ATP 1000: Indian Wells

gallery play wrote:

Tenez wrote:Delpo...the new Nadal!

Watch it T, or i'll leave your forum

I am really glad he won but he certainly does rally a lot he is not scared of doing the running.

Another niece piece of luck for Nadal...having to play an exhausted Delpo tomorrow.

Tenez wrote:

gallery play wrote:

Tenez wrote:Delpo...the new Nadal!

Watch it T, or i'll leave your forum

I am really glad he won but he certainly does rally a lot he is not scared of doing the running.

Another niece piece of luck for Nadal...having to play an exhausted Delpo tomorrow.

If you are glad I am laving the forum

noleisthebest wrote:

gallery play wrote:I'm surprised Delpo was able to keep his energy level high. To beat Djoko from a set down and 3-0 down in the final is quite extraordinary.

Well, that much for all the talk of Nole being a doper....he was spent long before that 3:0.....

Like i said, he was being un-djoko. He usually wins matches like this

gallery play wrote:I'm surprised Delpo was able to keep his energy level high. To beat Djoko from a set down and 3-0 down in the final is quite extraordinary.

Especially for a tall guy like that. Did you see the stat which showed he had covered more ground than Djoko in that match? !!!

Tenez wrote:

gallery play wrote:

Tenez wrote:Delpo...the new Nadal!

Watch it T, or i'll leave your forum

I am really glad he won but he certainly does rally a lot he is not scared of doing the running.

Another niece piece of luck for Nadal...having to play an exhausted Delpo tomorrow.

Yeah, it does look good for Nadal. It's been a tough week for Delpo and this match alone will take a 2 days to recover from.

But even if he ran as much as Djoko, Djoko had cover the ground at a higher pace and that is what really makes the difference cause he had to chase more powerful shots from both corners.

And as I said there is a thin line where the defending guy suddenly loses a step due to tiredness, teh attacker relaxes and makes it even harder for the retriever. That's how Fed won v Nadal at Miami 05 and Wimby 07 over 5 sets.

He might not happen like that but similarly the attacker wins more of the last games: Delpo won 6 out of the last 7 games there, Fed won the last 6 games at Miami 05 and the last 5 games at Wimby 07.

It usually doesn;t happen like that but it can...and as I said it's a thin line going one way or the other.

Tenez wrote:

gallery play wrote:I'm surprised Delpo was able to keep his energy level high. To beat Djoko from a set down and 3-0 down in the final is quite extraordinary.

Especially for a tall guy like that. Did you see the stat which showed he had covered more ground than Djoko in that match? !!!

Yeah, there was not much between them. Have to say that Delpo was more dominant overall

Agree, in fairness a lot of rallies were pretty boring from both ends, but, all in all, there is no doubt Delpo was the one who was trying to force the issue far more than Nole.

Commiserations, NITB.

Moribundus (correct Paul?) v Del Po tomorrow.

Would anyone like to give any credit to Nadal for beating Berdych? I guess not.

@Raiders... like your question about Federer v Berdych.

noleisthebest wrote:The only thing Berd needs to do is pretend that Nadal is Federer....he seems scared of Nadal.

... or Nadal should imagine Rosol on the other side?

laverfan wrote:Commiserations, NITB.

Nobody died

laverfan wrote:Moribundus (correct Paul?) v Del Po tomorrow.

Would anyone like to give any credit to Nadal for beating Berdych? I guess not.

...

What woudl you give credit for besides his amazing fitness...which is again better than ever. I certainly congratulates his conditioning team. Do you give credit to a player for standing 6m behind the baseline on the return and wallops the ball has hard as possible hoping to obtain an UE? Not me.

And again I feel Berdych's robotic game was too easily messed up by Nadal's fizzy ball.

laverfan wrote:Moribundus (correct Paul?) v Del Po tomorrow.

Would anyone like to give any credit to Nadal for beating Berdych? I guess not.

@Raiders... like your question about Federer v Berdych.

noleisthebest wrote:The only thing Berd needs to do is pretend that Nadal is Federer....he seems scared of Nadal.

... or Nadal should imagine Rosol on the other side?

Correct LF, Moribundus . I give Mori about 90% he takes IW.
There was one dissapoitining thing from Nole's performance. He did not feel well on the court. Not sure if it was mainly from the organisation of the tourney and the schedule, but I think it was more from his body trouble. His bandaged elbow showed he has an elbow inflammation. It was gettting worse during the third set and his serve dropped to his lowest level. Normally Nole would serve out the match into the end, but there was obvious problem.
Nole has been playing with a smaller racket frame since this year and hits ball a bit harder, which could have resulted in his elbow trouble. So it looks like that clay season looks to be pretty in Mori's hands if Nole does not feel well with his hand. IMO, Mori is a strong favorite for all clay sessions and RG and I would bet money on him also in Wimbledon. Unfortunately Nole's body frame is too fragile and his body can not resist such a physical game for a long time.

paulcz wrote:Nole has been playing with a smaller racket frame since this year and hits ball a bit harder, which could have resulted in his elbow trouble. So it looks like that clay season looks to be pretty in Mori's hands if Nole does not feel well with his hand. IMO, Mori is a strong favorite for all clay sessions and RG and I would bet money on him also in Wimbledon. Unfortunately Nole's body frame is too fragile and his body can not resist such a physical game for a long time.

Interesting. Would be useful to compare his average serve speed with first set and previous matches. Having said that I don't think Delpo was running at full speed either.

Murray says also in his intereview that the ball really seats up. And that is so true, It gives Nadal a chance to simply hit as hard as he can without worrying much on his timing. This is according to Federer the slowest court on tour by far and Nadal is always going to be a tough one to beat there. If anything the slow conds did help Delpo who could rally, be patient and pull the trigger when needed. It might be harder to do with Nadal's fizzy balls and Delpo being tired too.

Whatever happens tonight I do not think it will give us much information for the rest of the year.

Watching Delpo yesterday it was obvious to me that Rao has actually more weapons. His serve is much better his FH though less secure for now is also pacier and the day things will start to click in, he will be the real deal...and that is month away from now. HIs BH is still weak but even there he has made huge progress, especially on the return. Tsonga was in a way lucky to have to play him on such slow conds and returned crucial points while standing 6m back. On other surfaces a few of those crucial returns woudl not have been.

Also, I always believed Delpo was weak mentally...but he has surprised me over the last year or so.

who do you see is strong mentally tenez?

luvsports! wrote:who do you see is strong mentally tenez?

Delpo is quite strong. I was wrong about him or rather he is starting to believe he can win..which is a sign of mental strength.

Regarding the others it's very difficult to assess them as nowadays it's simply linked to the physique and ability to cover the miles. We have seen both Ndal and Djoko "mentally" falter as soon as they physique drop and it's normal as this their main weapon.

I'd say Federer is the mentally strongest (and I really did not believe that up to 2009) but understanding what are his weapon and being able to deliver them when it matters is an amazing sign of mental strength. I am pretty you will not find in the history of tennis someone using his talent as much to win and yet deliver as much. Pete who is known to be very strong was resting on his serve on fast surfaces. McEnroe was not bad in that respect but he did not achive half of what Federer did despite being much less challenged physically. Cause this is the real problem for talented players (or those using talent to make the difference) is to be able to produce it over 5 sets. Fed could againt all his opponenta bar Nadal on clay but it is also tricky as surfaces were slowed down right during Fed's peak years.

Djoko and Nadal seem pretty strong mentally, Djoko certainly had this belief in his success very young and so had Murray whereas Nadal always had fear when playing but was quick to smell blood as soon as he coudl see his opponent tiring. Nadal's mental strength was also helped by a very simple plan which was, is rather, working. He does not have to think what shot he had to play next. Only when he faced Djoko that he had to think a bit more but even there I am sure Toni by the side was giving him clues like we saw when he was told to stand closer to the baseline to retrieve Berd's serve at last year's AO or the on-court coaching we keep seeing. This is why I am quite reluctant to call Nadal mentally strong. The way he lost all the key points v Djoko in 2011 simply confirmed what I always believed.

Wilander for me was a very strong player mentally, never underestimated any player and was fighting every point in the right balance, very cool headed but again helped by a superior fitness to competition.

Nowadays, besides Federer, Djoko and Murray to a much lesser extend, I woudl put Delpo, Tsip, Davydenko (when focused), Tsonga not too bad, Simon maybe as well.

We can always look at Delpo and say of course he was always strong as he won a slam at 21. But in teh details there was more to it. He was 1 points away from being thrashed in 3 very one sided at the USO final and he only played well when he realised had nothing left to lose and in the 5th set Fed was physically gone. Same when he beat Nadal at Miami (or IW), he did it from 0/4 down in the 3rd after a very surprised Nadal slip up. Lost most of all his important matches v Murray. He also had an history of not delivering in DC matches and not even turning up.

So I had arguments to believe so.

noleisthebest wrote:

laverfan wrote:Commiserations, NITB.

Nobody died

I did not say Condolences. Hopefully no one has died on a Tennis court after the linesperson who got hit by the Edberg serve.

Tenez wrote:

laverfan wrote:

Would anyone like to give any credit to Nadal for beating Berdych? I guess not.

...

What woudl you give credit for besides his amazing fitness...which is again better than ever. I certainly congratulates his conditioning team.

At least his fitness gets credit.

Tenez wrote:Do you give credit to a player for standing 6m behind the baseline on the return and wallops the ball has hard as possible hoping to obtain an UE? Not me.

Now you understand the difference between Gasquet and Moribundus. Talent is no the only dimension to a Tennis player.

Tenez wrote:And again I feel Berdych's robotic game was too easily messed up by Nadal's fizzy ball.

The same robotic game which messed up Federer when he had MPs in Dubai.

I am surprised no one else can generate the same fizzy ball. Does it require talent or amazing fitness? Perhaps Veejay can help shed some light.

This is interesting - http://bleacherreport.com/articles/340600-does-rafael-nadal-hit-with-too-much-topspin

http://www.fawcette.net/2012/02/federer-hits-with-more-spin-than-nadal-.html

Read the part that comes from John Yandell's tennisplayer.net website.

LF - Are you not surprised by how quick Rafa returned to top physical form?

You have seen how long it took delpo, Davydenko, Nalby to come back but Nadal once again in 2 weeks is back where he left despite a 8 month absence from the tour.

Can you explain that? and if you manage to don;t you allow yourself a bit of suspicion regarding his knee injuries?

laverfan wrote:

Tenez wrote:Do you give credit to a player for standing 6m behind the baseline on the return and wallops the ball has hard as possible hoping to obtain an UE? Not me.

Now you understand the difference between Gasquet and Moribundus. Talent is no the only dimension to a Tennis player.

Hi LF - Do you remember me? I am Tenez you know the guy who kept repeating that physical tennis made talent an irrelevant entity in tennis nowadays. I have been saying that for the last 7 years at the expense of being often accused of repeating myself. Looks like I have not said it enough times though.

I know right! Those were my first words as a newly born!

http://www.fawcette.net/2012/02/federer-hits-with-more-spin-than-nadal-.html

==================

Yes very good article and very much agree with Tailor dent. What Nadal does is all about power cause he hits the ball when it's pace has considerably dropped and clear lines and Net by enough margins to make it a very safe shot whereas Fed takes the ball much earlier and gives himself much less margin for errors. This is why I don't believe in Nadal using hmuch form of talent in his game. It's cleary not the point!

It's important to say that Fed doesn't hit as flat as at the beginning if his career due to the ball coming at him nowadays very different than when it was struck with nat gut by his opponents.

Tenez wrote:LF - Are you not surprised by how quick Rafa returned to top physical form?

Do you recall his loss to Zeballos? He lost sets to Berlocq.

Tenez wrote:You have seen how long it took delpo, Davydenko, Nalby to come back but Nadal once again in 2 weeks is back where he left despite a 8 month absence from the tour.

Delpo had wrist injuries and surgery. Very different from Nadal, who did not have surgery.

Davydenko has had physical limitations throughout his career.

Tenez wrote:Can you explain that? and if you manage to don;t you allow yourself a bit of suspicion regarding his knee injuries?

Lack of a public explanation (and there is one already with the Hoffa Pad Syndrome), does not necessarily equate to suspicion. I did reference Zeballos and Berlocq. Recall Berlocq almost took a set off of Murray at IW as did Gulbis take a set off of Nadal, but Berdych could not.

Don't worry. I was not expecting tangible answers...cause I do remember you.

Tenez wrote:

laverfan wrote:

Tenez wrote:Do you give credit to a player for standing 6m behind the baseline on the return and wallops the ball has hard as possible hoping to obtain an UE? Not me.

Now you understand the difference between Gasquet and Moribundus. Talent is no the only dimension to a Tennis player.

Hi LF - Do you remember me? I am Tenez you know the guy who kept repeating that physical tennis made talent an irrelevant entity in tennis nowadays. I have been saying that for the last 7 years at the expense of being often accused of repeating myself. Looks like I have not said it enough times though.

Fitness is an inherent part of the overall package. Despite the desire to separate the two, they go hand-in-hand. For example, fitness in Tennis may not equate to Fitness in 100-m Sprints (Nadal v Bolt, for example). One trains for specific aspects of a sport. Cricket is another example, where one is a good bowler or batsmen, but then you have all rounders like Botham and Kapil Dev and Imran Khan, etc.

The slowing of the courts is the biggest challenge, IMVHO. To promote a legendary rivalry aka Fedal, perhaps courts were slowed down to help Nadal get to finals on a regular basis. IW is much slower than 2012, which is even slower than 2010 (Ljubicic) when he blew away Nadal, IIRC.

The reason I picked Gasquet is because his improved fitness allowed him to win Montpellier and Doha and get to the final of Canada.

Tenez wrote:Don't worry. I was not expecting tangible answers...cause I do remember you.

You do not like the answers you get. Berdych v Federer Dubai 2013 (faster court) v Berdych v Nadal IW 2013 (sand-pit) ?

Djokovic is a prime example of changing from non-physical tennis to physical versions. Federer did the same when he switched from 2001 S&V to compete with BLs when the courts started killing S&V.

One adapts or one becomes extinct.

@T ... The other reason for the Gasquet reference is that he also stands behing 3-6m behind the BL and cannot deliver.

@T... Do you consider this a valid public explanation or are you still suspicious?

http://tennis.si.com/2012/08/21/daily-bagel-nadal-injury-hoffas-syndrome/

laverfan wrote:@T ... The other reason for the Gasquet reference is that he also stands behing 3-6m behind the BL and cannot deliver.

Exactly cause he is not as poweful so has to hit with less margins, considerably flatter.

DO you think Nadal has this huge LH arm just to please the girls?

laverfan wrote:The slowing of the courts is the biggest challenge, IMVHO. To promote a legendary rivalry aka Fedal, perhaps courts were slowed down to help Nadal get to finals on a regular basis. IW is much slower than 2012, which is even slower than 2010 (Ljubicic) when he blew away Nadal, IIRC.

The reason I picked Gasquet is because his improved fitness allowed him to win Montpellier and Doha and get to the final of Canada.

and that also helped ruin his knees in the process, as well as tennis in general;
players now walking wounded pushing their bodies to the limits in the gym in order to "stay in the game"....very short-sighted, don't you think?

Imagine if those courts stayed the same and weren't slowed down....now there's a challenge!

....and to add to the above point, Nadal has often been asking for the number of hard court tournaments to be reduced, but never sped up!

Nadal 3-0 up already. I'm still sticking by my prediction of rafa in straights, probs a no brainer.

3 all on livescore. Time to start watching

o-le o-le o-le o-leeeee delpoooooo delpoooooooooo

wow what a turnaround. I go away to watch the conclusion of xmen first class and delpo is now serving for the set.

and Delpo breaks!!!!! I just know he won't choke it serving out for the set....he's one sly customer

luvsports! wrote:wow what a turnaround. I go away to watch the conclusion of xmen first class and delpo is now serving for the set.

\dear me!!! I don't even want to know that x-man is...sounds worse than Nadal

vamos delpo!!!!

What a match!!! BOth playing really well (yes even Nadal) and Delpo winning 6 of the last 7 games.

Still I doubt Delpo will be able to keep it up.

This court suits Delpo even more than Nadal, Ellison eat your heart out!

Listening to commentary on Sky....another Yank another blabber who think he is commentating either for the blind or a radio programme....

Glad Cowan from Sky notices as well that Rafa was nervous at 4 all which made his shots shorter than in the previous games.

This is exactly how to assess someone's mental strength....deliver under pressure...not by outlasting the opponent.

Delpo, unbelievably so far His forehand is from another planet. Please still one set

Whether Delpo wins this or not I'm raising a glass of red to his comeback now , enough of Ferrer to occupy that lofty spot.
Now, don't let Kneedull break you now Delpo

Nothing I like seeing more that Nadal missing one of those cc forehands by an inch or two

nadal imploding! errors everywhere, very surprising.

Nadal trying to be too aggressive and making teh UEs...as expected. Though his attacking game has never been as good I must say.

It's a close call NITB about the court suiting Delpo better than Nadal. I don't think so. This is in my view Nadal's best court on tour. There he has both the very slow conds and can use his footwork best .

On clay he would not have that quick footing and it woudl give Delpo a bigger target.