Are Serena and Djokovic too fit?

After impartial OTF doping experts confirmed earlier this month that Murray and Nadal are both on steroids, I ask the same question about the world number ones in the ATP and WTA.

I believe neither of them are on steroids, but I was looking forward to hearing your verdict on these players.

Just watched Serena playing Maria today- and she played poorly in the first set and a bit. When she turned it on, Sharapova looked lost. Did anyone see the Olympics- where she only lost 7 games in the last 3 matches. Sharapova is a big hitter in the WTA, but Serena hits the ball so much harder and with so much more strength that Maria's shots just look weak and frail.

And what about Djokovic?
Well, I actually believe his story- the reason for his transformation from a player who used to regularly retire when it was getting too hot, to a player who played and won 11 hours in the space of 3 days (AO 2012)- is in my eyes due to the fact his doctors realised about his gluten allergy. I also think he may have done some training to gain some muscle (have you seen his six pack?)- but I don't think he is on any illegal substances. Anyway he has actively come out and said we need more testing.

Larry... do you want OTF sued for libel? Be careful of how you write stuff.

@Tenez... is one allowed to put such stuff here?

No Laverfan, of course doping talk and presumptuous proofs aren't allowed here.
What was I thinking?

So, what do you all think?

Larry Ellison wrote:So, what do you all think?

Well let me ask you what you think first...
Do you think they are using steroids and if you think that can you give me a plausible credible detailed reason as to why you believe it

Veejay wrote:

Larry Ellison wrote:So, what do you all think?

Well let me ask you what you think first...
Do you think they are using steroids and if you think that can you give me a plausible credible detailed reason as to why you believe it

?
Have you not read the article?

I actually specifically say I don't think either of them are using steroids.

Yes and you edited your comment,I dont believe you said that this first time around when I read it
If you remove that one sentence out of your comment,the whole article is very backhandedly written in such a way to make it seem like youre just asking an innocent question when youre really just speaking your mind and trying to avenge nadal for all the "abuse" youve had to deal with by reverting it to other popular players
You may think you narrowly escaped having to answer me,but youll probably have to sooner or later
So let me just get one thing clear here,you dont think Serena or Novak are doping at all,or do you think they arent doping but someone else is,or do you think no one is doping at all? ( yes doping,not just using steroids)

No I always said I didn't believe they were.

I edited in the word ' impartial'.

My answer is no, what do you think?

As in: No, theyre not doping.

Any way I could make it clearer?

Larry Ellison wrote:As in: No, theyre not doping.

Any way I could make it clearer?

No actually youre not making yourself clear cause your article doesnt give a reason why you dont believe they are doping
It actually does the opposite,youre making everyone aware of the reasons why youre suspicious
You didnt start this debate cause you dont believe they are doping cause if you believed that then there would be no reason to start this topic simply cause no one here is 100% certain if they are doping,apart from suspicions there isnt anything concrete to go by

Ok so you dont believe they are doping..then give me a plausible reason why believe that

im not quite getting your point amrit

Suming about....... cheese?

Veejay:
You avoided my question. I asked you what you think.

I think Serena and Nole are honest people, and I don't think they are doping.
This thread is not to do with Nadal btw, in case you are thinking of using that as another diversion to avoid answering my question.

luvsports! wrote:im not quite getting your point amrit

Suming about....... cheese?

Not really anything to do with cheese.

so an honest person won't take drugs? Right ok that ends the debate.

How can the debate be ended when no one actually answers the question in the first place?

You know my stance. I am always suspicious, that goes without saying.

But saying just because someone is honest does no way mean that they don't dope. That is laughable.

Well if theyre doping, theyre not honest are they.

Serena gives many reasons to doubt her. Though the state of women's tennis is such dire it may not require a player to dope to wipe the entire the field with dust.

Djokovic is just as suspicious. His transformation was almost miraculous for me and I'm not buying that gluteen story. In fact the Djokovic himself has stopped making those comment about glutten-free etc. and just goes to say "its private".

You know it isn't that black and white.
It even comes down to theories of motivation etc.
But we cannot know their particular motive.

Larry Ellison wrote:Well if theyre doping, theyre not honest are they.

I'd say rather it's not honest not to recognise that to achieve anything at high level sport one needs doping.

So you think Serena and Djokovic are doping?

.

.

Larry Ellison wrote:Veejay:
You avoided my question. I asked you what you think.

I think Serena and Nole are honest people, and I don't think they are doping.
This thread is not to do with Nadal btw, in case you are thinking of using that as another diversion to avoid answering my question.

I didnt avoid your question,I already answered it
But I will answer it again,I keep an open mind to the possibility that any player could be doping and yes I am more suspicious with some players more then others

Serena is a tough call,cause I think she may have doped at least once but if thats the case then I dont believe she does all the time
When Serena is out of shape,she gains a lot of weight,when she gets/is in shape,she really tones up and slims down-reason being that she obviously does a lot of cardio to build stamina.If she was suing steroids,she wouldnt be sliming down and having a lean macular frame,she would be bulking up more regardless of the cardio
Serena already has quite a natural athlete physique so it wouldnt take much for her to bulk up
Her phenomenal strength could easily be down to being a natural pure athlete,I believe this cause her strength never abandons her,its always there after every injury time off tour,her serve is consistent as is the power behind all her ground strokes.
She came back on 07 to blow the competition right off the court and win the AO when everyone said she wasnt even in shape
Women who use steroids generally develop masculine features,this would be true especially for someone like Serena,but even though she gets accused of looking like a man all the time,she doesnt actually have any steroid related features to suggest she uses them
In my opinion she doesnt really need steroids cause everything that steroids would offer her already comes naturally to her
Now just because I dont think she uses steroids doesnt rule out the possibility that she could be using another kind of PED that could help her with endurance or boost her aerobic capacity etc
But then again,shes pretty much the fittest female player on tour,she generally always outlasts her opponent cause she has that extra gear she can go to which not many of her opponents have -she can win through sheer will power and mental strength and when she's in shape playing to the best of her ability,she's pretty untouchable.I dont think she gets enough credit for her shot making ability,her game isnt all just power
If a lot of this was down to doping,her Serena slam would have been virtually impossible to achieve
So as you can see its nothing but speculation,nothing concrete,no real substantial evidence linking her or Venus to doping

Novak is definitely not on steroids,if he is then he is on some phenomenal new drug that no one has ever heard of
The only steroid out there that doesnt cause muscle growth/weight gain is Stanazanol
Because its water based,you need a high dosage for it to work,plus it takes a minimum of 6 weeks for the steroid to work
Djokovics build alone suggests that he wouldn't be on a very high dosage,not high enough to benefit from plus its highly unlikely that such an elite athlete would use such a common drug thats been on the mainstream circuit for ages and which several athletes have been caught doping with
If he is doping,he is using the best doping technology money can buy
Its far more plausible that he would be using something like EPO or Clenbuterol,as it would not only explain his extreme weight loss but his insane ability to endure keeping an intense level of play up for hours on end
His body is also consistent with using such types of drugs as he is quite cut and defined
Contrary to belief a drug like Clenbuterol could also work as a muscle antagonist,so while youre burning body fat youre also able to maintain and strengthen your muscle tone
However,the story his camp are putting out there is entirely plausible too,a change of diet could result in such weight loss and resolving food allergy could be the cause of all his previous fatigue problems
The only thing that makes me suspicious is that,while I believe the diet is everything with regards to training and getting the most out of your body and ensuring that youre not working against yourself,a change of diet just simply isnt enough to result in such epic marathon matches,especially if some of them are back to back
You have to remember that tennis is also a metal game too so to concentrate so intensely consistently for several hours is far more tiring then running a marathon,so what chance would you have if your body is also tired too?
Its impossible,so he is definitely using something else whether its legal or illegal,theres no way he is doing it on pure adrenaline alone
The same goes for all the players and other athletes in other sports ( including Federer) ,no one is competing on pure adrenalin alone,they are all using something,whether its banned or legal to get the most they can out of their body,no pro athlete stands a chance competing on natural energy alone,i wouldnt even be enough to simply meet the demand of being professional

I never mentioned Nadal and the reason behind your stance is pathetic and lame
Everyone looks honest and innocent till they get exposed or busted,they are only ever sorry they got caught,not that they doped,.
Its not enough to swing your view one way or the other,unless of course the athletes in question continually prove themselves to be liars and cheaters in various other ways

By the way my inbox is 100% full because of all the crap you keep sending me,I wont delete any of it cause I know it will come in handy sometime in the future..so whatever else you have to say to me you can say it here where you'll have loads of eye witnesses to back you up incase you conveniently forget what you said again

wilson_nxt wrote:

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote: Djokovic is just as suspicious. His transformation was almost miraculous

Geez, there's discord in the inner sanctum. This won't make you popular with the extremist Serbian fan club here. That said, between you and I, the reason this forum isn't growing isn't tenez (he's ok really) but that particular fan club element that is a genuinely bad catalyst on his views. They're nasty towards any poster who doesn't agree it seems to me. But for said element he'd be as outspoken as you about Djokovic, I'm sure of that. It seems the extremist element from that direction pervades through this whole forum and given that element posts at 5-6 times the frequency of everyone else the forum is somewhat coloured therein. In my opinion of course. Perhaps I was too hasty in my overall assessments, perhaps. But then maybe the aim isn't for this place to grow anyway.

Is that you Socal?
I can smell the manure a mile away....

take a bow vj, brilliant, informative post.

.

wilson, VJ just posted a very meticulous and informative post. He knows more about the subject than anyone else on here.
Why not just engage him in a debate.

If its in response to his other post then ok but I don't see why you are still here as all you do is criticise everyone on here. I have not said anything towards you so again why are you grouping us all together?

Since I've come on this forum, all I've really got is abuse, abuse and abuse.

Mickey sent me a really hurtful and nasty PM, whether it was 'racist' or 'nationist' I don't care- I can understand who it was aimed at.

And them some TMF guy who I don't even know joins the forum just so he can hurl abuse at me; the guy doesn't even talk about tennis, all he talks about is how evil I am and he knows everything about v2.
Then one of you find my facebook profile, which really freaked me out, what the intention was I'm not sure. How do I know that you guys won't try and find me in real life? You're all really weird, you've convinced that anyone who doesn't agree with all of you that Nadal is a 'rubbish moonballer' is an 'extremist'; god knows what you guys would do if you could get your hands on a Nadal fan.

And no I only have 1 account on this forum, and there's only one person I have introduced to this forum: Socal1976. There's nothing wrong with that, it helps the forum expand. Wilson Nxt is not Socal, he is a Federer fan who I think knew Tenez from TT Warehouse. When you have Federer fans; eg Summberblues and Wilson, saying this place has a hostile atmosphere and is extreme, what do you think it's like for me (a Nadal fan). When I first joined the forum I was advised to not say I'm a Nadal fan as I'd get abuse- and looking back I should have stuck to that advice.

Larry Ellison

Well I think its only fair that everyone else knows what you suspect and say of them Amri.Youre right,we are all commenting here week in and week out,plotting just so we can abuse you,and this forum was set up purely to find out personal details about you,so we could track you down and do unimaginable things to you...
yes amri..you exposed our genius plan,thats right...you caught red handed ....!!
LOL and you call us paranoid conspiracists!!!

Just one thing doesnt add up...if you fear all of this then why are you here?
If this forum is such a horrible hostile unbearable environment then why do you find it so hard to resist coming here and exposing yourself to all of that
You spend more time here then you did on V2

Whatever backlash you have been facing is no ones fault but your own Amri,you need to grow up and start taking responsibility for your actions
You cant continually carry on lying and making defamatory statements and not be held accountable for it

This forum allows people to have their say,so that means you will have to hear things that you dont like hearing or agreeing with
I dont see anyone here trying to convert you,if anything you and LF are constantly trying to shove your opinions down our throat.We are ok if you dont agree with us,its not the end of the world and it doesnt matter anyway cause we are confident and secure enough in our conviction that we dont feel insecure about any names you call us
If you dont agree with us thats fine,but if you want to debate here youre gonna need to do a lot better then gut feelings or denial especially if someone is throwing facts at you

wilson_nxt wrote:Haha, that's a bit rich and another one pointing fingers at Djokovic.
Is it only us outsiders that speak manure here?

No is mostly just you Socal,you suffer from a very severe case of verbal diarrhoea
By far the severest I have seen,far worse then Ruffin,Haddad and Shetty combined!
Even Amri makes more sense then you do
Anyway..its good to have you back again,I knew you couldnt go this long without your ego getting the better of you...did you miss me?

luvsports! wrote:take a bow vj, brilliant, informative post.

Thanks Luvsports

Veejay wrote:
Serena is a tough call,cause I think she may have doped at least once but if thats the case then I dont believe she does all the time

What do you think of the panic room incident?

Veejay wrote:
However,the story his camp are putting out there is entirely plausible too,a change of diet could result in such weight loss and resolving food allergy could be the cause of all his previous fatigue problems

That is what I believe regarding Djokovic.

btw Veejay, this is a tennis section- I would prefer it if your comments were to remain on-topic. Anyway you edited the PM I sent you. There is a 'everything else' section forum for... everything else.

What do you think of the panic room incident

I dont know,so I have no opinion on it.I wasnt there and I didnt even see anything about it on camera so everything is hear say
Some people will tell the story in a way that makes her look guilty and others will tell the story in a way that doesnt,so theres no point in me making a decision based on personal agenda.I have nothing against Serena so until I have more substantial evidence to go by,the incident is irrelevant
AlL I heard is that she ran into some room..now lets be real,how is running into a panic room going to help her escape from anything?She cant hide in there forever
If she was using some kind masking agent,she would need at least 6 hours for it to clear whatever she has in her system
I dont think an athlete would risk being in such a vulnerable situation that they would have to run and hide,most of the dopers are confident that they will pass a drugs test every time they step onto a court

I would prefer it if your comments were to remain on-topic. There is a 'everything else' section forum for... everything else.

Dont try and take the moral high ground with me Amri,you think we are all conspiracy nut cases when its clear for all to see that youre the biggest conspiracy nutcase of us all

Veejay wrote:I have nothing against Serena so until I have more substantial evidence to go by,the incident is irrelevant

Yep.

Veejay wrote:
Dont try and take the moral high ground with me Amri,you think we are all conspiracy nut cases when its clear for all that youre the biggest conspiracy nutcase of us all

I may/may not be, but this is off-topic for the thread. And section.

Has Socal already left??
I was waiting to hear what he has to say....

Veejay wrote:Has Socal already left??
I was waiting to hear what he has to say....

ROTFLMAO!

What a 2-face snake and a fleeing coward. Don’t you love the way amrit claimed “Wilson” is a fed fan and LF kept saying “read
wilson”! Now we know who the the Gang of Three are.

I don;t think Wilson is Socal. I'll double check but I doubt.

When it comes to trolling forums in same kind of league Amri and friends do,I think a different IP address proves nothing
Im not trying to convince anyone that Wilson is Socal,Im just saying that like Nadal himself,his fans are ahead of the game too looking for every given opportunity to troll
All they have to do is ask one of their other trolling buddies to run one of their ids while they use another one to prove they arent the same person
I also believe IP addresses can quite easily be changed if you have some IT experience

Another strange coincidence that Wilson didnt deny being Socal like Mickey didnt deny being Amri
Not even an attempt? If anyone ever accused me of being Socal I would go to great lengths to prove otherwise
Im sure a few others would also be offended,but Wilson ( who sounds a lot like Socal) isnt

You can check for IP address as well as location.

I knew Socal before he came on the forum, but not Wilson Nxt.

Veejay youre pathetic allegations have been disproven, you can say what you like.

Wilson hasn't been online today afternoon, check his profile.
How can you respond to something when you've not been on the forum.

Larry Ellison wrote:You can check for IP address as well as location.

I knew Socal before he came on the forum, but not Wilson Nxt.

Veejay youre pathetic allegations have been disproven, you can say what you like.

Nothing has been disproven,in fact the exact opposite has taken place
You have proven to live up to the reputation that precedes you

Larry Ellison wrote:Wilson hasn't been online today afternoon, check his profile.
How can you respond to something when you've not been on the forum.

It doesnt matter Amri,Wilson can be whoever he wants to be
I just found it strange that he knew so much about this forum before even coming here
And I find it truly bizarre that someone who has such an pinion of this forum would spend time reading whats written here and then deciding to join the community

Veejay, can you keep this nonsense allegations out of this thread.
This is the tennis section.

Tenez has done checks showing Mickey is based in Birmingham while im based in London. You have no evidence but continue with this nonsense.
Tenez is the admin here, if he finds that socal is wilson as you think he can take action.

You can say that I am bringing my friends to the forum, and this is good for expanding the site. The only person who I brought into the site is Socal, and he told me he doesn't want to visit the site anymore.

Veejay wrote:When it comes to trolling forums in same kind of league Amri and friends do,I think a different IP address proves nothing
Im not trying to convince anyone that Wilson is Socal,Im just saying that like Nadal himself,his fans are ahead of the game too looking for every given opportunity to troll
All they have to do is ask one of their other trolling buddies to run one of their ids while they use another one to prove they arent the same person
I also believe IP addresses can quite easily be changed if you have some IT experience

Another strange coincidence that Wilson didnt deny being Socal like Mickey didnt deny being Amri
Not even an attempt? If anyone ever accused me of being Socal I would go to great lengths to prove otherwise
Im sure a few others would also be offended,but Wilson ( who sounds a lot like Socal) isnt

I am not checking IP addresses. I am checking location. I can see where one is posting from and though there coudl be possibility to mix that up it's a bit harder than using 2 IP addresses.

I can see you. Larry and I are based in London for instance.

Veejay wrote:

Larry Ellison wrote:Wilson hasn't been online today afternoon, check his profile.
How can you respond to something when you've not been on the forum.

It doesnt matter Amri,Wilson can be whoever he wants to be
I just found it strange that he knew so much about this forum before even coming here
And I find it truly bizarre that someone who has such an pinion of this forum would spend time reading whats written here and then deciding to join the community

Wilson joined the site last year.
His complaints against the forum has been similar to the position of SB, albeit more direct.

Im not making any allegations,I am just voicing my suspicions
Why are you so paranoid and worried anyway?
If youre innocent then you have nothing to hide and nothing to worry about
I personally dont care who or what Wilson is,as long as its not someone multi idying
But you cant deny he sounds a awful lot like Socal,the style of writing and vocabulary is almost identical

Tenez wrote:

Veejay wrote:When it comes to trolling forums in same kind of league Amri and friends do,I think a different IP address proves nothing
Im not trying to convince anyone that Wilson is Socal,Im just saying that like Nadal himself,his fans are ahead of the game too looking for every given opportunity to troll
All they have to do is ask one of their other trolling buddies to run one of their ids while they use another one to prove they arent the same person
I also believe IP addresses can quite easily be changed if you have some IT experience

Another strange coincidence that Wilson didnt deny being Socal like Mickey didnt deny being Amri
Not even an attempt? If anyone ever accused me of being Socal I would go to great lengths to prove otherwise
Im sure a few others would also be offended,but Wilson ( who sounds a lot like Socal) isnt

I am not checking IP addresses. I am checking location. I can see where one is posting from and though there coudl be possibility to mix that up it's a bit harder than using 2 IP addresses.

I can see you. Larry and I are based in London for instance.

Yeah but I could easily as my friend TRuffin who lives in the states to sign in on my id and then it will say that I am located in the states
Thats my point
I dont think it proves anything

Veejay wrote:Im not making any allegations,I am just voicing my suspicions
Why are you so paranoid and worried anyway?
If youre innocent then you have nothing to hide and nothing to worry about
I personally dont care who or what Wilson is,as long as its not someone multi idying
But you cant deny he sounds a awful lot like Socal,the style of writing and vocabulary is almost identical

You said quite directly that I am Mickey. You only stopped that after Tenez proved you were wrong.
Wilson posts nothing like Socal, from what I have seen.