Wimbledon Day 13, Sunday 14th July

by summerblues Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:23 am

Gentlemen's Singles - Final

Djokovic vs Federer

Discuss.

This one deserves its own separate poll.

by summerblues Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:25 am

This is not the Federer vs Bautista Agut final we were all hoping for (at least I was, anyway) but it is the second best we could get.

I am sticking with my pre-tournament prediction and picking Federer.

If he can get himself in good shape (and I think he will) in my books he is at least 50% to win.

by noleisthebest Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:22 am

LAAAAAAA-LA-LA-LA-LAAAAAAAAAAAA

IDEMO NOLE MAJSTOREEEEEEEE ! ! !

OOOOOOH YEAH !

by bogbrush Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:23 am

Much will e made of their previous two Wimbledon meetings in 2014 and 2015 which Djokovic won, but there was a fundamental change made to Feds game during the hiatus of 2016. Just ask Rafa Nadal whether this is the same opponent; a lop-sided h2h us swinging back by 6-1 in Federer’s favour, the one aberration being in a tornado at RG.

Their last meeting was decided on a 3rd & final set tie break, so to all intents & purposes, a draw. Especially as Federer won the only advantage set.

The crowd will be, well, partisan. Just a bit. This allegedly gets under Djokovic’s skin whether he admits it or not.

A lot will come down to whether Federer recovers from being as he put it “exhausted” after Nadal.

It’s fairly obvious; Djokovic will try to make it physical and grind Federer down, RF will try to pressurise Djokovic.

The match is on Federer’s racquet and it’s down to whether can play high pressure tennis and contain the errors. He just might, but the odds are in Djokovic’s favour.

by noleisthebest Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:32 am

bogbrush wrote:Much will e made of their previous two Wimbledon meetings in 2014 and 2015 which Djokovic won, but there was a fundamental change made to Feds game during the hiatus of 2016. Just ask Rafa Nadal whether this is the same opponent; a lip sided h2h us swinging back by 6-1 in Federer’s favour, the one aberration being in a tornado at RG.

Their last meeting was decided on a 3rd & final set tie break, so to all intents & purposes, a draw. Especially as Federer won the only advantage set.

The crowd will be, well, partisan. Just a bit. This allegedly gets under Djokovic’s skin whether he admits it or not.

A lot will come down to whether Federer recovers from being as he put it “exhausted” after Nadal.

It’s fairly obvious; Djokovic will try to make it physical and grind Federer down, RF will try to pressurise Djokovic.

The match is on Federer’s racquet abd it’s down to whether can play high pressure tennis and contain the errors. He just might, but the odds are in Djokovic’s favour.

This is where the rest of your comment loses all cred.

How can a match be on Federer's racquet...when was the last time he beat Nole?
That match that looked close in Paris that even Federer referred to in his presser yesterday (and Federer still lost it) was only because Nole was ill.

As for the partizan crowd...they have long been transmuted into a negative motivation, so working for Nole even if they are trying the opposite.

Nole is going to be returning Fed's serve much better than Nadal, and he is in Fed's head now just like Rafa used to be.

I also predict that Fed's FH is going to crack first. Maybe even fast.

by bogbrush Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:44 am

The match is always on his racquet simply because if he plays to his best, he wins. He shortens points, takes away the roadrunners tactic and wins. Simple. If he doesn’t, he doesn’t.

by Jahu Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:45 am

Nothing to discuss, Fed in 4.

by Jahu Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:48 am

No doubt Centre Court will be transformed into the Temple of Roger again, with the Swiss master’s opponent regarded as little more than light entertainment by a fawning audience. Mostly they just want Djokovic cast in the role of hapless magician’s assistant – a poor sap to be loaded into a cannon and fired into Wimbledon Village.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2019/jul/12/roger-federer-rafael-nadal-wimbledon-semi-final-novak-djokovic

good.

by noleisthebest Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:51 am

bogbrush wrote:The match is always on his racquet simply because if he plays to his best, he wins. He shortens points, takes away the roadrunners tactic and wins. Simple. If he doesn’t, he doesn’t.

How can he play to his best when his best serve comes back to his shoelaces?

Fed's career can be divided into two parts: BN and AN (just in case some have any doubt: before and after Nole Big Grin

)

by legendkillar Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:14 am

The serve is the key. Federer can ill afford serving in the low 100's on the first serve against Djokovic. Federer can only hope for the slow Djokovic who played Hurkacz. RBA was serving in the high 110's off the bat and Djokovic dealt with that serve pretty well.

Good news for Federer is he won't be dealing with a high topspin ball from Djokovic, but Djokovic will play a much fuller length on his groundies than anyone else.

Federer has to start well quickly. Though I doubt he has the energy to sustain that for 3 sets let alone 5.

Djokovic in 4.

by paulcz Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:25 am

Nole is a different league vs Nadal. His mentality is diamond solid, there is practically no weakness in his game. For Fed to win, he needs to serve nearly perfect, try to draw Nole by short slices to the net, mix it up with short and long slices and have luck at the net. I think that serve, slices and net game are the key.
The match is clearly in Nole's hand.

by Tenez Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:40 am

Federer would have beaten Djoko early but not at the end of the tournament. Djoko has been very lucky since Fed aged.

There is always 6 players taking most of the energy of Fed on the way to the final.... In spite of his extra 5 years Fed managed to win or even make it dead close.... Shows how much better he is than Djoko.

Unfortunately... Tennis is not about being better only it is about being better at the end of slams.

by Emancipator Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:45 am

Sadly I expect Screech to win. I think Fed will feel this semi in his legs. 3 hours on a grass court at this age is not gonna be shaken off easily. I cannot see him shortening the points or hitting through the Screech in these slow conditions.

by bogbrush Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:39 am

i guess that given it’s basically skills versus running the conditions are key, and we always knew that taking out both Nadal and Djokovic on this slow court/balls in the space of three days is a huge challenge.

It wouldn’t be the first time that Federer has been done by the challenge of getting back for the 2nd after beating the first.

by summerblues Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:43 am

noleisthebest wrote:he is in Fed's head now just like Rafa used to be.

I see no basis for this. Fed used to lose to Rafa even when his level of tennis (vs other opponents) was higher than Rafa's. Even then, I think it was more about match-up than Rafa being in his head. But, more importantly, that has generally not been the case vs Nole. Nole's wins vs Fed have usually come when Nole was playing objectively better tennis (e.g. 2018 Nole played far better than 2018 Fed). In fact, Nole has even struggled to make results reflect their relative form. E.g. in 2011 Nole was far superior to Fed overall, yet lost at RG and barely scraped through at USO.

And 2019 Nole has been, if anything, inferior to Fed. Fed is playing far better than in 2018, and Nole nowhere near as well.

by summerblues Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:51 am

paulcz wrote:there is practically no weakness in his game.

Have you seen his slice? His volleys? His overhead?

The guy is a machine from the baseline but there are glaring weaknesses aplenty in his game.

by Daniel2 Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:53 am

nitb doesn't seem to realize how old fed is or why that matters. you're wasting your time. fed has a decent chance of winning but he has to serve well. i wish fed got these easy draws. can't remember last time he got a draw like djoks or us open nadal.

by summerblues Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:05 am

Some points in Fed's favor:

1. He looks in good form
2. Nole has not really looked great since the AO
3. Even Fed with shaky ground game was competitive vs Nole in 2014-15, and his ground game is much better now. That will take pressure off the rest of his game and allow him to attack on his own terms.
4. Match vs Rafa was not a cakewalk but it was not a 5 he slugfest either.
5. I believe the ball bounces quite low this year

by paulcz Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:15 am

summerblues wrote:
paulcz wrote:there is practically no weakness in his game.
Have you seen his slice? His volleys? His overhead?

The guy is a machine from the baseline but there are glaring weaknesses aplenty in his game.

All these game aspects have been improved a lot recently. You need to watch on them more closely and not only for some pieces of matches and not compare it only to Fed. You need also to consider what opponent he is playing and which round, how he deals with his opponent a his game strategy. Have a look on his stats and compare quantity of his net approaches and net points winning ratio to how he played more than 3 years ago.

by summerblues Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:22 am

I agree his slice is not as horrible as it used to be, and likewise his volleys, but they are both still well below par for a top player.

His overhead is as useless as ever.

by bogbrush Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:26 am

Come on, the guy us barely ordinary beyond the service line.

by legendkillar Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:02 pm

summerblues wrote:
paulcz wrote:there is practically no weakness in his game.
Have you seen his slice? His volleys? His overhead?

The guy is a machine from the baseline but there are glaring weaknesses aplenty in his game.

I have to say Djokovic is much more apt at the net than previous years. Against RBA he came to net more frequently than against previous opponents in this tournament.

I know we are used to Djokovic winning wars of attrition and the famed 45 shot rally, but RBA played his part in that and if you take the second set whereby Djokovic played much tighter to the baseline, RBA hit through him and won that set. Djokovic had to play a more all court game against RBA. If RBA just had the depth of shot on his groundies, I think Djokovic would've been in trouble.

Against Federer yes I think the baseline game is a no brainer, however I don't think Djokovic will be scared taking Federer on at the net.

It does pain this forum to give Djokovic any form of credit, but his match with RBA yesterday was a decent affair. More so as Djokovic had to play more expansively to get the job done rather than bludgeon him from the baseline.

The weakness I see is similar to Nadal in whereby I think if Federer shortens the court, he could force Djokovic to be more aggressive and bring into play UE's. Plus if Djokovic drops his level of consistency on serve.

by paulcz Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:16 pm

legendkillar wrote:
summerblues wrote:
paulcz wrote:there is practically no weakness in his game.
Have you seen his slice? His volleys? His overhead?

The guy is a machine from the baseline but there are glaring weaknesses aplenty in his game.

I have to say Djokovic is much more apt at the net than previous years. Against RBA he came to net more frequently than against previous opponents in this tournament.

I know we are used to Djokovic winning wars of attrition and the famed 45 shot rally, but RBA played his part in that and if you take the second set whereby Djokovic played much tighter to the baseline, RBA hit through him and won that set. Djokovic had to play a more all court game against RBA. If RBA just had the depth of shot on his groundies, I think Djokovic would've been in trouble.

Against Federer yes I think the baseline game is a no brainer, however I don't think Djokovic will be scared taking Federer on at the net.

It does pain this forum to give Djokovic any form of credit, but his match with RBA yesterday was a decent affair. More so as Djokovic had to play more expansively to get the job done rather than bludgeon him from the baseline.

The weakness I see is similar to Nadal in whereby I think if Federer shortens the court, he could force Djokovic to be more aggressive and bring into play UE's. Plus if Djokovic drops his level of consistency on serve.

But there is a striking difference where Nole and Nadal stands and not only on return. Nole stands good two meters more in the court. In addition Nole hits much more flatter and on top of that he is mentally tough as diamond. Fed needs to play nearly perfect, to get it in breakers, then he has a good chance.

by Daniel2 Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:14 pm

bogbrush wrote:Come on, the guy us barely ordinary beyond the service line.

That's all Djok has... a baseline game. The problem is the surfaces now all allow for it to be ultra successful. Even so, this isn't the same Djok that beat Fed last time - nor is it the same Fed.

Fed doesn't have to play perfect. Djok isn't unbeatable or anywhere near it.

by legendkillar Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:38 pm

paulcz wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
summerblues wrote:
paulcz wrote:there is practically no weakness in his game.
Have you seen his slice? His volleys? His overhead?

The guy is a machine from the baseline but there are glaring weaknesses aplenty in his game.

I have to say Djokovic is much more apt at the net than previous years. Against RBA he came to net more frequently than against previous opponents in this tournament.

I know we are used to Djokovic winning wars of attrition and the famed 45 shot rally, but RBA played his part in that and if you take the second set whereby Djokovic played much tighter to the baseline, RBA hit through him and won that set. Djokovic had to play a more all court game against RBA. If RBA just had the depth of shot on his groundies, I think Djokovic would've been in trouble.

Against Federer yes I think the baseline game is a no brainer, however I don't think Djokovic will be scared taking Federer on at the net.

It does pain this forum to give Djokovic any form of credit, but his match with RBA yesterday was a decent affair. More so as Djokovic had to play more expansively to get the job done rather than bludgeon him from the baseline.

The weakness I see is similar to Nadal in whereby I think if Federer shortens the court, he could force Djokovic to be more aggressive and bring into play UE's. Plus if Djokovic drops his level of consistency on serve.
But there is a striking difference where Nole and Nadal stands and not only on return. Nole stands good two meters more in the court. In addition Nole hits much more flatter and on top of that he is mentally tough as diamond. Fed needs to play nearly perfect, to get it in breakers, then he has a good chance.

Nadal may stand way back on serve, but in recent history he plays much more closer to the baseline. In the 2nd his return point was a metre further in. I think Fed would get more joy on the FH side of Djokovic rather than the BH side.

I agree mentally Djokovic solid as a rock. He does have it in him to lose rhythm and allow UE's to creep in, but it's rare it's for a prolonged period. You might get the odd set, but not an entire match.

For me it's the serve. Federer has to serve in 120's and serve a clinic.

Many are expecting Djokovic to drag this out into a slugfest on the baseline. I think Djokovic might surprise a few playing similarly as he did against RBA.

If there is a weakness in the Djokovic game (it's one which really doesn't impact as much) is the chip charge. Not his strongest play. I agree however that other than that, hard to see weaknesses in the Djokovic game.

by Daniel2 Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:47 pm

How do we know how Djok's been playing this tournament? He's played no-one of any standing,. Even Agut has beaten him before and took a set this tournament. You're all hyping Djok like he's a god. Haha - he's not.

by Jahu Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:57 pm

Federer just surpassed Ivanisevic for most aces at Wimbldon.

by naxroy Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:39 pm

I think I prefer Federer to win

by break_in_the_fifth Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:03 pm

Odds are going to be even more against Federer than they were yesterday. I agree about the return, Djokovic has a proper return unlike Nadal and probably the GOAT in that department. Not sure how Federer wins without being at least as good as he was against Nadal but playing differently. Maybe serve volley and more slices as I don't think Djokovic's passing shots are as good as Nadal's. SV might be hard though with Djokovic's return coming back at his feet.

by paulcz Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:18 pm

legendkillar wrote:
paulcz wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
summerblues wrote:
paulcz wrote:there is practically no weakness in his game.
Have you seen his slice? His volleys? His overhead?

The guy is a machine from the baseline but there are glaring weaknesses aplenty in his game.

I have to say Djokovic is much more apt at the net than previous years. Against RBA he came to net more frequently than against previous opponents in this tournament.

I know we are used to Djokovic winning wars of attrition and the famed 45 shot rally, but RBA played his part in that and if you take the second set whereby Djokovic played much tighter to the baseline, RBA hit through him and won that set. Djokovic had to play a more all court game against RBA. If RBA just had the depth of shot on his groundies, I think Djokovic would've been in trouble.

Against Federer yes I think the baseline game is a no brainer, however I don't think Djokovic will be scared taking Federer on at the net.

It does pain this forum to give Djokovic any form of credit, but his match with RBA yesterday was a decent affair. More so as Djokovic had to play more expansively to get the job done rather than bludgeon him from the baseline.

The weakness I see is similar to Nadal in whereby I think if Federer shortens the court, he could force Djokovic to be more aggressive and bring into play UE's. Plus if Djokovic drops his level of consistency on serve.
But there is a striking difference where Nole and Nadal stands and not only on return. Nole stands good two meters more in the court. In addition Nole hits much more flatter and on top of that he is mentally tough as diamond. Fed needs to play nearly perfect, to get it in breakers, then he has a good chance.

Nadal may stand way back on serve, but in recent history he plays much more closer to the baseline. In the 2nd his return point was a metre further in. I think Fed would get more joy on the FH side of Djokovic rather than the BH side.

I agree mentally Djokovic solid as a rock. He does have it in him to lose rhythm and allow UE's to creep in, but it's rare it's for a prolonged period. You might get the odd set, but not an entire match.

For me it's the serve. Federer has to serve in 120's and serve a clinic.

Many are expecting Djokovic to drag this out into a slugfest on the baseline. I think Djokovic might surprise a few playing similarly as he did against RBA.

If there is a weakness in the Djokovic game (it's one which really doesn't impact as much) is the chip charge. Not his strongest play. I agree however that other than that, hard to see weaknesses in the Djokovic game.

Well said LK. The serve a strong mentallity are the essential set in tennis since its beginning. So any lapses here are game devastating. Both players are exceptional in this area although they are quite different players.

Federer's disposition is a real attacker while Djokovic's game is based on rock solid baseline game. Novak has been learning and implementing his net game gradually and currently he is using it more often and successful than ever. It enables him to change game rhythm and disrupt opponents to a large extent. Novak has built up his overal all court game and although he does not possesses exceptional Federer's attacking skillset including chip and charge, his strong mentallity supported by a superb movement gives him more game options than anybody. Of course a big part goes behind DHB, which is more effective way for returning and baseline game than SHB. We need to consider also slow conditions, beaten court, age and 4 hours advantage for rest. Novak is a clear favourite for sure.

When Felix AA improves his serve, which is ruined by his bad ball toss, he is a real deal. Then just to strengthen mentallity and that's it. He is a complete package of a new tennis great player. So there is not much time for BIG3 to resist new coming youngsters.

by garthmarenghi Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:25 pm

Federer wins tomorrow! There is no other way.

by legendkillar Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:31 pm

paulcz wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
paulcz wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
summerblues wrote:
paulcz wrote:there is practically no weakness in his game.
Have you seen his slice? His volleys? His overhead?

The guy is a machine from the baseline but there are glaring weaknesses aplenty in his game.

I have to say Djokovic is much more apt at the net than previous years. Against RBA he came to net more frequently than against previous opponents in this tournament.

I know we are used to Djokovic winning wars of attrition and the famed 45 shot rally, but RBA played his part in that and if you take the second set whereby Djokovic played much tighter to the baseline, RBA hit through him and won that set. Djokovic had to play a more all court game against RBA. If RBA just had the depth of shot on his groundies, I think Djokovic would've been in trouble.

Against Federer yes I think the baseline game is a no brainer, however I don't think Djokovic will be scared taking Federer on at the net.

It does pain this forum to give Djokovic any form of credit, but his match with RBA yesterday was a decent affair. More so as Djokovic had to play more expansively to get the job done rather than bludgeon him from the baseline.

The weakness I see is similar to Nadal in whereby I think if Federer shortens the court, he could force Djokovic to be more aggressive and bring into play UE's. Plus if Djokovic drops his level of consistency on serve.
But there is a striking difference where Nole and Nadal stands and not only on return. Nole stands good two meters more in the court. In addition Nole hits much more flatter and on top of that he is mentally tough as diamond. Fed needs to play nearly perfect, to get it in breakers, then he has a good chance.

Nadal may stand way back on serve, but in recent history he plays much more closer to the baseline. In the 2nd his return point was a metre further in. I think Fed would get more joy on the FH side of Djokovic rather than the BH side.

I agree mentally Djokovic solid as a rock. He does have it in him to lose rhythm and allow UE's to creep in, but it's rare it's for a prolonged period. You might get the odd set, but not an entire match.

For me it's the serve. Federer has to serve in 120's and serve a clinic.

Many are expecting Djokovic to drag this out into a slugfest on the baseline. I think Djokovic might surprise a few playing similarly as he did against RBA.

If there is a weakness in the Djokovic game (it's one which really doesn't impact as much) is the chip charge. Not his strongest play. I agree however that other than that, hard to see weaknesses in the Djokovic game.
Well said LK. The serve a strong mentallity are the essential set in tennis since its beginning. So any lapses here are game devastating. Both players are exceptional in this area although they are quite different players.

Federer's disposition is a real attacker while Djokovic's game is based on rock solid baseline game. Novak has been learning and implementing his net game gradually and currently he is using it more often and successful than ever. It enables him to change game rhythm and disrupt opponents to a large extent. Novak has built up his overal all court game and although he does not possesses exceptional Federer's attacking skillset including chip and charge, his strong mentallity supported by a superb movement gives him more game options than anybody. Of course a big part goes behind DHB, which is more effective way for returning and baseline game than SHB. We need to consider also slow conditions, beaten court, age and 4 hours advantage for rest. Novak is a clear favourite for sure.

When Felix AA improves his serve, which is ruined by his bad ball toss, he is a real deal. Then just to strengthen mentallity and that's it. He is a complete package of a new tennis great player. So there is not much time for BIG3 to resist new coming youngsters.

When you look at Djokovic's 1st serves in stats this tournament. Hovering around the mid 60's. The thing is he could easily get into the 70's. Yet despite that, the gulf between him and the rest of the field is huge. Granted the early round opponents not much to sing about, even when Djokovic has a lull, their lulls are much much worse and it in turn makes Djokovic look a million bucks.

Indeed Federer is a pure attacker, Djokovic is a true counterpuncher and probably the best there's ever been. I do like how Djokovic has developed his net game and that was what was impressive about his display against RBA. I am amazed many didn't see how RBA actually was stronger from the baseline than Djokovic. Had the legs and the movement and was moving Djokovic around and forcing him into errors. The thing about this Djokovic, the power in the BH isn't what it used to be. Which is why even though he is trying to shorten rallies, he isn't taking the BH earlier and so more and more he is going to net now. Whilst his game is seemingly ugly (from aesthetic perspective) he has had to develop. His net game has been the next step of his evolution.

Federer will have to return much better tomorrow. This match is going to be nothing like the 14/15 final. It will be a much different match.

I won't lie. I find the Djokovic game bland. Mainly because a lot of the explosiveness has gone from his BH, but I admire how despite areas weakening, he has strengthened others which has kept him a step ahead.

by noleisthebest Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:42 pm

LAAAAAAAA LA LA LA LA LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

by noleisthebest Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:43 pm

Guys, I've stepped into the realm of unspeakable

WACH OUT

OOOOH YEEEEAH!!!!!

by Tenez Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:36 pm

garthmarenghi wrote:Federer wins tomorrow! There is no other way.

Last time you said that was AO17.... If I remember correctly. May the stars align... Once more.

by Daniel2 Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:45 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Guys, I've stepped into the realm of unspeakable

WACH OUT

OOOOH YEEEEAH!!!!!

You've stepped into the realm of fanboyism and it won't end well for you when Djok ends his career behind Fed.

by noleisthebest Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:55 pm

Tenez wrote:
garthmarenghi wrote:Federer wins tomorrow! There is no other way.
Last time you said that was AO17.... If I remember correctly. May the stars align... Once more.

LAAAAAA LA LA LA LA LAAAAAAAAAAA

by noleisthebest Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:56 pm

Daniel2 wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Guys, I've stepped into the realm of unspeakable

WACH OUT

OOOOH YEEEEAH!!!!!

You've stepped into the realm of fanboyism and it won't end well for you when Djok ends his career behind Fed.

It's called madness my friend, beautiful, poetic bliss! Viva Nole & noleisthebest Bubbly

by paulcz Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:16 pm

legendkillar wrote:
paulcz wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
paulcz wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
summerblues wrote:
paulcz wrote:there is practically no weakness in his game.
Have you seen his slice? His volleys? His overhead?

The guy is a machine from the baseline but there are glaring weaknesses aplenty in his game.

I have to say Djokovic is much more apt at the net than previous years. Against RBA he came to net more frequently than against previous opponents in this tournament.

I know we are used to Djokovic winning wars of attrition and the famed 45 shot rally, but RBA played his part in that and if you take the second set whereby Djokovic played much tighter to the baseline, RBA hit through him and won that set. Djokovic had to play a more all court game against RBA. If RBA just had the depth of shot on his groundies, I think Djokovic would've been in trouble.

Against Federer yes I think the baseline game is a no brainer, however I don't think Djokovic will be scared taking Federer on at the net.

It does pain this forum to give Djokovic any form of credit, but his match with RBA yesterday was a decent affair. More so as Djokovic had to play more expansively to get the job done rather than bludgeon him from the baseline.

The weakness I see is similar to Nadal in whereby I think if Federer shortens the court, he could force Djokovic to be more aggressive and bring into play UE's. Plus if Djokovic drops his level of consistency on serve.
But there is a striking difference where Nole and Nadal stands and not only on return. Nole stands good two meters more in the court. In addition Nole hits much more flatter and on top of that he is mentally tough as diamond. Fed needs to play nearly perfect, to get it in breakers, then he has a good chance.

Nadal may stand way back on serve, but in recent history he plays much more closer to the baseline. In the 2nd his return point was a metre further in. I think Fed would get more joy on the FH side of Djokovic rather than the BH side.

I agree mentally Djokovic solid as a rock. He does have it in him to lose rhythm and allow UE's to creep in, but it's rare it's for a prolonged period. You might get the odd set, but not an entire match.

For me it's the serve. Federer has to serve in 120's and serve a clinic.

Many are expecting Djokovic to drag this out into a slugfest on the baseline. I think Djokovic might surprise a few playing similarly as he did against RBA.

If there is a weakness in the Djokovic game (it's one which really doesn't impact as much) is the chip charge. Not his strongest play. I agree however that other than that, hard to see weaknesses in the Djokovic game.
Well said LK. The serve a strong mentallity are the essential set in tennis since its beginning. So any lapses here are game devastating. Both players are exceptional in this area although they are quite different players.

Federer's disposition is a real attacker while Djokovic's game is based on rock solid baseline game. Novak has been learning and implementing his net game gradually and currently he is using it more often and successful than ever. It enables him to change game rhythm and disrupt opponents to a large extent. Novak has built up his overal all court game and although he does not possesses exceptional Federer's attacking skillset including chip and charge, his strong mentallity supported by a superb movement gives him more game options than anybody. Of course a big part goes behind DHB, which is more effective way for returning and baseline game than SHB. We need to consider also slow conditions, beaten court, age and 4 hours advantage for rest. Novak is a clear favourite for sure.

When Felix AA improves his serve, which is ruined by his bad ball toss, he is a real deal. Then just to strengthen mentallity and that's it. He is a complete package of a new tennis great player. So there is not much time for BIG3 to resist new coming youngsters.

When you look at Djokovic's 1st serves in stats this tournament. Hovering around the mid 60's. The thing is he could easily get into the 70's. Yet despite that, the gulf between him and the rest of the field is huge. Granted the early round opponents not much to sing about, even when Djokovic has a lull, their lulls are much much worse and it in turn makes Djokovic look a million bucks.

Indeed Federer is a pure attacker, Djokovic is a true counterpuncher and probably the best there's ever been. I do like how Djokovic has developed his net game and that was what was impressive about his display against RBA. I am amazed many didn't see how RBA actually was stronger from the baseline than Djokovic. Had the legs and the movement and was moving Djokovic around and forcing him into errors. The thing about this Djokovic, the power in the BH isn't what it used to be. Which is why even though he is trying to shorten rallies, he isn't taking the BH earlier and so more and more he is going to net now. Whilst his game is seemingly ugly (from aesthetic perspective) he has had to develop. His net game has been the next step of his evolution.

Federer will have to return much better tomorrow. This match is going to be nothing like the 14/15 final. It will be a much different match.

I won't lie. I find the Djokovic game bland. Mainly because a lot of the explosiveness has gone from his BH, but I admire how despite areas weakening, he has strengthened others which has kept him a step ahead.

I agree that Federer's game is the most attractive of all the players I've ever seen to play. But despite that I'm a fan of Novak Djokovic. I like him as a human, I admire his athletic ability, his game development, his strong mentality, his ability to concentrate on the game, his thinking on the court, his ability to adapt to any player, surface and nearly to all conditions. Considering the country and conditions where he grew up, what all he went through, it is amazing what all he has achieved.
His game is a reflection of all I wrote above. He plays just what he needs and believes that brings success. When he plays against weaker players, his game is not that powerful and he is too playful on the court. He is a player who grows with a challenge and his limits are unbelievebly high.

by noleisthebest Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:19 pm

paulcz wrote:...on the game, his thinking on the court, his ability to adapt to any player, surface and nearly to all conditions. Considering the country and conditions where he grew up, what all he went through, it is amazing what all he has achieved.
His game is a reflection of all I wrote above. He plays just what he needs and believes that brings success. When he plays against weaker players, his game is not that powerful and he is too playful on the court. He is a player who grows with a challenge and his limits are unbelievebly high.

Hey brother Paul!!!

LAAAAA LA LA LA LA LAAAAAAAAAAA

Not many people get Nole, and that's a good sign!
Count yourself blessed. Big Grin

by noleisthebest Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:22 pm

This time tomorrow, we/you'll all be hoppin'&boppin' to the sound of crocodile rock!

LAAAAAA LA LA LA LA LAAAAAAAAAAAA

Stuff me, life is SO beautiful! love

by noleisthebest Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:27 pm

Maaaaan, Wimbledon's good!

This is our tennis Christmas, guys...one more sleeep!!! cracker

by noleisthebest Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:29 pm

I nearly forgot!!!

LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA LA LA LA LA LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

by noleisthebest Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:39 pm

I am having an absolutely wonderful Wimbledon Eve!

Where is everybody?

My feet just can't keep still Somersault

LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

by paulcz Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:42 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
paulcz wrote:...on the game, his thinking on the court, his ability to adapt to any player, surface and nearly to all conditions. Considering the country and conditions where he grew up, what all he went through, it is amazing what all he has achieved.
His game is a reflection of all I wrote above. He plays just what he needs and believes that brings success. When he plays against weaker players, his game is not that powerful and he is too playful on the court. He is a player who grows with a challenge and his limits are unbelievebly high.

Hey brother Paul!!!

LAAAAA LA LA LA LA LAAAAAAAAAAA

Not many people get Nole, and that's a good sign!
Count yourself blessed.

Hey my sister, NITB!!!

Be ready for today's ride and good night!!! Big Grin

by noleisthebest Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:44 pm

paulcz wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
paulcz wrote:...on the game, his thinking on the court, his ability to adapt to any player, surface and nearly to all conditions. Considering the country and conditions where he grew up, what all he went through, it is amazing what all he has achieved.
His game is a reflection of all I wrote above. He plays just what he needs and believes that brings success. When he plays against weaker players, his game is not that powerful and he is too playful on the court. He is a player who grows with a challenge and his limits are unbelievebly high.

Hey brother Paul!!!

LAAAAA LA LA LA LA LAAAAAAAAAAA

Not many people get Nole, and that's a good sign!
Count yourself blessed.
Hey my sister, NITB!!!

Be ready for tomorrow and good night!!!

I dunno how and why but tomorrow is going to be a fantastic day, trust me!

LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

by summerblues Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:14 am

The more I have been thinking about the final the more I fancy Federer's chances.

But now I came home and read all pessimistic assessments here and I am feeling less sure. Maybe I am just seeing it through rose-tinted glasses?

So, it is time to tone down expectations and prepare for the worst:

Going into the QF/SF, I thought the worst possible outcome was Rafa winning the title but the most likely outcome was Nole vs Rafa final with Nole winning the title. The worst outcome has been prevented (Fed did the hard work himself) and even if Nole wins tomorrow it will be no worse than what I had been expecting all along. So maybe I should just get mentally ready for that, and if Fed somehow wins, take it as a bonus.

But I cannot. I really think Fed will take it and I will be quite disappointed if he does not.

Fed in three, or at most 4 sets.

Good luck Roger!

by summerblues Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:42 am

Just checked Nole vs RBA highlights. I was not really able to get sense how dangerous Nole may be from what I have seen. He did not play that great but I could not tell whether it was relatively poor form or whether he just did not need to try harder.

But I was reminded that Nole possesses the ugliest BH slice in the world.

by bogbrush Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:24 am

Yeah, sb, it’s difficult to see for me though how Federer can play so low errors to make the attacking needed work. Who knows? We know that Djokovic will try his utmost to take everything long and make that semi final come back fast to Federer’s legs.

I do know that nitb needs to get off the lines of coke or whatever it is that’s causing these stupid posts. Seriously girl, it’s stupid.

by Tenez Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:49 am

I just wish Nadal and Djoko had killed each others for 5 sets in the semi before meeting Federer.

Winning or losing slams requires a bit of luck.... And I have not seen much in Federer's career.

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