ATP 250/500 2015 (Vienna/Stockholm/Moscow)

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:well wasn't to be again. 5/3 up in TB...and lost 4 points in a row. I felt his loss v Kevin Andersson in USO was a bit similar. Not winning the big points.

That's a shame...

Still, not bad for a 21 yo SBH-er.
He'll be very good in 2-3 years.

I think he is going to progress much quicker.,,,,bar injury. But his problem on key points will always be there......like Federer's and all other SHBH. That's what I tried to explain on v2....but clearly, they did not want to see it.

I hope so, though his fitness will be a problem in bigger tournaments.

It's good he is winning smaller ones already but top 10 will grind him mercilessly.

Let's see how Raonic handles his nerves in the TB.
Gutty is a tough cookie.

And Gutty's FH lets him down on a risky shot early in the TB, and that's enough for Raonic to ease into final.

Match of the Day:

Chardy-Zverev (live now)

Pouille-Mannarino

Zverev 6:3 2:0 up!

That's the 17 yo one...

One set all.

Chardy wins 2:1.
Order restored.

Chung dismissed his opponent 60 61 in that first round.
Pouille losing badly 3 and 0 to Mannarino.
Zverev did not last long.

Tenez wrote:Chung dismissed his opponent 60 61 in that first round.
Pouille losing badly 3 and 0 to Mannarino.
Zverev did not last long.

Good for Chung!
Couldn't find the stream for Pouille-Mannarino, but not surprised, Manna is a shark of a player!
Zverev, I only saw a few games at the end of second set...he couldn't get his first serve in, not sure why.

I had to watch on the tiny bet365 screen, he looked like he ran out if gas, Chardy was relaxed played his game. Superior serve and FH did the job.

I can only assume Zverev ground him in the first set, he plays very much like Murray, but uses Djokovic ball-striking technique, passive grinding with deep shots.

Match of the Day:

Ferrer-Stepanek

Step has announced retirement from dating tennis players.
At 36 (turning 37 in a few weeks), he's not that far from retiring from tennis altogether.
Enjoy him whole you can, they don't seem to make 'em like this any more!



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FYI9-Tj6II8

berdych is playing well. ...full of confidence knowing his compatriot hasn't any.

Great....1D baseline rallies.

Vese has no precision on his serve.

Wow...what a point at 6 all in that TB. Cilic just about able to maintain the fast tempo imposed by Chung....yet Chung double fault to give teh first set away.

Chung is going to be a nightmare for Djoko, Nadal and Murray. He is scarily impressive for 19! And I don't mean in 3 years time....I mean in the next 6 months.

I still fancy chung to win this match.

well maybe not....he is tiring quick.

I'm not sure he hits big enough to do that.

he is actually known for his big hitting...and already he is very close Cilic's pace.....and Cilic is known to be a big hitter.

What he clearly lacks for now is stamina.

I wouldn't say he is a big hitter. He hits a hard, flat ball, quite early. His movement is great.

luvsports! wrote:I wouldn't say he is a big hitter. He hits a hard, flat ball, quite early. His movement is great.

So what do you call a big hitter?

What I like as well is that he has good hands, great mouvement coordination.

Extremely impressive.

Stan. Berd. Delpo. Soderling.

ok (though Stan is not one of them, imo)...they have big swings and bludgeon the ball....but to me those players are not really causing Djoko cause their mouvement is on average poorer.

Guys like Stan, Nishi, Chung have pace from both wings (not as hard as the ones above but hard enough) and find better angles. So they impose very fast rhythm to those retrievers, like Davydenko could do for instance v Nadal.

Chung is an amazing player for 19, he really impressed me much more than anybody else thus far with Rublev. Rublev is harder to judge as he is still very young.

Tenez wrote:What I like as well is that he has good hands, great mouvement coordination.

Extremely impressive.

Sounds good!
I like his movement and FH. And calm mind, not a nutcase like Kyrgios.

Just saw the score...it must've been a really close match.
What let Chung down?
Inexperience?
Fitness?

fitness and nerves....but not too bad. Cilic really played well.

Tenez wrote:berdych is playing well. ...full of confidence knowing his compatriot hasn't any.

Great....1D baseline rallies.

Vese has no precision on his serve.

Vese looks like good raw material that needs a lot of work an polish.

In theory, could be better than Cilic.

Problems is some younger better players are on their way.

Match of the Day:

Kyrgios-F.Lopez

Beijing/Tokyo also starting today.

Djordje Djokovic officially playing his first ATP singles match.That's the youngest brother (20).
Bolleli just thrashed him 6:0 in the first set.

Tenez wrote:Problems is some younger better players are on their way.

I have a feeling we are going to have a good wave of talent coming in the next few years.

Because it's so hard to make any indents with physicality for young players, it will have to be talent.

In our club, 15 year old won Men's title, he beat one of the younger coaches.
I didn't see the match, but I saw them play recently...was amazed with power of his clean ball-striking, whereas the coach was a classic basher, but since he was a clean basher the difference was striking.
I've been watching him over the years - he is a real pleasure, loves to play and toy with the ball. So good!

Already 6 ft 2-3! (Both tall parents, though. )

Kyrgios "normalised" his hair.
His mum is Malaysian so this is his home kind of tournament, too,
Still muttering while playing, he's got to stop it!

All that power and easy serve and still playing pure baseline tennis...

Looks like another TB coming.
Feli won the first one.

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:Problems is some younger better players are on their way.

I have a feeling we are going to have a good wave of talent coming in the next few years.

Because it's so hard to make any indents with physicality for young players, it will have to be talent.

In our club, 15 year old won Men's title, he beat one of the younger coaches.
I didn't see the match, but I saw them play recently...was amazed with power of his clean ball-striking, whereas the coach was a classic basher, but since he was a clean basher the difference was striking.
I've been watching him over the years - he is a real pleasure, loves to play and toy with the ball. So good!

Already 6 ft 2-3! (Both tall parents, though. )

Yes there are some ver skilled players out there...always been the case. last year we played versus a former pro Simon something who was probably 42 a bit chubby. His serve volleying was amazing. Without hitting the ball hard he had 2 seconds to spare on every shot. So placing the ball exactly where he wanted...which was exactly where we had not thought about or were not.

That's when you are reminded of your limitations.

Tenez wrote:
Yes there are some ver skilled players out there...always been the case. last year we played versus a former pro Simon something who was probably 42 a bit chubby. His serve volleying was amazing. Without hitting the ball hard he had 2 seconds to spare on every shot. So placing the ball exactly where he wanted...which was exactly where we had not thought about or were not.

That's when you are reminded of your limitations.

Yes...
I am always amazed to see that type of players, the sheer hand to eye coordination...they are almost never athletic, but the magic in those hands!

Feli Deli wins in two tie-breaks. Simply more game and guile than Kyrgios.

And courage.

noleisthebest wrote:Feli Deli wins in two tie-breaks. Simply more game and guile than Kyrgios.

And courage.

Another of those weird results for FK....a young genius just 3 years away from his peak beaten by a journey man nearly 10 years past his peak.

Many good players taking part in this 250 week.

Rubi's got a WC in Moscow but will have a tough job against Kuku!

Stan's simplicity and honesty are so endearing:  

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“There is no comparison possible for me. Again, completely two different trophy(s). There is not one better than the other, it's just different competition. Davis Cup was always a dream for me. Playing for the team, playing for Switzerland, always been so important, always gave so much for that. So it was really a dream come true. Grand Slam, I never dream about it. So for me I watch so many final, I never expect to be there.

It was a different feeling. You're alone on the court. You celebrate with a different team also. So both are just amazing in tennis."
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Match of the Day:

Chardy-Kokkinakis
Rublv-Kukushkin


I have just realised Vienna had been upgraded to a 500 event.
Maybe time for Thiem, the homeboy to shine and grab a few points!

noleisthebest wrote:
I have just realised Vienna had been upgraded to a 500 event.

Yep...and Valence was downgraded from 500 to 250.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:Feli Deli wins in two tie-breaks. Simply more game and guile than Kyrgios.

And courage.

Another of those weird results for FK....a young genius just 3 years away from his peak beaten by a journey man nearly 10 years past his peak.

Another example of how you take an anomaly among a sea of evidence as a rule.  Who is going to have won more when the careers end?  If Kyrgios doesn't self destruct, he will.  Krygios is a better player and is likely to win multiple slams in the coming years.

Kyrgios will be passing QF of Slams, unlike Feli.

If you want to play the pick-and-choose game, there are a ton for early Federer, as well.  Like Tim Henman who used to kick his arse in the early days.

a sea of evidence? 6 out of the top 10 players are over 30 FK. Time you start accepting the evidence.

Rubi lost
Kuku is a tricky, light-footed grinder.

Not surprised.....Kuki is very good. ..but not better than Chung!

In fact, mist youngsters lost yesterday: Thiem, Kokki, Coric...only Zverev ground through in three sets.

Match of the Day:

Isner-Gulbis
&Tsonga-Haas

Can't believe Gulbis and Haas are still going. For different reasons.

Earnie is a classic example of a player who has fallen behind because he refused to become superfit.
Safin was similar so he retired, but Earnie is too young and still trying...

noleisthebest wrote:In fact, mist youngsters lost yesterday: Thiem, Kokki, Coric...only Zverev ground through in three sets.

12 years ago, a youngster having learnt tennis with those new strings had a huge advantage (Hewitt, Safin, Nalby, Coria,...) versus the old generation.

Nowadays there is no help! And the know how of a 20 or 24 yo can hardly compete with someone who has 5 more years of experience. 5 years out of 20 years is huge. They will learn so much in the next coming 5 years. You will see what the top ranking look like then....extremely different!

Not sure fitness is an issue for Gulbis.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:In fact, mist youngsters lost yesterday: Thiem, Kokki, Coric...only Zverev ground through in three sets.

12 years ago, a youngster having learnt tennis with those new strings had a huge advantage (Hewitt, Safin, Nalby, Coria,...) versus the old generation.

Nowadays there is no help! And the know how of a 20 or 24 yo can hardly compete with someone who has 5 more years of experience. 5 years out of 20 years is huge. They will learn so much in the next coming 5 years. You will see what the top ranking look like then....extremely different!

I will be interesting.

But will tennis survive in the sea of superfit players? Even Zverev ground out Ymer yesterday. Good thing, there are some properly talented young players.

But even they...are having to submit talent to modern requirements: I saw a bit of Thiem-JJ yesterday, Thiem plays too far behind...

luvsports! wrote:Not sure fitness is an issue for Gulbis.

Earnie hates running!

noleisthebest wrote:... I saw a bit of Thiem-JJ yesterday, Thiem plays too far behind...

JJ can hit hard and this is the typical case where being confident, having a better timing (in a year or 2) will make a huge difference.

The way Federer retruned Pete in SW19 was quite exceptional in retrospect. Hewitt did it too.....but with those new strings, big frame and 2 hands...fed has nat gut, 85inch racquet and SHBH!!!!