggesting that in the circumstances I described you would have predicted people "wiping the floor" with Djokovic? Including the choice of words? Let's say I doubt it.

wilson, not everyone on here shares the same views in regards to nadal but all you have done recently is just slate every single one of us.
What is the point? If you don't like it just leave, nobody is forcing you to stay.

wilson_nxt wrote:Summerblues,... ....why are you wasting time...

Hah, a reasonable question I suppose. There is a bit of history around it. Whatever their style, I believe the founders of this forum had been somewhat mistreated on another forum. If they are now trying to run a forum, I certainly do not hold it against them, and am happy to chime in. But it is true that I have found the way they are running this forum a tad disappointing, and thus have not been posting here all that much lately.

wilson_nxt wrote:Summerblues, you seem a balanced poster - why are you wasting time posting on a forum that openly calls Nadal "moribundus", accuses him openly of PED taking (I'm amazed this place hasnt been sued to the hilt yet, I know it's been mentioned on other forums) and other forum members go along gladly with all of it. The levels of hypocrisy on here are staggering - Djokovic can do no wrong, Nadal is the death of tennis and all reasonable, balanced posters are meant to feel awkward because they dont share the bitter view of Nadal haters. Good luck to you on here.

And why are you wasting you time where trying to explain to the world what kind of staggering hypocrisy goes on here? Are you the next Jesus incarnation trying to save the innocent world from the corrupt OTF? If OTF hasn't been sued as yet, what are you waiting for? Why don't you gather your b*lls and sue it. Who is stopping you?

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

wilson_nxt wrote:Summerblues, you seem a balanced poster - why are you wasting time posting on a forum that openly calls Nadal "moribundus", accuses him openly of PED taking (I'm amazed this place hasnt been sued to the hilt yet, I know it's been mentioned on other forums) and other forum members go along gladly with all of it. The levels of hypocrisy on here are staggering - Djokovic can do no wrong, Nadal is the death of tennis and all reasonable, balanced posters are meant to feel awkward because they dont share the bitter view of Nadal haters. Good luck to you on here.

And why are you wasting you time where trying to explain to the world what kind of staggering hypocrisy goes on here? Are you the next Jesus incarnation trying to save the innocent world from the corrupt OTF? If OTF hasn't been sued as yet, what are you waiting for? Why don't you gather your b*lls and sue it. Who is stopping you?

Rotla, my view on him and similar ones is the same. These are not only able to discuss things in a standard way, are not able to present their arguments and only thing they know it is to carp everything around.
It is far better to have a discussion with less people and speak straightforwardly about tennis stuff on a good level without beating about the bush.
Some defenders of Moribundus permanently speak about hipocrisy. These do not know what they speak about. That is an absolute nonsense. Our critics of Mori is based on so many facts, that everybody must admit that it is in a certain way pleadable. So, these who claim that hypocricy rules on OTF are just hypocrites themselves. It is really worthless to explain them whatever, neither about tennis nor anything else. Only reasonable thing that we can do to them is to wave them goodbye.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

wilson_nxt wrote:Summerblues, you seem a balanced poster - why are you wasting time posting on a forum that openly calls Nadal "moribundus", accuses him openly of PED taking (I'm amazed this place hasnt been sued to the hilt yet, I know it's been mentioned on other forums) and other forum members go along gladly with all of it. The levels of hypocrisy on here are staggering - Djokovic can do no wrong, Nadal is the death of tennis and all reasonable, balanced posters are meant to feel awkward because they dont share the bitter view of Nadal haters. Good luck to you on here.

And why are you wasting you time where trying to explain to the world what kind of staggering hypocrisy goes on here? Are you the next Jesus incarnation trying to save the innocent world from the corrupt OTF? If OTF hasn't been sued as yet, what are you waiting for? Why don't you gather your b*lls and sue it. Who is stopping you?

Wilson is "dancing with Wolves". After having massacred all the indians and parked the reamining few, one needs to identify oneself with the nice guy who tried to save them. He is the "balanced" poster.

.