A few questions about great champions.

barrystar wrote:You say 'exposure' on grass, I think you mean 'competitive' exposure on grass - for sure they'll have masses of exposure on grass in their training.

They surely train on grass but to really train you need to play on the surface at competitive level, don't you think so? Djokovic and Nadal would not train on clay just before the FO....they d want real matches on it to get a proper feel of what it is to receive Isner or Karlo serve on it before entering the slam.

No, clearly, they know resting nowadays is more important. For federer, the shot maker, using thin margins, there is no way around getting proper matches, even if he could do with resting even more .

legendkillar wrote:For the sake of not derailing the original thread, Ten you said earlier posters were downplaying fitness. They are not. We accept it is a crucial part of the modern game, but not the only one. 

Now to the reason that Nadal and Djokovic don't play warm up events before Wimbledon? Who knows. They fact they choose not to doesn't suggest a sense of urgency for ranking points as opposed to players outside the top 10.

It s one thing saying fitness is important and another realising the extend to which it is and the extend to whcih players go to keep that edge. like in TdF we are no longer seeing youngsters winning it. Have you asked yourself what the hell Thomas had been doing before being 32?Could you have guessed he was going to be a champ when he was 22?...but more so in tennis where not only fitness counts but experience even more so.

Federer's view on this. He mentions experience as well.....even if in that case he makes it specific to grass. And I agree grass emphasises it even more.

Q. A lot of focus in the first week on young players, new faces. It seems like the second week looming large are the familiar names, both on the men's and women's side. Does this sort of speak to the experience, the value of experience, in this tournament moving forward now, we're seeing some of the familiar names?
ROGER FEDERER: I think the surprises were definitely there that first day with Stefanos and Sascha and everything, Dominic. Now, I do believe it's nice to have experience on this surface. The problem is it's not like you can play a ton of tournaments, just say, I'm going to focus on the grass court season this year. You can, and play three tournaments leading in, then maybe you'll be tired by the third match. It's just not so simple.

I lost my first rounds '99, 2000, had a run in '1, lost first round again 2002. I don't know if it was because of lack of experience. The panic can set in quickly on this surface. I don't know if that's got something to do, and if age calms the nerves there. I'm not sure. I think also it's maybe a moment in time.

At the same time we know how hard it is to beat Novak, how hard it is to beat Rafa here. Me, as well. I have a great record here. We obviously also have better draws because we're seeded, and we're away from the bigger seeds earlier. Our path to the fourth round is definitely not as hard as maybe some of the younger guys on the tour, as well.

And some more reasons....essentially more depth and surface specialised players.

I think on the men's side maybe at 15 it's not possible, I don't think, to go through a slam. At 17 and 18, what Rafa did or Becker did or Borg did, I think it's possible. I do believe the depth is bigger on the men's and women's side, so you need to beat more better players every round, whereas maybe in the past I don't think the depth was at great. There were maybe more specialists of the surface around, which is maybe making things more complicated. I'm not sure.

Matthew Syed asked himself much the same question in this morning's Times, and this is an extract from his article:

A few months ago, Fredrik Rosengren, the former coach of Kyle Edmund, the British No 1, said: “They don’t practise nearly as hard as the older players.


“For example, the day before the competition in Paris [the Masters], Carlos Moyá [the coach of Nadal] came to me and asked, ‘Can Kyle play from 11 till 1 with Rafa?’ This was two hours of practice, and then more in the afternoon. There is no one else doing that among the younger players.”

Tenez wrote: The panic can set in quickly on this surface

That is so true - an early break and then you say to yourself, it's grass, how the **** am I going to break back, and that puts more pressure on your serve.  

Look at how Nadal plays, all out for an early break. Against Kyrgios that was crucial, getting the early break and then, relatively, cruising to the 1st set only having to defend his serve.

Historically, according to the ATP - Djokovic and Nadal are on c.95% winning percentage after winning the first set, Fed not far behind on 93%.  As I recall, none of the players are on >50% after losing the first set.  Obviously those stats includes bo3 matches, when there is less time to recover from losing the first set, but it does lend some support to Fed's point about panic on grass in particular.

Tenez wrote:Federer's view on this. He mentions experience as well.....even if in that case he makes it specific to grass. And I agree grass emphasises it even more.

Q. A lot of focus in the first week on young players, new faces. It seems like the second week looming large are the familiar names, both on the men's and women's side. Does this sort of speak to the experience, the value of experience, in this tournament moving forward now, we're seeing some of the familiar names?
ROGER FEDERER: I think the surprises were definitely there that first day with Stefanos and Sascha and everything, Dominic. Now, I do believe it's nice to have experience on this surface. The problem is it's not like you can play a ton of tournaments, just say, I'm going to focus on the grass court season this year. You can, and play three tournaments leading in, then maybe you'll be tired by the third match. It's just not so simple.

I lost my first rounds '99, 2000, had a run in '1, lost first round again 2002. I don't know if it was because of lack of experience. The panic can set in quickly on this surface. I don't know if that's got something to do, and if age calms the nerves there. I'm not sure. I think also it's maybe a moment in time.

At the same time we know how hard it is to beat Novak, how hard it is to beat Rafa here. Me, as well. I have a great record here. We obviously also have better draws because we're seeded, and we're away from the bigger seeds earlier. Our path to the fourth round is definitely not as hard as maybe some of the younger guys on the tour, as well.

Well he said he didn't know if it was experience. What is intriguing is he talks about being tired into a tournament. So it's not the youngsters are not getting near enough any experience, as barry stated further down, just not practising hard enough. I recall Murray saying the exact same thing when the jewel in the crown that was Roehampton when there was not a youngster in sight. Murray offered to hit with the youngsters and not a soul showed up. 

What is interesting is he talks about having better draws. Again something I was saying earlier how being so well seeded has given them advantages in the earlier rounds.

legendkillar wrote:
Well he said he didn't know if it was experience......

ROGER FEDERER: I think the surprises were definitely there that first day with Stefanos and Sascha and everything, Dominic. Now, I do believe it's nice to have experience on this surface.

Tenez wrote:

legendkillar wrote:
Well he said he didn't know if it was experience......

ROGER FEDERER: I think the surprises were definitely there that first day with Stefanos and Sascha and everything, Dominic. Now, I do believe it's nice to have experience on this surface.

He did hedge his bets a bit more than that:

Roger Federer: I lost my first rounds '99, 2000, had a run in '1, lost first round again 2002. I don't know if it was because of lack of experience. The panic can set in quickly on this surface. I don't know if that's got something to do, and if age calms the nerves there. I'm not sure. I think also it's maybe a moment in time.

barrystar wrote:

Tenez wrote:

legendkillar wrote:
Well he said he didn't know if it was experience......

ROGER FEDERER: I think the surprises were definitely there that first day with Stefanos and Sascha and everything, Dominic. Now, I do believe it's nice to have experience on this surface.

He did hedge his bets a bit more than that:

Roger Federer: I lost my first rounds '99, 2000, had a run in '1, lost first round again 2002. I don't know if it was because of lack of experience. The panic can set in quickly on this surface. I don't know if that's got something to do, and if age calms the nerves there. I'm not sure. I think also it's maybe a moment in time.

Exactly. He can't speak for everyone on the tour as to what works for them as opposed to what doesn't.

For me the bigger question is are youngsters using tournament experience to compensate for the lack of perceived practice? Because I'd be intrigued to see how it pans out at the USO. The big 3 will play the Masters as warm ups and I am willing to bet the rest of the field will do too as well as a 500 event.

He is talking about now..."I do believe experience counts"...and then regarding him 20 years ago...he is not sure.

2 different times. He even says not the same depth as now.

As stated Ten, these guys played all the warm up events prior to Wimbledon. The are gaining that match experience on grass as well as surface experience. 

It can't go any further really because if Nadal and Djokovic are not playing those events, they will never get the regular experience of playing them. They have to hope essentially age gets to Nadal and Djokovic. 

I can't say during this event the courts have helped!!! Or even the balls. Like bloody Velcro the courts.