ATP 1000: Indian Wells

If I may, I think I'll repost my earlier comment, which got lost as it went onto the next page on another thread:

NITB, who do you think exactly will want to post here?

No offence, but this forum is seen as a bit of a laughing stock. Full of smug radical conspiracy theorists who are convinced they are right in everything they say.
You guys take a shot at 606v2, but in reality is there is a much wider variety of posters there. More Federer fans than Nadal fans, but on the whole there is a representation of all the players.
OK here there are some more moderate posters (eg SB, Luvsports) but they don't post here that regularly, but in general most on this forum are very very narrow minded and see any other point of view as disgraceful and incomprehensible. Of course this can be applied to many posters (including myself), but when you have one forum where basically everyone has this same extreme opinion it magnifies this feeling.
And let's not even get into the hilariously bad predictions made by some here, of course after the event Tenez, as he always does, launches a strong defence outlining some 'unforeseeable external factor' which is the only thing which made his prediction go wrong; and you guys then smugly continue as if you were right all along.

I have shown some on v2 this forum, not telling them to join (as this is against the house rules there), but asking them what they think. You'd be surprised. Even the Federer fans on v2 who I think get on well with Tenez were quite negative- the response I got was one that indicated that this forum was a 'mini lunatic asylum.'

And I can see where they're coming from. I think SB posted a post here with some comment in the past few months, looking back at them now they do provide amusement I admit. And look at this thread: https://ourtennisforum.forumotion.co.uk/t232-points-tracker-ao-2013 4 comments in and you're all off...

I like this forum as it's quite funny I think, but I can see why others may not like it. That's just my opinion, of course none of you will agree.

noleisthebest wrote:you do realise how biased and condescending you are in this statement, don't you?

It was an honest opinion.

noleisthebest wrote:You have to have a dividing and polarising topic for any successful argumentative debate. Otherwise it's just bland and safe beating about the bush, never losing face and always being right.
There is nothing wrong in not always being right, you know...

Yes, but argument has to have at least some hope of being right before it can be polarizing. I do not mind debating topics where I can be wrong. For example, I think that if Nole and Rafa play on clay and each plays their best, Nole will have the upper hand. I am aware that is a minority opinion and I may be wrong, I have no problem with that. But I cannot bring myself to debate whether or not there are plenty of players out there ready to wipe the floor with Rafa. And that is certainly not because I am afraid of being wrong .

Also for a debate, you need to have two sides.
We rarely get that here, let's be honest if I try to argue Nadal is a good player, and I am up against 6 others who all hate him with their guts and think he's evil... where can I get?

Even the debates with LF don't work here, as she is has a interesting but different style of debating... where she makes her points very subtle. Even to debate against her takes quite a lot of research and patience to understand the subtle points... people without this patience just get annoyed and dismiss her at once, this is what happens here.

Anyway SB, how are you doing?

Larry Ellison wrote:Anyway SB, how are you doing?

Swamped at work the last few weeks but hopefully ready to recover. Have not even seen Miami draw yet, and we are well into the tournament now.

summerblues wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:you do realise how biased and condescending you are in this statement, don't you?

It was an honest opinion.

noleisthebest wrote:You have to have a dividing and polarising topic for any successful argumentative debate. Otherwise it's just bland and safe beating about the bush, never losing face and always being right.
There is nothing wrong in not always being right, you know...

Yes, but argument has to have at least some hope of being right before it can be polarizing. I do not mind debating topics where I can be wrong. For example, I think that if Nole and Rafa play on clay and each plays their best, Nole will have the upper hand. I am aware that is a minority opinion and I may be wrong, I have no problem with that. But I cannot bring myself to debate whether or not there are plenty of players out there ready to wipe the floor with Rafa. And that is certainly not because I am afraid of being wrong .

Are you saying that claiming Nadal would struggle to stay in top 10 after 7 months of "inujry", having to defend entire clay season (probably min 5500 points) never had a chance of being true?
I'd say claiming he would sweep all in his way would have been far more outrageous.

I still think on normal hard courts at least 5 players would wipe floor with Nadal right now: Djokovic, Murray (healthy) Federer, Del Potro, Tsonga, even Gulbis.

Where were you with any kind of opinions during his absence or return?
I must say I was a bit surprised with your gleeful outburst in that post a few days ago, as if you waited all this time just to tell us how wrong some here were.
I must admit I never even have the need to rake through who said what and drag it out to rub it in their face. What's the point in that?
When did I come out and tell everyone how clever I was for working out Nole was the best....that how childish it all looks to come out like that and do it....
Why not be positive and say something good, these days it's so hard to compliment somebody and so easy to criticise, as I have been repeating it often recently: so much pain, so little love.

summerblues wrote:

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Oh SB , this is what any tennis forum is all about.Talking, discussing speculating and predicting. No one knows the future, so its all guess work. We sometimes make wishful thinking. Sometimes it comes out right and other times totally rubbish. This is all the fun about a tennis-forum.

Yes rotla, wishful thinking is fine but why not keep it within some limits. I would not complain if Nadal were out of top 10 come Wimbledon but that was just never in the cards. I enjoy debates, but detachment from reality in some of that stuff makes it unfit for an interesting discussion. For goodness’ sake, am I supposed to be attracted to a discussion on whether Nadal’s game is obsolete?

It is ok if some of the more “fanciful” ideas make their way on the forum here and there, but there is a critical mass of them here, to the point where the overall tone of the forum is colored by them. At least in the context of hard facts – such as predictions of Rafa’s drop out of top 10 – one can measure their accuracy. But there are plenty of topics where the ultimate answers are not so easily measurable. If the forum undertakes their discussion with the same level of intellectual honesty given to the prediction of Rafa’s demise upon return, it is even more difficult there to have a meaningful discussion on those topics.

I think you take a very odd event and use it to make us look bad. The fact that Nadal won IW is certainly an extremely odd event that surprised a few and not least Toni. Wilander himself said that Nadal woudl not get back to the top, do you think he was wishful thinking as well? If anything we woudl have looked foolish had we said Nadal woudl win IW and you certainly did not predict it either.

So I don't think it's quite fair to take another very weird achievement from Nadal, putting further in question the credibility of his injuries (at least there this forum is very consistent and most likely onto something), certainly helped by having courts designed for him and having his 3 toughest opponents fighting it off on the other side of the draw.

You are also ignoring what I said about the new generation taking over soon...just to see Delpo beating Murray and Djoko back to back....and nearly creaming Nadal in the process before exhaustion finally hit him. You did not see that one coming either I am sure.

So glad to see that like us you have a very one sided view of tennis and I guess that is what keeps you posting here.

I think you take a very odd event and use it to make us look bad.

Lol. How naughty of SB.
The reality is of course, you've made so many outlandish and radical claims that have been shown to be untrue it's nearly unreal.

You are also ignoring what I said about the new generation taking over soon...just to see Delpo beating Murray and Djoko back to back

Nice try... but I'm pretty sure you were talking about Raonic when you said new generation...
Del Potro is only 1 year younger then Murray and Djokovic, and won the US Open 3-4 years ago.

Why not be positive and say something good, these days it's so hard to compliment somebody and so easy to criticise, as I have been repeating it often recently: so much pain, so little love.

Considering the amount of relentless criticism you put Nadal's way (was it you or Tenez who recently said one of your main reasons for watching tennis was to see Nadal lose?), this statement is mildly amusing.

I myself don't mind a bit of Nadal bashing; it's quite amusing for me. But you can't expect all to have the same view.

Larry Ellison wrote:

I think you take a very odd event and use it to make us look bad.

Lol. How naughty of SB.
The reality is of course, you've made so many outlandish and radical claims that have been shown to be untrue it's nearly unreal.

Oh yeah? such? That Nadal's knee injuries are a joke?

Tenez wrote:

Larry Ellison wrote:

I think you take a very odd event and use it to make us look bad.

Lol. How naughty of SB.
The reality is of course, you've made so many outlandish and radical claims that have been shown to be untrue it's nearly unreal.

Oh yeah? such?

Basically every single prediction you've made on Nadal's imminent decline...
how many of those have there been?

These are the ones I can remember:
-In the end of 2011 you said the surface Nadal will struggle to deal with Djokovic is clay.
-Umm... Indian Wells 2013.
-Raonic to win before Murray at USO 2012
-The youngsters have barely made any impact as you predicted they would
-Indian Wells 2012- before Fed-Nadal semi.
-How bad did Nadal's clay court season in 2012 turn out?
-Djokovic will never beat Nadal again (you said this after his wins in a row).

Do you want some more? These are just the ones I can remember from the top of my head. Every time you have a ridiculously convenient excuse.

Tenez wrote:That Nadal's knee injuries are a joke?

You edited that in before I wrote my post, let me address it now.

Did you watch him in Chile? His movement seen uncomfortable, there were a few moments when you could tell his movement was very limited.
Then it gradually improved... as it would.

Let's see how it copes from now though, it may play up again.

.

[quote="Larry Ellison"]

Tenez wrote:

Larry Ellison wrote:

I think you take a very odd event and use it to make us look bad.

Lol. How naughty of SB.
The reality is of course, you've made so many outlandish and radical claims that have been shown to be untrue it's nearly unreal.

Oh yeah? such?

Basically every single prediction you've made on Nadal's imminent decline...
how many of those have there been?

These are the ones I can remember:
-In the end of 2011 you said the surface Nadal will struggle to deal with Djokovic is clay.
I maintain that. He had a bad patch on clay last year but Nadal was only saved by the rain break at the FO. He was allowed another blood transfusion overnight!..probably what cost him the silent ban.

-Raonic to win before Murray at USO 2012

Hopefully you have not come here lie at every turn of phrase. I did not say that. Certainly not in those terms.
-The youngsters have barely made any impact as you predicted they would

Same as above. I did not say now. I am not stupid. I said within 2 years.


-Djokovic will never beat Nadal again (you said this after his wins in a row).

Yes....And I think beside the strange clay season 2012....I am right.

Do you want some more? These are just the ones I can remember from the top of my head. Every time you have a ridiculously convenient excuse.

Watch your words.

noleisthebest wrote:Where were you with any kind of opinions during his absence or return?

Huh? I may not have posted much here but as it happens I did post my estimates of where I though Rafa would be. They may turn out to be right, or they may turn out to be wrong, but at least they have some attachment to reality.

My "outburst" actually was not gleeful. You may find it hard to believe but I have rooted for this forum to succeed, and I still do, partly because I think that throwing you out of v2 was unfair. Also, I am no fan of Rafa. In his entire career there was exactly one match where I did not root against him.

But I do think - and very strongly so - that a big portion of the debates on this forum is heavily colored by wishful thinking, and I think it would be better for the forum if it were less so. I did not think I would have any hope to convince you of it on any of the "soft data" topics but I thought that maybe listing how hugely wrong some of the predictions were could make you stop, and consider whether maybe the forum has indeed steered too far away from reality.

summerblues wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:Where were you with any kind of opinions during his absence or return?

Huh? I may not have posted much here but as it happens I did post my estimates of where I though Rafa would be. They may turn out to be right, or they may turn out to be wrong, but at least they have some attachment to reality.

My "outburst" actually was not gleeful. You may find it hard to believe but I have rooted for this forum to succeed, and I still do, partly because I think that throwing you out of v2 was unfair. Also, I am no fan of Rafa. In his entire career there was exactly one match where I did not root against him.

But I do think - and very strongly so - that a big portion of the debates on this forum is heavily colored by wishful thinking, and I think it would be better for the forum if it were less so. I did not think I would have any hope to convince you of it on any of the "soft data" topics but I thought that maybe listing how hugely wrong some of the predictionswerecould make you stop, and consider whether maybe the forum has indeed steered too far away from reality.

I suppose you and I have very different mindsets and approach to most things.

Playing safe doesn't do anything for me, I have always been 100% behind my convictions even if the rest of the world thought differently. I value courage very highly, but understand that not everyone is courageous.
Just like when you play a game and go for it full on, as opposed to defending what you may lose.

Tenez wrote:

Larry Ellison wrote:Basically every single prediction you've made on Nadal's imminent decline...
how many of those have there been?

These are the ones I can remember:
-In the end of 2011 you said the surface Nadal will struggle to deal with Djokovic is clay.

I maintain that. He had a bad patch on clay last year but Nadal was only saved by the rain break at the FO. He was allowed another blood transfusion overnight!..probably what cost him the silent ban.

Oh cmon... you can't be serious here.
He beat him in Rome in straights, was 2 sets to one up when the rain fell. On clay 1 break is not much.

Tenez wrote:

Larry Ellison wrote:-Raonic to win before Murray at USO 2012

Hopefully you have not come here lie at every turn of phrase. I did not say that. Certainly not in those terms.

I'm lying am I?
Hmmm: https://ourtennisforum.forumotion.co.uk/t93-us-open-2012-matches-of-the-day-day-8
You predicted Raonic to win (in the first comment!), unless you spelt Murray really really badly.
Here as well: https://ourtennisforum.forumotion.co.uk/t90p50-us-open-2012-atp-matches-of-the-day-day-6 @9:59

Tenez wrote:-

Larry Ellison wrote:The youngsters have barely made any impact as you predicted they would

Same as above. I did not say now. I am not stupid. I said within 2 years.

Ok... to be fair I remember you saying it in 2011 so we have to wait until the end of the year...

Tenez wrote:-

Larry Ellison wrote:Djokovic will never beat Nadal again (you said this after his wins in a row).

Yes....And I think beside the strange clay season 2012....I am right.

The only time they have played after prediction is the 2012 clay season....
That's got to be the best excuse I've ever heard. World's most convenient caveat, hey?
'I predict that Player A will beat Player B everytime they play unless there is a strange season where Player B beats Player A'

Tenez wrote:

Larry Ellison wrote:Do you want some more? These are just the ones I can remember from the top of my head. Every time you have a ridiculously convenient excuse.

Watch your words.

I'll watch them very carefully.

Larry,

have you actually ever made any predictions apart from that after Sunday comes Monday....

noleisthebest wrote:Playing safe doesn't do anything for me, I have always been 100% behind my convictions even if the rest of the world thought differently. I value courage very highly, but understand that not everyone is courageous.

I think you are grossly misunderstanding if you think this is the issue at hand. But, obviosuly, you think otherwise.

So agree to disagree it will be, sadly.

noleisthebest wrote:Larry,

have you actually ever made any predictions apart from that after Sunday comes Monday....

I predicted that Nadal would beat Del Pot at IW 2013 in 3 sets. I was correct, but I've got a few wrong.
What I don't do, is after making a mistake trying to make it seem like I was right all along and that external circumstances cost me.
For example I thought Djokovic would beat Del Pot in the semi-final of IW 2013... but I got it wrong. My mistake, as Del P played better than I thought, I simply made the wrong judgement. I'm not going to allege now that Del P took EPO during his toilet break.

summerblues wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:Playing safe doesn't do anything for me, I have always been 100% behind my convictions even if the rest of the world thought differently. I value courage very highly, but understand that not everyone is courageous.

I think you are grossly misunderstanding if you think this is the issue at hand. But, obviosuly, you think otherwise.

So agree to disagree it will be, sadly.

No need to be sad
Some great tennis to be played, the spring has arrived (on paper) and life, despite all the daily grind can be nice now and then,esp when the sun in shining and birds are singing

Larry Ellison wrote:

Tenez wrote:

Larry Ellison wrote:Basically every single prediction you've made on Nadal's imminent decline...
how many of those have there been?

These are the ones I can remember:
-In the end of 2011 you said the surface Nadal will struggle to deal with Djokovic is clay.

I maintain that. He had a bad patch on clay last year but Nadal was only saved by the rain break at the FO. He was allowed another blood transfusion overnight!..probably what cost him the silent ban.

Oh cmon... you can't be serious here.
He beat him in Rome in straights, was 2 sets to one up when the rain fell. On clay 1 break is not much.

Tenez wrote:

Larry Ellison wrote:-Raonic to win before Murray at USO 2012

Hopefully you have not come here lie at every turn of phrase. I did not say that. Certainly not in those terms.

I'm lying am I?
Hmmm: https://ourtennisforum.forumotion.co.uk/t93-us-open-2012-matches-of-the-day-day-8
You predicted Raonic to win (in the first comment!), unless you spelt Murray really really badly.
Here as well: https://ourtennisforum.forumotion.co.uk/t90p50-us-open-2012-atp-matches-of-the-day-day-6 @9:59

Tenez wrote:-

Larry Ellison wrote:Djokovic will never beat Nadal again (you said this after his wins in a row).

Yes....And I think beside the strange clay season 2012....I am right.

The only time they have played after prediction is the 2012 clay season....
That's got to be the best excuse I've ever heard. World's most convenient caveat, hey?
'I predict that Player A will beat Player B everytime they play unless there is a strange season where Player B beats Player A'

Tenez wrote:

Larry Ellison wrote:Do you want some more? These are just the ones I can remember from the top of my head. Every time you have a ridiculously convenient excuse.

Watch your words.

I'll watch them very carefully.

Looking back at this debate... I don't think I've ever seen Tenez so comprehensively rumbled before...

Oh dear! I feel a ban coming

can i ask why you did the whole jinxing thing?
You predicted pretty much every single result to go the other way and in the dp match after nadal was broken in the 2nd you said he will win in 2.

You don't actually think this do you? Feds or gulbis crushing nadal, nadal being 8th ranked for RG etc
So why do it?

Larry Ellison wrote:Looking back at this debate... I don't think I've ever seen Tenez so comprehensively rumbled before...

Oh dear! I feel a ban coming

Yes, and then you can start your own forum and see how it goes

luvsports! wrote:can i ask why you did the whole jinxing thing?
You predicted pretty much every single result to go the other way and in the dp match after nadal was broken in the 2nd you said he will win in 2.

You don't actually think this do you? Feds or gulbis crushing nadal, nadal being 8th ranked for RG etc
So why do it?

Hmmm.... it appears you answered your question before you started asking:

can i ask why you did the whole jinxing thing?

noleisthebest wrote:

Larry Ellison wrote:Looking back at this debate... I don't think I've ever seen Tenez so comprehensively rumbled before...

Oh dear! I feel a ban coming

Yes, and then you can start your own forum and see how it goes

No, I'm not planning on starting a forum.

but why do it? whats the point? stop flip flopping around as posters said they weren't taking you seriously.

luvsports! wrote:but why do it? whats the point? stop flip flopping around as posters said they weren't taking you seriously.

Everyone knew what I was doing, it was a laugh.
The funniest was when I said congratulations to Djoko in the SF and then after the match Jahu thanked me for delivering the jinx. lol

One time would you do it properly?

luvsports! wrote:One time would you do it properly?

Predictions?
My prediction for the final was not a jinx.

I don;t think amri is jixing. At a set and a bread down v Delpo he really thought Nadal was going to lose. However he says what he thinks hoping it will jinx it. Nonetheless we can be sure he did not put money on Nadal to win from that position.

He is by far the worse predictor.

Tenez wrote:I don;t think amri is jixing. At a set and a bread down v Delpo he really thought Nadal was going to lose. However he says what he thinks hoping it will jinx it.

Well that is jinxing.

Tenez wrote:
Nonetheless we can be sure he did not put money on Nadal to win from that position.

No, I wouldn't put my money on a player a set and a break down.

Tenez wrote:
He is by far the worse predictor.

lol clutching at straws here much Tenez

Using my jokey jinx predictions to prove you're a 'better predictor'.

My point of course was not that you were a bad predictor, I was pointing out how you seem to make convenient patchy excuses everytime so you can continue as if you were correct all along.
My jinxes btw don't normally come as predictions, I say 'Well done on Player X for winning.'

Is this Larry Ellison the same poster as IMBL/Red on 606v2?
He was the most annoying poster on that site. The most one eyed Nadal fan in the world. A total troll who new nothing about tennis. All he new about was trawling through Wiki looking for stats to back up stupid arguements. Clearly had never seen a tennis match before Nadal appeared. Such a fake poster, who claimed to play tennis but obviously had never picked up a racket in his life.

That guy used to clog up V2 with endless repetitive posts about eras the whole purpose of which was to reduce Federer's achievements and to make Nadal look good. If anyone disagreed with him he would harass them endlessly. Basically a troll and a bully who was boring aswell.
He would clap and applaud any post which supported his one eyed views. It was great when he left. I think the admins got sick of him.
Also a very canniving, two faced poster who would make statements that were proven to be wrong and then try to wiggle out of them with semantics. Really pathetic. Thought he was the bees knees but actually just came across as an ignorant immature child who had way too high an opinion of himself. He would offer opinions on everything but knew very little about anything.
If, as people are saying, this guy has multiple aliases across different forums, then this is just too sad. He needs to get a life and stop butt licking his idol. V2 has improved a lot since this rabid Nadal fanantic left.

TMF wrote:Is this Larry Ellison the same poster as IMBL/Red on 606v2?
He was the most annoying poster on that site. The most one eyed Nadal fan in the world. A total troll who new nothing about tennis. All he new about was trawling through Wiki looking for stats to back up stupid arguements. Clearly had never seen a tennis match before Nadal appeared. Such a fake poster, who claimed to play tennis but obviously had never picked up a racket in his life.

That guy used to clog up V2 with endless repetitive posts about eras the whole purpose of which was to reduce Federer's achievements and to make Nadal look good. If anyone disagreed with him he would harass them endlessly. Basically a troll and a bully who was boring aswell.
He would clap and applaud any post which supported his one eyed views. It was great when he left. I think the admins got sick of him.
Also a very canniving, two faced poster who would make statements that were proven to be wrong and then try to wiggle out of them with semantics. Really pathetic. Thought he was the bees knees but actually just came across as an ignorant immature child who had way too high an opinion of himself. He would offer opinions on everything but knew very little about anything.
If, as people are saying, this guy has multiple aliases across different forums, then this is just too sad. He needs to get a life and stop butt licking his idol. V2 has improved a lot since this rabid Nadal fanantic left.

Very true, all in all that describes all typical Nadal fans.
TMF, that should be put in the topic "Nadal fans".

Ouch TMF, even I felt that one.
It's improved in a few days? I must of missed that. v2 will continue to linger on without too much change imo. I kind of want simple analyst back for a day, but just one day as I will be sick of him after that!

LOL!

TMF

paulcz wrote:
Very true, all in all that describes all typical Nadal fans.

Oh Paul, nothing like a crass generalisation to start off a Sunday morning

Luvsports I don't post there just read the posts. It seems better since Red left. Not every post is about 'my dad is bigger than your dad' pedantic, era topics.

That Red guy used to claim to be some kind of objective analyst but not once did I read any era posts relating to the 70's, 80's or 90's. It was all about Federer's supposed weak era. Even when he got owned (by everyone) repeatedly on the topic of whether some slams are more valued than others instead of having the good grace to admit to his stupidity he carried on trying to pointlessly drag the whole forum into semantics. A tragic case. The funny thing is the utterly one dimensional Nadal won almost half of his titles before 2008.

In the last few days I've noticed a few more Fed fans posting there. They were mostly driven away by this guy.

TMF,
Hi, you seem to be very angry with me. You're seething. Which is weird cos I don't really know you.

-If you check my old posts on the old 606 I did talk quite a lot on the 80's and 90's.
-Weak era? I never said weak era, I don't use that term.
-'Owned on the slam topic'- hmm- I can't remember that. My recent debate with CC and Julius ended with Julius saying that my claim some slams will be harder than others is 'obvious' but 'unimportant.' CC saw it from another angle to me, and we both agreed on many things- that due to variables changing it is almost impossible for any 2 slams to have equal difficulty to win. What do think of the topic? Do you believe some slams can be harder to win than others?
-'One dimensional Nadal'- lol you're gong to get on well with Tenez.
-Won almost half his titles before 2008'. Did he really? Hmmm, I always thought he only won 3 slams before 2008.
-'More Fed fans posting there'- which ones are those? Which Fed fans are now posting there as I have left. Can you name even one? I got on very well with the Federer fans there- especially Jahu, BB etc.
-'pointlessly drag the whole forum into semantics'- I never brought grammar and spelling into my debates- not sure where you've got that one from. Can you give me an example.

Anyway, you seem kind of angry, calm down man.

Which Federer fans on v2 that are currently posting did I:
a) not get on well with
b)Have come back to the forum since I left in the past few days?

This is your chance TMF.
You've clearly been following v2 a lot- but haven't made an account yet.
Instead of debating back, you've been letting your anger rocket reading my posts, every-time you saw a comment from me your blood boiled.

And here this is your chance, debate with me, I challenge you. Answer my questions.

You've clearly got a language comprehension problem.
Are slams the only titles players play for?
Look up semantics - clue, it's not about grammar and spelling.
The whole some slams are better than others was created by you to denigrate Federer because in your little mind his slams are not equal to Nadal's. Of course the reason for positing this is because you know that the rubbish moonballer will never get near Fed in the slam stakes and therefore you're trying to create a means by which you can declare him the GOAT even if the numbers are not on his side. Quite pathetic really. And again it shows the two-faced, fradulent duplicity of your character. Everyone can read between the lines and we all know the only reason you bring up these topics (that no one cares about) is to deride Federer and somehow elevate Nadal. When people point out this duplicity you try and act all innocent, as if you were just merely raising a point of interest. Why did you bring up the topic if the end result is that to all intents and purposes we can never actually work out which slam wins are better than others (due to the multitude of variables that other posters pointed out to you, which you yourself never mentioned initially and had no intention of mentioning because it doesn't fit your agenda) ? Why don't you just man up and admit to your underhanded duplicity? You may actually get some respect for that.
The funny thing is, everyone ridiculed your point of view.

It seems like you're a laughing stock everywhere you go.

LOL, DEBATE with you, why would I waste hours debating with an ignorant child. Unlike you I actually have a life. Chance? LOL, I have more interest in debating teletubbies with five year olds than get dragged into pointless semantic arguements with you. You really have an inflated opinion of yourself. My guess is that you're probably still in school. In time you'll realise that people don't like 'know-it-alls'.

I only decided to address your duplicity and crooked underhandedness. Thankfully most people seem to be aware of this.

Have a good day, or not.

TMF wrote:
Look up semantics - clue, it's not about grammar and spelling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantics

It seems like you're a laughing stock everywhere you go.

Hmmm.
Who apart from posters on OTF thinks that? Name me one name.

I don't think you understood what I was trying to say at all. You missed my point- different slams have different difficulties- and to recognise which is which will come down to subjectivity. For the record, if you read carefully I did say if they both retired now I would see Federer as a great player than Nadal. Maybe you missed that, and unfortunately came to the wrong conclusions.

LOL, DEBATE with you, why would I waste hours debating with an ignorant child. Unlike you I actually have a life. Chance?

So you spend all your time following my posts on 606v2, and you're not even a member, letting so much anger build up; and now you're telling me you have a life. LOL.

Have a good day, or not.

You need to calm down man. You seem so angry and infuriated. If you have anger and mental issues, I would suggest seeing a psychiatrist.


btw you avoided answering this questions:

Which Federer fans on v2 that are currently posting did I:
a) not get on well with
b)Have come back to the forum since I left in the past few days?

Comedy this

You call Nadal a 'rubbish moonballer'- can you ever even get into the ATP top 1000, forget being like Nadal? I certainly can't.

You say the 'no life' line when you have clearly been following 606v2 a lot (especially my posts) even though you're not a member. Been reading all the debates too, letting the anger build up.

You didn't read the debate carefully though- I say that it is down to subjectivity- and overall at the moment I think Federer is above Nadal. If you want I can show you the exact post.

-You said many Federer fans hated me on 606v2 and have now come back once I have left. But you couldn't name any. The reality is I get on well with normal Federer fans (the ones on 606v2). It's plonkers like you who think Nadal is a 'rubbish moonballer' that make me laugh.

Who's the laughing stock again?

wilson_nxt wrote:Interesting. As an infrequent poster here, but I do read this forum, it does seem to have intolerance and aggression to views that are supportive of Nadal, however mild. This is limiting in terms of range of posters who will join here. Many of the negatives applied to him could seemingly be pointed to Djokovic (and others) so there is a whiff of double standards.

Such a perspective of recognizing talent in many forms and styles, even Federer thinks Nadal is unique, is lost in feverish accusations of illegal enhancements.

wilson_nxt wrote:Even the most obtuse poster can see Nadal is a very talented tennis player given his come back has yielded 3 titles including a HC masters. I note his BH looks a lot better too, so he's improving his game too. However, these comments will seemingly not be popular here I detect.

You are now questioning the definition of talent that this forum universally espouses, hence the premonition of unwelcome comments is very true.

wilson_nxt wrote:I also find the statement of NITB 'there's nothing wrong in not always being right, you know' ironic in terms of condescension given the poster is accusing summerblues of being similar. Just saying. There is some good knowledge here on this forum but the overall tone of the place has made me an infrequent poster (I stick to TT Warehouse and Menstennisforum which has fans from all corners) and can see why there are still only 3-4 regular posters here. infact it appears there is really only 1 main poster to be honest looking at posting count totals.

Knowledge with bias is ignorance personified, because such knowledge is incapable of addressing the bias itself and stunts further learning.

wilson_nxt wrote:So I guess this is more of a private club where opposing Nadal grants you gang status. Even though, as you may tell by my name, I'm a Fed fan I do find the constant derision of 1 player somewhat off-putting to post here any more than infrequently so would concur with summerblues on the (mis)balance of focus that is applied here.

You are ineligible for that gang tatto on your forearm which otherwise would make you a part of La Familia. Begone, you heretic, you pagan.

.

wilson_nxt wrote:Even the most obtuse poster can see Nadal is a very talented tennis player given his come back has yielded 3 titles including a HC masters.

You see this is what makes this forum a bit special. We do not take pre-conceived idea at face value. 11 slams does not necessarily equates to talent. I am busy now but stay tuned as I will explain why I think Nadal would struggle make the top 50 in talent alone.

I like to think we have some different opinions here .

For example: VJ, tenez and nitb are 100% convinced nadal is a doper.

I am suspicious of nadal but won't go as far as saying he is a doper.

Summerblues doesn';t like rafa's game but doesn't get drawn into this topic much.

Laverfan: defends him to the hilt

Amrit: Our resident nadal fan (nuff sed)

I have to agree unfortunately Wilson.
Ill defend Tenez though, at least he doesn't insult people and randomly accuse them of multi-ID ing with someone whose location is in another city hundreds of miles away.

I showed the forum as I said earlier, to a fed fan on v2. He didn't like Nadal, but like you he thought this forum was too extreme and radical to post in.

Edit: Luvsports, SB and LF don't post here much.