The real gun

After Nole’s impressive win in Rome it is also necessary to point out another player, who showed a big improvement in his game. It is nobody else than Milos Raonic. I watched the most of his match with Nole and from what I saw it is clear that Milos is on a good way to become top player soon. I am not a fan of his tennis, but his overall approach to tennis, sticking to a right tactics, his focus on the game, just need to be praised. His game based on his heavy and great serve, efforts  for speeding up the ball with net approaches  does work well not only on hard but also clay courts.

I can’t remember when a player on serve with a score 0:40 on clay could hit three aces in a row and four in total during one game, and that was done against the best returner in the game ever. The serves over 230km/h from such a height it is like a racket flying at you. Who did return the serve around 200km/h can imagine what about it is. Then you need to take that a returner has a worse rebound on the clay. Your chance to return such a serve is lower than on the hard.

I see a good job from Ivo Ljubicic behind Milos’s improvement and am sure that his game will frustrate many players in the future. I am sorry for anybody who will face to him, especially in Wimbledon. I see that only thing which could hinder Milos from gaining a GS in the future is an injury.

I agree.  I've been saying it for a while, but if Raonic doesn't win a slam, I will dance around my neighbourhood in a tutu.  He is definitely on the rise, as is Dimitrov.  Nadal is on his way out.

paulcz wrote:I am not a fan of his tennis, but his overall approach to tennis, sticking to a right tactics, his focus on the game, just need to be praised.

Agree. Although I am also not a big fan of his tennis, I was quite impressed - and surprised - by his performance.

I agree with the OP..except that I do not dislike Rao's game. It does not seem to have brilliance in his shots but I simply like to see that regular SVing, especially on clay. Give Rao, proper tennis balls (smaller like they used to be in the 90s), and you will see his shoulders open up, his confidence grow, and his ace count rocketing! ..without mentioning his volley/ratio success.

The tour since the turn of the century has done all in its power to actually limit the potential of those kind of players...for the good at first and the worse now. It's Rao who made the match v Djoko interesting and not the other around. Djoko was trying to keep the ball in court while Rao was trying to attack whithout going for too much. And once again, the fitter won. In the 90s conditions Djoko would have been dispatched with ease.

There is still something that bothers me with Rao...it's his nerves. That's something he will have to conquer. It's not a deal done....and in my view the only factor which could actually stop him at Wimbledon...besides the bigger tennis balls of course.

It's good to have Raonic around, if nothing else, then to have a young player in the mix.
He's got a real weapon in his serve and it will be interesting to see how far it gets him.
Not my cup if tea in any way, though   

His volleying is actually pretty good too...not Llodra's level yet but very good.

Tenez wrote:It's Rao who made the match v Djoko interesting and not the other around. Djoko was trying to keep the ball in court while Rao was trying to attack whithout going for too much. And once again, the fitter won. In the 90s conditions Djoko would have been dispatched with ease.

There is still something that bothers me with Rao...it's his nerves. That's something he will have to conquer. It's not a deal done....and in my view the only factor which could actually stop him at Wimbledon...besides the bigger tennis balls of course.

I don't agree that Rao made the match. Not sure whether you watched that match, but there was a game only after Nole's serve in the first half of that match. If you prefer just serve fest, then yes, in this line Rao made the match. So for me, there was onlyNole, who did their match watchable. To have there another Milos instead of Nole, then I would not have seen a minute of this.

Re fitness, here I am not sure either whether you watched it. Milos shortened their rallies as possible, during the first set there was no longer rally at all. Since the second set Nole played quite freely and the match was about nerves in TB's. Milos knows that he must avoid rallying with Nole, and he sticked to this tactics very well.

So, the nerves played its role again, and TB was a breaker. But here you must know that there is also a higher pressure to a serving player than to a returner. Therefore Nole has an enormous advantage against all big servers. But it is a kind of lottery quite often.

I usually try to avoid a comparison with conditions in the past. If I could imagine playing Milos with smaller ball, he would surely have had more aces, but his base line game would suffer much more than for others. I remember matches when I relied just on the serve and it usually has not been paid off. When you serve on SP's and MP's and go for your the second serve, your nerves are just shaking. It is horrible feeling.

paulcz wrote: I am not a fan of his tennis

Hey paulcz, I'm a fan of anyone good enough to kick nadal's aXX and beat him in any given match. I don't care how he plays. If he can do it only hitting unreturnable serves, more power to him.  

FedererKing wrote:I agree.  I've been saying it for a while, but if Raonic doesn't win a slam, I will dance around my neighbourhood in a tutu.  He is definitely on the rise, as is Dimitrov.  Nadal is on his way out.

 
I predict Nishi, if he can do it, will win a slam before Raonic. Remember, I want front row seat when you're in your tutu.

SR wrote:

paulcz wrote: I am not a fan of his tennis

Hey paulcz, I'm a fan of anyone good enough to kick nadal's aXX and beat him in any given match. I don't care how he plays. If he can do it only hitting unreturnable serves, more power to him.  

Hi SR, there is absolutely no difference in our views about that clown. Now I would appreciate a match between Nadal and Milos at Wimbledon, hopefully Milos's gun will be fully loaded then 

FedererKing wrote:I agree.  I've been saying it for a while, but if Raonic doesn't win a slam, I will dance around my neighbourhood in a tutu.  He is definitely on the rise, as is Dimitrov.  Nadal is on his way out.

Agree. Milos is a killer in the game, while Dimi's approach to an opponent  is a kind of fragile. Whereas Rao does not give his opponent a chance to get into the game, Dimi's style is still a bit more playful than it should be. But surely Dimi is going to get his chance at GS  as well.

paulcz wrote:I don't agree that Rao made the match. Not sure whether you watched that match, but there was a game only after Nole's serve in the first half of that match. If you prefer just serve fest, then yes, in this line Rao made the match. So for me, there was onlyNole, who did their match watchable. To have there another Milos instead of Nole, then I would not have seen a minute of this.

I watched the first 2 sets, but not with Djoko's fan eyes! Rao served and Volleyed as well...in that sense he made the match for me. He knew there was no point rallying forever with Djoko. I commented on the thread live and Djoko was just pushing the ball...I even thought that he still had pain in his wrist. He probably felt unsure and it was obvious...so I was not impressed at all by Djoko.

Re fitness, here I am not sure either whether you watched it. Milos shortened their rallies as possible, during the first set there was no longer rally at all. Since the second set Nole played quite freely and the match was about nerves in TB's. Milos knows that he must avoid rallying with Nole, and he sticked to this tactics very well.

Well it's clear that the slams have simply be won by the fittest guy for the last 10 years...unless when it was Federer winning it.

So, the nerves played its role again, and TB was a breaker. But here you must know that there is also a higher pressure to a serving player than to a returner. Therefore Nole has an enormous advantage against all big servers. But it is a kind of lottery quite often.

Depends on the conditions. On fast conds the pressure would be on the returner. This is why in the 90s at Wimbledon it was all about servers....bar Agassi winning v a very nervous Goran.

I usually try to avoid a comparison with conditions in the past. If I could imagine playing Milos with smaller ball, he would surely have had more aces, but his base line game would suffer much more than for others. I remember matches when I relied just on the serve and it usually has not been paid off. When you serve on SP's and MP's and go for your the second serve, your nerves are just shaking. It is horrible feeling

But there would be no baseline rallies, there would be players taking a cut at the ball hoping for a winner or an UEs. Having legs then did not matter much. All the clay courters had disappeared by the 3rd round...when they bothered participating!

Tenez wrote: Well it's clear that the slams have simply be won by the fittest guy for the last 10 years...unless when it was Federer winning it.

That is the key point/truth when assessing current stage of tennis evolution.
Although it has inevitably permeated most discussions here, it is the topic which deserves another look as the new generation is beginning to emerge.
At the moment, attacking effort is starting to show two faces: the guile and ball- striking talent  of Nishikori and the brute force of Raonic.
Raonic's game is half-baked atm, still, unlike Dimi at least he is not scrambling.
I remember watching him play smaller summer hard court American tournaments a few years ago. He had no problem against lower ranked players and his game was simpler and purer.
Confidence is a potent weapon if you can tame it.
You need to be one with your game, follow the instinct though.
Any compromise, and doubt creeps in.
Different players draw their belief from different things, but that is yet another topic.

Milos modelled his game on Sampras, and what I saw in the match with Djokovic was Milos trying out the Sampras maxim - and Martina's, the queen of the s&v - that you will get passed but don't be fussed about it.  In the big picture, the strategy shifts your opponent's game.  You have to learn to deal with the lost points and be strong about forcing your game on your opponent.

I still look at every match for Milos as a learning experience.  He needs to feel the game coming at him to understand how to play it.  He is making his seed and sometimes exceeding it.  In my view, he is way ahead of the "old guys" inhabiting higher rankings who have never been able to break through because he asks questions, he doesn't just respond to what comes at him.

His calves???

In my opinion, Raonic is too conservative in his mind for a classic S&V-er.
He may want to model his game on Sampras's (and I remember the initial hype even looks comparisons) but he isn't Sampras and frankly can't be as he is playing in a different era.
Let's say he's got the serve and even volleying bit sorted (here, I am walking on water with Tenez's judgement as I haven't seen enough if his volleying to be convinced), he's got to get to the net.
If we want to seriously contemplate him as a modern, evolved S&V-er, he has a big problem of speed. He is simply too cumbersome and clanky with those huge legs.
They may help him to draw power from, but are the Achilles heel of his potential S &V game.
He struggles with lower balls at the net.
His whole intention lacks assurance and conviction.
He wants to win but doesn't want to lose, and his game reflects it.

Now why that is, there could be various reasons. Few players play more shots than they need it if they can help it.

I still think he is overhyped, but having that serve will always make him a dangerous and difficult opponent.

I'm beginning to think we're seeing some sort of Balkan ethnic thing here - Milos can do no right.

Tenez wrote: So, the nerves played its role again, and TB was a breaker. But here you must know that there is also a higher pressure to a serving player than to a returner. Therefore Nole has an enormous advantage against all big servers. But it is a kind of lottery quite often.

Depends on the conditions. On fast conds the pressure would be on the returner. This is why in the 90s at Wimbledon it was all about servers....bar Agassi winning v a very nervous Goran.

I usually try to avoid a comparison with conditions in the past. If I could imagine playing Milos with smaller ball, he would surely have had more aces, but his base line game would suffer much more than for others. I remember matches when I relied just on the serve and it usually has not been paid off. When you serve on SP's and MP's and go for your the second serve, your nerves are just shaking. It is horrible feeling

But there would be no baseline rallies, there would be players taking a cut at the ball hoping for a winner or an UEs. Having legs then did not matter much. All the clay courters had disappeared by the 3rd round...when they bothered participating![/quote]

My comments reffered to clay sessions. If I am right, there was no serving killer, who won RG just by serve. Sampras struggled, Ivanisevic without any chance and Fed due to our clown struggled as well (but he is a complete excellent player). The clay always balances between big servers and baseliners. Despite Rao's great serve, his chances even with smaller balls against baseliners at RG would be quite low. Even if he would have a great stamina, with his big body frame and an appropriate move, the chance he could serve out the whole match through TBs is very small. You can go for winners after your great serve, but you must also play on returns. The game between a great server against a great baseliner is like a psycho chess. The server knows that he can't drop his serve and go with a high risk for return, whereas a great baseliner must play with a great patience and wait for his chance on second serves. But when a server slips, then it is much more difficult to get a break back than it is vice versa. Tie-breakers are decisive then and it is merciless quite often for both. But the pressure to a server on clay is enormous.
Tbh, Wimby final between Sampras and Ivanisevic did not impress me at all and it is the same if Rao plays with Isner, Karlovic, then I definitely don't watch it. But it is up to everybody's taste.

Noah won v Wilander SVing at the FO in 83. But yes, more of an exception than the rule....Edberg and McEnroe were mighty close too though.

bluenose wrote:I'm beginning to think we're seeing some sort of Balkan ethnic thing here - Milos can do no right.

Not in the least.

Raonic certainly improved on last year's results. (counted up to RG) He had QF or better in all masters with the exception of Madrid where he lost to the the real winner Nishikori in two tight tie-breaks in R16.

For a guy who's game is built around his big serve, he does very well on clay and slow surfaces. He took a set off Nadal in Miami for the first time.  From what I have seen of him, he is quite powerful off the ground from the fh side as well, though not very consistent. So, once his serve is returned to a somewhat neutral position, he is much more likely to lose the point than to win it against top players.

Last year he reached R32 in RG, losing against K. Anderson. I think he can improve on that, but it will depend on a good draw, which seems more likely now because of his improved seeding.

I wish him well, though I also do not enjoy his game very much, not because of his serve, but because of his forced looking movement. But the game needs some young guys to break through more urgently than ever.

@bluenose: Balkan ethnic thing? You think he is disliked because of his ethnicity?