Wimbledon 2014: MOTD Day 11 Fri 03/07/2014 Gentlemen's Semi-final

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:It would be great to see metres covered stat for this match, just to confirm who the road-runner was in this match.

Agree. They were both RRs!

Yes, but only one gets the stick for it all the time.

Well....for a reason as well. Djoko had still covered one extra mile (10%) more than Dimi over the tournament....before that match.

What a smooth and deadly slice on that approach...SBH tennis at its best, simply brilliant.

The final could be opened!

Connors saying that Federer did not have to do anything special to be 2 sets up. Ridiculus. So many serves come back when they would not come back v most other players.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:It would be great to see metres covered stat for this match, just to confirm who the road-runner was in this match.

Agree. They were both RRs!

Yes, but only one gets the stick for it all the time.

Well....for a reason as well. Djoko had still covered one extra mile (10%) more than Dimi over the tournament....before that match.

He happened to have played better players in the process as well. And he probably spent longer in court than Dimi as a result, hence that stat.
I am not trying to defend the indefensible, just trying to see why everyone so dislikes Djokovic's scrambling and at the same time loves Dimi's.
Easy question but seems tough to answer

Tenez wrote:The final could be opened!

Connors saying that Federer did not have to do anything special to be 2 sets up. Ridiculus. So many serves come back when they would not come back v most other players.

One of the reasons I have my sound turned off. Very annoying as I love to listen to the sound of ball-striking and the atmosphere, but commentating has become unbearable. They all blab and blab and either talk rubbish or say the most obvious things.

Raonic is playing some nice, straightforward tennis on grass, which is quite a feat bearing in mind how cumbersome he is.
It will be interesting to see how he and Dimi develop their rivalry and match-up.

Fed serving for 2014 Wimbledon final...how good does that sound after all the things he went through in 2013...

Ooooh!!!! That forehand for 40:30!!!!

never thought i would see roger make another grand slam final after the season he had last year...
he must be liking his chances now...i think he has a pretty good shot as he has beaten djokovic a couple of times this year

After Nole won, gritted and carved out his place in the final, I let out a roar of relief and madness.
After Fed's sublime glide and mastery over a difficult opponent, I felt the lump in the throat and a bit of misty eyes.

Beautiful.

Veejay wrote:never thought i would see roger make another grand slam final after the season he had last year...
he must be liking his chances now...i think he has a pretty good shot as he has beaten djokovic a couple of times this year

Yes, he is a clear favourite.

Veejay wrote:never thought i would see roger make another grand slam final after the season he had last year...
he must be liking his chances now...i think he has a pretty good shot as he has beaten djokovic a couple of times this year

Yes and remember when you all had burried him because he was "too old".

So as they said on TV....it's another Edberg v Becker Final!

Cool!
Having the sound turned off I obviously didn't hear it...

This is only the second Fed-Nole slam final, isn't that amazing...or maybe not if we remember that incredible 12/12 stat of the two being drawn in the same half

You are right. It should. You can't teach instinct.

noleisthebest wrote:This is only the second Fed-Nole slam final, isn't that amazing...or maybe not if we remember that incredible 12/12 stat of the two being drawn in the same half

And it's 1 all, right? Yes amazing when you think how many Finals Nadal/Fed and Nadal.Djoko played.

Yes, it was that 2007 USO final, 7 set points squandered, Robert de Niro in the box and all that...when Nole was 19 and young players didn't need to be superfit to make it to slam finals...how things have changed!

Needless to say I am so excited about the final. It's not going to be easy to watch it but whoever wins I'll open a bottle of champagne.

As things are, Fed is a clear favourite. This is his turf, his magic land and however much it pains me to utter it as a 7year old NITB, the trophy belongs to Fed.
As long as he wishes to play the game, and may it long continue.

noleisthebest wrote:Yes, it was that 2007 USO final, 7 set points squandered, Robert de Niro in the box and all that...when Nole was 19 and young players didn't need to be superfit to make it to slam finals...how things have changed!

Djoko was certainly not the better player that year as proved all their following encounters at the USO...and certainly Fed was not top form in that AO a couple of months later.

I don't think it's sunk in yet that Roger is in another Wimbledon final. I'm trying not to get too carried away with it either. But my oh my, this is turning out to be a great tournament for him. He'll leave everything out there on Sunday I'm sure. One more match Roger!

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:Yes, it was that 2007 USO final, 7 set points squandered, Robert de Niro in the box and all that...when Nole was 19 and young players didn't need to be superfit to make it to slam finals...how things have changed!

Djoko was  certainly not the better player that year as proved all their following encounters at the USO...and certainly Fed was not top form in that AO a couple of months later.

He was mighty close, though and did beat him somewhere the same year for his first Masters, I think it. Was Miami 2007, I remember he beat world number 3 (Roddick), 2 (Nadal) and 1 (Fed) to win it, he was pretty good for an unfit youngster!

noleisthebest wrote:Needless to say I am so excited about the final. It's not going to be easy to watch it but whoever wins I'll open a bottle of champagne.

As things are, Fed is a clear favourite. This is his turf, his magic land and however much it pains me to utter it as a 7year old NITB, the trophy belongs to Fed.
As long as he wishes to play the game, and may it long continue.

Ooh interesting comment, may I enquire as to why?

Why what?

Why as a 7 year old, would it pain you for Federer to lift the trophy?

Oh I get it now. You've been a fan of Nole for 7 years.

Polly 81 wrote:Why as a 7 year old, would it pain you for Federer to lift the trophy?

You forgot the key "word" 7 year old NITB

Come on, Polly don't act like you don't understand...I'm not buying it. Just be happy you've got someone to root against on Sunday, much easier than not to.

Yes I know, sorry, I was really thick there. See post above yours.
Anyway I won't be rooting against Nole, I will be rooting for Federer.

Concentration was key for Federer today, as he's prone to lapses. Bodes well for the final.

Polly 81 wrote:Yes I know, sorry, I was really thick there. See post above yours.
Anyway I won't be rooting against Nole, I will be rooting for Federer.

I have kept my emotions from Federer for a long time, I loved his tennis but kept the distance as I know myself and how it would've affected me.
I even wrote a poem about him!
But seeing him struggle since 2012 and the world trying to bring him down, retire him, upset me,  awoke my revolt and the dams burst...I just felt protective and disgusted with the envy that surfaced behind thin veneers of his fans, former "legends"...to trample upon such a pearl...
At the same time, Nadal was growing and towering menacingly, amassing trophies, going for Roger's records...flirting with the GOAT title...2013 was an awful year not just for Fed but for tennis, too (maybe they are synonymous).
So, now...I love both Nole and Fed. It's hard to imagine and not that easy when they play.
I felt it worst when I watched them live in O2 last November. I almost wished I hadn't gone. I couldn't be my old NITB self I was at the same place in previous match there the year before (WTF 2012 final), I would find myself engrossed in Fed's instinct and momentum, then feel terrible Nole was losing and like a see-saw the whole match!

So...on Sunday it would be moving and right for Fed to win his 8th Wimbledon and 18th slam. He has been robbed of many.
But I'll say, to a lesser degree, so has Nole with all the maltreatment he has suffered because of Fedal.

Yet, Nole is 27 and Fed will be 33 in a few weeks.
He has played most beautifully of all players this Wimbledon by far.
I just hope the crowd shows a little love for Nole, too. He has had a very tough path to his dream. Tougher than just about all of them.

just realised that this is fed's 9th wimbledon final!!
9!!!!!!!!
thats insane especially when you consider that he has played clean

I just read Dimi's interview, apparently he changed 5-6 pairs of shoes,..that's strange!
Like in that fairy-tale where the king goes nearlybankrupt because his daughter sneaks out secretly and wears out a pair of silk slippers every night dancing.

noleisthebest wrote:Was Miami 2007, I remember he beat world number 3 (Roddick), 2 (Nadal) and 1 (Fed) to win it, he was pretty good for an unfit youngster!

Was it not in Canada?  I seem to remember visiting Canada that week and watching some of the matches on TV there.

noleisthebest wrote:

Polly 81 wrote:Yes I know, sorry, I was really thick there. See post above yours.
Anyway I won't be rooting against Nole, I will be rooting for Federer.

I have kept my emotions from Federer for a long time, I loved his tennis but kept the distance as I know myself and how it would've affected me.
I even wrote a poem about him!
But seeing him struggle since 2012 and the world trying to bring him down, retire him, upset me,  awoke my revolt and the dams burst...I just felt protective and disgusted with the envy that surfaced behind thin veneers of his fans, former "legends"...to trample upon such a pearl...
At the same time, Nadal was growing and towering menacingly, amassing trophies, going for Roger's records...flirting with the GOAT title...2013 was an awful year not just for Fed but for tennis, too (maybe they are synonymous).
So, now...I love both Nole and Fed. It's hard to imagine and not that easy when they play.
I felt it worst when I watched them live in O2 last November. I almost wished I hadn't gone. I couldn't be my old NITB self I was at the same place in previous match there the year before (WTF 2012 final), I would find myself engrossed in Fed's instinct and momentum, then feel terrible Nole was losing and like a see-saw the whole match!

So...on Sunday it would be moving and right for Fed to win his 8th Wimbledon and 18th slam. He has been robbed of many.
But I'll say, to a lesser degree, so has Nole with all the maltreatment he has suffered because of Fedal.

Yet, Nole is 27 and Fed will be 33 in a few weeks.
He has played most beautifully of all players this Wimbledon by far.
I just hope the crowd shows a little love for Nole, too. He has had a very tough path to his dream. Tougher than just about all of them.

   Couldn't agree more. I think the long standing ovation for him at Basel last year sums it up nicely, (how you, I, and many others felt) without the need for words even.

noleisthebest wrote:I am not trying to defend the indefensible, just trying to see why everyone so dislikes Djokovic's scrambling and at the same time loves Dimi's.
Easy question but seems tough to answer

I prefer Grigor mostly because I think his game is more well-rounded.  Put him in the 80s conditions and he could still do well - he has slice, volleys, overhead.  From that perspective he really has fewer weaknesses than Nole, but with today's tennis not testing all facets of the game it does not get to shine through so much.

Everything else being equal, I would also prefer it if he got to play more aggressively.  But in today's conditions it is not easy.  Even Fed is playing more from the baseline than not.  How is Dimi going to succeed without being ready and able to scramble?  He has a good forehand, but not a Federer-good forehand, and even Fed needs to pick his spots wisely.

Also, I would like to make it clear I do not particularly dislike Djokovic.  I am fairly neutral or even somewhat positively inclined towards him.  Part of what may appear as negativity is simply the fact that you are here.  I do not think I am particularly rude but I am argumentative, so I do like to engage posters on topics where we have disagreements.  If we had a Murray fan here instead of you, I would probably come across as more anti-Andy, simply because I would have more chance to have arguments about Andy.  And if we had a super big Grigor fan, I might even come across as less pro-Grigor than I do now.  I am unlikely to come across as anything but pro-Federer though ().

Finally, you pointed out a number of times you do not like what you view as sugarcoating discussions.  Therefore, I am a bit more blunt with you than I normally would be.  But there is no malice towards nor specific dislike of Nole anywhere in there.

summerblues wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:Was Miami 2007, I remember he beat world number 3 (Roddick), 2 (Nadal) and 1 (Fed) to win it, he was pretty good for an unfit youngster!

Was it not in Canada?  I seem to remember visiting Canada that week and watching some of the matches on TV there.

Yes, it was Canada...and the funny thing is that it was Federer who had 3 game points at 40/0 up to take the first set....or the second and failed.....and he lost in 3 if I remember. And funnily enough the same thing happened to Djoko v Fed in that USo 07 final...a few weeks later.

Tenez wrote:

summerblues wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:Was Miami 2007, I remember he beat world number 3 (Roddick), 2 (Nadal) and 1 (Fed) to win it, he was pretty good for an unfit youngster!

Was it not in Canada?  I seem to remember visiting Canada that week and watching some of the matches on TV there.

Yes, it was Canada...and the funny thing is that it was Federer who had 3 game points at 40/0 up to take the first set....or the second and failed.....and he lost in 3 if I remember. And funnily enough the same thing happened to Djoko v Fed in that USo 07 final...a few weeks later.

Yes, it was Montreal!
Those were the days....

I have not seen Fed's match but I am assuming he must have played quite well.  He has been broken once all week.  I suspect that will change on Sunday but he just might have a chance.

This tournament has worked out for him as well as he could have hoped for.  He will only have to play one player from the other big three, and he will have avoided Rafa altogether.  Also, if he got to choose the slam where he would give himself best chance against Nole, it would presumably have to be here.

I wonder if he tanked RG just a little bit.  That performance was so unlike everything else he has been doing this year, and it also happened to be at a place where an early loss might have its benefits.  Also, with Edberg saying before RG even started that it was not going to be a priority this year...

noleisthebest wrote:I am not trying to defend the indefensible, just trying to see why everyone so dislikes Djokovic's scrambling and at the same time loves Dimi's.
Easy question but seems tough to answer

Easy to answer NITB. You answer it yourself actually. Without a DHBH, Nole would have no chance to play the baseline game and go that far in tournaments. Dimi can cause he is more talented.

summerblues wrote:I have not seen Fed's match but I am assuming he must have played quite well.  He has been broken once all week.  I suspect that will change on Sunday but he just might have a chance.

This tournament has worked out for him as well as he could have hoped for.  He will only have to play one player from the other big three, and he will have avoided Rafa altogether.  Also, if he got to choose the slam where he would give himself best chance against Nole, it would presumably have to be here.

I wonder if he tanked RG just a little bit.  That performance was so unlike everything else he has been doing this year, and it also happened to be at a place where an early loss might have its benefits.  Also, with Edberg saying before RG even started that it was not going to be a priority this year...

Do you really think Rafa would have bothered him on grass? Federer just beat the player who beat Nadal. There is a reason why Nadal won that match v Federer in 2008....all stars had to align.....it won't happen again.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:I am not trying to defend the indefensible, just trying to see why everyone so dislikes Djokovic's scrambling and at the same time loves Dimi's.
Easy question but seems tough to answer

Easy to answer NITB. You answer it yourself actually. Without a DHBH, Nole would have no chance to play the baseline game and go that far in tournaments. Dimi can cause he is more talented.

Exactly.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:I am not trying to defend the indefensible, just trying to see why everyone so dislikes Djokovic's scrambling and at the same time loves Dimi's.
Easy question but seems tough to answer

Easy to answer NITB. You answer it yourself actually. Without a DHBH, Nole would have no chance to play the baseline game and go that far in tournaments. Dimi can cause he is more talented.

That is not the answer to my question. The question is not about Nole, but Dimi. I know why you don't like Nole, but I don't know how you can like a SBH scrambler?

And why does he scramble if he is talented?

Tenez wrote:Do you really think Rafa would have bothered him on grass? Federer just beat the player who beat Nadal. There is a reason why Nadal won that match v Federer in 2008....all stars had to align.....it won't happen again.

I am not so sure I agree.  Rafa is a bad match up for Roger everywhere.  He came pretty close to beating Roger in 2007 too, Roger was a bit lucky to come out of that one with a win.

I would not say Roger could not beat Rafa, but it would not have been easy.  And having to play Rafa and Nole back-to-back would have been horrible.

summerblues wrote:

Tenez wrote:Do you really think Rafa would have bothered him on grass? Federer just beat the player who beat Nadal. There is a reason why Nadal won that match v Federer in 2008....all stars had to align.....it won't happen again.

I am not so sure I agree.  Rafa is a bad match up for Roger everywhere.  He came pretty close to beating Roger in 2007 too, Roger was a bit lucky to come out of that one with a win.

I would not say Roger could not beat Rafa, but it would not have been easy.  And having to play Rafa and Nole back-to-back would have been horrible.

I don't think nadal is a bad match up everywhere. He is a tough match up where the conds are slow and when he has time to inject power and spin. When Fed is playing on fast surface Federer has been by far the better player.

The H2H is deceptive cause lots of the encounters were on clay and more so Nadal failed to show up in the many times Federer was fit and ready waiting for him in the final or semi.

And Nadal says it himself, "the first week at Wimby is the toughest, cause that's when it is fast. Nadal would have been dangerous had he gone through Kry..but on proper grass not a chance v Federer.

summerblues wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:I am not trying to defend the indefensible, just trying to see why everyone so dislikes Djokovic's scrambling and at the same time loves Dimi's.
Easy question but seems tough to answer

I prefer Grigor mostly because I think his game is more well-rounded.  Put him in the 80s conditions and he could still do well - he has slice, volleys, overhead.  From that perspective he really has fewer weaknesses than Nole, but with today's tennis not testing all facets of the game it does not get to shine through so much.

Everything else being equal, I would also prefer it if he got to play more aggressively.  But in today's conditions it is not easy.  Even Fed is playing more from the baseline than not.  How is Dimi going to succeed without being ready and able to scramble?  He has a good forehand, but not a Federer-good forehand, and even Fed needs to pick his spots wisely.

Also, I would like to make it clear I do not particularly dislike Djokovic.  I am fairly neutral or even somewhat positively inclined towards him.  Part of what may appear as negativity is simply the fact that you are here.  I do not think I am particularly rude but I am argumentative, so I do like to engage posters on topics where we have disagreements.  If we had a Murray fan here instead of you, I would probably come across as more anti-Andy, simply because I would have more chance to have arguments about Andy.  And if we had a super big Grigor fan, I might even come across as less pro-Grigor than I do now.  I am unlikely to come across as anything but pro-Federer though ().

Finally, you pointed out a number of times you do not like what you view as sugarcoating discussions.  Therefore, I am a bit more blunt with you than I normally would be.  But there is no malice towards nor specific dislike of Nole anywhere in there.

Absolutely!
Life is too short for beating about the bush.
It is not easy to tell the truth, and it is also not always easy to hear it, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

Forums are an interesting but at the same time awkward means of communication. It's been a huge learning experience for me, and it's still an ongoing process.

I absolutely love my NITB life and all the people I have "met" over the years. Mainly those who haven't changed their names.
I have old-fashioned values, and take everyone seriously and with respect, although I probably come across as prickly and too direct to some, but I never intend to upset anyone, which cannot be said for many others who come and go and change their IDs like a pair of socks when they get dirty.
I know internet is full of weirdos and one needs to protect privacy and be very careful, which is why I am particularly happy here, I feel like a bug in a rug!

Now, back to Dimi...I know he's good, but because of that I am upset he plays the way he does. To me, SBH is a special talent and a medium of playing true tennis, it gives you the wings to fly.
So the way Dimi plays his game it's like he is ignoring those wings and chooses to walk and run instead.

As Tenez said, it needs to come from inside and no coach can teach him to fly. I hope finds that something.
He's come all this way with his SBH and it would be a shame not to fulfil the potential and delight it can offer.

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:I am not trying to defend the indefensible, just trying to see why everyone so dislikes Djokovic's scrambling and at the same time loves Dimi's.
Easy question but seems tough to answer

Easy to answer NITB. You answer it yourself actually. Without a DHBH, Nole would have no chance to play the baseline game and go that far in tournaments. Dimi can cause he is more talented.

That is not the answer to my question. The question is not about Nole, but Dimi. I know why you don't like Nole, but I don't know how you can like a SBH scrambler?

And why does he scramble if he is talented?

Cause nowadays there is no way to get through without scrambling on those slow courts. He is not very gracious I give you that but the conds are essentially the reason. The conds and fit players on the other side are simply forcing young player to scrap through. To be able to get one last shot is detrimental.

Kyrgios didn't scramble once. Neither does Raonic.

noleisthebest wrote:Kyrgios didn't scramble once. Neither does Raonic.

 
They would have had they been able to!..scrambling v Nadal was not an option.

Whereas Dimi can now scramble with Djoko.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:Kyrgios didn't scramble once. Neither does Raonic.

They would have had they been able to!

I am glad they are not. Bottom line is, they are able to win without scrambling, mainly because they have a weapon in their serve.
Dimi needs to find/develop a proper weapon asap.
Or find guts to step into the court with his FH.
His FH is technically better than Thiem's, but look at the difference of how they play!

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:Kyrgios didn't scramble once. Neither does Raonic.

They would have had they been able to!

I am glad they are not. Bottom line is, they are able to win without scrambling, mainly because they have a weapon in their serve.
Dimi needs to find/develop a proper weapon asap.
Or find guts to step into the court with his FH.
His FH is technically better than Thiem's, but look at the difference of how they play!

No. They all lost! and on Sunday the best scrapper will win....unless Fed has some magic left.