US Open - 2019

Keep swimming!

Tenez wrote:Keep swimming!

Great rebuttal Tenez

Meanwhile, at the US Open there some tennis being played.

Today Federer beat Goffin 2, 2 & 0. I’ve never seen a match before where a man wins less than one third of the points. And certainly not when he was the #15.

Federer was very good. I’ve never seen him hit his backhand so hard, it was much bigger than in AO 17.

...but apparently Goffin was hurt. He broke Fed first and then after that could not play. ...Just what Fed said.

He didn't say Goffin was hurt ie injury, just said Goffin was struggling tennis wise.

I saw the match and Federer looked superb. Nadal has looked very good too. Djokovic has been unconvincing, but I'd expect him to step it up as he normally does when week 2 of a slam comes around.

DEC1M8 wrote:He didn't say Goffin was hurt ie injury, just said Goffin was struggling tennis wise.

Yeah of course he won't speak on behalf of Goff but he implicitly said so..."struggling".

Brutal from fed

Just got back from vaca.  Catching up … looks like nothing new:  Fed/Rafa/Nole still here.  Thiem/Tsitsipas/Khachanov out in Rd1.  Zverev played 14 sets through three rounds.  At least Medvedev is still sticking around.

As LK said, Big 3 would be crazy to retire when they see that nobody is coming up after them.

Also:  good luck Stan!

naxroy wrote:Brutal from fed

did not see any of it, but he only dropped 9 games in his last two matches.  So here is hoping he can play at the USO as well as he played at Wimbledon (minus the nerves in critical moments).

Stan draws first blood. Not super high quality tennis, but entertaining nonetheless.

5:4. Can Stan serve the set out?

Yes he can. The first set Nole has dropped this USO.

Nole breaks right away - 2:0 in the second set.  

Not too long ago, Nole was up 4:1 with a break.  Now he is 5:6 a break down.

Can Stan serve the second set out as coolly as he did in the first set?

Oh yeah!  Nole gives the set up meekly.

They are 3:3 in their last six slam matches (starting with the 2013 5-setter).  But all three of Nole's victories went 5 sets.  If Nole is to win today, it will have to be another 5-setter.

Djokovic retires having just been broken to love at 1:1.

So apparently the shoulder issue was too much.

Fed and Rafa the main favorites now.

Stan's slam wins vs Nole are getting easier and easier.

Fed big favourite now.

Wouldn’t go that far but I’d say he has a chance.

Will the USO finally get its Fedal... After 40 meetings? I love the way the USO's TDs desperately forced it through dodgy means but the tennis gods punished them in return.

I have to say I was confused with Goffin. He looked tremendous in the last round, hitting very powerfully, and though they went long there were only three sets. I was a bit worried about this match because of it.

He did look underpowered versus Fed but watching closely he was baffled by the variety; there really was no way of knowing what was coming next. I have never, ever, seen Federer hit with such power on the backhand. This was peak Stan hitting, the match point being one but by no means the best example.

Return was also excellent. How often do we see Federer dumping frustrating returns on things like break point? Didn’t happen. Of course Goffin serve isn’t a top one but it was the care he took not to waste that impressed.

I think the most vulnerable part of Federer’s game currently is the serve but I’m being hypercritical. Accuracy stats were high, and power & % good so he’s fit. These last two rounds are wonderful for the energy bank. Hopefully he can avoid Dimitrov having a top day.

bogbrush wrote:... I have never, ever, seen Federer hit with such power on the backhand....

Interesting....

I did not watch the match but it is clear to me that since adapting that new racquet and more obvious even since 2017 that not only his BH, but FH and serve are simply more powerful and more secure.

The only thing that has gone down is his feet lightness and of course recovery power.

Disappointing again to see Djokovic retire from a match. He says he couldn't continue but he could have rolled serves in and taken his medicine. It's just the way he's always been and I have no idea how many retirements there've been (and the nonsense MTO's as well) but he really shouldn't be confused as to why the love doesn't flow from the stands when he does this sort of thing.

Once again I'm going to look to the Gold Standard; >1400 matches and Federer has yet to do this. When he pulled out of the Y/E final ahead of the match he went onto Court to publicly apologise to the crowd. It's the difference between technical rights and doing what's right, and Djokovic just doesn't get it.

huge oportunity for Federer and Rafa
shall they not take it... it could be seen at last as the beginning of a new era in tennis

I don't know how it works out for other players, but of the big three:

Federer has not yet retired and he has given four W/O in a career of 1493 matches so far - 0.27%. 

Nadal has retired nine times and given five W/O in a career of 1158 - 1.2% (0.77% ret).

Djoko has retired eleven times on the main tour with one W/O out of 1061 matches so far - 1.12% (1% ret).

Fed stands out, but it's pretty impressive for all of them and there's not much to choose between Nadal/Djoko.  It looks as though Fedal are better at judging when not to play than Djoko.  A few of Djoko's retirements came early, and I remember Roddick and Federer being pretty critical in 2007, and in particular Fed.  I think what particularly narked them was Djoko's rope-a-dope tendency to look close to death one minute and then hare around like a colt with mustard up the tuckers the next.

Anyway, this dreary tournament looks as though it may be stuttering its way towards being 'saved' by a first ever Fedal meeting, and in the final too.  Nothing is in the bag, but if that happens I'll spend next Sunday night behind the sofa on this slow grinding surface .  The Women's side looks even more boring, waiting for Konta to suffer from her customary vertigo and to see if there is someone with sufficient fortitude to prevent what would otherwise be a nauseatingly glutinous Serena love-in if she makes it. 

Oh, and Kyrgios  .  One almost wants to make it a crime to show such disregard towards having a talent like that.

I think the problem for Djokovic is that he blows out mid-match with the crowd engaged ina match without seeming to appreciate what a bummer it is for the people. Sure, a w/o is disappointing too but at least the organisers can reorganise the schedule (unless it's the final!). There's also the aspect of giving his opponent the winning match point.

I have high hopes that Osaka has recovered her head sufficiently. What she showed the other day against Gauff would blast the immobile Williams away.

So this Djoko fake fuck, wins his serve 40:0, than tanks next serve and gives up, couldn't stay another 10 min on his feet to finish up a quick one 6:1 but plays injured like his legs got broken.

Fed will beat Dimi on easy 3.

Come on Cilic !!!

After first 2 poor night matches, Feds last 2 mid day one seems much better, maybe he needs some sun & heat for his old bones.

I randomly looked at a replay of a few points from Fed vs Goffin. Goffin looked atrocious from what I have seen. Hard to tell how good Fed really was.

bogbrush wrote:I think the problem for Djokovic is that he blows out mid-match with the crowd engaged ina match without seeming to appreciate what a bummer it is for the people. Sure, a w/o is disappointing too but at least the organisers can reorganise the schedule (unless it's the final!). There's also the aspect of giving his opponent the winning match point.

I have high hopes that Osaka has recovered her head sufficiently. What she showed the other day against Gauff would blast the immobile Williams away.

For all the nice as pie stuff that goes on, I would not be surprised if Osaka wants to stuff Williams good and proper and enjoy a clear-cut moment of glory without being sidetracked by histrionics.  I saw that Fed and Serena Williams commented favourably on Osaka's giving comfort to Gauff and persuading her to front up for the interview after doling out a gubbing.  Shamelessly Williams referred to it as an example of the mutual respect on tour and compared the incident to her having 'comforted' Osaka after the final last year. 

barrystar wrote:

bogbrush wrote:I think the problem for Djokovic is that he blows out mid-match with the crowd engaged ina match without seeming to appreciate what a bummer it is for the people. Sure, a w/o is disappointing too but at least the organisers can reorganise the schedule (unless it's the final!). There's also the aspect of giving his opponent the winning match point.

I have high hopes that Osaka has recovered her head sufficiently. What she showed the other day against Gauff would blast the immobile Williams away.

For all the nice as pie stuff that goes on, I would not be surprised if Osaka wants to stuff Williams good and proper and enjoy a clear-cut moment of glory without being sidetracked by histrionics.  I saw that Fed and Serena Williams commented favourably on Osaka's giving comfort to Gauff and persuading her to front up for the interview after doling out a gubbing.  Shamelessly Williams referred to it as an example of the mutual respect on tour and compared the incident to her having 'comforted' Osaka after the final last year. 

FFS! Talk about an absence of self-awareness!!!! Incredible.

barrystar wrote:Federer has not yet retired and he has given four W/O in a career of 1493 matches so far - 0.27%. 

Nadal has retired nine times and given five W/O in a career of 1158 - 1.2% (0.77% ret).

Djoko has retired eleven times on the main tour with one W/O out of 1061 matches so far - 1.12% (1% ret).

Fed stands out, but it's pretty impressive for all of them and there's not much to choose between Nadal/Djoko.

Interesting stats.  I did not realize Nole had only one w/o the whole career.  That makes his overall numbers look better than I imagined.  Somehow he seemed to me to be by far the worst of the three.  So either I was imagining it or he had more retirements/walkovers in higher profile matches.

From the article below, one can tease out retirement + walkover percentage averages across all players - albeit for slams only:

https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/21586057/tennis-failure-complete-numbers-rate-withdrawals-retirements-atp-tour

For the five years ending 2017, the number works out to be 2.52%

For 25 years ending 2017, it is 2.10%.

So Nole and Rafa still seem to be completing their matches at a higher rate than an average player.

bogbrush wrote:Disappointing again to see Djokovic retire from a match. He says he couldn't continue but he could have rolled serves in and taken his medicine. It's just the way he's always been and I have no idea how many retirements there've been (and the nonsense MTO's as well) but he really shouldn't be confused as to why the love doesn't flow from the stands when he does this sort of thing.

Once again I'm going to look to the Gold Standard; >1400 matches and Federer has yet to do this. When he pulled out of the Y/E final ahead of the match he went onto Court to publicly apologise to the crowd. It's the difference between technical rights and doing what's right, and Djokovic just doesn't get it.

Which makes me question why no love for Nadal pulling his pants down in the 2014 AO Final and allowed a Stan spanking. There is a point either before or even during a match, if you know your not fit enough to play (not win) get off court. Timing is everything.... Which leads me to the Gold Standard....

The one piece of crap behaviour I saw from Federer was this. That W/O from the YE Final and I called it at the time was appalling. He had his eye on the DC and the annoying thing with that was the DC Final was marked months ahead. He should've pulled out from the WTF that year, rather than reach the final and not participate. Going out to the paying crowd doesn't endear you to me, just more least you have the nuts to front up with the statement. It's the one rare blemish on what is a flawless record of conduct in relation to retirements and W/O's.

It's a bit rich the US crowd booing giving the cheering they did last year when Williams stuck up for the mums of this world!

The draw similarly with Wimbledon, opening up. Still so hard to get enthused about it. More so when a claycourt journeyman is in the last 16.

I imagine the would witchdoctors among us here will be carrying out sacrifices or prayers that Cillic shows up against Nadal.

The US Organisers truly must be licking their lips at the chance of a Fedal final!

legendkillar wrote:I imagine the would witchdoctors among us here will be carrying out sacrifices or prayers that Cillic shows up against Nadal.

Yup.  Working on that already.

Why do people think Rafa's draw is so super easy? It seems reasonable to me. Not particularly difficult but not remarkably easy either.

Agree with lk that Fed's w/o at the WTF in 2014 was v. much not his finest hour, but perhaps 'appalling' is a bit tough.  He came in with pretty good form and won four matches before scratching (including a mini epic vs. Stan), and he lost in straight-sets to Monfils on the first day of the DC final.  Those results tended to show that the problems which caused him to scratch were both late in coming, i.e. not necessarily predictable when he entered the WTF, and genuine enough.  Maybe he would have risked them if Switzerland were not in the DC final....

legendkillar wrote:

bogbrush wrote:Disappointing again to see Djokovic retire from a match. He says he couldn't continue but he could have rolled serves in and taken his medicine. It's just the way he's always been and I have no idea how many retirements there've been (and the nonsense MTO's as well) but he really shouldn't be confused as to why the love doesn't flow from the stands when he does this sort of thing.

Once again I'm going to look to the Gold Standard; >1400 matches and Federer has yet to do this. When he pulled out of the Y/E final ahead of the match he went onto Court to publicly apologise to the crowd. It's the difference between technical rights and doing what's right, and Djokovic just doesn't get it.

Which makes me question why no love for Nadal pulling his pants down in the 2014 AO Final and allowed a Stan spanking. There is a point either before or even during a match, if you know your not fit enough to play (not win) get off court. Timing is everything.... Which leads me to the Gold Standard....

The one piece of crap behaviour I saw from Federer was this. That W/O from the YE Final and I called it at the time was appalling. He had his eye on the DC and the annoying thing with that was the DC Final was marked months ahead. He should've pulled out from the WTF that year, rather than reach the final and not participate. Going out to the paying crowd doesn't endear you to me, just more least you have the nuts to front up with the statement. It's the one rare blemish on what is a flawless record of conduct in relation to retirements and W/O's.

It's a bit rich the US crowd booing giving the cheering they did last year when Williams stuck up for the mums of this world!

I do kind of agree on the Federer one there; I think he made a choice between the final and the DC which had there been no DC I suspect he'd have played in which case it was naughty. Or maybe he wouldn't have played it anyway in which case it was just what it was, I don't know. I am sure he believed he was fine to play both going in, it was only really that crazy Stan semi-final that screwed it all up.

Yes, Nadal took his punishment from Stan and he deserves credit for that. Didn't he also accept it off Del Potro in 2009 at the USO semi? That's exactly what I'm saying Djokovic should have done last night, I doubt very much it was truly health threatening and also in Nadals favour once or twice I think he did believe his knees where at threat if he'd carried on.

The American thing with Williams is soooo rooted in woke virtue signalling, rich white guilt and the media. It's quite revolting really.

summerblues wrote:

legendkillar wrote:I imagine the would witchdoctors among us here will be carrying out sacrifices or prayers that Cillic shows up against Nadal.

Yup.  Working on that already.

Surely time for Amrit to come on and go full jinxing.

legendkillar wrote:...I imagine the would witchdoctors among us here will be carrying out sacrifices or prayers that Cillic shows up against Nadal.

...no need to jinx for me. Federer v Nadal will win again....if no storm conds of course.

Tenez wrote:

legendkillar wrote:...I imagine the would witchdoctors among us here will be carrying out sacrifices or prayers that Cillic shows up against Nadal.

...no need to jinx for me. Federer v Nadal will win again....if no storm conds of course.

It looks as though that's exactly what they will have when Dorian has petered out and traveled up the coast. I cannot imagine what it's like in the Bahamas now poor things.

barrystar wrote:Agree with lk that Fed's w/o at the WTF in 2014 was v. much not his finest hour, but perhaps 'appalling' is a bit tough.  He came in with pretty good form and won four matches before scratching (including a mini epic vs. Stan), and he lost in straight-sets to Monfils on the first day of the DC final.  Those results tended to show that the problems which caused him to scratch were both late in coming, i.e. not necessarily predictable when he entered the WTF, and genuine enough.  Maybe he would have risked them if Switzerland were not in the DC final....

I thought of it as appalling given how much time there was to make a decision. I mean he had months. He's been spot on with scheduling. Plus such a statement would've given the DC the shot in the arm it needed (and still does!) that a top player puts stock in it.

Even now it strikes me odd someone reaches the final and pulls out. I could've even stomached a tank in the group stages. I just think if you go that far, just see it out. To then have the paying crowd endure an exhibition match was the poo frosting on a poo cake!

barrystar wrote:

Tenez wrote:

legendkillar wrote:...I imagine the would witchdoctors among us here will be carrying out sacrifices or prayers that Cillic shows up against Nadal.

...no need to jinx for me. Federer v Nadal will win again....if no storm conds of course.

It looks as though that's exactly what they will have when Dorian has petered out and traveled up the coast. I cannot imagine what it's like in the Bahamas now poor things.

...as long as the roof holds tight!

Tenez wrote:

barrystar wrote:

Tenez wrote:

legendkillar wrote:...I imagine the would witchdoctors among us here will be carrying out sacrifices or prayers that Cillic shows up against Nadal.

...no need to jinx for me. Federer v Nadal will win again....if no storm conds of course.

It looks as though that's exactly what they will have when Dorian has petered out and traveled up the coast. I cannot imagine what it's like in the Bahamas now poor things.

...as long as the roof holds tight!

They'll close it for rain, but wind?

legendkillar wrote:

barrystar wrote:Agree with lk that Fed's w/o at the WTF in 2014 was v. much not his finest hour, but perhaps 'appalling' is a bit tough.  He came in with pretty good form and won four matches before scratching (including a mini epic vs. Stan), and he lost in straight-sets to Monfils on the first day of the DC final.  Those results tended to show that the problems which caused him to scratch were both late in coming, i.e. not necessarily predictable when he entered the WTF, and genuine enough.  Maybe he would have risked them if Switzerland were not in the DC final....

I thought of it as appalling given how much time there was to make a decision. I mean he had months. He's been spot on with scheduling. Plus such a statement would've given the DC the shot in the arm it needed (and still does!) that a top player puts stock in it.

Even now it strikes me odd someone reaches the final and pulls out. I could've even stomached a tank in the group stages. I just think if you go that far, just see it out. To then have the paying crowd endure an exhibition match was the poo frosting on a poo cake!

He perhaps should have given Paris a miss after winning Shanghai and Basel, but it did look as though the problem cropped up then and there.

I get your wider point - Federer usually gets this stuff right.

bogbrush wrote:

legendkillar wrote:

bogbrush wrote:Disappointing again to see Djokovic retire from a match. He says he couldn't continue but he could have rolled serves in and taken his medicine. It's just the way he's always been and I have no idea how many retirements there've been (and the nonsense MTO's as well) but he really shouldn't be confused as to why the love doesn't flow from the stands when he does this sort of thing.

Once again I'm going to look to the Gold Standard; >1400 matches and Federer has yet to do this. When he pulled out of the Y/E final ahead of the match he went onto Court to publicly apologise to the crowd. It's the difference between technical rights and doing what's right, and Djokovic just doesn't get it.

Which makes me question why no love for Nadal pulling his pants down in the 2014 AO Final and allowed a Stan spanking. There is a point either before or even during a match, if you know your not fit enough to play (not win) get off court. Timing is everything.... Which leads me to the Gold Standard....

The one piece of crap behaviour I saw from Federer was this. That W/O from the YE Final and I called it at the time was appalling. He had his eye on the DC and the annoying thing with that was the DC Final was marked months ahead. He should've pulled out from the WTF that year, rather than reach the final and not participate. Going out to the paying crowd doesn't endear you to me, just more least you have the nuts to front up with the statement. It's the one rare blemish on what is a flawless record of conduct in relation to retirements and W/O's.

It's a bit rich the US crowd booing giving the cheering they did last year when Williams stuck up for the mums of this world!

I do kind of agree on the Federer one there; I think he made a choice between the final and the DC which had there been no DC I suspect he'd have played in which case it was naughty. Or maybe he wouldn't have played it anyway in which case it was just what it was, I don't know. I am sure he believed he was fine to play both going in, it was only really that crazy Stan semi-final that screwed it all up.

Yes, Nadal took his punishment from Stan and he deserves credit for that. Didn't he also accept it off Del Potro in 2009 at the USO semi? That's exactly what I'm saying Djokovic should have done last night, I doubt very much it was truly health threatening and also in Nadals favour once or twice I think he did believe his knees where at threat if he'd carried on.

The American thing with Williams is soooo rooted in woke virtue signalling, rich white guilt and the media. It's quite revolting really.

Federer had so much time to plan and even decide. That was my issue. It just seemed amateur hour he realised he was in too deep to a tournament that was going to impact performance levels in a bigger match round the corner. As I said above. He's spot on with scheduling normally.

Nadal did indeed take a Del Potro spanking at the US 09. I know he's been far from perfect, but he does at times show some respect by staying out there if he has a leg to stand on. I agree last night. Just odd to wait that long to say "Yeah I'm not fit enough." Plus he won't be in action until Shanghai one imagines, so plenty of time for rest and recovery.

Funny you say about that. Was laughing at a FB post whereby someone commented on a BBC link to a story about Osaka and someone in jest said "Crikey Beeb not reporting on Serena?" to which someone of colour remarked "Typical white man doing anything to keep a black successful female down!" which pretty much sums up the laziness in racism.

barrystar wrote:

legendkillar wrote:

barrystar wrote:Agree with lk that Fed's w/o at the WTF in 2014 was v. much not his finest hour, but perhaps 'appalling' is a bit tough.  He came in with pretty good form and won four matches before scratching (including a mini epic vs. Stan), and he lost in straight-sets to Monfils on the first day of the DC final.  Those results tended to show that the problems which caused him to scratch were both late in coming, i.e. not necessarily predictable when he entered the WTF, and genuine enough.  Maybe he would have risked them if Switzerland were not in the DC final....

I thought of it as appalling given how much time there was to make a decision. I mean he had months. He's been spot on with scheduling. Plus such a statement would've given the DC the shot in the arm it needed (and still does!) that a top player puts stock in it.

Even now it strikes me odd someone reaches the final and pulls out. I could've even stomached a tank in the group stages. I just think if you go that far, just see it out. To then have the paying crowd endure an exhibition match was the poo frosting on a poo cake!

He perhaps should have given Paris a miss after winning Shanghai and Basel, but it did look as though the problem cropped up then and there.

I get your wider point - Federer usually gets this stuff right.

He should've missed the WTF given how close it was to the DC. I think now the gap is 2 weeks? The WTF he would still be in contention the following year whereas DC, totally dependent on other team members performance and fitness levels.

Absolutely. He's spot on normally, but this is the one rarity where he wasn't.

That's a bit tough; it only happened because of that epic with Stan. Had that been a reasonable match I'm certain there'd have been no problem. He could hardly anticipate that could he? 

That one is especially stupid when you consider Osaka's mixed race! And to put my own circumstance in context I speak as a man whose grandson is mixed race. He got his mums (fair) complexion and his Dads (curly) hair. Looks rather stylish actually.

I'd disagree with LK here.

Can we say to a player who reaches the Final of a prestigious tournament that he should have rested because his back deteriorated along the way?

That does not make sense to me. And as we know a back pain can come and go.

We saw how Fed won Wimbledon 2012 with a back pain where we thought for a while he would lose to in straight sets to Benetteau. There was always a risk he would feel just too much pain after his Benetteau match and "should have retired or simply not enter Wimbledon as some of us saw a clear pain at the FO 12 already (well documented here).

No I am afraid, one cannot blame Federer for withdrawing from that London final. Sad....but hey that's sport.

On the other hand I agree that Djoko shouldl have made the effort to roll the ball 2 more service games and give the win to Stan and the crowd.

However if I were Djoko, I would not care much about the crowd....they don't really like him and it seems they never will. So why please them? Lendl was the same in a different style. I loved the fact Lendl was disliked by most and loved by a few. Djoko is simply liked by Serbs...not many outside the country.