Nadal and Kim...

I may have asked you that question but can't remember your response.

I believe you believe Nadal is a clean athlete. My question is has it crossed your mind he could actually be using PED? What makes you believe he doesn't? His smile, good nature, "genuine" answers when asked?

And how would you react if you learnt, through breaking news for instance, that he was caught doping in 2014?
I ve had a few LA fans contacting me after the LA scandal to acknowledge that I was right ( I had had many argumentative discussions in my club or other friends telling them what I thought about LA before it all came out).

Just curious.

It's possible that he is using PEDs, and I certainly can't prove otherwise. Same for most tennis players, or athletes.

I don't think we should assume he's using PEDs either for a number of reasons: a) paucity of actual evidence, b) I simply don't think PEDs are needed to get the fitness level you have to reach at the top level of tennis, we were having this discussion on v2 just now, the fitness levels of triathlon athletes probably take as much fitness if not more than tennis.

If he had been caught doping in 2014, I would not have been happy obviously.

Kim Jong-Un wrote:It's possible that he is using PEDs, and I certainly can't prove otherwise. Same for most tennis players, or athletes.

I don't think we should assume he's using PEDs either for a number of reasons: a) paucity of actual evidence, b) I simply don't think PEDs are needed to get the fitness level you have to reach at the top level of tennis, we were having this discussion on v2 just now, the fitness levels of triathlon athletes probably take as much fitness if not more than tennis.

If he had been caught doping in 2014, I would not have been happy obviously.

Not in a million years....the two can't even be compared.

Fitness required for tennis is complex and there is a lot more to it than basic muscle endurance. A few minutes of long rallying can leave you legless for some time.

Nadal has always been so obvious, only blind fans can claim he is clean.

But you know that anyway...just too proud to admit.

Kim Jong-Un wrote:It's possible that he is using PEDs, and I certainly can't prove otherwise. Same for most tennis players, or athletes.

I don't think we should assume he's using PEDs either for a number of reasons: a) paucity of actual evidence, b) I simply don't think PEDs are needed to get the fitness level you have to reach at the top level of tennis, we were having this discussion on v2 just now, the fitness levels of triathlon athletes probably take as much fitness if not more than tennis.

If he had been caught doping in 2014, I would not have been happy obviously.

I am not saying we should. I just wanted to know what woudl be your reaction. Would you:

1 - Still support him.
2 - Find him excuses
3 - hate him
4 - Stop watching tennis altogether

reg the comparison with triathlon. All sports are extremely tough. They even dope for table tennis and having played table tennis I was completely nackered after an hour match. The 100m racers have nothing left after 9s! It all depends how much one puts into it.

tennis however is one sport with lots of injuries/niggles and cramping arrives very regularly towards the end of a match. What makes it particularly difficult in my view is the fact that it is made of very fast sprints in all directions and yet it can last up to 5 hours. Even if they stop every other game, it's really tough on the body/joints.

Tenez wrote:
I am not saying we should. I just wanted to know what woudl be your reaction. Would you:

1 - Still support him.
2 - Find him excuses
3 - hate him
4 - Stop watching tennis altogethers.

This is where the topic gets really interesting.

Now if you allow the conspirationlist in me to get comfortable, I am quite keen to observe things hidden behind the PR scene.
We don't get to know almost anything as players are sworn to secrecy by their contracts, but now and then things come out inadvertently, I am thinking AO post-match interviews in particular.

I think there is a lot of history between Murray and Djokovic starting with Murray's Wimbledon final win over him in 2013, followed by his 2nd slam in USO.

Troicki's harsh punishment (compared to Cilic's) and all that followed (Djokovic defending him mentioning injustice) gives a good insight into some things.

Murray's open taunting of Djokovic in his post-match AO conference is no coincidence.

It is not only draws that get fixed, or small-time matches for betting sharks.

Tenez wrote:
reg the comparison with triathlon. All sports are extremely tough. They even dope for table tennis and having played table tennis I was completely nackered after an hour match. The 100m racers have nothing left after 9s! It all depends how much one puts into it.

tennis however is one sport with lots of injuries/niggles and cramping arrives very regularly towards the end of a match. What makes it particularly difficult in my view is the fact that it is made of very fast sprints in all directions and yet it can last up to 5 hours. Even if they stop every other game, it's really tough on the body/joints.

They stop every other game in tennis as you said; and as well as that Nadal gets around 25 seconds between each point. My tennis coach did the triathlon and he got very fit in terms of stamina- I doubt he took PEDs.
As for doping in table tennis- really really don't think so. I know that with my style, obviously you haven't watched me play, but with my style in table tennis it basically not even possible to run more than I do. Against the faster servers I stand around 1 metre back to return serve; and I think I probably run 4 metres for every rally on average- if not much more for the longer rallies. I am not really athletic to any professional level, totally amateur. When playing high level matches I am drenched in sweat around 30 minutes in. But even then, I improve as I keep playing, I've played for 2 hours straight before and I simply get better as the match goes on. I get fatigued, but table tennis is not a sport which needs energy reserves. I highly doubt professionals, who do not run around that much (I do watch TT on tele when I can) need to artificially boost their stamina.

Tenez wrote:I am not saying we should. I just wanted to know what woudl be your reaction. Would you:

1 - Still support him.
2 - Find him excuses
3 - hate him
4 - Stop watching tennis altogether

I am logical and objective in my analysis, so we can rule out number 2. Let me think about it some more.

There are many cases of doping in table tennis, more than in tennis I believe, just google it. But having played at a pretty good level I am not surprised. It's not the running that's exhausting, it's the very fast mouvements of your whole body right and left, backward/fwd that is very exhausting. A TT player probably hits the ball 3 times when a tennis player hits it once.

Yes, that must be similar to hitting several volleys in a row in tennis. The heart really gets pumping!

Kim Jong-Un wrote:
They stop every other game in tennis as you said; and as well as that Nadal gets around 25 seconds between each point. My tennis coach did the triathlon and he got very fit in terms of stamina- I doubt he took PEDs.

Triathlon is overrated.
All you need for it is solid aerobic base and not much else.

In terms of fitness needed for today's tennis, triathlon is peanuts.

Tenez wrote:There are many cases of doping in table tennis, more than in tennis I believe, just google it. But having played at a pretty good level I am not surprised. It's not the running that's exhausting, it's the very fast mouvements of your whole body right and left, backward/fwd that is very exhausting. A TT player probably hits the ball 3 times when a tennis player hits it once.

You don't need to dope to have the stamina and fitness required in top level of table tennis. Working on your fitness very regularly, careful control of diet etc. is all you need.

Kim Jong-Un wrote:

Tenez wrote:There are many cases of doping in table tennis, more than in tennis I believe, just google it. But having played at a pretty good level I am not surprised. It's not the running that's exhausting, it's the very fast mouvements of your whole body right and left, backward/fwd that is very exhausting. A TT player probably hits the ball 3 times when a tennis player hits it once.

You don't need to dope to have the stamina and fitness required in top level of table tennis. Working on your fitness very regularly, careful control of diet etc. is all you need.

I am afraid this is non-sense. It's not about getting fit! It is about getting fitter than your opponents. So the race is on like most sports and table tennis is an extremely exhausting sport like badmington or squash.

Tenez wrote:

Kim Jong-Un wrote:

Tenez wrote:There are many cases of doping in table tennis, more than in tennis I believe, just google it. But having played at a pretty good level I am not surprised. It's not the running that's exhausting, it's the very fast mouvements of your whole body right and left, backward/fwd that is very exhausting. A TT player probably hits the ball 3 times when a tennis player hits it once.

You don't need to dope to have the stamina and fitness required in top level of table tennis. Working on your fitness very regularly, careful control of diet etc. is all you need.

I am afraid this is non-sense. It's not about getting fit! It is about getting fitter than your opponents. So the race is on like most sports and table tennis is an extremely exhausting sport like badmington or squash.

No but there is a point at which you do not need to get fitter- i.e. a max level where it would make no difference.
I feel, with the advancements in nutrition we have today, you can reach that level without even needing to artificially enhance your body.

I think you are naive then.
People always want to have that edge and drugs give them that. SO many drugs that will help for a vast array of different assets of a game.

Kim Jong-Un wrote:

Tenez wrote:Would you:
...
2 - Find him excuses
...

I am logical and objective in my analysis, so we can rule out number 2.

Hehe.