Re: Aus open final

by noleisthebest Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:52 pm

luvsports! wrote:It's at the girlfriend's

Aaaaah, so you had bird flu! Winking

by noleisthebest Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:55 pm

Strange thing about Federer is I don’t experience him as an athlete at all, more like an artist... a violinist or pianist.

Someone in his own distant world where dust and mud don’t happen.

by Daniel Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:02 pm

Highlight of the match was Tenez and a few others calling Cilic useless and a bottler, then going through to dread and proclaiming it all over. Laugh

Federer's first serve really is bad under the worst pressure though. Has been that way a while. 36% in set 4 is abysmal. It;s why he lost too many to Djok. But he's also been pretty solid in final sets more recently too. An amazing achievement... 20 Slams. Cool

by noleisthebest Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:28 pm

Another thought came to me...

Those tears look like a goodbye.
From the heart.

As if the sadness because of it is greater than the joy of winning.

So 2018 is going to be very poignant.

Maybe I am wrong...

by gallery play Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:07 pm

I also saw it as goodbye to the Aussies, most of his speech was about 'm

by bogbrush Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:19 pm

I felt a bit that way, but then I read all this and think he was just super wobbly about #20, especially knowing he was very close to losing this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/42851204

“"Exciting times ahead. As a professional, it's what we do. But I'm happy I'm in that position right now."

by summerblues Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:00 pm

That was my first thought too - nothing about coming back next year but instead tears. But then again, Fed does cry a lot during these moments, and this was a big - and ultimately hard fought - win, so maybe we are reading too much into it.

by noleisthebest Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:21 pm

I wish Fed played clay this year, though.
At least one tournament.

by summerblues Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:12 pm

Fed won three slam titles in the last 12 months. In some countries players get knighted for winning that many during their entire career.

Or: Fed won as many slams after age 35 as Andy did in his lifetime. And if I were to pick which of the two is good for another one, I would not go with Sir Andrew.

by barrystar Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:12 pm

Fed did not say see you next year at the end last time either. He is taking it as it comes with the explicit intention of prolonging his career. I think that when the time comes he will pre-announce a few tournaments in advance because he is likely to reason that the fans would like to be involved in a farewell.

by gallery play Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:15 pm

bogbrush wrote:I felt a bit that way, but then I read all this and think he was just super wobbly about #20, especially knowing he was very close to losing this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/42851204

“"Exciting times ahead. As a professional, it's what we do. But I'm happy I'm in that position right now."

But he also said:

Q. Is that the first time you've felt that way?
ROGER FEDERER: No, I've had it many times. When it's all said and done, I'll be happy that I don't have to go through these moments anymore.

by Jahu Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:27 pm

If just one clay, they he should win MC.

by noleisthebest Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:31 pm

Jahu wrote:If just one clay, they he should win MC.

Who cares about MC....a beautiful but overrated tournament.

by gallery play Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:28 pm

Ok, we can sleep now, check this clip at 5:10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfS84as9ors

by bogbrush Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:37 pm

gallery play wrote:Ok, we can sleep now, check this clip at 5:10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfS84as9ors

Oh man, that just completed the day for me!

Thanks!!!

by noleisthebest Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:38 pm

gallery play wrote:Ok, we can sleep now, check this clip at 5:10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfS84as9ors

Aaaah...thanks for putting that one to bed!
Fed looks so hapoy there like he can go and play another match!

by luvsports! Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:51 pm

In my wall-to-wall Fed glory interviews and videos, I came across this too! So relieved Big Grin

by Tenez Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:53 pm

Well do you expect him to win it next year as well? You guys have more faith than the Pope.

by noleisthebest Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:54 pm

What’s Pope got to do with faith....

by luvsports! Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:59 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
luvsports! wrote:It's at the girlfriend's
Aaaaah, so you had bird flu!

Haha!

by bogbrush Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:16 pm

Tenez wrote:Well do you expect him to win it next year as well? You guys have more faith than the Pope.

Being delighted he intends to play on beyond this year has got nothing at all to do with expecting him to win this in 2019. It’s about knowing the career is still alive, still aspirational and open ended.

by bogbrush Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:20 am

Fascinating insight from Federer various interviews about the final. Essentially;

1. He spent all day locked in a mental process of “oh boy if I win this” alternating with “ oh my God, what if I lose this?”. That’s is very tiring, I’ve been there myself. He even said it was a good job he didn’t get up until 11 or he’d have been frazzled.
That kind of mental trap is terrible and very hard to escape. You can try diversion but really what’s going to distract from the upcoming final, especially since the team will have been going through preparations.

2. In the match he had the same problem, alternating between looking ahead to picking up the trophy when he was drawing away, through to “ok, just don’t screw it up now”, especially during the 4th set at a break up (which inevitably means you do just that) and a feeling of panic and inevitable loss, after which he’d shake it off and go ahead, restarting the cycle.

3. He admitted he got lucky with Cilic missing some key shots particularly in game 1 of the 5th and that had he dropped serve there he feels he wouldn’t have got back (as an aside, that must make uncomfortable reading for Cilic!).

Essentially, he lost control of his head all day which explained the tears at the end. The cause was obvious - 20. Federer really is about setting unattainable records (I always thought that’s why he cried at AO 09, he thought beating Sampras was slipping away). I think this is part of why he’s not going to retire while he can do anything to secure that legacy.

He wants to be Rod Laver.

by Tenez Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:39 am

I watched a bit of the second and 4th and 5th set again..without the high emotions.

Federer losing 5 games in a row from 3/1 up in the 4th is very unlike him. As we know his 1st serve %age dropped in the 30s. In fact he takes a break at the end of it and is close to lose another serve with 2 BPs. So clearly his level then is very far from that first set where he was moving fast and pinpoint accuracy on his serve.

But hey...Wow...Cilic threw that 5th set away in some choking fashion. I did not even realise to which extend until I reviewed it again! First missing those 2 BPs in that first game...2 FHs so wild....and one of them was a gimme.

But then his serve...2 DFs and some more crazy FHs going everywhere except in the court, completely UEs. No justification. With a bit of composure he shoudl have been 2/0 up and not down. Federer does well to steady the ship and I think gets heart at seeing Cilic falling apart in those key moments.

Had he won that TB where he was a mini break up, Fed woudl have won this in 3 comfortably. Well done on Cilic to having made the most of Fed's inconsistency.....but certainly not impressed my Cilic yet. And I am pretty sure the future will confirm it.

by raiders_of_the_lost_ark Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:41 am

gallery play wrote:I also saw it as goodbye to the Aussies, most of his speech was about 'm

http://www.news18.com/news/sports/australian-open-champion-roger-federer-plans-title-defence-in-2019-1644285.html

"Yeah, I'd love to come back. I know I forgot to say that after the match," a bleary-eyed Federer told reporters on Monday. "But I hope I come back again next year."

by raiders_of_the_lost_ark Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:45 am

Tenez wrote:I watched a bit of the second and 4th and 5th set again..without the high emotions.

Federer losing 5 games in a row from 3/1 up in the 4th is very unlike him. As we know his 1st serve %age dropped in the 30s. In fact he takes a break at the end of it and is close to lose another serve with 2 BPs. So clearly his level then is very far from that first set where he was moving fast and pinpoint accuracy on his serve.

But hey...Wow...Cilic threw that 5th set away in some choking fashion. I did not even realise to which extend until I reviewed it again! First missing those 2 BPs in that first game...2 FHs so wild....and one of them was a gimme.

But then his serve...2 DFs and some more crazy FHs going everywhere except in the court, completely UEs. No justification. With a bit of composure he shoudl have been 2/0 up and not down. Federer does well to steady the ship and I think gets heart at seeing Cilic falling apart in those key moments.

Had he won that TB where he was a mini break up, Fed woudl have won this in 3 comfortably. Well done on Cilic to having made the most of Fed's inconsistency.....but certainly not impressed my Cilic yet. And I am pretty sure the future will confirm it.

Right. This was perhaps Fed's worst performance in a slam final resulting in a win.

by barrystar Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:45 am

@bb - The other fascinating thing about this is the freedom he feels to let us in on his agonising. Before AO17 he played his cards much closer to his chest in interviews (even if sometimes his emotions got the better of him in public). That is normal because these guys don't want to give anything to their opponents, so blandness in interview is the order of the day.

Since Fed's renaissance or, as he puts it, the dream come true, of AO17 so much weight has come off his shoulders. He's even talked about how tough it was feeling that Nadal/Djoko et al were snuffing out his slam opportunities. So, for a guy who has always been more open than most, we have another level of openness to his interviews - it's great being told in real time what is happening. And yet, despite that obvious freedom and state of (relative) relaxation, he still worked himself up into a huge froth for this one.

I wonder what we'd hear from Nadal and Djoko if they let the mask slip to the same extent (and I am not critising them for not doing so); they must experience similar furious internal battles.

by Tenez Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:53 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Tenez wrote:I watched a bit of the second and 4th and 5th set again..without the high emotions.

Federer losing 5 games in a row from 3/1 up in the 4th is very unlike him. As we know his 1st serve %age dropped in the 30s. In fact he takes a break at the end of it and is close to lose another serve with 2 BPs. So clearly his level then is very far from that first set where he was moving fast and pinpoint accuracy on his serve.

But hey...Wow...Cilic threw that 5th set away in some choking fashion. I did not even realise to which extend until I reviewed it again! First missing those 2 BPs in that first game...2 FHs so wild....and one of them was a gimme.

But then his serve...2 DFs and some more crazy FHs going everywhere except in the court, completely UEs. No justification. With a bit of composure he shoudl have been 2/0 up and not down. Federer does well to steady the ship and I think gets heart at seeing Cilic falling apart in those key moments.

Had he won that TB where he was a mini break up, Fed woudl have won this in 3 comfortably. Well done on Cilic to having made the most of Fed's inconsistency.....but certainly not impressed my Cilic yet. And I am pretty sure the future will confirm it.

Right. This was perhaps Fed's worst performance in a slam final resulting in a win.

Yep. Though I am convinced Nadal made him look better than he was last year. He had a groin issue ..or so he says.

by Daniel Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:21 am

lol... no. Just no. Last year Federer played some fantastic stuff and the stats tell the picture.

by noleisthebest Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:29 am

barrystar wrote:@bb - The other fascinating thing about this is the freedom he feels to let us in on his agonising. Before AO17 he played his cards much closer to his chest in interviews (even if sometimes his emotions got the better of him in public). That is normal because these guys don't want to give anything to their opponents, so blandness in interview is the order of the day.

Since Fed's renaissance or, as he puts it, the dream come true, of AO17 so much weight has come off his shoulders. He's even talked about how tough it was feeling that Nadal/Djoko et al were snuffing out his slam opportunities. So, for a guy who has always been more open than most, we have another level of openness to his interviews - it's great being told in real time what is happening. And yet, despite that obvious freedom and state of (relative) relaxation, he still worked himself up into a huge froth for this one.

I wonder what we'd hear from Nadal and Djoko if they let the mask slip to the same extent (and I am not critising them for not doing so); they must experience similar furious internal battles.

You’ll never hear it from Nole, not his style, though he wears his heart on his sleeve ON the court...it’s easy to see what goes through his mind and he often vents out his frustration or talks to himself in Serbian which I can of course understand.

But in his heart of hearts he is a stoic.

When he cries, it’s a really big deal, which is why I posted this thread about it last year.

https://ourtennisforum.forumotion.co.uk/t1164-why-is-novak-djokovic-crying?highlight=Djokovic

by bogbrush Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:08 pm

barrystar wrote:@bb - The other fascinating thing about this is the freedom he feels to let us in on his agonising. Before AO17 he played his cards much closer to his chest in interviews (even if sometimes his emotions got the better of him in public). That is normal because these guys don't want to give anything to their opponents, so blandness in interview is the order of the day.

Since Fed's renaissance or, as he puts it, the dream come true, of AO17 so much weight has come off his shoulders. He's even talked about how tough it was feeling that Nadal/Djoko et al were snuffing out his slam opportunities. So, for a guy who has always been more open than most, we have another level of openness to his interviews - it's great being told in real time what is happening. And yet, despite that obvious freedom and state of (relative) relaxation, he still worked himself up into a huge froth for this one.

I wonder what we'd hear from Nadal and Djoko if they let the mask slip to the same extent (and I am not critising them for not doing so); they must experience similar furious internal battles.

I think it's all symptomatic of the feeling that he's got nothing left to prove, he's playing with the house money in that respect. Must be great to feel that by doing this resurgence thing he's kind of put an end to the idea that he was eclipsed. Incredibly, I give him more chance of winning more Slams in the future than Murray and Nadal but less than a fit Djokovic.

by barrystar Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:26 pm

Agree about playing with house money - but not so sure that he has more chance of more slams in the future than Nadal as of now. I think the current gap of 4 means Fed is a stronger favourite than ever before to stay ahead on the final tally, but I see Nadal having either similar, or even slightly more, opportunities to pick up slams and narrow the gap before they are both done.

Amazing how their's is once again the most interesting rivalry 11+ years after it kicked off in earnest.

by gallery play Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:27 pm

Tenez wrote:I watched a bit of the second and 4th and 5th set again..without the high emotions.

Federer losing 5 games in a row from 3/1 up in the 4th is very unlike him. As we know his 1st serve %age dropped in the 30s. In fact he takes a break at the end of it and is close to lose another serve with 2 BPs. So clearly his level then is very far from that first set where he was moving fast and pinpoint accuracy on his serve.

But hey...Wow...Cilic threw that 5th set away in some choking fashion. I did not even realise to which extend until I reviewed it again! First missing those 2 BPs in that first game...2 FHs so wild....and one of them was a gimme.

But then his serve...2 DFs and some more crazy FHs going everywhere except in the court, completely UEs. No justification. With a bit of composure he shoudl have been 2/0 up and not down. Federer does well to steady the ship and I think gets heart at seeing Cilic falling apart in those key moments.

Had he won that TB where he was a mini break up, Fed woudl have won this in 3 comfortably. Well done on Cilic to having made the most of Fed's inconsistency.....but certainly not impressed my Cilic yet. And I am pretty sure the future will confirm it.

When Federer was BP down first game final set, he knew he had 1 weapon left: his aura. He had to remind Marin who he was facing. I never heard "Chum Jetze!" as loud as when he won those bp's. His intensity was huge at that point. I'll give Marin a break, who could possibly resist an on fire Federer? Even Nadal couldn't.
In my opinion Fed learned how the play a fifth set only in the latter part of his. We used to see him implode in a fifth set, whereas nowadays he knows how to use his presence. So yes, Marin's mistakes didn't came out of the blue.

I wasn't surprised with how things went in the fifth, i was more surprised he played so passively after the first set.

by Tenez Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:48 pm

gallery play wrote:When Federer was BP down first game final set, he knew he had 1 weapon left: his aura. He had to remind Marin who he was facing. I never heard "Chum Jetze!" as loud as when he won those bp's. His intensity was huge at that point. I'll give Marin a break, who could possibly resist an on fire Federer? Even Nadal couldn't.
In my opinion Fed learned how the play a fifth set only in the latter part of his. We used to see him implode in a fifth set, whereas nowadays he knows how to use his presence. So yes, Marin's mistakes didn't came out of the blue.

It's questionable. Had Federer had to score long rally points in those previous sets, I am not sure he woudl have had the stamina to beat a Djoko...he did it last year just...but a 2 day rest before the final and 6 months rest earlier helped...plus I don't think Nadal's game has any secret for him..if it was not for the groin I think we agree he would not have lost a set.

I wasn't surprised with how things went in the fifth, i was more surprised he played so passively after the first set.

I knew he woudl give it all..but with just a 30% first serve in that 4th set...I was not sure of anything....in fact I felt that Cilic smelling blood would finally play without choking...but guess what..asa he saw the line he melted.

by Slippy Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:40 pm

I’d say this and Wimbledon 2009 were probably the two worst winning finals Federer has played. Really, he didn’t do much during sets 2 to 4 other than hope Cilic would miss. Cilic was dictating the majority of points. Whilst there was some magnificent defence, we saw very little of Fed in full flow. It was only towards the end, once Cilic had collapsed, that we saw more of the real Fed. Probably no coincidence that it was to pass the slam record and to reach 20 which were so nervy.

by Slippy Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:42 pm

gallery play wrote:
Tenez wrote:I watched a bit of the second and 4th and 5th set again..without the high emotions.

Federer losing 5 games in a row from 3/1 up in the 4th is very unlike him. As we know his 1st serve %age dropped in the 30s. In fact he takes a break at the end of it and is close to lose another serve with 2 BPs. So clearly his level then is very far from that first set where he was moving fast and pinpoint accuracy on his serve.

But hey...Wow...Cilic threw that 5th set away in some choking fashion. I did not even realise to which extend until I reviewed it again! First missing those 2 BPs in that first game...2 FHs so wild....and one of them was a gimme.

But then his serve...2 DFs and some more crazy FHs going everywhere except in the court, completely UEs. No justification. With a bit of composure he shoudl have been 2/0 up and not down. Federer does well to steady the ship and I think gets heart at seeing Cilic falling apart in those key moments.

Had he won that TB where he was a mini break up, Fed woudl have won this in 3 comfortably. Well done on Cilic to having made the most of Fed's inconsistency.....but certainly not impressed my Cilic yet. And I am pretty sure the future will confirm it.

When Federer was BP down first game final set, he knew he had 1 weapon left: his aura. He had to remind Marin who he was facing. I never heard "Chum Jetze!" as loud as when he won those bp's. His intensity was huge at that point. I'll give Marin a break, who could possibly resist an on fire Federer? Even Nadal couldn't.
In my opinion Fed learned how the play a fifth set only in the latter part of his. We used to see him implode in a fifth set, whereas nowadays he knows how to use his presence. So yes, Marin's mistakes didn't came out of the blue.

I wasn't surprised with how things went in the fifth, i was more surprised he played so passively after the first set.

Excellent post, although I’m not sure Fed was really on fire in the fifth - it wasn’t like last year when he raised his level and blew Nadal away. This year I felt he hung in there and Cilic imploded. He’s definitely far better in 5th sets now though.

by bogbrush Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:43 pm

Agree, it's all there in the interviews where he says his mind was wandering, he'd spent all day in a right state. That's what the tears were all about.

I think he's clear now and if they played this again we might expect to see better focus throughout.

by Slippy Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:51 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Slippy wrote:Very disappointing finish as a neutral. I’d hoped Fed would raise his game but instead Cilic has collapsed. That said, Fed’s fitness for a 36 year old is nothing short of astonishing.

20 slams is a simply incredible achievement. Definitely for me cemented his position as the greatest now.

Now.. after 30Finals and 20 slams? It took you this long Slippy? Fed was regarded has the greatest ever since 2005 by experts . He was well regarded as beating Pete's 14 even before he had won 5 slams.

This just emphasises the hyperbole which surrounds present day stars. He certainly couldn’t sensibly be regarded as the greatest in 2005. Djokovic was being proclaimed by some as the greatest ever only 2 years ago.

If he hadn’t won the last three slams he’s picked up, I think Nadal would have had a reasonable argument to at least have been his equal (as they’d both be on 17 slams in that scenario with Nadal having the h2h), although I appreciate there are other arguments in favour of Fed. That ignores Laver with two CYGS who is very tough to compare but could well have won far more than 20 but for the pro era. For me, it’s the longevity and the fact he’s found a way to deal with Nadal which cements it in my opinion.

by Tenez Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:54 pm

bogbrush wrote:Agree, it's all there in the interviews where he says his mind was wandering, he'd spent all day in a right state. That's what the tears were all about.

I think he's clear now and if they played this again we might expect to see better focus throughout.

Yeah...I know he has been saying he was nervous to the point of "having frozen legs" with mind wandering...but look at that first set...did he look nervous? That's usually where nerves show. Not after having won the first set comfortably.

A few of his matches have been plugged with drop of form. It did not start in that 20th slams but has been like that v Tommy Haas, Donskoy, Goffin, and many in the previous years. It became apparent to me since FO 2012.

One thing I seriously doubt though is that "nerves" would freeze Fed's leg in that second set. We know him too well. Superb serving in set 1 and then 2 double faults in one game and precision erratic, with FHs starting to misfire badly.

From then on he did not do anything to take the match to Cilic but tried to contain him.

by gallery play Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:58 pm

Slippy wrote:This year I felt he hung in there and Cilic imploded.

True, Cilic had it coming when he df'ed twice, but that was after Federer showing up again, expressly in his face!

by bogbrush Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:00 pm

Let's remember that the 4th set comeback was partly as a result of Cilic redlining and getting it to work. The 5th set could be seen as the strategy not holding up all the way.

by barrystar Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:03 pm

bogbrush wrote:Agree, it's all there in the interviews where he says his mind was wandering, he'd spent all day in a right state. That's what the tears were all about.

I think he's clear now and if they played this again we might expect to see better focus throughout.

Until the next major milestone; he was pretty clear that he was spooked by the prospect of #20. When you look, every possible future slam final would be a milestone for that individual slam - W#9, USO#6, & AO#7 - although none with the totemic significance of #20 overall.

by bogbrush Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:13 pm

Hmm, only AO & US (W is just extending his own, unless he got to 10, which I can dream of).

by summerblues Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:13 am

Slippy wrote:He’s definitely far better in 5th sets now though.

Strange but true. He was 23-20 in 5-set matches prior to last year. He is 6-0 since then.

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