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US open prediction game: Day 5

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US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by luvsports! on Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:47 pm

Kvitova (13) vs Garcia (18) 
Shapovalov (33) vs Edmund (33)
M Zverev (23) vs Isner (10)
Kenin (33) vs Sharapova (33)
Mahut (33) vs Busta (12)
Muguruza (3) vs Rybarikova (31)
Cilic (5) vs Schwartzman (29)
Anderson (28) vs Coric (33)
Krunic (33) vs Goerges (30)
Pouille (16) vs Kukushkin (33) 

LS: Kvit, Shap, Isner, Sharapova, Mahut, Rybarikova, Shortzman, Anderson, Krunic, Pouille

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by Tenez on Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:46 pm

Garcia (18)
Shapovalov (33)
Isner (10)
Sharapova (33)
Busta (12)
Muguruza (3)
Schwartzman (29)
Goerges (30)
Pouille (16)

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:30 pm

Go Shap, Lucas, Schwarzy! diva

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:43 pm

Kvitova (13) 
Shapovalov (33) 
 Isner (10)
Sharapova (33)
Busta (12)
Muguruza (3) 
Schwartzman (29)
Anderson (28)
Goerges (30)
Pouille (16)

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by Tenez on Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:02 pm

Impressive for a 18yo. I woudl not be surprised if he were to win more slams than Federer.


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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:50 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Go Shap, Lucas, Schwarzy! diva
3/3 Bubbly

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:52 pm

Tenez wrote:Impressive for a 18yo. I woudl not be surprised if he were to win more slams than Federer.


Great talent...the BH gives it away...and so exciting to watch.

I love his energy on the court, the bounce in the step, the ease of his game, it's so natural.


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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:28 pm

...and he is a great match player, wins from sets down, and that is quite stg for an 18 yo.

He has the belief just like Ostapenko, and it comes right from their talent.
Both hit/go for corners and lines almost at will.

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by Daniel on Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:41 pm

Tenez wrote:Impressive for a 18yo. I woudl not be surprised if he were to win more slams than Federer.



What?  The statistical chance of another player doing it in the next 50 years is slim.  Let alone the next decent prospect!  Nadal has an outside chance but he's the only one. It's really going to be fun watching the next 30 years with commentators and fans shouting about Fed's record as if it's easily attainable haha.

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:56 pm

How far can Shapalov go?

Pros:

Energy efficient game
Youth

Cons:

Played many matches (qualies)


It's difficult for me to weigh these.
He just seems to be going and getting better.

Like (the lack of) experience doesn't even matter;
he's got his game, his shots and who cares for anything else! surfer

He is one of those youngsters (again just like Ostapenko) who'll just do it!

None of the hype, expectation, hair sylists blah-blah next gen....by the time Zverev sobers up from his journalists' awarded fictional slams, Shap will be doing it in real life!


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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by Daniel on Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:57 pm

I'd say youth is a con.  A huge con.  Most v young players are too inexperienced to win a Slam and how many have done it at Shap's age?

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:01 pm

Daniel wrote:I'd say youth is a con.  A huge con.  Most v young players are too inexperienced to win a Slam and how many have done it at Shap's age?

You always have to be safe and go by the book...
Yes, I know that 2+2=4, but Shap is 4 already!

Look at Ostapenko.

Talent rules, esp if you have fearless youth to back it up. And a champion's mentality.

Shap is special in a serious way.

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by DEC1M7 on Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:09 pm

Can't believe I'm saying this, but have to agree with Tenez here.

Let's go through other younger players:
Thiem: Will be good on clay
Kyrgios: Has the talent but mental headcase so will underperform
Zverev: Big serve with the baseline game of Giles Simon, will probably sneak a few slams but his level will never be that high
Coric: Ferrer at best

Shapovalov is genuinely special. If he doesn't get injury problems and matures in the right way, he will be an all time great. I can see him winning 10+ Slams for sure. Maybe this USO will be too early for him, but in the next few years expect to see him rise up.


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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by DEC1M7 on Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:10 pm

NITB is correct with the Ostapenko comparison.
But what makes Shap an even bigger prospect is that he has a big serve to match his game.

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:11 pm

Actually, my train of thoughts has led me to a other question/comaprison:
ok, it's a bit pointless, but would Tsonga have been better off with a SBH?

Looking at the clip vs Shap, Tsonga has a similar, open, attacking game (good serve, FH, soft hands...) - the only thing missing is the BH which let him down.

Imreckon French school ofmtennis has eradicated SBH.
Players don't have a chance even if they want to play it now.

But we can see it's not impossible to play it even among teenagers.

I think apart from Fed, Stan has brought and revamped its popularity among the masses.

And now, hopefully Shap will carry the torch and keep inspiring.

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by summerblues on Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:30 pm

Fed playing the night session tomorrow Sad

Great to see Shapovalov winning relatively easily again.  That bottom half is wide open; almost everyone there has a fighting chance to make the final.  Shapovalov probably as good as anyone.

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by summerblues on Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:37 pm

noleisthebest wrote:How far can Shapalov go?

Pros:

Energy efficient game
Youth

Cons:

Played many matches (qualies)
An additional important pro:  the bottom half is wide open.

I am not too worried about the matches he played.  At his age, recovery from match to match is pretty good, and his first three matches have all been quite easy.

Regarding Tenez's comment on him winning more slams than Fed:  I say very unlikely.  Not because Shapovalov cannot do it.  He looks truly special, but there is an awful lot of time between now and Shapovalov's slam #20 (or whatever number will be required to pass Fed).  An awful lot can happen - he can get injured, other players will be coming along, and some of them may slow him down.  On balance, the odds have to be quite heavily against him surpassing Fed.  But if anyone from the current generation looks like they could have a chance, it is him.

The only other youngster who has similar amount of raw potential is Kyrgios, and he looks like he will remain a head case forever (plus there are already signs that he may be injury prone).

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by summerblues on Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:39 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Both hit/go for corners and lines almost at will.
I actually like about him just the opposite.  He does not just hit corners at will (though it may sometimes look that way).  Even at 18, he is actually quite mindful about when to attack and when to hold back.

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by Daniel on Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:40 pm

He's not going to reach 19 slams.  Not even close.  Quote me on it. 10 slams isn't what I would consider close, either.  He's going to be a multiple winner, but 19 is far fetched for anyone in the coming years.
As for this tournament, he's been handed a plum of a draw - but experience and the open era says he will fall short this time.  But he does have the game.

Also, I believe Zverev will end up with more slams than Shap.  My opinion.  The height advantage for one.


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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by DEC1M7 on Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:45 pm

Obviously at this stage there's so many unknown factors, so we can't predict exact number of slams.
But for me, unless he gets injured, he will end up as an all time great. Never seen a player like him.

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by summerblues on Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:48 pm

I think we are way too early arguing about whether Shapovalov gets to 20 slams smiley  Some day, someone will do it, but of course when that person is 18 the odds of it happening will look slim.  Whether that person ends up being Shapovalov or someone else can wai for conversations some years from now.

I just hope it is not going to be Rafa Yikes

But whether Shapovalov wins 25 slams, or zero, in the meantime I will be enjoying his game.  This is the first time since Federer (or maybe briefly Dimi) when I was really rooting for someone new.

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by summerblues on Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:51 pm

DECIMA wrote:Never seen a player like him.
Amazing, is he not?  Do you like his game, or do you just recognize that he has potential to be great?  His style is quite unlike Nadal's.

But do not say you have never seen a player like him.  As fantastic as he is, even he is not quite as watchable and smooth looking as Fed.

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by Daniel on Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:52 pm

Actually looking at his draw...  the easiest it could be... given his form he really could win this slam.  But again - actually doing it at his age is another matter.

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by summerblues on Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:42 am

I just remembered this.  This was from mid-July, well before Montreal.  I am impressed with myself Winking:

summerblues wrote:Would love to see USO SF with Fed, Kyrgios, Dimitrov and maybe Zverev (or perhaps even Shapovalov - dare we dream?).

Out of those five, only Fed and Shapovalov are still around and, based on their performances, only Shapovalov is looking like a realistic SF guess.

Who would have thought...?

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by DEC1M7 on Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:50 am

summerblues wrote:
Out of those five, only Fed and Shapovalov are still around and, based on their performances, only Shapovalov is looking like a realistic SF guess.

Who would have thought...?
Look who is jinxing now!

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by DEC1M7 on Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:00 am

summerblues wrote:
DECIMA wrote:Never seen a player like him.
Amazing, is he not?  Do you like his game, or do you just recognize that he has potential to be great?  His style is quite unlike Nadal's.

But do not say you have never seen a player like him.  As fantastic as he is, even he is not quite as watchable and smooth looking as Fed.
He's fun to watch, and whenever I've watched him so far I think wow, he's this good now, imagine if he improves a bit. Shockingly good potential.
As for being a fan in future, well his serve is a bit better than what Id ideally like, but he's not a tree like Isner, and his volleying isn't great so he won't be a S&Ver which is good news.

Maybe I will be one day, but right now all I want is him out of the USO as long as Nadal is still in the tournament.

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by DEC1M7 on Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:04 am

Daniel wrote:
Also, I believe Zverev will end up with more slams than Shap.  My opinion.  The height advantage for one.
Nah I don't think so, injury aside. Shap has a good serve as well so height advantage lessened.
Simon with a big serve will win a few slams, his game is well suited to technology and courts atm, but he's not special like Shapavalov.

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by summerblues on Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:18 am

DECIMA wrote:
summerblues wrote:
Out of those five, only Fed and Shapovalov are still around and, based on their performances, only Shapovalov is looking like a realistic SF guess.

Who would have thought...?
Look who is jinxing now!
Ha ha!  But I am not really, I am just bigging up Shapovalov in the context of that post - and there is no question Fed has not looked that great so far.

But I am not saying "no way Fed wins this".  In fact I think he still has a good chance as long as he can somehow right the ship.  His draw is pretty good also, after all Winking

DECIMA wrote:and his volleying isn't great
I am not sure I agree.  I think he has good touch and he can become a very good volleyer.  It is more his positining at the net and understanding when exactly to come in that are subpar.  But that will be easily fixable.  It is not like Djokovic who is just garbage there naturally.

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by DEC1M7 on Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:44 am

summerblues wrote:
But I am not saying "no way Fed wins this".  In fact I think he still has a good chance as long as he can somehow right the ship.  His draw is pretty good also, after all Winking
You did say him reaching the SF was not realistic  Laugh
But it's ok, after what I said before FO2013, I'll let you off the hook  Gift

summerblues wrote:
I am not sure I agree.  I think he has good touch and he can become a very good volleyer.  It is more his positining at the net and understanding when exactly to come in that are subpar.  But that will be easily fixable.  It is not like Djokovic who is just garbage there naturally.
So far his volleying hasn't been great, his technique seems a bit suspect too. You're right that he will improve his net play, he's 18, but I'm hoping his overall style still stays as it is, only going to the net to finish points off rather than taking the initiative to S&V or net rush continuously. That sort of game I find boring and would find it impossible to support the player.

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by Daniel on Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:16 am

I don't think Fed's draw is good at all - and evidence of that is already found in two 5 setters.  And two more seasoned pros before possibly Thiem or maybe Del Potro.  It's a crap draw.

@Decima.  Going to the net has more variety than staying on the baseline for every shot.  If a player is good enough to end points by going to the net, why the hell shouldn't they?

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by DEC1M7 on Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:26 am

Daniel wrote:If a player is good enough to end points by going to the net, why the hell shouldn't they?
Ah sorry my post wasn't clear. I was drawing the distinction, I don't mind players going to the net to finish points off, but I find it boring if players are serving and volleying all the time.

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by summerblues on Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:34 am

Isner out, straight sets.  Carreno Busta the highest seed remaining in the bottom half.  We will now find out the answer to the question that has been on the minds of all tennis fans for years:  Does Carreno Busta *really* have what it takes to make a slam final?

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by Tenez on Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:56 am

summerblues wrote:I think we are way too early arguing about whether Shapovalov gets to 20 slams smiley  Some day, someone will do it, but of course when that person is 18 the odds of it happening will look slim.  Whether that person ends up being Shapovalov or someone else can wai for conversations some years from now.

I just hope it is not going to be Rafa Yikes

But whether Shapovalov wins 25 slams, or zero, in the meantime I will be enjoying his game.  This is the first time since Federer (or maybe briefly Dimi) when I was really rooting for someone new.
Of course it is very early. But unless there is a dramatic change in technology/conds(always very possible though), 20 slams should remain a possibility for players who are H&S above the rest. It was something real for the Lavers and Panchos...except that they didn't play all the slams then.  And Federer could have won 30 slams had he not been training with an 85inch racquet and nat gut all his youth till he was 22yo, then 90inch till 33!!!

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:38 am

Tenez wrote:
summerblues wrote:I think we are way too early arguing about whether Shapovalov gets to 20 slams smiley  Some day, someone will do it, but of course when that person is 18 the odds of it happening will look slim.  Whether that person ends up being Shapovalov or someone else can wai for conversations some years from now.

I just hope it is not going to be Rafa Yikes

But whether Shapovalov wins 25 slams, or zero, in the meantime I will be enjoying his game.  This is the first time since Federer (or maybe briefly Dimi) when I was really rooting for someone new.
Of course it is very early. But unless there is a dramatic change in technology/conds(always very possible though), 20 slams should remain a possibility for players who are H&S above the rest. It was something real for the Lavers and Panchos...except that they didn't play all the slams then.  And Federer could have won 30 slams had he not been training with an 85inch racquet and nat gut all his youth till he was 22yo, then 90inch till 33!!!
Yes!

The T&T combination: talent plus technology.


Through history - Laver-Fed-(and now hopefully)Shap.

Not sure of Mac has his place in there as he too played with small nat gut head like Laver.

So, exciting to see what a proper talent can do with new technology.

The way Fed combined old era guile, plus his elegance, to me, peaked in AO.
I was hoping to see him soar higher in Wimbledon, but it didn't happen (freshness was gone or maybe too much adrenaline for him)

And now Shap! With a 100" racquet right out of nappies!
Already controlling the length and angles at 18 and making them look so easy.

Very exciting.

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by Tenez on Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:50 am

noleisthebest wrote:...
The way Fed combined old era guile, plus his elegance, to me, peaked in AO.
I was hoping to see him soar higher in Wimbledon, but it didn't happen (freshness was gone or maybe too much adrenaline for him)
That TB versus Raonic in that 3 rd set was as good as anything.

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:37 am

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:...
The way Fed combined old era guile, plus his elegance, to me, peaked in AO.
I was hoping to see him soar higher in Wimbledon, but it didn't happen (freshness was gone or maybe too much adrenaline for him)
That TB versus Raonic in that 3 rd set was as good as anything.
Yes, I remembered it now. he got into 6th gear within 10m.


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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:05 pm

Tenez wrote:Impressive for a 18yo. I woudl not be surprised if he were to win more slams than Federer.

Too early to call anything. You had said great things about Rublev too, though he is still only 19, he hasn't exactly progressed though this slam could be his break through. 

And what about the other young guy Heon Chung? He too was elevated to be the next big thing. Even Kokinakis appeared quite good some time back, even now not too bad.

Its all too difficult to call. The last guy I thought would win multiple slams and be #1 was Delpo when he as 21yo won USopen 2009. But he too fell off the cliff.

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:17 pm

Until Federer and Nadal retire ( especially Federer ) , the young guys have too much work to be done to win big.

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:41 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Tenez wrote:Impressive for a 18yo. I woudl not be surprised if he were to win more slams than Federer.
Too early to call anything. You had said great things about Rublev too, though he is still only 19, he hasn't exactly progressed though this slam could be his break through. 
And what about the other young guy Heon Chung? He too was elevated to be the next big thing. Even Kokinakis appeared quite good some time back, even now not too bad.
Its all too difficult to call. The last guy I thought would win multiple slams and be #1 was Delpo when he as 21yo won USopen 2009. But he too fell off the cliff.

I don't remember pronouncing anyone a multislam winner, just can't help being excited when I see a great talent.
And of them all, Shap stands out.

It's not about always being right.

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by summerblues on Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:50 pm

Well, Tenez was pronouncing Raonic to be the next big thing too Yikes. So, clearly there is a bit of hyperbole in his predictions. But that is ok, makes for lively discussion.

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by Tenez on Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:13 pm

Rao is constantly injured
.. And I never said he was going to be the next big thing. Just that he was the most promising youngster as he was the highest ranked. He did better than your Dimi at the same age for sure.

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by Tenez on Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:18 pm

Rota I did not say he was going to win 20plus slams.... Just that it would not surprise me if he did.
Rublev is not badly ranked for his age.... And he was only 17 when we noticed him.

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by summerblues on Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:29 am

Tenez wrote:Just that he was the most promising youngster as he was the highest ranked.
Is this how you remember it? Winking

And what do my Dimitrov expectations have to do with anything?  Sadly, they were miserable Sad.  But just because my Dimitrov predictions were rubbish does not mean your Shapovalov predictions become good.

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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

Post by Tenez on Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:10 am

summerblues wrote:
Tenez wrote:Just that he was the most promising youngster as he was the highest ranked.
Is this how you remember it? Winking

And what do my Dimitrov expectations have to do with anything?  Sadly, they were miserable Sad.  But just because my Dimitrov predictions were rubbish does not mean your Shapovalov predictions become good.
I never was a fan of Raonic's game. That's for sure. Just that he had the potential. But like many of those promising players he keeps injuring himself.
This is why I always say "bar injuries" when I refer to youngsters or even for Nishi.


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Re: US open prediction game: Day 5

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