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Fognini-Nadal : Stop Taking So Much Time! (Justice For Bernardes!)

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Fognini-Nadal : Stop Taking So Much Time! (Justice For Bernardes!)

Post by ... on Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:00 pm

Sorry, can't find the link on Youtube (must've been taken off) but if you scroll down in this article, you'll see it.

Fognini has enough of Nadal's abusing time between the points and lets him know about it!

Shame on you for allowing him to, umpire!


JUSTICE FOR BERNARDES!!!!!!!

http://sport.blic.rs/Tenis/276758/VELIKA-SVADjA-Fonjini-isprozivao-Nadala-usred-finala-VIDEO

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Re: Fognini-Nadal : Stop Taking So Much Time! (Justice For Bernardes!)

Post by gallery play on Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:34 pm

Bravo Fabio!! I wish more players had the guts to stand up.

Problem with NAdal is, it's almost a certainty he'll win the match after an incident like that. After Fabio's outburst, Nadal didn't lose another game.
Being provoked puts him in his safe and beloved underdog position.

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Re: Fognini-Nadal : Stop Taking So Much Time! (Justice For Bernardes!)

Post by ... on Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:46 pm

Wilander was right when he said Federer had no ba**s.

Had he stood up to Nadal early on, things could have been different.

I am not buying Tenez's explanation that Federer was trying to preserve interests of the sport/his no sore loser image with Nadal fans.

Nadal is a bully and there is only one way to deal with a bully - you hit back hard.
Where there is a will, there is a way.

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Re: Fognini-Nadal : Stop Taking So Much Time! (Justice For Bernardes!)

Post by gallery play on Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:14 pm

It's not in Federer's system to play by prison rules, so he stayed away from that.

Federer lost his "balls" in the Rome 2006 final. Even 5 hours of outplaying NAdal and constantly having the momentum in the fifth (break up, 2 mps's, mini break up) wasn't enough. From that match on Federer always figured he had to play a 100% perfect game to beat Nadal. That mindset worked against him on several occasions. He never overcame adversity against Nadal again.

You have a point: fight fire with fire, but like i said, against Nadal it doesn't work. Soderling did not beat Nadal when he provoked him (which he clearly did at Wimbledon), but when he kept his composure.
Even Djoko changed his attitude towards Nadal completely, you have to agree on that.

I think what Rosol did was ideal (hardly a reaction after Nadal's bump). Against a bull you don't want to pull the Sumo strategy, but Judo instead

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Re: Fognini-Nadal : Stop Taking So Much Time! (Justice For Bernardes!)

Post by ... on Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:40 pm

Well, that's just it!

We all know how long Nadal was taking between points in the past...he had a free rein...could outlast and outbludgeon anyone - hence Federer's perceived need for 100%.

But we can all now see how beatable he is when that extra oxygen supply is cut off from him by applying rules.

Imagine if Bernardes was Bernardes back in 2005,6....

It took AO 2012 final for people to realise something was wrong with tennis.

Nobody minded long dull Fedal rallies because Fedsrer was making them watchable, but at the same he was time keeping Nadal alive and even worse - feeding him into the "invincible" beast.

That was his mistake. Federer created the monster.

He should have said something.

I know it's easier said than done, esp as he was number one and having to see each other almost every day...but if he did it once, OK, he'd feel very uncomfortable, but it would have probably worked.

Federer's silence condoned Nadal.

Nole changed the lingo, but he showed his teeth back in 2006, was mocked big time for it...and I had a world of respect for him because of it.

Same for Fognini, Rosol, Darcis...the "nobodies".

Anyway...not a lot that can be done about it now.

Still, great to see occasional rebelion, just to get that smug strut a bit wobblier when he jumps at the net before the match next time they play.

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Re: Fognini-Nadal : Stop Taking So Much Time! (Justice For Bernardes!)

Post by ... on Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:55 pm

New details on yesterday's spat:

apparently Fognini originally complained to the umpire about Toni's coaching, telling Nadal what to do...then Nadal said to the umpore to shut Fognini up and that he is talking too much...that's when Fognini lost it and said what he did.

http://www.b92.net/sport/tenis/vesti.php?yyyy=2015&mm=08&dd=03&nav_id=1023061

Btw, did you notice how it's impossible to find anything about this in Western media....sad, isn't it?

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Re: Fognini-Nadal : Stop Taking So Much Time! (Justice For Bernardes!)

Post by Tenez on Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:57 pm

gallery play wrote:It's not in Federer's system to play by prison rules, so he stayed away from that.

Federer lost his "balls" in the Rome 2006 final. Even 5 hours of outplaying NAdal and constantly having the momentum in the fifth (break up, 2 mps's, mini break up) wasn't enough. From that match on Federer always figured he had to play a 100% perfect game to beat Nadal. That mindset worked against him on several occasions. He never overcame adversity against Nadal again.

You have a point: fight fire with fire, but like i said, against Nadal it doesn't work. Soderling did not beat Nadal when he provoked him (which he clearly did at Wimbledon), but when he kept his composure.
Even Djoko changed his attitude towards Nadal completely, you have to agree on that.

I think what Rosol did was ideal (hardly a reaction after Nadal's bump). Against a bull you don't want to pull the Sumo strategy, but Judo instead

Very true. From my experience, it's the same. Asa I get angry at my opponent abusing gamesmaship, I am the one losing my edge...and game.

Djoko knows it....it took as long as Nadal and so does Murray....but those 2 don;t use much sharpness in their game so they are not as affected as guys like Fed or Fog.

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Re: Fognini-Nadal : Stop Taking So Much Time! (Justice For Bernardes!)

Post by gallery play on Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:37 pm

yeah, that's what i mean. It's no coincidence Foggy lost every game after that outburst. Nadal somehow always takes advantage of it.

@Nitb: of course i agree Nadal must put in his place, the more the better but that was not my point.

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Re: Fognini-Nadal : Stop Taking So Much Time! (Justice For Bernardes!)

Post by ... on Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:24 pm

GP&Tenez,

you are both cut from the same cloth.

Yes, I know Federer and Fognini  have more fragile game (though in Fognini's case it's more his mind that's fragile).

Yes, I too have lost it and lost because I let gamesmanship upset me....but only once!

I showed my teeth a few times and people don't mess with me any more.

They stopped looking over the net and doing their silly tricks...because I embarrass them straight away by telling them what they are doing.

Or let them have one  point but not moving at all.

Then they go and cry at the bar afterwards (true,  happened twice!).

People are nasty and they will try anything in order to win...even in amateur club tennis!

So...back to Roger.

My  point had nothing to do whether Federer was going to lose a match because he was upset like Fognini...

He lost 20 plus matches to Nadal and he DID NOT DO ANYTHING....that was my point!

He went down meekly, being prideful in his skill...it was below him to soil his code of conduct...well, he is answerable.

He may have not been aware of the consequences in 2005...that's quite possible, but I hope to one day hear or read that at least he has that regret.
Regret that said and did nothing.

I know there are plenty of people who put up and shut up, and that can be admirable up to a certain point.

And here is the crux of the matter, we all have a different idea of that point.

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Re: Fognini-Nadal : Stop Taking So Much Time! (Justice For Bernardes!)

Post by gallery play on Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:31 am

nitb wrote:And here is the crux of the matter, we all have a different idea of that point.
I don't think so.
I know i would have said something too but it's not about me. The facts are everytime Nadal is involved in an incident like this, he wins. So a proffessional player should think twice before he let it all out. 
Just being pragmatic!

Sure, if every player, every match would complain about Nadal slow play, then Nadal will bow in no time.

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Re: Fognini-Nadal : Stop Taking So Much Time! (Justice For Bernardes!)

Post by ... on Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:02 am

gallery play wrote:
nitb wrote:And here is the crux of the matter, we all have a different idea of that point.
I don't think so.
I know i would have said something too but it's not about me. The facts are everytime Nadal is involved in an incident like this, he wins. So a proffessional player should think twice before he let it all out. 
Just being pragmatic!

Sure, if every player, every match would complain about Nadal slow play, then Nadal will bow in no time.
he wins regardless!

And he wins because he takes time between the points...no oxygen-no long rallies-no wins for Nadal.


That's why Bernardes is not umpiring his matches any more.

The point is, Federer could have said something AFTER matches, in press conferences...as I already said - where there is will there is a way...but with Federer I've always had that feeling that he was never going to say anything...even worse -  he said nice things about Nadal...even last year when he won RG 9th time he said he was very happy for "Rafa" to win it 9 times...no love lost between Nole and nadal on the other hand from day one, mainly as Nole was "stupid" enough to say what he thought about him. IN PUBLIC.

Fed had no problem having a go at Nole and more than once..., and fair enough - but why then silent when it comes to  Nadal?

For me, Federer is partly responsible for the rise of Nadal.

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Re: Fognini-Nadal : Stop Taking So Much Time! (Justice For Bernardes!)

Post by Autumnleaf on Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:06 am

I saw the incident on TV, very disappointing umpiring at Hamburg ATP. Nadal deserved several warnings during the tournament, but umpires did nothing. Maybe tournament officials were afraid that their investment would be a failure. It was a step back imho, probably because Nadal was their main (only) star and they wanted to protect him, no matter what. It's incredibly unfair towards opponents and Fognini had all the chances to win the tournament and blew it.

Agree with NITB that Fed should have said something earlier. He's one of the most powerful guys in ATP. However the awareness that the time wasting is a problem for anybody else than the viewers who have to put up with Nadal's antiques, even now is pretty weak. And of course he was/ is far from the only one who abuses the continuous play rule, just the most consistent abuser. So it might have appeared a bit disingenious to single him out when there were guys like Del Potro who were (almost) just as bad. So many might not say anything, because they also like to take their time.

Back then awareness to the problem among the public was even weaker, the majority didn't even see a problem. So what, if Nadal took a few seconds more? It's understandable after a long rally, right? After all the opponent also gets time to catch a breath. That's also how Nadal himself argued his case. (And he pointed out that he is not the only one!) This conveniently ignores the fact that it's the serving time abuser who decides just how much time he needs because the receiver has to play to his pace.

After that AO 12 final people were more alert that there might be a problem, hence umpires were asked to enforce the rule more. In 2012 even Fed started to complain about Nadal grunting, time wasting and coaching, now everybody does it, but it doesn't really help, because it's still at the umpires discretion and some enforce the rule while others don't and this is rightly seen as arbitrary.

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Re: Fognini-Nadal : Stop Taking So Much Time! (Justice For Bernardes!)

Post by gallery play on Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:55 am

nitb wrote:Fed had no problem having a go at Nole and more than once..., and fair enough - but why then silent when it comes to  Nadal?

For me, Federer is partly responsible for the rise of Nadal.

You're so militant nitb Winking

Interesting view. I think Federer never was in awe of Djoko like he was of Nadal. Maybe it was a case of "keep your friend close but your enemies closer".

Actually, Federer did critizise Nadal quite often in the past. But not on court, that's true. But how would it have made Federer look, making a fuss everytime he got a beating? Rather foolish imo.

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Re: Fognini-Nadal : Stop Taking So Much Time! (Justice For Bernardes!)

Post by ... on Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:17 am

Militant...no probs, I'll be Putin of tennis! Winking

I actually used to ignore and put up with so much, but have realised that's wrong (better late than never! Blush)

We are  being conditioned to just nod and let things by...and look what mess it's got the world into!

Same with tennis.

The more media are trying to suffocate it, the more it's important to tell the truth.

Otherwise it eats you out.

Had Fed been "foolish" in the beginning and nipped Nadal's rule bending in the bud - his tennis life would've been so much better!

But I fear Fed's Swiss "properness" may have got in the way there...

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Re: Fognini-Nadal : Stop Taking So Much Time! (Justice For Bernardes!)

Post by gallery play on Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:40 pm

Autumnleaf wrote:

After that AO 12 final people were more alert that there might be a problem, hence umpires were asked to enforce the rule more. In 2012 even Fed started to complain about Nadal grunting, time wasting and coaching, now everybody does it, but it doesn't really help, because it's still at the umpires discretion and some enforce the rule while others don't and this is rightly seen as arbitrary.

After NAdal got boo'd during the AO final (even the polite Aussies thought he went to far) he did felt the pressure of the public opinion for a while. His popularity is diminishing so it will get harder and harder for him to insist to play by his terms. Let's not forget, it was only a 500 he won. Let's see how he, the refs and audience will react during the US swing. Although with the lack of US tennis stars it could very well be the Americans (spectators and organizers) are willing to support Nadal.

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Re: Fognini-Nadal : Stop Taking So Much Time! (Justice For Bernardes!)

Post by ... on Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:04 pm

Unfortunately, I am not convinced Nadal's popularity is waning.
He's just got the no Bernardes/easy draw package in Hamburg (and probably in Washington as well, didn't even bother checking) ...and not a word reported about the incident with Fognini anywhere.
Usually tennis.com picks it up from here, but they went quiet this time, not a good sign.

ATP & sponsors are desperate to prop Nadal.

I am pretty sure he'll have easy draws in the US, too.
I am very curious how umpires deal with his time violations, but not holding my breath.

In the meantime, I am afraid we are left with Fognini's and Browns of this world to be getting their hands dirty...

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Re: Fognini-Nadal : Stop Taking So Much Time! (Justice For Bernardes!)

Post by Autumnleaf on Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:46 pm

gallery play wrote:After NAdal got boo'd during the AO final (even the polite Aussies thought he went to far) he did felt the pressure of the public opinion for a while. His popularity is diminishing so it will get harder and harder for him to insist to play by his terms. Let's not forget, it was only a 500 he won. Let's see how he, the refs and audience will react during the US swing. Although with the lack of US tennis stars it could very well be the Americans (spectators and organizers) are willing to support Nadal.
Nadal got booed in the 2014 final, but I don't remember anything about the "exceptional, greatest of all time AO final gladiator fight" in 2012. Popularity of the game in the USA seems to be very limited, probably due to good Americans lacking, so I can imagine they will try to boost the few popular stars they still got. Montreal advertised with Rafa, Milos, Roger, until they had to change to Novak, Milos, Rafael. Laugh  That US Open final last year was probably their worst nightmare and it was a dull affair, can't imagine it won the sport new US fans. At least they have Serena, so they're good on the WTA side.

Nadal's popularity is indeed waning overall, can you imagine that Djokovic overtook him in marketability? That may be due to bonus payments for slam wins/ No. 1 though + Djokovic played the IPTL and they surely shelled out a few bucks. Nadal has to get his mojo back quickly if he wants to keep his standing. Now he notices that he isn't Fed in terms of popularity, without great success to back him, he is further distanced; his game doesn't offer enough on its own and even some of his fans admitted that they don't enjoy to watch him anymore as much as before, because he lacks now what they once loved - the intensity and explosivity.

Re Washington: I wasn't aware he was playing there?

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Re: Fognini-Nadal : Stop Taking So Much Time! (Justice For Bernardes!)

Post by ... on Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:37 pm

You're eight, AL, Nadal isn't playing in Washington.
I've no idea why I thought he did...he's become my Boogeyman - I can see him everywhere! Laugh

As for Nole's popularity and overtaking Nadal, I suppose masses always support winners.

Federer of course is different as his talent has made him an instant classic/living legend already!

I also noticed Nole's PR team is marketing him to younger generations, promoting the image of a cool family man with a fashionable wife, little child and two cute dogs on social media, so he lost his authentic feisty rebel appeal he had for me, although I am aware all this new PR facade is just that...same as Nadal's  "humble bull" rubbish or peRFect Roger thing.

But that's just sign of times, top professional athletes are able to make crazy money now and happy to act whatever image PR teams tell them to.

That side of tennis really turns me off.

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Re: Fognini-Nadal : Stop Taking So Much Time! (Justice For Bernardes!)

Post by Autumnleaf on Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:38 am

French media was writing about the incident:

http://www.lequipe.fr/Tennis/Actualites/Embrouille-nadal-fognini-en-finale-du-tournoi-de-hambourg/578685

They also have a video, unfortunately I cannot understand a word. Fognini is loud and really angry, but he talks Spanish. It seems gone by are the times when Fognini and Nadal were "friends".

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Re: Fognini-Nadal : Stop Taking So Much Time! (Justice For Bernardes!)

Post by Tenez on Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:19 pm

Yes...Fog is complaining about Nadal talking too much to Toni. "it's the same thing everytime. they talk to each others during serve and nothing is done about it....time after time, nothing is done about it. "

Whereas Nadal seems to say nothing about it...he mumbles something about the locker room as "don't worry we will be ok once we talk in the locker room (fog and him)".

Really weird.

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