ATP 1000: Indian Wells

[quote="summerblues"]

Some of the recent quotes from this forum - sometimes it is hard to believe you guys are serious:

I still think he won't play, he just doesn't have the guts
to face a loss there before the rest of clay season. There are too many good
hard-courters that couldn't wait to wipe the floor with him atm.

What can I say SB....apologies for causing you such trauma in realising that even I can be wrong...

The unadulterated dislike that some posters display for a specific player, is astonishing. This is how soldiers are trained, to dehumanise the other side and devalue it.

Can anyone on this forum claim to have met Nadal? Perhaps, TRuffin1, maybe...

Tenez wrote:DO you think Nadal has this huge LH arm just to please the girls?

No. To pulverize players like Federer, Murray, Djokovic, Del Potro, Berdych, Nalbandian, ....

The only player to have leading h2h with the current Top 4.

PS: Hrbaty and Davydenko, the GOATs.

laverfan wrote:The unadulterated dislike that some posters display for a specific player, is astonishing. This is how soldiers are trained, to dehumanise the other side and devalue it.

Can anyone on this forum claim to have met Nadal? Perhaps, TRuffin1, maybe...

It's called honesty, LF. Prerequisite for genuine humbleness, not the sitting-on-the-fence-trying-to-please-everyone hypocritical kind. Hard to detect for those who don't have it.

As for "Has anyone here met Nadal" type of question, does this mean that we can only like or dislike people we have met?

noleisthebest wrote:

laverfan wrote:The unadulterated dislike that some posters display for a specific player, is astonishing. This is how soldiers are trained, to dehumanise the other side and devalue it.

Can anyone on this forum claim to have met Nadal? Perhaps, TRuffin1, maybe...

It's called honesty, LF. Prerequisite for genuine humbleness, not the sitting-on-the-fence-trying-to-please-everyone hypocritical kind. Hard to detect for those who don't have it.

Honesty with Civility.

noleisthebest wrote:As for "Has anyone here met Nadal" type of question, does this mean that we can only like or dislike people we have met?

No, but is the logical basis for such dislike a set of sports events, where win/loss is part of the game?

It seems that our love for Nadal is a thorn in your flesh LF. Let's leave the subject as you know it's going nowhere.
I don't think we want to be reformed here.

Why not talk about what made you tick in the last month or two?
Any matches you liked in particular, any new players you noticed you could recommend checking out? Did you get the chance to admire/enjoy Paire's backhand?

How's the East Coast viewing Ellison's unashamed 5th slam ambitions?

summerblues wrote:And we are done - all is back to normal; Nadal unlikely to be out of top 10 come Wimbledon

Some of the recent quotes from this forum - sometimes it is hard to believe you guys are serious:

As expected Nadal will not play in IW and Miami. He focuses
just on clay. He has come to the conclusion that he is an easy mouthful for
Nole.

They know that now Morybundus does not have a chance to win anything on hard
courts, so from now on there will be only diseases and excuses.

These two are in my ownership and here are my comments:

The info that Mori will not play was released from a Spain newspaper and then the following day it was disclaimed by Mori's band. I do not think that Spain media would write about anything which was taken just from the air. My idea is that negos were not closed and it was released as a kind of pressure to Lary in order to affect Mori' s condition.

Still I think that Mori is short of his GS chance on hc due to Nole with Murray. So, if organizers will taylor conditions for him as Larry in IW, then it can happen.

Thank you for displaying my comments and have a nice day

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:I am disappointed with Delpo letting slip the 2:0 lead in the second set. Clear mental issue, nothing physical. Allowed himself a split second of relaxing and it was all gone with the wind....

I really don't think it was mental at all. Nadal made him run too and he had pretty tough 1/4 and semi. He was very tired actually.

Delpo lost his focus and did not play his forehands in the second set which he did before and in the end of the match, when he just tried. Clear and seen.

Tenez wrote:

I'd say Federer is the mentally strongest (and I really did not believe that up to 2009) but understanding what are his weapon and being able to deliver them when it matters is an amazing sign of mental strength.

Ten, please start praying not to see Fed play with Mori in Wimbledon, If that happen that will be the mourning fest of all real tennis fan.

Fed is completely out of his sort when playing with Moribudnus and it started at Wimbledon 2008. God saves us all against another match with Fed and Moribundus.

noleisthebest wrote:It seems that our love for Nadal is a thorn in your flesh LF. Let's leave the subject as you know it's going nowhere. I don't think we want to be reformed here.

NP.

noleisthebest wrote:Why not talk about what made you tick in the last month or two?
Any matches you liked in particular, any new players you noticed you could recommend checking out? Did you get the chance to admire/enjoy Paire's backhand?

I enjoyed Dubai. Glad there are still some faster courts left, where i can watch non slug-fest type tennis. Watching Paire self-destruct against a counter-puncher like Simon was

noleisthebest wrote:How's the East Coast viewing Ellison's unashamed 5th slam ambitions?

It may be a silver lining for players in R1, R2, etc. If he is going to fight, to put more prize money in the table, perhaps the early rounds may stand to benefit, apart from personally filling up his coffers. He has climbed up on the backs of some really hard-working people, and he continues to do so. He has very successfully transformed himself from a technology person to a business person in the last 40+ years, which is an admirable achievement.

laverfan wrote:The unadulterated dislike that some posters display for a specific player, is astonishing. This is how soldiers are trained, to dehumanise the other side and devalue it.

LF, I consider as much more astonishing the fact that so many "pseudo" tennis fans on your forum can not see what is behind the facade of Moribundus. Maybe due to a lack of rationale thinking, an unsettled mind or blindness.

paulcz wrote:

laverfan wrote:The unadulterated dislike that some posters display for a specific player, is astonishing. This is how soldiers are trained, to dehumanise the other side and devalue it.

LF, I consider as much more astonishing the fact that so many "pseudo" tennis fans on your forum can not see what is behind the facade of Moribundus. Maybe due to a lack of rationale thinking, an unsettled mind or blindness.

Paul, there is always a dark side, not matter where you are. It is a matter of personal opinion, what is a 'pseudo' Tennis fan. Just ask SB.

It also raises the ugly head of elitism. To each his own.

As I often quote this...

Given a choice of two restaurants, one, where you like the food, the other where your opinion of the food is terrible, would you rather discuss the food you like, or just the food you dislike? Think about this in Tennis terms.

summerblues wrote:And we are done - all is back to normal; Nadal unlikely to be out of top 10 come Wimbledon

Some of the recent quotes from this forum - sometimes it is hard to believe you guys are serious:

Let's be honest, at least 10 players could beat him easily on
hard courts right now.

Do people really see Nadal coiming back? I really don't. His
clay season is going to be everything and I doubt he will be able to train as
much and as hard....and even if he does...he game is obsolete now.

Do you think you and I woudl have sounded smarter had we projected Nadal comeback to full form after 2 weeks, and win a TMS after 4 weeks despite 8 months without competition?

Even Nadal says "unbelievable"....Only his scientific team is not surprised I guess.

Anyway what I predicted is that the rest woudl catch up with him and the other top players. last week we saw Delpo as a real potential to number one and I am convinced the others we follow up. Delpo knows he can beat the top guys now...if his confidence increases he might be hard to stop.

laverfan wrote:No, but is the logical basis for such dislike a set of sports events, where win/loss is part of the game?

Of course it's logical. You simply do not see the logic. For me, I cannot speak for the others, my dislike of Nadal's game is very clear and understandable. You might not agree with it, but I do not like this style which relies essentially on muscles. That's not very difficult to understand, is it? Especially since we now nowadays the likelyhood of the source of this physique.

II think you may find it harder a bit harder to explain the passion of those hysterical fans who likes him cause "it's Rafa and we love him...cause it's Rafa and he has brown chocolate eyes....cause he'got a lovely smile...and we love him".

Once again he won yesterday cause he was fitter than Delpo...nothing else.

paulcz wrote:

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:I am disappointed with Delpo letting slip the 2:0 lead in the second set. Clear mental issue, nothing physical. Allowed himself a split second of relaxing and it was all gone with the wind....

I really don't think it was mental at all. Nadal made him run too and he had pretty tough 1/4 and semi. He was very tired actually.

Delpo lost his focus and did not play his forehands in the second set which he did before and in the end of the match, when he just tried. Clear and seen.

Paul - I believe you have played the game enough to understand or imagine what it is to play against someone who makes you run as much as Nadal. You lose your edge and explosiveness like all the other players before Delpo. Djoko doesn;t play with explosiveness and this is why it's Nadal who gets tired first.

Forget teh mental side in tennis nowadays. It's negligeable (unless yuo are Berdych of course) cause from 0/3 down Delpo has the believe and courage to do it. He did it also v Djoko cause he had still some gas under his foot or maybe as you say Djoko was not physically fit.

Nadal if not 120% doesn;t not even enter a tournament....that's how important is physique nowadays.

laverfan wrote:

paulcz wrote:

laverfan wrote:The unadulterated dislike that some posters display for a specific player, is astonishing. This is how soldiers are trained, to dehumanise the other side and devalue it.

LF, I consider as much more astonishing the fact that so many "pseudo" tennis fans on your forum can not see what is behind the facade of Moribundus. Maybe due to a lack of rationale thinking, an unsettled mind or blindness.

Paul, there is always a dark side, not matter where you are. It is a matter of personal opinion, what is a 'pseudo' Tennis fan. Just ask SB.

It also raises the ugly head of elitism. To each his own.

As I often quote this...

Given a choice of two restaurants, one, where you like the food, the other where your opinion of the food is terrible, would you rather discuss the food you like, or just the food you dislike? Think about this in Tennis terms.

Everything is about personal preferences, but people are supposed to have at leat a bit of an ability to distinguish things from the point of view based on moral principle. I can tolerate only Moris fans, who do not understand and do not watch tennis often or children, who are just too young to recognize it.

Imo your example is not appropriate. I see it as follow:

- given a choice of two restaurants, which both are good, great quality of food, modern with the same prices. But they have different waitresses.

The first do weird routines as scratching, they cheat and lie and dissemble their honesty. Their positive side that they are fast and “have a big muscles”.

The second ones are relaxed, calm people with good reputation, although not so muscled and a say bit slowly. For me no way that I would go to the first one and I just laugh at these who sit there.

paulcz wrote:

Tenez wrote:

I'd say Federer is the mentally strongest (and I really did not believe that up to 2009) but understanding what are his weapon and being able to deliver them when it matters is an amazing sign of mental strength.

Ten, please start praying not to see Fed play with Mori in Wimbledon, If that happen that will be the mourning fest of all real tennis fan.

Fed is completely out of his sort when playing with Moribudnus and it started at Wimbledon 2008. God saves us all against another match with Fed and Moribundus.

2 things. Nadal stood 4m behind the baseline at IW, teh slowest court on tour. How far behind do you think he will stand on grass? Do you think Rosol can do things Federer can't? Who won WImby last year with a bad back?

And Federer beat Nadal in IW last year...under strong winds. SO not something Fed could not do. Did he not beat Nadal twice on grass?

But more importantly I am not hoping anything on Federer nowadays...I just hope he can fix his back....only then will I start to project a future in tennis for him. Now I have more hope on Beneteau than Roger anyway.

Tenez wrote:

paulcz wrote:

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:I am disappointed with Delpo letting slip the 2:0 lead in the second set. Clear mental issue, nothing physical. Allowed himself a split second of relaxing and it was all gone with the wind....

I really don't think it was mental at all. Nadal made him run too and he had pretty tough 1/4 and semi. He was very tired actually.

Delpo lost his focus and did not play his forehands in the second set which he did before and in the end of the match, when he just tried. Clear and seen.

Paul - I believe you have played the game enough to understand or imagine what it is to play against someone who makes you run as much as Nadal. You lose your edge and explosiveness like all the other players before Delpo. Djoko doesn;t play with explosiveness and this is why it's Nadal who gets tired first.

Forget teh mental side in tennis nowadays. It's negligeable (unless yuo are Berdych of course) cause from 0/3 down Delpo has the believe and courage to do it. He did it also v Djoko cause he had still some gas under his foot or maybe as you say Djoko was not physically fit.

Nadal if not 120% doesn;t not even enter a tournament....that's how important is physique nowadays.

Yes Ten, I played a couple of hundreds

If you play a decisive ball on BP with Mori you need to have legs, hands and focus. Only player who does have it is Nole. Some are worse some better, but the difference between these two and others is obvious.

You know, if you do not have legs then you need to take a risk and try to hit through. Yesterday Delpo did not do it and just hanged, very similar to Berd. Fed fades out on these break points pretty often as well and his ratio of unused BPs has been horrible. So, Nole with Mori are exceptional in this regards due to their combination of 3 factors.

Tenez wrote:

paulcz wrote:

Tenez wrote:

I'd say Federer is the mentally strongest (and I really did not believe that up to 2009) but understanding what are his weapon and being able to deliver them when it matters is an amazing sign of mental strength.

Ten, please start praying not to see Fed play with Mori in Wimbledon, If that happen that will be the mourning fest of all real tennis fan.

Fed is completely out of his sort when playing with Moribudnus and it started at Wimbledon 2008. God saves us all against another match with Fed and Moribundus.

2 things. Nadal stood 4m behind the baseline at IW, teh slowest court on tour. How far behind do you think he will stand on grass? Do you think Rosol can do things Federer can't? Who won WImby last year with a bad back?

And Federer beat Nadal in IW last year...under strong winds. SO not something Fed could not do. Did he not beat Nadal twice on grass?

But more importantly I am not hoping anything on Federer nowadays...I just hope he can fix his back....only then will I start to project a future in tennis for him. Now I have more hope on Beneteau than Roger anyway.

Their Wimbledon 08 was so analyzed in details, that I am not sure to start with it. I am convinced that Fed's SHBH does not have a chance against Mori on grass. If Fed is not able to serve on 90%, then I see his chance 0. He would need to serve 80% with 1st serve with speed 120mph, then maybe.

On fast hc with Fed's great serve he could do it and did it. IMO Fed on his prime had the best serve ever. I am not much optimistic about Fed' s back, but miracles happen from time to time.

But how do you explain Paul that Fed, Delpo, Murray and including Djoko before 2011 were in the lead before failing over the distance?

Do you really believe they are all strong mentally at the start of the match but their mental collapses while leading despite their physique still going strong?

It does not make sense to me.



FYI - Fed leads at least by a break in most matches he has played v Nadal. Wasting multiple SPs and MPs.

Murray often teh same.

Djoko very often too pre 2011 with the Madrid 08 final being the most obvious case.

The thing is even with a very bad back on a very slow court Federer managed to get 4 games out of Nadal in that first set. And teh serve he lost he was 40/15 up. With a bad back he took Murray to 5 sets at the AO.

I think you may be underestimating the 17 slam champion a bit...of which 7 are Wimbledon titles.

Next week, different results will lead to different conclusions.

Nadal's win yesterday proves 2 things

1 He was never even injured
2 He is 100% still on the juice

Hi guys,

Bad day yesterday as I had to work from home all day and big part of night. I still took a break to watch the match as I sensed it could be good to watch and even though the result made my day no better (the opposite would have made the day bearable ) I still enjoyed watching it. Especially the first set and a half when both players were playing aggressive and good tennis...

Now, true is the fact that the courts were super slow and high bouncy, which favored Nadal all in all among all players in the tournament, but also favored Del Po a bit, not against Nadal though. So it is not that surprising that Nadal won but I liked seeing how close Del Po. But seriously, can anyone imagine what it would have taken for him to win the whole thing? Beating the top 3 players of the past two years (bar a small period when Federer made a push)? That would have been a feat! Anyways, I'm sure he's proud or will be pretty fast of the results he's had and now knows he's back to his best and can beat ll the guys at the top. I also agree with Ten that clay will be good for him and even better to him than to Nadal (bar maybe Monte-Carlo). We can recall the match in Davis Cup when he won the first set vs. Nadal and seemed to be able to win the match had he had the level of self belief and physical abilities he now has.

Now, about this match. Both players were playing good tennis at the start and I was surprised to see that from Nadal and see him in front. But as he said himself to Brad Gilbert at the end of his match, he recognized he was doing that for a set and a half and that was how Del Po got the better of him as also he, himself, could not keep it up. Then, as he said himself after the match, he started being more patient and play his style (defensive (and waiting for the opponent to get tired in the rally to attack)) and that's how he won. I think Nadal is spot on on how the match went.

As a conclusion I can say, IMHO, that I'm happy Nadal is back to his best but that the level of the others has increased while he was away and even though he improved, the others improved even more. I can see Nole, Murray and Del Po being his toughest competition on clay, and maybe Fed if his back gets better. Berdych can beat Fed but I doubt he can beat new Murray, Nole, Nadal or even Ferrer, so he might be at the best his ranking can be. Del Po could go pretty high, but maybe not number one this year. Fed is gonna slip down the rankings a bit. Tsonga seems hurt physically since AO but if he gets better could be in top 5 along with Nole, Del Po, Murray and Nadal, especially if he plays as well on clay as he did last year at the FO. Maybe time for me to go to the prediction thread?

Veejay wrote:Nadal's win yesterday proves 2 things

1 He was never even injured
2 He is 100% still on the juice

Good to see you here Vee again,

I would add 3. every draw is rigged and taylored in his favor

Tenez wrote:But how do you explain Paul that Fed, Delpo, Murray and including Djoko before 2011 were in the lead before failing over the distance?

Do you really believe they are all strong mentally at the start of the match but their mental collapses while leading despite their physique still going strong?

It does not make sense to me.



FYI - Fed leads at least by a break in most matches he has played v Nadal. Wasting multiple SPs and MPs.

Murray often teh same.

Djoko very often too pre 2011 with the Madrid 08 final being the most obvious case.

Every player gets with his success more confidence. As surface conditions are slower now the more experience players can handle better with the pressure and their better stamina plays important role in it as well.

I have not checked the statistics of BPs, but I do not believe that Fed leads on BPs % with Mori, perhaps on hc from earlier sessions when serving was huge.

Add 4: The courts and conditions are taylored for him. A priviledge a uncomiited star like Nadal will get.

Good to have you back you too...like the calvary you arrive late!

sphairistike wrote:We can recall the match in Davis Cup when he won the first set vs. Nadal and seemed to be able to win the match had he had the level of self belief and physical abilities he now has.

Exactly. And that was in Spain...right? This is what people do not see....even at 18...Delpo had set point on clay v Nadal...in 2008? What Sod did, Delpo can do better.

Also agree with the rest of your post.

paulcz wrote:

Tenez wrote:But how do you explain Paul that Fed, Delpo, Murray and including Djoko before 2011 were in the lead before failing over the distance?

Do you really believe they are all strong mentally at the start of the match but their mental collapses while leading despite their physique still going strong?

It does not make sense to me.



FYI - Fed leads at least by a break in most matches he has played v Nadal. Wasting multiple SPs and MPs.

Murray often teh same.



Djoko very often too pre 2011 with the Madrid 08 final being the most obvious case.

Every player gets with his success more confidence. As surface conditions are slower now the more experience players can handle better with the pressure and their better stamina plays important role in it as well.

I have not checked the statistics of BPs, but I do not believe that Fed leads on BPs % with Mori, perhaps on hc from earlier sessions when serving was huge.

I am not talking about BP% I am saying that in most of Fed's matches with Nadal, Federer lead by a break in the first set or even won it...even on clay. Just look at their last 2 Slams encounters for instance...(FO11, AO12) but many more matches like that.

In fact it is even more noticeable when Fed plays Djoko. So are you saying that Fed loses his focus? Bear in mind that physical tiredness certainly causes loss of focus.

sphairistike wrote:Hi guys,


Now, true is the fact that the courts were super slow and high bouncy, which favored Nadal all in all among all players in the tournament, but also favored Del Po a bit, not against Nadal though. So it is not that surprising that Nadal won but I liked seeing how close Del Po. But seriously, can anyone imagine what it would have taken for him to win the whole thing? Beating the top 3 players of the past two years (bar a small period when Federer made a push)? That would have been a feat! Anyways, I'm sure he's proud or will be pretty fast of the results he's had and now knows he's back to his best and can beat ll the guys at the top. I also agree with Ten that clay will be good for him and even better to him than to Nadal (bar maybe Monte-Carlo). We can recall the match in Davis Cup when he won the first set vs. Nadal and seemed to be able to win the match had he had the level of self belief and physical abilities he now has.


As a conclusion I can say, IMHO, that I'm happy Nadal is back to his best but that the level of the others has increased while he was away and even though he improved, the others improved even more. I can see Nole, Murray and Del Po being his toughest competition on clay, and maybe Fed if his back gets better. Berdych can beat Fed but I doubt he can beat new Murray, Nole, Nadal or even Ferrer, so he might be at the best his ranking can be. Del Po could go pretty high, but maybe not number one this year. Fed is gonna slip down the rankings a bit. Tsonga seems hurt physically since AO but if he gets better could be in top 5 along with Nole, Del Po, Murray and Nadal, especially if he plays as well on clay as he did last year at the FO. Maybe time for me to go to the prediction thread?

Yes Del Potro beat Murray and Djokovic back to back and he should be proud of that but he lost the tournament to Nadal who has been away from the game for seven months and hc is Nadal's worst surface and Del Potro's best. Bottom line is there is no excuse for Del Potro losing that match to Nadal and it is another lost title for Del Potro.

Regarding the other players improving more than Nadal since he has been away, that is not the case imo. Also, I can't see anybody beating this Nadal on clay this season, not Murray, not Del Potro and not even Djokovic. Re Federer beating Nadal on clay? LOL! The FO is Nadal's unless something serious and unexpected happens.

Veejay wrote:Nadal's win yesterday proves 2 things

1 He was never even injured
2 He is 100% still on the juice

Of course Nadal is not injured! He looks stronger than ever.

BlueClay wrote:

Yes Del Potro beat Murray and Djokovic back to back and he should be proud of that but he lost the tournament to Nadal who has been away from the game for seven months and hc is Nadal's worst surface and Del Potro's best. Bottom line is there is no excuse for Del Potro losing that match to Nadal and it is another lost title for Del Potro.

Regarding the other players improving more than Nadal since he has been away, that is not the case imo. Also, I can't see anybody beating this Nadal on clay this season, not Murray, not Del Potro and not even Djokovic. Re Federer beating Nadal on clay? LOL! The FO is Nadal's unless something serious and unexpected happens.

You are wrong there I'm afraid. the whole 7-8 months of absence for Rafa doesn't mean he hasn't worked on his tennis for 7-8 months, it seems he has worked on his tennis for easily 6 months. Plus, super slow HC with high bounce are even more advantageous for Nadal vs. DelPo as Nadal can run faster on that surface than DelPo. On clay, DelPo could breach that gap in speed. I already gave an example (DC) so I don't think I need to elaborate more on this... So are you claiming that bar the loss to Zellabos, Nadal's record on clay this year will be 100%? Easy bet to take. I can think of Madrid already he won't win. I'm pretty sure he's winning MC. Now, even Rome is a ? for me. FO, let's wait and see. One thing I know for sure is if Nadal has the same draw as DelPo in IW, I would not bet any money on him. If he gets lucky with the draw (like in IW) and it's clay top heavy on the other half, then yes sure he'll win it. But Fed could also win it if his back is good and he lets all the other top 4-5 players fight it out till the final and comes there fresh as a daisy, even vs. Nadal. Let's just hope for the 2011 fast balls!

Yes, Federer's has had quite a few nasty draws in the States recently, but we're moving on to Europe soon, and things are not so IMG-ed & Oracled around 'ere

noleisthebest wrote:Yes, Federer's has had quite a few nasty draws in the States recently, but we're moving on to Europe soon, and things are not so IMG-ed & Oracled around 'ere

We are now into draw-rigging vis-a-vis Federer? Have we moved on from Djokovic's draw-rigging to someone else?

laverfan wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:Yes, Federer's has had quite a few nasty draws in the States recently, but we're moving on to Europe soon, and things are not so IMG-ed & Oracled around 'ere

We are now into draw-rigging vis-a-vis Federer? Have we moved on from Djokovic's draw-rigging to someone else?

Well, now that Fed left IMG and they signed Nole, things have changed....I didn't ever expect Fed to have any of that kind of trouble, esp now at the end of his career where everyone wants to see him play as long as possible.

sphairistike wrote:
You are wrong there I'm afraid. the whole 7-8 months of absence for Rafa doesn't mean he hasn't worked on his tennis for 7-8 months, it seems he has worked on his tennis for easily 6 months. Plus, super slow HC with high bounce are even more advantageous for Nadal vs. DelPo as Nadal can run faster on that surface than DelPo. On clay, DelPo could breach that gap in speed. I already gave an example (DC) so I don't think I need to elaborate more on this... So are you claiming that bar the loss to Zellabos, Nadal's record on clay this year will be 100%? Easy bet to take. I can think of Madrid already he won't win. I'm pretty sure he's winning MC. Now, even Rome is a ? for me. FO, let's wait and see. One thing I know for sure is if Nadal has the same draw as DelPo in IW, I would not bet any money on him. If he gets lucky with the draw (like in IW) and it's clay top heavy on the other half, then yes sure he'll win it. But Fed could also win it if his back is good and he lets all the other top 4-5 players fight it out till the final and comes there fresh as a daisy, even vs. Nadal. Let's just hope for the 2011 fast balls!

I agree with you that I think Nadal DID work on his tennis during his absence, that is obvious.

No, I am not claiming Nadal's record on clay this year will be 100% but I see him sweeping most of the clay tournaments. I don't see how Murray has any chance of beating Nadal at the FO. Del Po has a slim chance. Federer has NO chance to beat Nadal at the FO imo and Djokovic has a 25% chance the way I see it right now. That could chance depending on what happens at the clay tune-ups before the FO.

Even Delpo finds it hard to believe the speed of Nadal's comeback:

"Of course I’m surprised. But I don't know how surprised I am because Rafa can do everything. Not many players can do that. He's very strong mentally. His game is very good, very strong, very solid. Hehas big talent, as well. His team was working with him every day to be in shape for this tournament after seven months. But not many players can do that. Just him or maybe one or two more in the world. But it's amazing how fast he's recovered the level.”

laverfan wrote:
Given a choice of two restaurants, one, where you like the food, the other where your opinion of the food is terrible, would you rather discuss the food you like, or just the food you dislike? Think about this in Tennis terms.

Well, that's a wrong metafore. We're talking about a bad cook secretly pissing in the good cook's casseroles here

Tenez wrote:

paulcz wrote:

Tenez wrote:But how do you explain Paul that Fed, Delpo, Murray and including Djoko before 2011 were in the lead before failing over the distance?

Do you really believe they are all strong mentally at the start of the match but their mental collapses while leading despite their physique still going strong?

It does not make sense to me.



FYI - Fed leads at least by a break in most matches he has played v Nadal. Wasting multiple SPs and MPs.

Murray often teh same.



Djoko very often too pre 2011 with the Madrid 08 final being the most obvious case.

Every player gets with his success more confidence. As surface conditions are slower now the more experience players can handle better with the pressure and their better stamina plays important role in it as well.

I have not checked the statistics of BPs, but I do not believe that Fed leads on BPs % with Mori, perhaps on hc from earlier sessions when serving was huge.

I am not talking about BP% I am saying that in most of Fed's matches with Nadal, Federer lead by a break in the first set or even won it...even on clay. Just look at their last 2 Slams encounters for instance...(FO11, AO12) but many more matches like that.

In fact it is even more noticeable when Fed plays Djoko. So are you saying that Fed loses his focus? Bear in mind that physical tiredness certainly causes loss of focus.

Fed fades away after he starts not catching up with his SHBH and it causes him a mental hitch. We can speculate how much it is about his stamina, but I am convinced that it comes from his knowledge that he is fragile from that wing. He can run around his BH or to try hitting through Mori. When running around BH he is going to run more and more and also lose his mental peace. Every first 4-5 games are played with clear head, but when a game gets into rail, the mental pressure is getting higher. Mori is going to graduate his intensity when closing a set or playng a BP and when a player knowing that rallies are gradually more extended has its toll.
Tbh to play with Mori is utter disaster. Imagine, you need to serve out the match and can see that Mori is 5 metres behind the line. You can try to hit a close the line with a risk or can go with a wide kick. Serve a close the line has a risk of the second serve and then he comes closer to the BL, so his pressure on your 2nd serve is higher. When you serving a kick serve you can be sure that he will chase it and you will invite a high loopy ball, which is impossible to put away. Then you also think that next rally will be longer and longer if you do not deliver a good ball. We can have some sympathy for Berd and Delpo in IW. I really understood Berd that he went for aces, but from score 5:3 he did only one first serve, which is too little. Delpo was a bit more consistent on serve and patient on a ball, but also failed. On such a slow slurry their chance to serve out was too small.

Nadal not playing in Miami, he seems to need rest from the 7 months of rest he's just had

"The doctors recommend me to be back home for a few weeks and rest a little bit and keep practicing the right way,I need more power on the left leg quadriceps, so I need to keep working hard. The competition is hard for the body, so after four fantastic weeks I can't go to Miami. I need to prepare and rest for Monte Carlo."

Also not playing in Miami: Federer, Gulbis (who doesn't want to go through another set of qualies, and was not given the last wild card), Fish, Wawrinka & Stepanek.

noleisthebest wrote:Nadal not playing in Miami, he seems to need rest from the 7 months of rest he's just had

"The doctors recommend me to be back home for a few weeks and rest a little bit and keep practicing the right way,I need more power on the left leg quadriceps, so I need to keep working hard. The competition is hard for the body, so after four fantastic weeks I can't go to Miami. I need to prepare and rest for Monte Carlo."

Also not playing in Miami: Federer, Gulbis (who doesn't want to go through another set of qualies, and was not given the last wild card), Fish, Wawrinka & Stepanek.

Gee I wonder why...he withdrew last year too...and miraculously came back with an improved serve and healed knees all in the space of 3 weeks!!

paulcz wrote:

Veejay wrote:Nadal's win yesterday proves 2 things

1 He was never even injured
2 He is 100% still on the juice

Good to see you here Vee again,

I would add 3. every draw is rigged and taylored in his favor

Thanks Paul ( and everyone else)

Vee, Truffin was looking for yuo the other day. SO stay around...

phew you're back vj!
It was getting hard being the anointed otf doping expert (for which i paled in comparison to your good self).
Now you can educate us once more.

Tenez wrote:Vee, Truffin was looking for yuo the other day. SO stay around...

Thanks Tenez,I caught up with him today, but will be around anyway


LOL @ Luvsports,what did I miss?

were you here for the fuentes trial?

also the intro of the biopassport, which won't really help tennis at all.
Its better in cycling but there are still ways around it, kohl and rasmussen said it wasn't much of a nuisance.

luvsports! wrote:were you here for the fuentes trial?

also the intro of the biopassport, which won't really help tennis at all.
Its better in cycling but there are still ways around it, kohl and rasmussen said it wasn't much of a nuisance.

I stopped following the Feuntes trail after the judge refused to allow the list of athletes that received treatments from Fuentes to be exhibited as evidence for the trail
I actually don't even know what the outcome was,thats how much interest I lost,I suppose Fuentes used that information to negotiate some kind of deal with the district attorney?
Yeah I read about the biopassport...I am still laughing a how pathetic it is *rolls eyes*

gallery play wrote:

laverfan wrote:
Given a choice of two restaurants, one, where you like the food, the other where your opinion of the food is terrible, would you rather discuss the food you like, or just the food you dislike? Think about this in Tennis terms.

Well, that's a wrong metafore. We're talking about a bad cook secretly pissing in the good cook's casseroles here

I need to talk to Gordon Ramsay, for him to stop pissing PEDs and Steroids in Nadal's pasta y gambas.

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2010/09/28/ramsay-chef-commits-suicide-tv-appearance/

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Oh SB , this is what any tennis forum is all about.Talking, discussing speculating and predicting. No one knows the future, so its all guess work. We sometimes make wishful thinking. Sometimes it comes out right and other times totally rubbish. This is all the fun about a tennis-forum.

Yes rotla, wishful thinking is fine but why not keep it within some limits. I would not complain if Nadal were out of top 10 come Wimbledon but that was just never in the cards. I enjoy debates, but detachment from reality in some of that stuff makes it unfit for an interesting discussion. For goodness’ sake, am I supposed to be attracted to a discussion on whether Nadal’s game is obsolete?

It is ok if some of the more “fanciful” ideas make their way on the forum here and there, but there is a critical mass of them here, to the point where the overall tone of the forum is colored by them. At least in the context of hard facts – such as predictions of Rafa’s drop out of top 10 – one can measure their accuracy. But there are plenty of topics where the ultimate answers are not so easily measurable. If the forum undertakes their discussion with the same level of intellectual honesty given to the prediction of Rafa’s demise upon return, it is even more difficult there to have a meaningful discussion on those topics.

summerblues wrote: If the forum undertakes their discussion with the same level of intellectual honesty given to the prediction of Rafa’s demise upon return, it is even more difficult there to have a meaningful discussion on those topics.

SB,
you do realise how biased and condescending you are in this statement, don't you?
You have to have a dividing and polarising topic for any successful argumentative debate. Otherwise it's just bland and safe beating about the bush, never losing face and always being right.
There is nothing wrong in not always being right, you know...

I don't find it condescending

summerblues wrote:For goodness’ sake, am I supposed to be attracted to a discussion on whether Nadal’s game is obsolete?

It's hilarious.
As I said earlier, every year Tenez has predicted Nadal is going on a slippery slope, and each time he comes up with a patchy and unconvincing reason covering it up (blaming it on 'unforeseeable external factors') and then continuing smugly as if he was right all along.
Not just Tenez, I think most on this forum.

Of course Nadal will decline, it may even be this year or the year after; no doubt we'll hear how 'correct we all were all along' after getting it wrong for years.