La Finale inattendue!!!! Here we go again!

gallery play wrote:

Tenez wrote:

gallery play wrote:

Tenez wrote:

gallery play wrote:

Tenez wrote:Too loopy shots from Dimi. But he has some power too.

He'll surprise you some more this year
Trust me

When he is 30+ ....probably.

You're holding your argument against the wrong poster my friend. 

Or is it you can't approve my take on Nadal today? (being a step slower)

I know you have been staying out of this argument.

Because i don't see it as black or white as you guys.

Like today: Fed's BH seems better than ever at 35, and Nadal's physique at 30 seemed not as good as it ever was(after a 5 hour match)
Who's right, who's wrong? There is no 1 truth.

I never said that at 30 one recovers better than 26. I am just adding all the factors together and the main point to my argument is that there is no better way to improve than being exposed to the best players. So as good as Fed was young, playing Nadal and Djoko coudl only make him a better player...and reciprocally.

And the fact slams have been won by older players lately (since technology remained the same) to me seals the point.

Veejay wrote:interesting post match interview with euro sport 
federer talking about his mental demons,how he feels like he has overcome them - play the ball not the player 
it really looks like he has a different take on his rivalry with nadal
that was really clear to see in the 5th set
you would have thought that roger would be the one to get really tight and choke but it was nadal instead 
this is a massive victory especially mentally for him and a huge mental blow for nadal as the match was wrapped up and on his racket 
we could be seeing roger bet nadal more often now

Difficult to read into this. Again, with slower balls, or Federer having one day less of rest he most likely woudl have lost this match today.

Nadal won so many close matches in the past against much worst players that we forget how crap his shots have always been. But in the past he was bagging tons of UEs from his opponents. Today everybody knows to handle him a bit better ....despite his progress in ball strking and taking teh ball earlier.

for me it doesnt really matter how he won,its the fact that he won from a mental point of view,even NITB said it federer looks really relaxed
he is going out there playing with nothing to lose and nothing to prove...no pressure 
in his previous grand slam matches or finals with nadal,there was always a lot on the line,i dont think that he felt that so much this time round

securing that 18th major is also another massive confidence boost,he now knows he can still win majors and as long as that belief is still there,he is bound to go and achieve more great things 

god imagine if he just decided to retire after wimbledon last year,we were all so gutted seeing him lose to raonic,cant be happier to see him back competing and winning

legendkillar wrote:I hope BB is watching this behind some volcano in Iceland!

I was in the air, chewing every nail on my hands and working towards my feet.

Frankly guys, I'm glad I didn't see it live. I wouldn't have survived it.

Today I'm, pure and simple, a hopeless fanboy. It's embarrassing for a grown man but it's in the greatest of causes.

Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad!

Veejay wrote:for me it doesnt really matter how he won,its the fact that he won from a mental point of view,even NITB said it federer looks really relaxed
he is going out there playing with nothing to lose and nothing to prove...no pressure 
in his previous grand slam matches or finals with nadal,there was always a lot on the line,i dont think that he felt that so much this time round

securing that 18th major is also another massive confidence boost,he now knows he can still win majors and as long as that belief is still there,he is bound to go and achieve more great things 

god imagine if he just decided to retire after wimbledon last year,we were all so gutted seeing him lose to raonic,cant be happier to see him back competing and winning

True, but!!

We owe it big time to AO for providing faster conditions.

That, and only that allowed Federer to last till the final.

Had the balls been the same as before, he would have not made it.
He would have been same relaxed, but dead tired...like against Nole in Wimbledon 2015 etc...
He would have to hit many more retrieved balls, cover lot more ground...and it all adds up in those legs.
So a HUGE thank you to Ozzies!!!

Unfortunately, I am not expecting the repeat of the same organisers' bravery in RG, Wimbledon or USO.

As I posted at the beginning of this thread, someone already complained about conditions "rigged" to suit Federer.

bogbrush wrote:

legendkillar wrote:I hope BB is watching this behind some volcano in Iceland!

I was in the air, chewing every nail on my hands and working towards my feet.

Frankly guys, I'm glad I didn't see it live. I wouldn't have survived it.

Today I'm, pure and simple, a hopeless fanboy. It's embarrassing for a grown man but it's in the greatest of causes.

You are not alone....and I am not young either. For some reasons Fed wining is a bit like the world going in the direction.....which clearly isn't outside tennis.

And BTW GP about nadal feeling tired today...Nadal also lost 6 games in a row in Miami 05 and 4 at Wimbledon 07 in those 5th sets. In 07 Nadal was at the top of his form and did not have such a tough match in his semi.....if I remember correctly. We could clearly see him tire then already.

Lump in the throat, beautiful video:

Tenez wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

legendkillar wrote:I hope BB is watching this behind some volcano in Iceland!

I was in the air, chewing every nail on my hands and working towards my feet.

Frankly guys, I'm glad I didn't see it live. I wouldn't have survived it.

Today I'm, pure and simple, a hopeless fanboy. It's embarrassing for a grown man but it's in the greatest of causes.

You are not alone....and I am not young either. For some reasons Fed wining is a bit like the world going in the direction.....which clearly isn't outside tennis.

I hear you Bogbrush. It was hard to take up to 2-2 and I think that's the first time I've switched Fed off when he went 0-2 in the fifth....
For me, it's justice to see that level of talent pay off. Finally getting the upper hand over Nadal.  What a way to win 18.  I said the other day to a mate (before SF were played) that if it were to make the final and it was Nadal there - and he won to make it 18 - that there would not be a better way to win it.  And he did.  Somehow it happened!!

Tenez wrote:And BTW GP about nadal feeling tired today...Nadal also lost 6 games in a row in Miami 05 and 4 at Wimbledon 07 in those 5th sets. In 07 Nadal was at the top of his form and did not have such a tough match in his semi.....if I remember correctly. We could clearly see him tire then already.

Nadal was playing by the rules in Miami 2005, as you know! That means he ran out of gas.
Wimbledon 2007 he was outplayed when the real Federer stood up. Took a while that day.

Anyway, you're are not going to convince me Nadal wasn't a tiny step slower today. He was, from the first till the last point.

But hey, i've just seen the fifth set for a third time: nevermind Nadal's speed! We gave it too much attention already.
Fed played the set of his life. I don't know how he kept his cool and remained so positive. We've seen him getting despondent or even depressed in similar situations but he kept on believing today. In fact, it was Nadal who looked worried throughout, even when he was a break up. He must have felt Federer was not going to give in this time.

That's true.  And after some serious bottle job moments too... and going down to 1-3....  to pick himself up and play such a standard to win it is a phenomenal achievement.  And I keep saying it to make sure it's real.... it was against NADAL!

I just watched the match all through. I knew the outcome but nothing at all of the score.

At 1-3 in the 5th I took a peek at the news to confirm Federer really won it because that was a complete non-starter in the history of Federer v Nadal. Probably the high spot of Rigers career, early on it was all so easy but this was astonishing.

By the way, I must say Nadal was exceptionally gracious in his speech. I think that's one area where he does excel over Roger.

gallery play wrote:

Tenez wrote:And BTW GP about nadal feeling tired today...Nadal also lost 6 games in a row in Miami 05 and 4 at Wimbledon 07 in those 5th sets. In 07 Nadal was at the top of his form and did not have such a tough match in his semi.....if I remember correctly. We could clearly see him tire then already.

Nadal was playing by the rules in Miami 2005, as you know! That means he ran out of gas.
Wimbledon 2007 he was outplayed when the real Federer stood up. Took a while that day.

you should see those last games of Wimby 07...his arm was tired and he made the same very unexpected UEs from his FH. Itls actually 5 games in a row he lost today and in a very similar fashion as WImby 07.

bogbrush wrote:I just watched the match all through. I knew the outcome but nothing at all of the score.

At 1-3 in the 5th I took a peek at the news to confirm Federer really won it because that was a complete non-starter in the history of Federer v Nadal. Probably the high spot of Rigers career, early on it was all so easy but this was astonishing.

By the way, I must say Nadal was exceptionally gracious in his speech. I think that's one area where he does excel over Roger..

Really?
Why?

I thought the opposite...he looked so stormy, like didn't expect to lose this title, mentioned how he'll let Roger keep the trophy or stg...

Fed was so goofy and happy, he said some really funny things!

bogbrush wrote:

By the way, I must say Nadal was exceptionally gracious in his speech. I think that's one area where he does excel over Roger.

Really?  I thought it was endless prattle and platitude from a narcissist.  He went on way too long. I take what he does on court as the indicator to what he thinks. And he's an ass.  If my opponent acted like Nadal, I'd aim every smash shot at him until he stopped.

I rarely say this, but hats off to the BBC for recalling what the great commentator Harry Carpenter said when Muhammed Ali beat George Forman:

"Oh my God! He's won the title back at 35!"

Regarding Nadal speech, well we'll have to disagree. I thought he was pretty good. It must have been tough to lose.

Watched some of the highlights that I missed, slept in and missed the first set and a half. So happy the curse of Nadal is off his back for once.

Hope they don't play in a slam again though because it makes me far too anxious ....

AceofDeath wrote:Watched some of the highlights that I missed, slept in and missed the first set and a half. So happy the curse of Nadal is off his back for once.

Hope they don't play in a slam again though because it makes me far too anxious ....

They won't play in a Slam final again. I can assure you of that. As for any round?  It's possible, of course.  But I relish it.  I hope it happens at Wimbledon.

Or even funnier, how about Roger beats Nadal at FO?

AceofDeath wrote:Watched some of the highlights that I missed, slept in and missed the first set and a half. So happy the curse of Nadal is off his back for once.

Hope they don't play in a slam again though because it makes me far too anxious ....

Hi Acey!

I am still defrosting emotionally.

It all started from last night...I was almost like on a psychiatrist couch pouring my mind out...

And just could not allow myself to be happy until I found it the score.

And when I did I felt so numb and spent...just watching clips now...that one with his tears is  overwhelming.

What a crazy 24 hours it's been.

It did happen, didn't it?

bogbrush wrote:I rarely say this, but hats off to the BBC for recalling what the great commentator Harry Carpenter said when Muhammed Ali beat George Forman:

"Oh my God! He's won the title  back at 35!"

Fed finally beat his Foreman and surpassed Ali's greatness today. This was the only thing missing for that status.
Now he made it :Fed is the GOAT of all sports

NITB wrote:

AceofDeath wrote:Watched some of the highlights that I missed, slept in and missed the first set and a half. So happy the curse of Nadal is off his back for once.

Hope they don't play in a slam again though because it makes me far too anxious ....

Hi Acey!

I am still defrosting emotionally.

It all started from last night...I was almost like on a psychiatrist couch pouring my mind out...

And just could not allow myself to be happy until I found it the score.

And when I did I felt so numb and spent...just watching clips now...that one with his tears is  overwhelming.

What a crazy 24 hours it's been.

It did happen, didn't it?

NITB

I was ready to give up checking the score if Nadal had gone 4-2 up in the 5th.... I hurt my hand from slapping the floor in anger when Roger lost those 3 BP's in a row Winning this match and #18 makes me believe anything is possible.

Roger Federer	2017	Australian
Mats Wilander	1982	French
Bjorn Borg	1978	French
Guillermo Vilas	1977	French

What's the connection? can you work it out.  Free icecream* to the one who gets it first.


*if you ever meet me in person.

AceofDeath wrote:

NITB wrote:

AceofDeath wrote:Watched some of the highlights that I missed, slept in and missed the first set and a half. So happy the curse of Nadal is off his back for once.

Hope they don't play in a slam again though because it makes me far too anxious ....

Hi Acey!

I am still defrosting emotionally.

It all started from last night...I was almost like on a psychiatrist couch pouring my mind out...

And just could not allow myself to be happy until I found it the score.

And when I did I felt so numb and spent...just watching clips now...that one with his tears is  overwhelming.

What a crazy 24 hours it's been.

It did happen, didn't it?

NITB

I was ready to give up checking the score if Nadal had gone 4-2 up in the 5th.... I hurt my hand from slapping the floor in anger when Roger lost those 3 BP's in a row Winning this match and #18 makes me believe anything is possible.

I know...

The whole thing is so hard to grasp for me atm.

It was like a miracle. Like it had to happen. I had the hunch, that it was possible.
But now that it happened it's too much to take in.

I've always had the daredevil mindset than anything is possible but this takes the cake!!!!!

It did something to me, moved me forward, I felt pushed over some precipice in my brain.
Probably closest thing to flying, or beating he fear of it.

gsays im off tou go hav sex, fed ksiasss bye bbyyy drnikk to much drnunkk byyeee

Jahu wrote:gsays im off tou go hav sex, fed ksiasss bye bbyyy drnikk to much drnunkk byyeee

Look what Fed winning does to people...

Daniel wrote:

Roger Federer	2017	Australian
Mats Wilander	1982	French
Bjorn Borg	1978	French
Guillermo Vilas	1977	French

What's the connection? can you work it out.  Free icecream* to the one who gets it first.


*if you ever meet me in person.

Wins after 3 5 set matches?

Nope.
Federer is the only person to achieve that feat.

gallery play wrote:

bogbrush wrote:I rarely say this, but hats off to the BBC for recalling what the great commentator Harry Carpenter said when Muhammed Ali beat George Forman:

"Oh my God! He's won the title  back at 35!"

Fed finally beat his Foreman and surpassed Ali's greatness today. This was the only thing missing for that status.
Now he made it :Fed is the GOAT of all sports

I agree with that.

McEnroe before the match...if Nadal wins then surely he should be name the GOAT......

What an idiot....where was he at 35?

Daniel wrote:Nope.
Federer is the only person to achieve that feat.

Wrong...should I say again?

Stefan Edberg USO 92!

Tenez wrote:McEnroe before the match...if Nadal wins then surely he should be name the GOAT......

What an idiot....where was he at 35?

Hard to believe such an intelligent player can be so stupid.

bogbrush wrote:

Tenez wrote:McEnroe before the match...if Nadal wins then surely he should be name the GOAT......

What an idiot....where was he at 35?

Hard to believe such an intelligent player can be so stupid.

A very talented player....intelligent? I thought Lendl was a bit smarter actually.

Daniel wrote:

Roger Federer	2017	Australian
Mats Wilander	1982	French
Bjorn Borg	1978	French
Guillermo Vilas	1977	French

What's the connection? can you work it out.  Free icecream* to the one who gets it first.


*if you ever meet me in person.

Hmm

Fathers? No
Sets lost? No
Ages? No
Hairstyles? No

No idea.

No icecream* for you!It's only been done 4 times... above.

They all have an R either in their name or surname....or both.

Gaudio won three 5 setters in is 04 FO win.

luvsports! wrote:Gaudio won three 5 setters in is 04 FO win.

You're right.  The article I saw was wrong.  Is that the only other one?

Any case, the original question still stands 

Daniel wrote:

luvsports! wrote:Gaudio won three 5 setters in is 04 FO win.

You're right.  The article I saw was wrong.  Is that the only other one?

Any case, the original question still stands 

No I also told you about Edberg USO 92...3 5 setters and a 4 setter in teh final.

How about each beat 4 top 10 players?

I think I'm right there!

Imagine if Federer had got to beat Andy Murray. That would be beating 5 top tenners, which if you'd asked me before I'd have thought was impossible given the structure of the draw but on reflection clearly isn't.

Federer certainly wasn't handed this one on a cakewalk draw.

Tenez wrote:

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

Tenez wrote:

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Tenez, you are going to be alone in your theories  about a lot of things on tennis. No tennis experts or anyone or even historic data would share it with you.

You are fine with that, I believe. I'm too fine with it.

Well. I dunno what you have been watching recently but the pundits are actually all saying now what I have been saying since 2009!.

Sorry but NO.

A 35yo won against his 30yo nemesis today. Those are facts. You might say NO to facts, but that's the reality.

And to be fair I did not expect Fed to win today at the end of teh tournament but one thing for sure I woudl have given him even much less chance with is 2009 BH and serve.

There very few things you say has even been approved by players, coaches, and even historic facts. I can detail then out, we have our discussion right here. But as usual you'll deny them. I'll give only 3 examples. So go ahead bring out any player's coach or any authentic tennis expert who shares any of the below 3 views that you have been saying since 2009.

1. Not a single player, coach or any tennis expert would share your 'getting tired in the first set against Nadal' theory. 
2. You say Nadal's confidence and fearless tennis playing top opponents even when he was an inexperienced young 18-19 yo was just due his muscles and fitness. 
3. You think Fed has no  game-wise match-up disadvantage when playing Nadal, it was juts due to Fed's smaller racquet and now since Fed has moved to a bigger frame, he can easily beat Nadal.

ROTLA, while I agree with some of your take on this I don't think Nadal was ever an inexperienced 18-19 yo. He'd been taking to the court with proper players for a while and had doubtless felt their discomfort at his revolutionary (in every sense of the word) game.

I do think the racquet has changed the dynamic of Federer / Nadal. Yesterday that backhand was a pure weapon. 

His coaches also deserve praise for rebooting his approach to playing Nadal. 13 years ago he was playing Nadal as he did Rodduck; get the serve back and win the rally. Or not, as it turned out. By the time he wised up (which took a long time, to his and his coaches discredit) the game had slowed ever further and baggage had set in. Now, seemingly refreshed by a haitus in their matches and unburdened by expectation, Federer has a whole new strategy and if they play again, so long as the Court is reasonably rewarding, I would back him to beat Rafa. There isn't time to recover the h2h but if they were to meet up a few more times, perhaps indoors or at Dubai or Cincinnati, it might adopt a more balanced look.

Tenez wrote:

gallery play wrote:

Tenez wrote:

gallery play wrote:

Tenez wrote:Too loopy shots from Dimi. But he has some power too.

He'll surprise you some more this year
Trust me

When he is 30+ ....probably.

You're holding your argument against the wrong poster my friend. 

Or is it you can't approve my take on Nadal today? (being a step slower)

I know you have been staying out of this argument.

Nadal says he was a bit slower today "but that's normal after a long match v Dimi". So I guess yuo might be right. Personally I only noticed on a couple of points....if that.

In any case I think he was made to look slower cause Federer took the ball considerably earlier than Dimi...and overall much less loopy shots.

Fed executed as good as ever for 3 sets and worse for 2 of them. Why? not sure but he certainly showed today that he has the strongest mind of them all cause winning with such margins requires amazing mental strength. Not comparable with a fit moonballer.

Apparently Ljubo and Severin told him it's all mental! Well when you have his talent...sure the mental side is simply essential.

Tallies with what I was saying post Nadal/Dimitrov match

And even Federer with Mats afterwards was saying he knew it was mental and said he felt relaxed. Said that not playing Rafa in period when he was adjusting to the new racquet helped massively. What was more amazing was he said even against Stan when it went to a fifth he started to relax more and play aggressively.

I think what was telling was the breaks in the matches. When Federer broke, apart from serving for the match, the next service game he held to love whereas Nadal struggled being that comprehensive in his service games following the breaks.

bogbrush wrote:ROTLA, while I agree with some of your take on this I don't think Nadal was ever an inexperienced 18-19 yo. He'd been taking to the court with proper players for a while and had doubtless felt their discomfort at his revolutionary (in every sense of the word) game.

Taking to court and playing them in big matches have differences like earth and sky. And he was doing it day in and out, not just on 1-2 odd good days. Still under an case that experience wasn't attributed to his muscles.

bogbrush wrote:I do think the racquet has changed the dynamic of Federer / Nadal. Yesterday that backhand was a pure weapon. 

Even I think the new racquet has helped Fed. But that still doesn't mean now it has turned the table in his favour. Nadal's game still stacks up big against Fed. Its still difficult for him. And this is how its always going to be. Fed and every tennis player commentator acknowledges it.

bogbrush wrote:His coaches also deserve praise for rebooting his approach to playing Nadal. 13 years ago he was playing Nadal as he did Rodduck; get the serve back and win the rally. Or not, as it turned out. By the time he wised up (which took a long time, to his and his coaches discredit) the game had slowed ever further and baggage had set in. Now, seemingly refreshed by a haitus in their matches and unburdened by expectation, Federer has a whole new strategy and if they play again, so long as the Court is reasonably rewarding, I would back him to beat Rafa. There isn't time to recover the h2h but if they were to meet up a few more times, perhaps indoors or at Dubai or Cincinnati, it might adopt a more balanced look.

Honestly did you back Fed to win yesterday? After seeing him go 1-3 down in 5th?

But LK - Woudl it be mental had the balls been as big as last year? Would it be mental had he played with his old 90inch racquet? Mental? if he was not a one in a century genius able to pull shots no one else can?

Was it mental for Nadal to win 4 FO yet not able to beat a seeded player at the medium paced USO?

The thing that this AO taught us is that the so-called mentally strong players, those who have developed a roadrunner game with a mental as strong as their "wall" game (retrieving everything) turn into mental midgets when the conds become faster.

Nadal was teh one panicking cause he knew Fed coudl find wholes in his wall. Then the mental side is a bit reversed....yet one needed a genius to do it.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Even I think the new racquet has helped Fed. But that still doesn't mean now it has turned the table in his favour.

That's why I don;t follow the logic with you. Of course those simple details make a big difference. Bolt is a fastest runner ....up to 200m...for longer distances he is not. Same in tennis. You can be good on clay but not so much on fast conditions. Wilander won 7 slams ...none at Wimbledon. Pete won 14, never on clay....not even a final. Do you think Fed woudl have won with his old racquet?

Honestly did you back Fed to win yesterday? After seeing him go 1-3 down in 5th?

Maybe not...but in restrospect, I fancy him winning in 3....had he not played horribly in that second set.

Tenez wrote:But LK - Woudl it be mental had the balls been as big as last year? Would it be mental had he played with his old 90inch racquet? Mental? if he was not a one in a century genius able to pull shots no one else can?

Was it mental for Nadal to win 4 FO yet not able to beat a seeded player at the medium paced USO?

The thing that this AO taught us is that the so-called mentally strong players, those who have developed a roadrunner game with a mental as strong as their "wall" game (retrieving everything) turn into mental midgets when the conds become faster.

Nadal was teh one panicking cause he knew Fed coudl find wholes in his wall. Then the mental side is a bit reversed....yet one needed a genius to do it.

All contribute to the element of mental strength. Thing is Ten lets take Nadal losing at the US Open and never reaching a final until 2010. He would've had those holes in his mentality that at that venue and on those courts he couldn't win that tournament. The courts may not have played faster than he expected, but still by association and all those defeats previously still had a hold over him. That happens in any sport. Look at Wimbledon. Look at his results post 2011 and tell me that similarly to the US Open that Wimbledon/Grass is not in his mind. His one last stranglehold was Clay and RG and once Djokovic beat him there, his results on Clay as to what we expect have dropped off dramatically.

Back to this tournament Ten. Look at what Federer said pre-match yesterday in which he said he didn't feel comfortable until he beat Berdych and that is despite playing lesser mortals beforehand. He would've had a whiff that the conditions were quicker and there was much more purchase on his shots.

You made a point about Federer during the match he had to work harder than Nadal and disagree with that given as the conditions fitted Federer's game perfectly it was Nadal who was under the more pressure to get the match on his terms and he struggled with that.

Look no further than the serving game for the title. For a guy who has won numerous Slams, Masters and been the number 1. Even after all that and Nadal the other side of the court broken, he still struggled to maintain composure. Look at the winning FH!! absolute miss hit!

The biggest thing was when he said not playing Rafa for a while helped massively and it had. Playing Rafa only once in 3 years. A lot had changed and that was the key obstacle for Roger to overcome, trying to grasp and hang on to the thought that the Rafa he was going to face was not that brute force he once was and that coupled with a set conditions that favour him.

bogbrush wrote:How about each beat 4 top 10 players?

We have a winner! 

Well done, Bogbrush.