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Equal pay in tennis for men and women?

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Equal pay in tennis for men and women? Empty Equal pay in tennis for men and women?

Post by luvsports! on Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:42 pm

I am going to do an article on this (a lot more research required) but before I do I want your views.

1) The bo3 vs bo5 set argument. It's more down to scheduling now imo but as the men play bo5, should they get paid more? Atm it is the same and in some bo3 tournies women get more at the big events but less at the smaller ones. 

2) Market issue - Bums on seats, revenue, advertising, tv coverage. Now, the atp tour is more popular. If you split up slams, the fans would follow the men more than the women.

3) They get paid v well so I don't care really and I think it is good that there is a sport that gives women parity as despite male sports being a lot more popular, the disproportionate amount of money they earn is too stark imo.

Thoughts?

luvsports!

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Equal pay in tennis for men and women? Empty Re: Equal pay in tennis for men and women?

Post by Tenez on Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:00 pm

My answer is mixed.

1 -  Since 1970 It's "professional" tennis, hence most of the money on the table should be  money for the players. Should WTA bring more revenue than ATP then they should get more money, even if they play best of 3 games and not best of 3 sets. Time on court is irrelevant. However we know people are more interested in the ATP than WTA...hence it is currently unfair on men.

2 - One may argue that though people are not as interested in Women tennis, it is ethically right to pay them the same...on some key tournaments (slams essentially). i don't agree much with this thinking but it could be argued.

I think it would be very fair if that was dictated by sponsors (It is already except for slams and TMS1000).

Tenez

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Equal pay in tennis for men and women? Empty Re: Equal pay in tennis for men and women?

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:06 am

Women.

Poor things...they play with so much heart but their tennis is so dull.

I don't think I'd ever pay a penny to watch it. Not even Justine Henin. Let alone wake up in the middle of the night or travel abroad!

That's just how it is...

But I know many fans live off tennis players' winning, particularly Serena's...she is black people's light at the end of tunnel, her supporters are ferocious...worse than Nadal's...much worse!

Winning seems to be the magnet.

And finally money...

Never understood media's obsession with how much anyone gets paid.

But since we are dragged into their tiny way of thinking, all I can say is I hope men are not suffering because of them...especially the lower ranked ones.

Though I have loved, enjoyed and played sports all my life, I don't think women can match men in the fullness of performance and depth in tennis.

Young professional women are too emotional and as a result their tennis is simple and a one dimensional affair.

Their fights are basic, they lack higher nobleness men's game always brings...regardless of the actual quality of play.

There is rarely any chess going on, let alone living and dying.

How many of paying tennis fans care for tennis at deeper level and many want just the short lived winning fix?

I hear women are allowed to scream because men like it, is that true?

noleisthebest

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:19 am

And while media want us to hate women and stone match fixers...here lies the real question/problem/root of unequal pay:

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2015/08/italian-tennis-players-bracciali-starace-banned-for-fixing/55865/#.VcR3RGK9KSM

noleisthebest

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:31 am


noleisthebest

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Equal pay in tennis for men and women? Empty Re: Equal pay in tennis for men and women?

Post by Autumnleaf on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:23 am

Man and woman are not created equal. It may not be pc to make this point, but it still stands. If they were equal they could easily compete in one tour, no need for 2. As it is men sports will be superior to women sport wrt performance level. Men are faster and stronger on average than women. This is due to significantly greater muscle mass and lower body fat percentage. The best way for a woman to dope is to become more similar to a man.



Men can endure heat better than women. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22272518 
 
The physiological difference between men and women will make men better athletes.

Important specifically for tennis talent is the following difference between men and women: Men on average can track fast-moving objects better than women. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/09/120907-men-women-see-differently-science-health-vision-sex/

The inferior athletic ability of women leads to most people preferring to watch male sports. Women however can make up for their inferior athletic ability and tennis is the sport where they do it the best: play up the female look (I say this without judgment). I'll never understand why e.g. in football the girls wear the same clothes as do the men. 

If we are being honest, female sports is very often watched because people like the look of the competing girls. Or how was Anna K. one of the best earning athletes in sports? How does Sharapova earn much more than S. Williams? Looks are that much more important for female athletes than for males. Show me one example of a male athlete who isn't as accomplished as another guy, but earns a lot more just because of his looks? I'll be surprised if you find even one.

So how does all this relate to the question of equal pay? First of all - the argument who plays more sets is irrelevant in my view. A fiveset-match can be boring and a 3setter gripping. If you give premium to athletic ability, men deserve more money without a question, but it's not so simple obviously. Women should also not get the same pay just because they are women in my view, they have to generate the same value. This is about entertainment and if both genders are equally entertaining they deserve the same pay. However - ARE they equally entertaining? And are they equally entertaining to the same crowd?

There's only one way to find out the answer to these questions. Separate events and compare. E.g. does the final day of the women (with no men's play) generate as much money as the final day of the men (with no women's play). At separated master's events: how many tickets do they sell for which event and at which price? What sponsors do they attract and how much are they prepared to invest? 

Are the crowds the same? If they are not the same, a complete separation of the tours should be supported, because for fans of women tennis watching males play will not generate more entertainment value and vice versa. If they are the same and show the same interest, then women deserve equal pay.

Autumnleaf

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Post by gallery play on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:26 am

noleisthebest wrote:Women.

Poor things...they play with so much heart but their tennis is so dull.

I don't think I'd ever pay a penny to watch it. Not even Justine Henin. Let alone wake up in the middle of the night or travel abroad!

That's just how it is...

But I know many fans live off tennis players' winning, particularly Serena's...she is black people's light at the end of tunnel, her supporters are ferocious...worse than Nadal's...much worse!

Winning seems to be the magnet.

And finally money...

Never understood media's obsession with how much anyone gets paid.

But since we are dragged into their tiny way of thinking, all I can say is I hope men are not suffering because of them...especially the lower ranked ones.

Though I have loved, enjoyed and played sports all my life, I don't think women can match men in the fullness of performance and depth in tennis.

Young professional women are too emotional and as a result their tennis is simple and a one dimensional affair.

Their fights are basic, they lack higher nobleness men's game always brings...regardless of the actual quality of play.

There is rarely any chess going on, let alone living and dying.

How many of paying tennis fans care for tennis at deeper level and many want just the short lived winning fix?

I hear women are allowed to scream because men like it, is that true?
I pity the men who do. To me there's absolutely nothing exiting about screaming girls on a tennis court. It's not sexy!

And Serena.... boy, her parents picked the wrong name for her. She's more annoying than Nadal. That "can't you see what i'm going through" act! Equal pay in tennis for men and women? 2355573927  How can you bahave like that with 4954 slams under your belt?!


As for the rest i agree on all the points you're making.

gallery play

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Post by Tenez on Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:20 pm

Autumnleaf wrote:Man and woman are not created equal. It may not be pc to make this point, but it still stands. If they were equal they could easily compete in one tour, no need for 2. As it is men sports will be superior to women sport wrt performance level. Men are faster and stronger on average than women. This is due to significantly greater muscle mass and lower body fat percentage. The best way for a woman to dope is to become more similar to a man.

[....
A long explanation.....to explain the "obvious". Winking

I do believe men and women are perfectly equal....in absolute value only though....but different in almost every department.

Tenez

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Post by Autumnleaf on Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:42 pm

^^ yeah, obviously women can do other things better that men can't, they are not inferior as human beings. Hopefully nobody thought I was implying that. Big Grin They are created not equal, as in they have different strengths and weaknesses. Wrt athletic ability what we were talking about - clear edge to men.

Autumnleaf

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:15 pm

I've just read that tickets for USO women's final are sold out.

Of course, that's because Serena is attempting to win calendar slam and it happens that it's on her home soil.

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Post by summerblues on Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:54 pm

noleisthebest wrote:I've just read that tickets for USO women's final are sold out.

Of course, that's because Serena is attempting to win calendar slam and it happens that it's on her home soil.
Yes, I read somewhere this was the first time ever that women's final sold out before the men's final.  Obviously, as you say, with Serena being American and calendar slam a possibility that is a big attraction.

But even so, ladies' final tickets sell somewhat cheaper than men's final on the ticketmaster resale site (as well as having lower original price).

summerblues

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