Baby WTF - Next-Gen ATP Finals 2017

The “sexist” scandal mentioned on the other thread reminded me this week is not empty, and that se have Next Gen finals...call it Baby WTF!

A. Zverev has withdrawn, obviously wants to get ready for the real WTF


Andrey Rublev
Karen Khachanov
Denis Shapovalov
Borna Coric
Jared Donaldson
Hyeon Chung
Daniil Medvedev
**Italian wildcard**








I can’t believe Coric is still here...

And some interesting new rules:

What are the new rules at the ATP Next Gen finals?

The following innovative rules will be introduced in Milan:

Shorter Format

First to Four games sets (Tie-beak at 3-3), Best-of-five sets, with no ad scoring.

Shorter Warm-Up

Matches will begin precisely five minutes from the second player walk-on, leading to a reduction in down time before the beginning of matches.

Shot Clock

A shot clock will be used in between points to ensure strict regulation of the 25-second rule.

No-Let Rule

The No-Let rule will apply to serves, bringing in an additional element of unpredictability at the start of points.

Medical Time-Outs

A limit of one medical time out per player per match.

Player Coaching

Players and coaches will be able to communicate at certain points in the match (to be determined), providing additional content and entertainment value for broadcast. Coaches will not be allowed on-court.

Electronic line calling

The tournament will feature electronic line calling on all lines during the inaugural event.

The chair umpire will be the only match official on court, and instead of a lines person calling and signaling that the ball is in or out, an automated voice will call balls “out”. For serves, the same voice will shout “fault”.

I welcome the shot clock and electronic line call...though you can’t beat the human eye.

Both are corruptible, though...

shit clock   that's about right actually.

I like the fact Coric is there. As he can't make it at the top level.

C'mon Shap!

legendkillar wrote:shit clock   that's about right actually.

I like the fact Coric is there. As he can't make it at the top level.

C'mon Shap!

corrected...

yes it's funny Coric is stuck...same to happen with Zverev.

Match of the day:

Shapovalov-Chung at 14.30.

I am surprised Tiafoe, 19 is not at this tournament.
He’d’ve raisd the quality significantly, rather than Italian WC.

Good tennis between Shapo and Chung.

Weird there is no let call, so a player has to deal with all kinds of serve.

No need for shot clock, but good to have it.

Also super weird to see coaches and players communicating with a speaker/headphones and even visuals!

Wow, men’s on court coaching is soooo much more interesting than women’s, where coaches are scared to stalk to them, it’s more like a don’t cry  psychotherapy session.

I can’t believe the difference!

Both Shapo and Chung  play nice clean tennis with flair...breath of fresh air...no bashing and percentage!

Match of the day:

Rublev-Chung


I expect a comfortable win for Ching, he playd a great match against a very good Shapovalov yesterday.

I’ll have to add, the key to his win was advice his coach gave him - to go down the line on Shapo’s FH...that totally unravelled and rattled Shapo who lost despite winning the first set.

Also, Shalo was unlucky several times with net calls.

The two should meet in the final (if the format is the same as WTF)

Match of the Day:

Shapovalov - Rublev

I have only looked at my matches of the day during this tournament and enjoyed them all as it was all about tennis, not fitness.

Chung-Shapo was the best one, hope they meet in the final.

Chung-Rubi was a demolition and confirmation that Rubi is nothing but a basher, at least gutsy and great shots, though.

noleisthebest wrote:
Chung-Rubi was a demolition and confirmation that Rubi is nothing but a basher, at least gutsy and great shots, though.

Yes that's the feeling I had too. One needs to control power, it's key, otherwise you fail at every tension moments. I think Rublev tries hard but it is difficult. I still think he will be a very dangerous player when his confidence will be grow. I missed Davydenko to some extend. He was a very crafty player, shame he did not have a big serve cause he is the only one who coudl have stopped Federer outside clay when Federer was surfing his wave versus players of his generation.

Funny you mention Davydenko...

I was reading (another!) interview with P. Popovic (Krajinovic's ex Karkovic's coach) today and he says that Krajinovic is very much like Davydenko, fast and with clean shots...

He also added that his biggest job was to move Krajinovic back on the baseline where he belongs, and where he used to be as a top 5 junior but later moved back behind as he was losing confidence due to many injuries.

And of course, his clean shots had little power 2 m behind the baseline, esp with his lean frame.
He even compared his build to Federer's...the light version.


So, I look forward to seeing more of Krajinovic in 2018, esp if he can produce fast baseline tennis like Davy.

He is 25 now and hopefully will keep injury free.

Wow Rubi beat Shapo!

I did not expect that...though I noticed Shapo is able to lose focus easily.

I expected it. The age difference is quite important.

The scores of 4:2, 3:4 etc are enough to turn me off.

For those of you who have watched: how is the shot clock working out?  Are they applying it seriously?

I only watched “nice”players - Shapovalov, Ching and Rublev...they did not need the shot clock as they don’t play physical tennis and serve fast...Shapo, for example took about 15 seconds max.

Today it’s the SFs and Rubi is playing Coric...now that’s where the clock may get useful.

Apart from the best of 4 games in a set turn off, the worst novelty was no let call...plain stupid.


I am a bit disappointed Shapo didn’t reach semis, but only today realised he, Chung and Rubi were all in the same group.

Ching and Shapo played the best tennis by far...didn’t see Rubi-Shapo yesterday I assume it was close.

summerblues wrote:The scores of 4:2, 3:4 etc are enough to turn me off.

For those of you who have watched: how is the shot clock working out?  Are they applying it seriously?

I agree. I hope they will never bend to that in the main tour.

I knew Rub would beat Coric.....not the first time, is it?

I am so glad he did!!!
I feared Coric would drain him with his percentage tennis.

So Rubi in the final, probably vs Chung again!

Chung destroyed him in their RR match.

We created 2 threads about youngsters....And here they are in the final!...well almost.

We missed the main one though: Zverev....but let's see how he evolves.

Yes, not bad!

Our head club coach coached a top GB  junior (he is now studying at a college in the US,  and I even played vs him in doubles a set just to get the idea of how fast these pro balls actually feel in real life!: )...anyway, this junior is the same age as Rubi and Chung and he played them all in Orange ball, lost to Rubi in a TB...
The coach said he thought Chung was “solid” then...and that he didn’t think Rubi was that good...so look where Chung and Rubi are now...interesting, isn’t it.

So many Brit talents choose the safe route...college etc...

Medvedev is ok, but a bit 1d...basher plus all the neighing...does he really need to make that sound!!!?

Medved has potential, nice soft hands and a forward mind...but he needs loooot of work.

Chung is the daddy here in Milan.

Hey, anyone watching?

What do you make of this coach player conversations?

I like it but it doesn’t have place in tennis - it’s main beauty is one on one...it’s a men’s game, with these coaches it’s the boys’.

Set three finally competitive, good tennis! easy, flat power from Medved, but Chung goes down the line on both wings at will, that is his main weapon...and so good in defence, he plays similsr to Nole in fact, very difficult to put a ball past.

noleisthebest wrote:Medved has potential, nice soft hands and a forward mind...but he needs loooot of work.

Chung is the daddy here in Milan.

Hey, anyone watching?

What do you make of this coach player conversations?

I like it but it doesn’t have place in tennis - it’s main beauty is one on one...it’s a men’s game, with these coaches it’s the boys’.

Yes I am watching. Chung very solid indeed. Amazing mouvement. Good hands and ground shots.

I woudl like to see him v Zverev.

Wow, what a rally of 28 first class groundstrokes, neither player giving up the baseline.

But the camera doesn’t show the shot clock after that point!!!

noleisthebest wrote:Set three finally competitive, good tennis! easy, flat power from Medved, but Chung goes down the line on both wings at will, that is his main weapon...and so good in defence, he plays similsr to Nole in fact, very difficult to put a ball past.

More style from Chung...also more aggressive. ....but as swift yet.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:Set three finally competitive, good tennis! easy, flat power from Medved, but Chung goes down the line on both wings at will, that is his main weapon...and so good in defence, he plays similsr to Nole in fact, very difficult to put a ball past.

More style from Chung...also more aggressive. ....but as swift yet.

Yes, I only saw him made one wrong shot selection, that soft volley right to Medved’s racquet, cost him the set.

This is the best I’ve seen Chung play...how does he compare now to when you saw him in Wimby?

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:Set three finally competitive, good tennis! easy, flat power from Medved, but Chung goes down the line on both wings at will, that is his main weapon...and so good in defence, he plays similsr to Nole in fact, very difficult to put a ball past.

More style from Chung...also more aggressive. ....but as swift yet.

Yes, I only saw him made one wrong shot selection, that soft volley right to Medved’s racquet, cost him the set.

This is the best I’ve seen Chung play...how does he compare now to when you saw him in Wimby?

I never saw him at Wimby....not that I remember. I saw a youtube clip of him beating Coric at Wimby when they were juniors.

I am not as impressed by his Fh as I was back then....depressingly solid though.

Is Chung running out of steam?

He used a lot of energy at the end of last set.

Surprised no chat from his coach.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:Set three finally competitive, good tennis! easy, flat power from Medved, but Chung goes down the line on both wings at will, that is his main weapon...and so good in defence, he plays similsr to Nole in fact, very difficult to put a ball past.

More style from Chung...also more aggressive. ....but as swift yet.

Yes, I only saw him made one wrong shot selection, that soft volley right to Medved’s racquet, cost him the set.

This is the best I’ve seen Chung play...how does he compare now to when you saw him in Wimby?

I never saw him at Wimby....not that I remember. I saw a youtube clip of him beating Coric at Wimby when they were juniors.

I am not as impressed by his Fh as I was back then....depressingly solid though.

I don’t know why I thought you saw him live...but remember the post, you didn’t enoy Coric’s antics..so glad he lost today.

What does it mean:
“Deuce, server’s choice” ?

Sudden death?

REally enjoying this match...the young energy and tennis, is ‘t it different from the businesslike ATP grind

noleisthebest wrote:What does it mean:
“Deuce, server’s choice” ?

Sudden death?

yes....as if sets to 4 were not short enough.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:What does it mean:
“Deuce, server’s choice” ?

Sudden death?

yes....as if sets to 4 were not short enough.

Though, they did manage to make a decemt two hour match out of it.
They should’ve left best of three sets same as standard WTF.

So we have. Chung - Rubi final!!!

nice to see rublev doing well

26 games......that's like 63 36 62....so yes it would take 2 hours.

Chung seems injured. Does not quite move the same.

Tenez wrote:Chung seems injured. Does not quite move the same.

I started watching when Rubi was a set and a break up and dropped off withing two games...then woke up in the 4th when he was 1:3 down...

So all I saw was his relatively poor play and a conffirmation of his 1d-edness.

I actually wanted Chung to win, even before the match, he was the most complete and consistent player.

He and Shapovalov played the best tennis of the tournament in their RR match, though there were some excellent rallies in Chung-Medvedev match yesterday.

I realised Medvedev has a better game than Rublev as he doesn’t mind coming in and volleying. He reminded me of young Cilic except that Medved is more talented (he needs to improve 2nd serve asap, though).

All in all, an enjoyable tournament...I saw a lot of skill...shame Tiafoe wasn’t part of it.

The tour certainly has lot of young talent, we just need to give them time and space to shine in big tournaments which they will in a few years.

The thing to be forgotten are the “innovations”:

Best of 4 in sets,
Electric line calls (no line judges...not sure why I didn’t like it...it cut out errors, but also somehow made the game sterile)
Coaching of players
And no let calls...that was terrible.


Obviously all the changes come from TV companies...who-are again trying to ruin and dracula engineer everything they touch.

And from that point of view, long live Wimbledon conservative dinosaurs!